Hi, Ed.
> I've had a chance to do some further research on this, and it seems
> to me that the bug is definitely in Supnik's emulator. What do you
> all think? Am I onto something? If so, what part of Supnik's code
> is probably to blame?
Interesting... did you use the same binary on both Bob's emulator and Ersatz?
> 3. Peter Turnbull wrote me that factor running on under uv7 on his
> PDP-11/23 runs the test case 'factor 6' without error.
Ah, I meant to mail that to the list. No matter, it got to where it was most
needed, obviously :-)
I'd suggest you recompile factor if you have the source, but add some
debugging. If you can't do that, you could try running it with adb (the
debugger, man 1 adb for details).
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Sat Mar 28 10:50:54 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803280050.LAA05410(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Bug in Bob Supnik's Emulator!
To: pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 11:50:54 +1100 (EST)
Cc: edgee(a)cyberpass.net, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <9803270628.ZM27283(a)indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> from Pete Turnbull at "Mar 27, 98 06:28:52 am"
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In article by Pete Turnbull:
> Hi, Ed.
>
> > I've had a chance to do some further research on this, and it seems
> > to me that the bug is definitely in Supnik's emulator. What do you
> > all think? Am I onto something? If so, what part of Supnik's code
> > is probably to blame?
>
> Interesting... did you use the same binary on both Bob's emulator and Ersatz?
>
> > 3. Peter Turnbull wrote me that factor running on under uv7 on his
> > PDP-11/23 runs the test case 'factor 6' without error.
> I'd suggest you recompile factor if you have the source, but add some
> debugging. If you can't do that, you could try running it with adb (the
> debugger, man 1 adb for details).
I suspect the FP emulation in Bob's Emulator, so it might be worth
watching the floating point values in the program. Bob mailed me during
the week, and I sent him a virgin binary of factor so he could verify that
there is a bug.
Warren
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Sun Mar 29 09:41:33 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803282341.JAA06110(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Digest of PUPS mail available
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 09:41:33 +1000 (EST)
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The PUPS mailing list seems to be getting busier. For those `lurkers' who
want to follow the list, but don't want to be pestered by incoming email
every 10 minutes, I've set up a digest form of the list.
The digest will be sent out every Monday and Thursday, or if the incoming
e-mail exceeds 40K in total.
To get the digest version, and to unsubscribe from the normal list, send
e-mail to majordomo(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au with the commands in the message body:
subscribe pups-digest
unsubscribe pups
You still need to send mail to pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au for it to go to
the PUPS list and to be included in the digest.
Warren
<Well, I've got uncompress working, but I thought having gunzip would
<be good as it gives better compression results.
The question is why? Generally compression is a diminishing returns for
computational effort with 80% for the first 10% effort. I can see having
it if needed to gain access to software and the current platform is the
only one.
For sim to hardware transfers simple works better...
Allison
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Thu Mar 26 07:55:36 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803252155.IAA03217(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Follow-up: oddball versions of Unix
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 08:55:36 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <199803252150.NAA10104(a)rainbow.Corp.Sun.COM> from Chris Drake at "Mar 25, 98 01:50:07 pm"
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In article by Chris Drake:
> >UNIX on a Microprocessor
>
> I did use something called "Mini-Unix" on a PDP-11/10, which was a single-
> address space machine. It worked, sort of, but had some problems - like,
> pipes were implemented as temporary files, so the shell broke things apart
> into individual sequential commands... and printing with lpr generally
> froze the machine up. There may have been later and better versions, though.
> (This was around 76/77, as I recall).
Yep, it's in the archive!
Warren
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>From Robin Birch <robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk> Thu Mar 26 07:56:05 1998
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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 21:56:05 +0000
To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
Cc: PDP Unix Preservation <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
From: Robin Birch <robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: gzip on PDP-11: not so simple
In-Reply-To: <199803252033.HAA03043(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
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In message <199803252033.HAA03043(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>, Warren Toomey
<wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> writes
>In article by Allison J Parent:
>> I find this situation funny as in the 8080/z80 (8 bit data 64kbyte address
>> space) world there is LZH, Crunch, ARK, ARC, LBR... compressors and
>> decompressors. Atleast a handful are written in C.
>>
>> Also PDP11 address space (no I&D) is 32kW... Instructions are always
>> words so code can eat up a fair portion of the 64k bytes.
>
>Well, I've got uncompress working, but I thought having gunzip would
>be good as it gives better compression results.
>
> Warren
I looked at this several years ago and gave up at the save point as
Warren. I looked at compress using 16 bits and hit the same sort of
constructs. After a bit of thinking I believe there may be a way round
it but at the time I didn't know the algorithms used in compress or gzip
so didn't try playing.
The problem is that the compression algorithm needs a 64k space to do
all of its sums in, don't ask me why, if someone could tell us the
algorithm them I would understand a lot better.
These are defined as 64k address spaces which the data page isn't
holding cos they don't fit. If you write a virtual mem system then this
will work. This causes problems in the standalone world obviously but
steve wrote a vm lookalike for 2.11 that uses files, yes a lump of real
mem aka the partition concept with movable windows in RSX would be nice
but we can't have everything, but compress and maybe gip should be able
to be cooked into using such a system for vm. This would be slow but
what are we after?, an all singing all dancing system or something that
would work in the background whilst we get a beer and wait for the
system to install?.
Cheers
Robin
Robin Birch robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk
M1ASU/2E0ARJ Old computers and radios always welcome
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Thu Mar 26 08:07:35 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803252207.JAA03305(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: gzip on PDP-11: not so simple
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 09:07:35 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <0S+aPCA11XG1EwK5(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk> from Robin Birch at "Mar 25, 98 09:56:05 pm"
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In article by Robin Birch:
[ not being able to run gzip on a PDP-11 ]
> This would be slow but
> what are we after?, an all singing all dancing system or something that
> would work in the background whilst we get a beer and wait for the
> system to install?.
You're right I think. At least compress -b12 works, and as you say, a bit
of extra wait isn't going to hurt too much.
Peter Chubb seems interested in fitting gunzip into 64K. I'll see how he
goes with it.
Thanks all for your comments,
Warren
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Thu Mar 26 08:30:00 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803252230.JAA03395(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Available: tool to write disk images to PDP-11
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 09:30:00 +1100 (EST)
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Ok,
I debugged the thing yesterday, it works well. If you want to write
a PDP-11 disk image to a real PDP-11, you might like to look in:
ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver
and at the file zcat.README there.
Current disk and tapes supported:
hp: RP04, RP05 and RP06 disks.
rp: RP03 disks.
rk: RK05 disks.
rl: RL01 and RL02 disks.
ht: TU16 or TE16 tape drive.
tm: TU10 tape drive.
vt: The Virtual Tape drive.
You can download from any tape to any disk. The Virtual Tape drive allows
you to download the image over a KL11 at 9,600 baud. Any type of disk image
can be downloaded, not just Unix ones.
You will need compress(1). And a bit of patience.
Let's hope someone tries this out!
Ciao,
Warren
P.S I plan on migrating to the 2.11BSD standalone stuff, which supports
more tape drives and disk drives. Sometime.
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>From Peter Chubb <peterc(a)softway.com.au> Thu Mar 26 14:21:00 1998
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From: Peter Chubb <peterc(a)softway.com.au>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Progress on zcat
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Well...
my cut-down zcat now works under Linux, and compiles and links
cleanly under v7 on the simulator. But the semantics are
wrong!
Big problem is the lack of unsigned char and unsigned long
types.
I'm gradually going through and finding places where left
shifts, or sign extensions are happening, and masking them
explicitly.
I'm almost sure that at UNSW we had a C compiler on Unix V7 that had
an unsigned long data type...
Anyway, there's progress. And if it all goes OK, then
on machines that have separate I&D spaces, the resulting zcat
will be compatible with gzip everywhere.
Peter C
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>From "Ed G." <edgee(a)cyberpass.net> Fri Mar 27 12:51:31 1998
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From: "Ed G." <edgee(a)cyberpass.net>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 22:51:31 -0400
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Subject: Bug in Bob Supnik's Emulator!
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As you know, I wrote this list recently about a bug in Bob Supnik's
emulator which manifests when running factor (1).
I've had a chance to do some further research on this, and it seems
to me that the bug is definitely in Supnik's emulator. What do you
all think? Am I onto something? If so, what part of Supnik's code
is probably to blame?
Here's what I've learned so far:
1. factor on Supnik's emulator fails most of the time (see below for
examples).
2. factor works fine on Ersatz-11
2. On the off-chance that I munged the disk images and somehow
corrupted factor, I reextracted virgin images from the tar ball.
factor still fails while running on Supnik's emulator.
3. Peter Turnbull wrote me that factor running on under uv7 on his
PDP-11/23 runs the test case 'factor 6' without error.
Here's what factor does on Supnik's emulator for a variety of values:
factor 6
2
3
17
17 etc.
factor 257
263
263 etc.
factor 263
269
269 etc.
factor 1009 (works correctly)
1009
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<There are certain areas of Unix that don't seem quite "done" to me.
<Printing comes to mind (compare Unix benign neglect with Windows'
<universal printer driver).
Most of magtapes short commings under unix are common across most OSs
and are assignable to the characterisitcs of the medium. Mag tape has
several things that make it difficult, one is old (late 60s and through
the 70s) drives had a difficult time starting and stopping without
breaking tape or resorting to complex(then standards) controllers. This
lead to things like large interrecord gaps (start, speed up read, stop,
backspace records, stop, read) due to the inerta of starting and stoping
the reels. Also fixed record sizes were used to make blocks about the
same length so blocks and marks could be differentiated using simple
timers.
Magtape was for the longest time the only portable media, which lead to
the ansi/EBCDIC problems (Evryone else and IBM/HP). It was generally
used for archival storage making file organized access excess overhead.
While often used as block oriented, many systems used it more as a stream
device where the high volume storage (relative to the disks of the time)
capability was available.
When processing was done on early system usually two or three drives were
involved as one of two were for reading and the third was writing results
usually due to memory size limitations of the time compared to the amount
of data. Alot of magtapes lore is a result of historical use.
FYI the idea of tar files had spilled over to CP/M (8080, z80) systems
back in the 80s for distribution sets. It was done usually by creating
an archive set of compressed files (.arc, .ark, .lbr). to get the most
out of limited space of floppies (under 300k) of the time and to keep
programs set and sources together.
Allison
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>From Tim Bradshaw <tfb(a)aiai.ed.ac.uk> Thu Mar 26 02:03:59 1998
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From: Tim Bradshaw <tfb(a)aiai.ed.ac.uk>
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Cc: haba(a)pdc.kth.se (Harald Barth),
pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Subject: Re: What's TENIX??
In-Reply-To: <199803190227.NAA04067(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
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<199803190227.NAA04067(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
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* Warren Toomey wrote:
> In article by Harald Barth:
>> One PDP-11 I have (and don't quite understand the hardware of) calls itself
>> Tektronix 8562. In that box (43x60x30cm) you find
>> LSI-11/73 (only part made by DIGITAL)
>> Controller with
>> 8'' floppy
>> 40Mb MFM disk with TENIX (binary of some kind of V7 Unix)
>> Controller with
>> 10 ttys
> Hmm, I haven't heard of Tenix before. I might punt this onto the
> mailing list to see if anybody can identify it.
> Any ideas, people??
I remember this. Somewhere I worked as a student there was a
tektronix box which supported some kind of microcontroller development
system and/or and in-circuit emulator (for things like 8048 / 8051,
though I think it had personality modules). It was a box which was
known to be a PDP11, and had a couple of tek terminals on it, probably
another box with stuff to support the emulators/PROM blowers & stuff,
and it ran Tenix. I had an account on it, but all I knew then was
that it was some kind of Unix. V7 sounds right -- perhaps it was
Tek's OEMd version of this, with (I guess) support for whatever HW
they had + some kind of development environment / x-assemblers & so
on. The box just might still exist somewhere -- I made an attempt to
get hold of it after I realised that PDP11s were cool, but it was hard
because it had been worth a lot of money once and the accountants went
all funny about it.
--tim
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>From Milo Velimirovic <milov(a)toes.its.uwlax.edu> Thu Mar 26 02:32:14 1998
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From: Milo Velimirovic <milov(a)toes.its.uwlax.edu>
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 98 10:32:14 -0600
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: oddball versions of Unix
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Hey,
does anyone know if LSX is coverd by the SCO source license? And where to
get sources for it? It was a version of Unix that I played with 15 years ago
on an LSI-11 system with dual AED floppy drives... it was nice in that it
woudl run on a pdp11 that was lacking memory mangaement i.e. a 28kWord
machine....
Shake those gray cells friends and let's see if we can scare this one out of
the woodwork... it would make a lot of ancient pdp11's much more useful.
Regards,
Milo
---
Milo Velimirovic <Milo.Velimirovic(a)uwlax.edu>
Unix Computer Network Administrator (608) 785-8030
Information Technology Services -- Network Services
University of Wisconsin - La Crosse
La Crosse, Wisconsin 54601 USA 43 48 05 N 91 14 22 W
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>From Harald Barth <haba(a)pdc.kth.se> Thu Mar 26 02:51:55 1998
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To: tfb(a)aiai.ed.ac.uk
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: What's TENIX??
From: Harald Barth <haba(a)pdc.kth.se>
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 25 Mar 1998 16:03:59 GMT"
References: <199803251603.QAA13855(a)cara.aiai.ed.ac.uk>
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> The box just might still exist somewhere -- I made an attempt to
> get hold of it after I realised that PDP11s were cool, but it was hard
> because it had been worth a lot of money once and the accountants went
> all funny about it.
Oh yes, very common scenario. Booted just for fun, see below.
Harald.
Welcome to Tnix Version 2.1 (rev b) on an 11/73
We recommend that you check the file system after TNIX has been
restarted. ( Checking the file system takes about 5 minutes for a minimum
system of files, longer for more files. )
Do you want to check the file system at this time?
Enter y for yes, n for no, or question mark for more information : y
The standard TNIX syschk command reports any problems with
the file system, but does not fix them.
The Standalone Utilities syschk command reports any problems with the file
system, and queries you on how to fix the problems.
Which file system checker?
1) standard TNIX syschk (reports problems)
2) Standalone Utilities syschk (fixes problems)
Please enter a number: 1
checking /dev/rhd0:
...checking i-nodes and directory entries...
...checking tree structure...
...checking free list...
free list is ok. rebuild free list? (y or n): n
75349 total blocks in filesystem
0 bad blocks (0 percent)
44112 free blocks (58 percent)
22491 free i-nodes (89 percent)
TNIX shows the current date and time as
Sat Mar 22 23:31:31 MET 1997
If date and time is already correct, press RETURN.
Otherwise, you need to reenter the date.
The format for a date entry is [dd-mmm-yy] hh:mm[:ss]
Example: 22-jun-83 14:20
Please enter correct date: 25-mar-98 02:34
Wed Mar 25 02:34:51 MET 1998
Do you want to remain single user?
(Enter y for yes, n for no, or question mark for more information) : y
Now entering single-user mode. To exit from single-user mode,
enter CTRL-D.
#
Do you want to remain single user?
(Enter y for yes, n for no, or question mark for more information) : n
When you see the login prompt, you can enter your login name,
"manager", or "root".
login: your login name Logs you into your personal account. The account
must already have been created by the system
manager.
login: manager Displays information about common system manager
tasks, and information about the "root" account.
login: root Logs you in to the "root" account -- the account
used to maintain system files. As root, you have
full access to all files on the system, and no
restrictions as to what you can do with the files.
We recommend that you limit access to the root account,
and that you assign a password to the root account.
login: root
Password:
********************************************************************************
* *
* WELCOME TO TEKTRONIX *
* *
********************************************************************************
USERS ON THE SYSTEM:
ASSAR
HABA
MHO
IF YOU HAVE ANY PROBLEMS, DO NOT ASK HABA IF HE CAN HELP YOU
# ls -ltr
total 499
-rw------- 1 root 58740 Apr 10 1984 tnix.old
-rw------- 1 root 9852 Apr 10 1984 boot
drwxr-xr-x11 bin 176 Apr 10 1984 tek
-rw------- 1 root 57584 Apr 10 1984 TNIX.old
-rw------- 1 root 58740 Jun 20 1985 tnix
-rwx--x--x 1 root 57584 Nov 9 1985 TNIX
drwxr-xr-x 2 bin 736 Sep 23 1986 lib
-rw-r--r-- 1 root 1024 Oct 1 1986 .hp_memory
drwxrwxrwx 2 root 176 Jan 30 1987 lost+found
drwxr-xr-x 5 root 80 Sep 1 1992 home
drwxr-xr-x 7 bin 4336 Sep 1 1992 bin
drwxr-xr-x 2 root 928 Nov 5 1992 dev
drwxr-xr-x 2 root 80 Nov 5 1992 mnt
drwxrwxr-x 4 root 128 Apr 19 1993 vaxboot
drwxr-xr-x 4 bin 480 Mar 25 02:36 etc
drwxr-xr-x25 bin 416 Mar 25 02:36 usr
drwxrwxrwx 2 root 64 Mar 25 02:36 tmp
# shutdown
Wait for the message on the system console
saying it is all right to halt the system.
System may now be safely powered down or rebooted
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>From Milo Velimirovic <milov(a)toes.its.uwlax.edu> Thu Mar 26 05:47:24 1998
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From: Milo Velimirovic <milov(a)toes.its.uwlax.edu>
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 98 13:47:24 -0600
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Subject: Follow-up: oddball versions of Unix
Reply-To: Milo_Velimirovic(a)uwlax.edu
References: <9803251632.AA01056(a)toes.its.uwlax.edu>
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Hi,
The system I referred to below was described in:
Lycklama, H.
UNIX on a Microprocessor,
Bell System Technical Journal, Vol. 57, No. 6, July-August 1978, pp. 2087-2101
--Milo
Begin forwarded message:
>
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>From: Milo Velimirovic <milov(a)toes.its.uwlax.edu>
>Date: Wed, 25 Mar 98 10:32:14 -0600
>To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
>Subject: oddball versions of Unix
>Reply-To: Milo_Velimirovic(a)uwlax.edu
>Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
>
>Hey,
>
>does anyone know if LSX is coverd by the SCO source license? And where to
>get sources for it? It was a version of Unix that I played with 15 years ago
>on an LSI-11 system with dual AED floppy drives... it was nice in that it
>woudl run on a pdp11 that was lacking memory mangaement i.e. a 28kWord
>machine....
>
>Shake those gray cells friends and let's see if we can scare this one out of
>the woodwork... it would make a lot of ancient pdp11's much more useful.
>
>
>Regards,
>Milo
>---
>Milo Velimirovic <Milo.Velimirovic(a)uwlax.edu>
>Unix Computer Network Administrator (608) 785-8030
>Information Technology Services -- Network Services
>University of Wisconsin - La Crosse
>La Crosse, Wisconsin 54601 USA 43 48 05 N 91 14 22 W
>
>
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Thu Mar 26 06:33:46 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803252033.HAA03043(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: gzip on PDP-11: not so simple
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 07:33:46 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <199803251433.AA22453(a)world.std.com> from Allison J Parent at "Mar 25, 98 09:33:18 am"
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In article by Allison J Parent:
> I find this situation funny as in the 8080/z80 (8 bit data 64kbyte address
> space) world there is LZH, Crunch, ARK, ARC, LBR... compressors and
> decompressors. Atleast a handful are written in C.
>
> Also PDP11 address space (no I&D) is 32kW... Instructions are always
> words so code can eat up a fair portion of the 64k bytes.
Well, I've got uncompress working, but I thought having gunzip would
be good as it gives better compression results.
Warren
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>From Chris Drake <Chris.Drake(a)Corp.Sun.COM> Thu Mar 26 07:50:07 1998
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From: Chris Drake <Chris.Drake(a)Corp.Sun.COM>
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Subject: Re: Follow-up: oddball versions of Unix
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>UNIX on a Microprocessor
I did use something called "Mini-Unix" on a PDP-11/10, which was a single-
address space machine. It worked, sort of, but had some problems - like,
pipes were implemented as temporary files, so the shell broke things apart
into individual sequential commands... and printing with lpr generally
froze the machine up. There may have been later and better versions, though.
(This was around 76/77, as I recall).
- Chris
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I find this situation funny as in the 8080/z80 (8 bit data 64kbyte address
space) world there is LZH, Crunch, ARK, ARC, LBR... compressors and
decompressors. Atleast a handful are written in C.
Also PDP11 address space (no I&D) is 32kW... Instructions are always
words so code can eat up a fair portion of the 64k bytes.
Allison
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On Mar 25, 15:54, Greg Lehey wrote:
> Subject: Re: Bug in Supnik's emulator?
> On Tue, 24 March 1998 at 23:48:33 -0400, Ed G. wrote:
> > I don't know whether this is a bug in the factor (1) program (which
> > seems unlikely) or the emulator. Can someone try factoring numbers on
> > a real pdp-11 and tell me what happens?
> >
> > On the emulator when I type in a number, factor prints out the
> > prime factors, followed by an infinite series of 17s.
> I would be very surprised if this was a bug in the emulator.
> In any case, I tried it on the begemot emulator, running 2.11BSD:
>
> [55] root--> /usr/games/factor 6
> 2
> 3
> [56] root-->
On my PDP-11/23 running 7th Edition, factor works fine:
$ factor 6
2
3
$
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
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That reminds me. Why can't the 11/73 boot the unix RL pack directly from
console boot dialog? The system boots RSTS and RT-11 packs. Is the boot
block munged/missing? I might add it boots fine using boot/foreign from
rt11.
It's a curiousity as having RT on floppy or HD is not a big thing for me.
But if it can be fixed that would be an improvement.
Allison
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>From Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> Thu Mar 19 01:17:18 1998
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Subject: Re: V7 startup
To: allisonp(a)world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 07:17:18 -0800 (PST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <199803180459.AA20873(a)world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Mar 17, 98 11:59:06 pm
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> That reminds me. Why can't the 11/73 boot the unix RL pack directly from
> console boot dialog? The system boots RSTS and RT-11 packs. Is the boot
> block munged/missing? I might add it boots fine using boot/foreign from
> rt11.
The 11/73 firmware bootstrap expects the boot block to conform to certain
standards specified by DEC in the early/mid-80's. In particular, the
bootstrap must begin with a NOP, but there are some other requirements
I don't recall at the moment.
The toggle-in bootstraps that DEC supplied didn't do any such checks (who'd
want to toggle tha check in everytime, anyway?), they just read block 0 to
location 0 and jump to it (well, some also assume things about the SP
going somewhere reasonable, and sometimes certain register locations set
to certain things.) And RT-11's BOOT/FOR doesn't make any such checks,
either.
> It's a curiousity as having RT on floppy or HD is not a big thing for me.
> But if it can be fixed that would be an improvement.
You can either rewrite the 11/73 firmware to not do the check, or you can
rewrite the V7 boot block so it conforms to DEC's standard. The RL02
is a particularly stupid device and requires an inordinately large bootstrap,
so there may not be a lot of free room in the V7 boot block. You can also
stick a "toggle-in" RL02 bootstrap into RAM via ODT and execute that. But
I've decded that for me, the solution of RT's BOOT/FOR is the best, just
as you seem to have :-).
Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca)
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Thu Mar 19 12:27:07 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803190227.NAA04067(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: What's TENIX??
To: haba(a)pdc.kth.se (Harald Barth)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:27:07 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
In-Reply-To: <199803190143.CAA28649(a)pancake.pdc.kth.se> from Harald Barth at "Mar 19, 98 02:43:13 am"
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In article by Harald Barth:
> One PDP-11 I have (and don't quite understand the hardware of) calls itself
> Tektronix 8562. In that box (43x60x30cm) you find
> LSI-11/73 (only part made by DIGITAL)
> Controller with
> 8'' floppy
> 40Mb MFM disk with TENIX (binary of some kind of V7 Unix)
> Controller with
> 10 ttys
Hmm, I haven't heard of Tenix before. I might punt this onto the
mailing list to see if anybody can identify it.
Any ideas, people??
Warren
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>From "Sheila H.//Elwood Blues" <shsrms(a)erols.com> Thu Mar 19 13:40:55 1998
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Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 22:40:55 -0500
From: "Sheila H.//Elwood Blues" <shsrms(a)erols.com>
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CC: Harald Barth <haba(a)pdc.kth.se>,
PDP Unix Preservation <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: What's TENIX??
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Warren Toomey wrote:
>
> In article by Harald Barth:
> > One PDP-11 I have (and don't quite understand the hardware of) calls itself
> > Tektronix 8562. In that box (43x60x30cm) you find
> > LSI-11/73 (only part made by DIGITAL)
> > Controller with
> > 8'' floppy
> > 40Mb MFM disk with TENIX (binary of some kind of V7 Unix)
> > Controller with
> > 10 ttys
>
> Hmm, I haven't heard of Tenix before. I might punt this onto the
> mailing list to see if anybody can identify it.
>
> Any ideas, people??
>
> Warren
Tenex was a PDP10 (aka DECSystem 10/20) operating system.
Some 10s had 11s as consoles.
bob
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>From Harald Barth <haba(a)pdc.kth.se> Fri Mar 20 21:06:44 1998
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To: shsrms(a)erols.com
Cc: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au, haba(a)pdc.kth.se, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: What's TNIX (Was: What's TENIX??)
From: Harald Barth <haba(a)pdc.kth.se>
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 18 Mar 1998 22:40:55 -0500"
References: <351093C7.5B96(a)erols.com>
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Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 12:06:44 +0100
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Hi,
I wrote to Warren:
> > > One PDP-11 I have (and don't quite understand the hardware of) calls itself
> > > Tektronix 8562. In that box (43x60x30cm) you find
> > > LSI-11/73 (only part made by DIGITAL)
> > > Controller with
> > > 8'' floppy
> > > 40Mb MFM disk with TENIX (binary of some kind of V7 Unix)
> > > Controller with
> > > 10 ttys
Warren wrote:
> > Hmm, I haven't heard of Tenix before. I might punt this onto the
> > mailing list to see if anybody can identify it.
shsrms(a)erols.com wrote:
> Tenex was a PDP10 (aka DECSystem 10/20) operating system.
> Some 10s had 11s as consoles.
The Tektronix manuals say "Tektronix Unix" and "TNIX". Looks like I've
to boot the box and have a closer look at the actual software. I'm
quite sure that it is some kind of v7. Unfortunately, it's just
binaries. I don't think this should be confused with Tenex and/or
PDP10s which had PDP11s and PDP8s as I/O processors in different
places.
Harald.
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>From Harald Barth <haba(a)pdc.kth.se> Sun Mar 22 11:44:17 1998
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To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Cc: bygg(a)sunet.se, thn(a)stacken.kth.se, haba(a)pdc.kth.se
Subject: Two different 2.11?
From: Harald Barth <haba(a)pdc.kth.se>
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Started to get 2.11BSD working on emulator and 11/70. So far:
Started emulator taken from:
ftp://haba@minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/Boot_Images/2.11_on_rl02/
Made kernel on emulator which supports the actual hardware:
DELUA at non standard addr, RA81, RL02
Moved boot RL02 to 11/70 with RSTS/E
Made bootable RA81 on 11/70
Untar:ed usr from
ftp://haba@minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/Distributions/ucb/2.11BSD/file6.tar.gz
....And now the binaries from that tar file crash with "unknown system
call" However, the binaries distributed in the disk images work. Any
clues?
Harald.
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>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Sun Mar 22 14:23:15 1998
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Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 20:23:15 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <199803220423.UAA08735(a)moe.2bsd.com>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Two different 2.11?
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Greetings -
No, there is only 1 2.11BSD (in the sense that there are NOT
competing versions or distributions).
What happened I believe is that the Boot_Images/2.11_on_rl02 is older
than the files in Distributions/ucb/2.11BSD.
I have not looked at the Boot_Images/2.11_on_rl02 files to determine
when they were created (what patch level, etc.). On your RL02 system
what do the first two or three lines of /VERSION?
Anyhow, between the time that the 2.11_on_rl02 images were created
(I did not create them) and December-1997/January-1998 several new
system calls were created _AND_ the entire system was recompiled
and relinked. That is why you can NOT use binaries from the
Distributions/ucb/2.11BSD with earlier kernels. There is UPWARD
compatibility (old binaries can run on new kernels) but not backwards
compatibility.
What you need to do is build a 'tape' (using 'makesimtape' if you
need to use Bob's emulator) from ALL of the files in Distributions/ucb/
2.11BSD.
Steven Schultz
sms(a)moe.2bsd.com
> From: Harald Barth <haba(a)pdc.kth.se>
>
> Started to get 2.11BSD working on emulator and 11/70. So far:
>
> Started emulator taken from:
> ftp://haba@minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/Boot_Images/2.11_on_rl02/
>
> Made kernel on emulator which supports the actual hardware:
> DELUA at non standard addr, RA81, RL02
>
> Moved boot RL02 to 11/70 with RSTS/E
>
> Made bootable RA81 on 11/70
>
> Untar:ed usr from
>
> ftp://haba@minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/Distributions/ucb/2.11BSD/file6.tar.gz
>
> ....And now the binaries from that tar file crash with "unknown system
> call" However, the binaries distributed in the disk images work. Any
> clues?
>
> Harald.
>
>
>
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Mon Mar 23 07:55:25 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803222155.IAA08277(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: SCO processing the new licenses
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 08:55:25 +1100 (EST)
Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
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Hi all,
Dion at SCO writes today:
We have about a dozen licenses here, all paid up and signed off.
So you should start receiving your PDP Unix licenses soon. He didn't say who
the first dozen were.
Cheers all,
Warren
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>From "Ed G." <edgee(a)cyberpass.net> Mon Mar 23 12:02:10 1998
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From: "Ed G." <edgee(a)cyberpass.net>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 22:02:10 -0400
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Subject: Building sim tapes
Reply-to: edgee(a)cyberpass.net
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> What you need to do is build a 'tape' (using 'makesimtape' if you
> need to use Bob's emulator) from ALL of the files in Distributions/ucb/
> 2.11BSD.
I've looked everywhere I can think of on the PUPS site, but couldn't
find 'makesimtape'. I couldn't find it among the source of Bob's
emulator. Where can I get a copy of this program?
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Mon Mar 23 14:31:19 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803230431.PAA09463(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Building sim tapes
To: edgee(a)cyberpass.net
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 15:31:19 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <199803230302.WAA21783(a)renoir.op.net> from "Ed G." at "Mar 22, 98 10:02:10 pm"
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In article by Ed G.:
> > What you need to do is build a 'tape' (using 'makesimtape' if you
> > need to use Bob's emulator) from ALL of the files in Distributions/ucb/
> > 2.11BSD.
>
> I've looked everywhere I can think of on the PUPS site, but couldn't
> find 'makesimtape'. I couldn't find it among the source of Bob's
> emulator. Where can I get a copy of this program?
I don't think Bob's latest emulator has got this. I've hacked at another
program to do this, and I'll make it available tomorrow.
Bob has asked me to submit this to him for inclusion in his simulator.
Warren
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>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Mon Mar 23 14:38:48 1998
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Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 20:38:48 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <199803230438.UAA27736(a)moe.2bsd.com>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Building sim tapes
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> From: "Ed G." <edgee(a)cyberpass.net>
>
> > What you need to do is build a 'tape' (using 'makesimtape' if you
> > need to use Bob's emulator) from ALL of the files in Distributions/ucb/
>
> I've looked everywhere I can think of on the PUPS site, but couldn't
> find 'makesimtape'. I couldn't find it among the source of Bob's
> emulator. Where can I get a copy of this program?
It's in /usr/src/sys/pdpstand. Look in file7.tar.gz from the 2.11 part
of the Distributions and it should be somewhere in there.
makesimtape is a hacked up version of 'maketape', the syntax and data
file are the same so if you know how to use 'maketape' to create
bootable tapes you're all set.
The program is short enough I'll include it here. It should compile
and run with minimal tweeking on any 'BSD'ish UNIX system.
Steven
-----------------------
/*
* @(#)makesimtape.c 2.0 (2.11BSD) 1997/8/7
* Hacked 'maketape.c' to write a file in a format suitable for
* use with Bob Supnik's PDP-11 simulator (V2.3) emulated tape
* driver.
*
* NOTE: a PDP-11 has to flip the shorts within the long when writing out
* the record size. Seems a PDP-11 is neither a little-endian
* machine nor a big-endian one.
*/
#include <stdio.h>
#include <errno.h>
#include <fcntl.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <sys/types.h>
#include <sys/stat.h>
#include <sys/uio.h>
#define MAXB 30
char buf[MAXB * 512];
char name[50];
long recsz, flipped, trl();
int blksz;
int mt, fd, cnt;
struct iovec iovec[3];
struct iovec tmark[2];
void usage();
main(argc, argv)
int argc;
char *argv[];
{
int i, j = 0, k = 0, zero = 0;
register char *outfile = NULL, *infile = NULL;
FILE *mf;
struct stat st;
while ((i = getopt(argc, argv, "i:o:")) != EOF)
{
switch (i)
{
case 'o':
outfile = optarg;
break;
case 'i':
infile = optarg;
break;
default:
usage();
/* NOTREACHED */
}
}
if (!outfile || !infile)
usage();
/* NOTREACHED */
/*
* Stat the outfile and make sure it either 1) Does not exist, or
* 2) Exists but is a regular file.
*/
if (stat(outfile, &st) != -1 && !(S_ISREG(st.st_mode)))
errx(1, "outfile must either not exist or be a regular file");
/* NOTREACHED */
mt = open(outfile, O_WRONLY|O_CREAT|O_TRUNC, 0600);
if (mt < 0)
err(1, "Can not create %s", outfile);
/* NOTREACHED */
mf = fopen(infile, "r");
if (!mf)
err(1, "Can not open %s", infile);
/* NOTREACHED*/
tmark[0].iov_len = sizeof (long);
tmark[0].iov_base = (char *)&zero;
while (1)
{
if ((i = fscanf(mf, "%s %d", name, &blksz))== EOF)
exit(0);
if (i != 2) {
fprintf(stderr,"Help! Scanf didn't read 2 things (%d)\n", i);
exit(1);
}
if (blksz <= 0 || blksz > MAXB)
{
fprintf(stderr, "Block size %u is invalid\n", blksz);
exit(1);
}
recsz = blksz * 512; /* convert to bytes */
iovec[0].iov_len = sizeof (recsz);
#ifdef pdp11
iovec[0].iov_base = (char *)&flipped;
#else
iovec[0].iov_base = (char *)&recsz;
#endif
iovec[1].iov_len = (int)recsz;
iovec[1].iov_base = buf;
iovec[2].iov_len = iovec[0].iov_len;
iovec[2].iov_base = iovec[0].iov_base;
if (strcmp(name, "*") == 0)
{
if (writev(mt, tmark, 1) < 0)
warn(1, "writev of pseudo tapemark failed");
k++;
continue;
}
fd = open(name, 0);
if (fd < 0)
err(1, "Can't open %s for reading", name);
/* NOTREACHED */
printf("%s: block %d, file %d\n", name, j, k);
/*
* we pad the last record with nulls
* (instead of the bell std. of padding with trash).
* this allows you to access text files on the
* tape without garbage at the end of the file.
* (note that there is no record length associated
* with tape files)
*/
while ((cnt=read(fd, buf, (int)recsz)) == (int)recsz)
{
j++;
#ifdef pdp11
flipped = trl(recsz);
#endif
if (writev(mt, iovec, 3) < 0)
err(1, "writev #1");
/* NOTREACHED */
}
if (cnt > 0)
{
j++;
bzero(buf + cnt, (int)recsz - cnt);
#ifdef pdp11
flipped = trl(recsz);
#endif
if (writev(mt, iovec, 3) < 0)
err(1, "writev #2");
/* NOTREACHED */
}
close(fd);
}
/*
* Write two tape marks to simulate EOT
*/
writev(mt, tmark, 1);
writev(mt, tmark, 1);
}
long
trl(l)
long l;
{
union {
long l;
short s[2];
} foo;
register short x;
foo.l = l;
x = foo.s[0];
foo.s[0] = foo.s[1];
foo.s[1] = x;
return(foo.l);
}
void
usage()
{
fprintf(stderr, "usage: makesimtape -o outfilefile -i inputfile\n");
exit(1);
}
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Mon Mar 23 15:00:45 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803230500.QAA09569(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Where ISN'T the PUPS Archive (was building sim tapes)
To: sms(a)moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 16:00:45 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <199803230438.UAA27736(a)moe.2bsd.com> from "Steven M. Schultz" at "Mar 22, 98 08:38:48 pm"
Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
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In article by Steven M. Schultz:
> > From: "Ed G." <edgee(a)cyberpass.net>
> >
> > > What you need to do is build a 'tape' (using 'makesimtape' if you
> > > need to use Bob's emulator) from ALL of the files in Distributions/ucb/
> >
> > I've looked everywhere I can think of on the PUPS site, but couldn't
> > find 'makesimtape'. I couldn't find it among the source of Bob's
> > emulator. Where can I get a copy of this program?
> It's in /usr/src/sys/pdpstand. Look in file7.tar.gz from the 2.11 part
> of the Distributions and it should be somewhere in there.
Ah, I should point out to the readers of the mailing list:
The PUPS Archive is NOT what you get by going to
ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
as anonymous. Obviously, the archive has to be password
protected, and so the anonymous ftp on Minnie isn't the Archive.
I suspect Ed has been walking thru the anonymous area, which is why he
could only find Bob Supnik's emulator.
Anyway, Steven has provided a solution. Steven, could you put in
#ifdefs for particular endian architectures???
Cheers,
Warren
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>From "Ed G." <edgee(a)cyberpass.net> Tue Mar 24 11:49:02 1998
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From: "Ed G." <edgee(a)cyberpass.net>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 21:49:02 -0400
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Subject: What's magtape good for anyway?
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> The program is short enough I'll include it here. It should compile
> and run with minimal tweeking on any 'BSD'ish UNIX system.
Thanks!
I was just a plain old user during my college days, so I've never had
much contact with magtape.
But since magtape seems the easiest way to get data into and out of
Bob Supnik's emulator, I've been fooling around with (simulated)
tape a lot lately.
To me (or maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about) it seems
like magtape has a number of deficiencies:
No filenames or directory structure: just an ordered series of
bytes. Which would seem to imply that people must've used tar *a lot*
to get these services. True?
Padding of files to a multiple of the block size. Yuck! If I have
a 312 byte file, I do not want to save it and then retrieve a (to my
eyes anyway) different 512 byte file which has been padded with
200 bytes I didn't put there. Did this padding of files ever have
any bad effects?
So I was wondering, what *did* people use magtape for on these old
Unix systems?
Here are my guesses:
Bad Old Days What we use now
================================
Archival storage (tape, CD-Roms, Zip drives, floppies)
Application Software distribution (WWW, CD-Roms, ftp, email,
floppies)
System software distribution (CD-Roms, ftp)
Backups (tape)
Transfering a little data (Floppies, email).
Transfering a lot of data (CD-Roms, Zip drives, ftp, tape)
Have I left any significant use for tape out?
Ed G.
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Tue Mar 24 14:34:54 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803240434.PAA11927(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: What's magtape good for anyway?
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 15:34:54 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <199803240249.VAA27961(a)renoir.op.net> from "Ed G." at "Mar 23, 98 09:49:02 pm"
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In article by Ed G.:
> So I was wondering, what *did* people use magtape for on these old
> Unix systems?
Add another one: Xmas decorations.
Warren
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Tue Mar 24 14:45:16 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803240445.PAA11961(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Moving PDP-11 disk images to disk
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 15:45:16 +1100 (EST)
Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
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All,
I've had a few people ask the question:
I have a PDP-11, you have disk and tape images for old Unixes. How do get
the images onto my actual disk/tape so I can install Unix?
If anybody has sucessfully done:
image -> tape -> install to disk -> working PDP-11 UNIX
image -> install to disk -> working PDP-11 UNIX
or any other variant, using any intermediate system (e.g KSERVE & RT-11),
could they please drop me a note with some _details_ of what they did.
I'd like to add this to the FAQ, as I suspect this is going to be a
popular question as people receive their SCO UNIX licenses.
Thanks in advance!
Warren
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>From Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> Tue Mar 24 14:58:44 1998
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From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
Message-Id: <9803240458.AA14216(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
Subject: Re: What's magtape good for anyway?
To: edgee(a)cyberpass.net
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 20:58:44 -0800 (PST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <199803240249.VAA27961(a)renoir.op.net> from "Ed G." at Mar 23, 98 09:49:02 pm
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> To me (or maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about) it seems
> like magtape has a number of deficiencies:
>
> No filenames or directory structure: just an ordered series of
> bytes. Which would seem to imply that people must've used tar *a lot*
> to get these services. True?
Most (non-Unix) minicomputer OS's had built-in support for
ANSI labeled files, which do have filenames (and header bytes to
specify record sizes and number of records). Folks who used Unix
either made their own labeled tape facility (e.g. Ultrix and
OSF/1 "ltf") or just used "dd" and a lot of hard work.
The lack of a record structure that is built-in to the Unix filesystem
really makes things like tape transfers quite irritating. The rest of
the world isn't always just a stream of bytes!
Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca)
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>From Ken Wellsch <kcwellsc(a)math.uwaterloo.ca> Wed Mar 25 00:31:48 1998
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From: Ken Wellsch <kcwellsc(a)math.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-Id: <199803241431.JAA09618(a)math.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Re: What's magtape good for anyway?
To: shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 09:31:48 -0500 (EST)
Cc: edgee(a)cyberpass.net, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <9803240458.AA14216(a)alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Mar 23, 98 08:58:44 pm
Organization: University of Waterloo, Math Faculty Computing Facility
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Now far for me to be defending 9-track tapes on UNIX systems, and I'm
the first to admit I've not encountered *all* the various methods used
everywhere to write tapes, but it took no time for me years ago to write
a program that would pull blocks off a tape (by trying to read the max
limit block size) and recording the actual block size read. Oddly enough
when matched with a program that read this "raw format" info, it was sure
trivial to reproduce the tape... but I'm sure I'm missing something.
Luckily on my UNIX systems I am unencumbered by someone else's potentially
proprietary or undocumented "file structure" - both by the system and
by the media. -- Ken
| From owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Tue Mar 24 00:09:12 1998
|
| Most (non-Unix) minicomputer OS's had built-in support for
| ANSI labeled files, which do have filenames (and header bytes to
| specify record sizes and number of records). Folks who used Unix
| either made their own labeled tape facility (e.g. Ultrix and
| OSF/1 "ltf") or just used "dd" and a lot of hard work.
|
| The lack of a record structure that is built-in to the Unix filesystem
| really makes things like tape transfers quite irritating. The rest of
| the world isn't always just a stream of bytes!
|
| Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca)
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Mar 25 07:18:39 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803242118.IAA00742(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: More on Disk Images -> Disk
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 08:18:39 +1100 (EST)
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All,
I spent some time last night adding stuff to my virtual tape server.
I have to test it today, but essentially:
Box with serial line PDP-11 with
tape server -----------> uncompress & dd
+ disk_image.Z (bootable)
In other words, you can boot to an uncompressing dd, and suck over
any disk image, without actually requiring an operating system.
With this approach, you obtain an existing disk image that will work,
or you use one of the PDP-11 emulators to create a disk image with a
Unix kernel configured for your system. You then compress it, and
suck/splat it to your real PDP-11 via the serial line.
Now, what I've currently got will cope with -b12 compressed files. Can
someone tell me if it would be feasible to fit a gunzip into 64K?? Even
if it could only cope with gzip -1 files.
Cheers all,
Warren
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Mar 25 10:23:05 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803250023.LAA01449(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Compress Disk Image Install works
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 11:23:05 +1100 (EST)
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Well,
I'm currently sucking a .Z compress RK05 disk image over a 9600 baud
DL11 port; it seems to be working. Pity -b12 gives such low compression, but
I guess any saving at 9600 baud is worth it.
Warren
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>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Wed Mar 25 10:24:33 1998
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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 16:24:33 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <199803250024.QAA14701(a)moe.2bsd.com>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: More on Disk Images -> Disk
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Warren -
>From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
> Now, what I've currently got will cope with -b12 compressed files. Can
> someone tell me if it would be feasible to fit a gunzip into 64K?? Even
> if it could only cope with gzip -1 files.
If my understanding of 'gzip' is right then the alogrithm works on
32kb blocks of data and the '-N' level has little to do with the
memory consumption. Rather, as the -1, ... -9 level increases the
amount of work that gzip puts into the compression increases (the
difference between -6 and -9 is only a few percent in final output
size but the length of time taken is quite a bit higher).
Of concern would be getting the gzip sources to compile with a non-ANSI
compiler on a non-32bit machine (sizeof (long) == sizeof(int) is an
endemic assumption I wager). Well, ok - there is the worry that
you will grow old waiting for it to compress something ;-) Gzip is a
lot more cpu intensive than compress.
Steven
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Mar 25 10:32:56 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803250032.LAA01502(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: More on Disk Images -> Disk
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 11:32:56 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <199803250024.QAA14701(a)moe.2bsd.com> from "Steven M. Schultz" at "Mar 24, 98 04:24:33 pm"
Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
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In article by Steven M. Schultz:
> Warren -
>
> >From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
>
> > Now, what I've currently got will cope with -b12 compressed files. Can
> > someone tell me if it would be feasible to fit a gunzip into 64K?? Even
> > if it could only cope with gzip -1 files.
>
> If my understanding of 'gzip' is right then the alogrithm works on
> 32kb blocks of data and the '-N' level has little to do with the
> memory consumption. Rather, as the -1, ... -9 level increases the
> amount of work that gzip puts into the compression increases (the
> difference between -6 and -9 is only a few percent in final output
> size but the length of time taken is quite a bit higher).
>
> Of concern would be getting the gzip sources to compile with a non-ANSI
> compiler on a non-32bit machine (sizeof (long) == sizeof(int) is an
> endemic assumption I wager). Well, ok - there is the worry that
> you will grow old waiting for it to compress something ;-) Gzip is a
> lot more cpu intensive than compress.
I'm only thinking of implementing gunzip on the PDP-11. I've got
uncompress -b12 running standalone right now, but gunzip would be a big
win: you gzip -9 on a 32-bit system (higher compression) and gunzip
on the PDP-11.
I just don't know if the gunzip would fit. Isn't there a gunzip for MS-DOS?
Surely we could leverage something from it?
Warren
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Mar 25 13:36:28 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803250336.OAA02126(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: More on Disk Images -> Disk
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 14:36:28 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <m0yHgvc-000FlVC(a)bookworm.softway.com.au> from Peter Chubb at "Mar 25, 98 02:32:00 pm"
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In article by Peter Chubb:
>
> In the Linux kernel, linux/lib/inflate.c and
> arch/i386/boot/compressed/misc.c there's a set of gunzip routines that
> could probably be adapted -- it runs in 16 bit mode (or ought
> to). inflate.c is K&R C, so it should compile under V7; misc.c is
> ANSI, but is small (just wrappers around gunzip) and in any case would
> bneed changing to make a proper gunzip.
>
> I'll see what I can do.
> Peter C.
I think Steven described the main thing: will it run in 64K? I've popped
some mail off to Jean-loup, who was involved with writing gzip.
If we can get gunzip running in 64K on V7, I can then move it to a
standalone program with minimal effort: the V7 standalone library
provides open, close, read, write, printf, exit.
Cheers!
Warren
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>From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Wed Mar 25 14:31:34 1998
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To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
Cc: PDP Unix Preservation <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: More on Disk Images -> Disk
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On Wed, 25 March 1998 at 14:36:28 +1100, Warren Toomey wrote:
> In article by Peter Chubb:
>>
>> In the Linux kernel, linux/lib/inflate.c and
>> arch/i386/boot/compressed/misc.c there's a set of gunzip routines that
>> could probably be adapted -- it runs in 16 bit mode (or ought
>> to). inflate.c is K&R C, so it should compile under V7; misc.c is
>> ANSI, but is small (just wrappers around gunzip) and in any case would
>> bneed changing to make a proper gunzip.
>>
>> I'll see what I can do.
>> Peter C.
>
> I think Steven described the main thing: will it run in 64K? I've popped
> some mail off to Jean-loup, who was involved with writing gzip.
I've done a little bit of playing around with gzip 1.2.4. It works on
16 bit MS-DOS platforms with a bit of tweaking, and I got all modules
to compile under 2.11BSD. Unfortunately, I ended up with a couple of
undefined references on linking, and I haven't had time to look at it
in more detail. On the whole, though, it looks as if it could be made
to work, maybe with a little tweaking.
> If we can get gunzip running in 64K on V7, I can then move it to a
> standalone program with minimal effort: the V7 standalone library
> provides open, close, read, write, printf, exit.
Should be doable.
Greg
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>From "Ed G." <edgee(a)cyberpass.net> Wed Mar 25 13:48:33 1998
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From: "Ed G." <edgee(a)cyberpass.net>
To: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 23:48:33 -0400
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Subject: Re: What's magtape good for anyway?
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References: <199803240249.VAA27961(a)renoir.op.net> from "Ed G." at Mar 23, 98 09:49:02 pm
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> OSF/1 "ltf") or just used "dd" and a lot of hard work.
Is 'dd' Unix's primary tool for dealing with tape drives?
> The lack of a record structure that is built-in to the Unix filesystem
> really makes things like tape transfers quite irritating. The rest of
> the world isn't always just a stream of bytes!
There are certain areas of Unix that don't seem quite "done" to me.
Printing comes to mind (compare Unix benign neglect with Windows'
universal printer driver).
My understanding is that the Unix philosophy was to provide raw and
cooked drivers for all the devices. That way you could have access
to the hardware if you needed it, or cushy operating system services
if you didn't. Only the cooked mode for the tape devices doesn't
seem to do much more than the raw mode.
Seems to me that they could have easily added file system services
for tape drives to the kernel, just like they did for hard disks.
Was support for tape another area that the Wizzards at Bell Labs
neglected in favor of other more urgent needs?
Ed
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>From "Ed G." <edgee(a)cyberpass.net> Wed Mar 25 13:48:33 1998
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From: "Ed G." <edgee(a)cyberpass.net>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 23:48:33 -0400
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Subject: Bug in Supnik's emulator?
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I don't know whether this is a bug in the factor (1) program (which
seems unlikely) or the emulator. Can someone try factoring numbers on
a real pdp-11 and tell me what happens?
On the emulator when I type in a number, factor prints out the
prime factors, followed by an infinite series of 17s. So, for
example
factor 6
2
3
17
17
....
I might add that I had bc running on the emulator calculate pi to
30 places and the results were identical with gnu bc on my linux box,
right down to the last digit. Very impressive.
Ed
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>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Wed Mar 25 15:06:26 1998
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From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <199803250506.VAA16340(a)moe.2bsd.com>
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Subject: Re: More on Disk Images -> Disk
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Greg -
> I've done a little bit of playing around with gzip 1.2.4. It works on
Are gzip and gunzip comparable in size? I'm curious if the
decompression is more 'address space' hungry than the act of
compression (or vice-versa).
> 16 bit MS-DOS platforms with a bit of tweaking, and I got all modules
> to compile under 2.11BSD. Unfortunately, I ended up with a couple of
> undefined references on linking, and I haven't had time to look at it
Which symbols came up missing/undefined?
> > If we can get gunzip running in 64K on V7, I can then move it to a
>
> Should be doable.
It's actually 56kb or less - have to leave room for the stack and
other data (strings, etc)
Steven
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>From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Wed Mar 25 15:24:01 1998
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From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
To: edgee(a)cyberpass.net, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Bug in Supnik's emulator?
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On Tue, 24 March 1998 at 23:48:33 -0400, Ed G. wrote:
> I don't know whether this is a bug in the factor (1) program (which
> seems unlikely) or the emulator. Can someone try factoring numbers on
> a real pdp-11 and tell me what happens?
>
> On the emulator when I type in a number, factor prints out the
> prime factors, followed by an infinite series of 17s. So, for
> example
>
> factor 6
> 2
> 3
> 17
> 17
> ....
I would be very surprised if this was a bug in the emulator.
In any case, I tried it on the begemot emulator, running 2.11BSD:
[55] root--> /usr/games/factor 6
2
3
[56] root-->
Greg
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>From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Wed Mar 25 15:28:46 1998
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Subject: Re: More on Disk Images -> Disk
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On Tue, 24 March 1998 at 21:06:26 -0800, Steven M. Schultz wrote:
> Greg -
>
>> I've done a little bit of playing around with gzip 1.2.4. It works on
>
> Are gzip and gunzip comparable in size?
They're links to the same executable.
> I'm curious if the
> decompression is more 'address space' hungry than the act of
> compression (or vice-versa).
I haven't looked at the process images on systems on which they run.
I suspect it wouldn't relate directly to 16 bit platforms anyway,
since they have a slightly modified algorithm.
>> 16 bit MS-DOS platforms with a bit of tweaking, and I got all modules
>> to compile under 2.11BSD. Unfortunately, I ended up with a couple of
>> undefined references on linking, and I haven't had time to look at it
>
> Which symbols came up missing/undefined?
Various things defined in the program. They relate to the area in
which I was tweaking.
>>> If we can get gunzip running in 64K on V7, I can then move it to a
>>
>> Should be doable.
>
> It's actually 56kb or less - have to leave room for the stack and
> other data (strings, etc)
Yes, I understand. It may of course be that we need separate I and D.
Greg
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>From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Wed Mar 25 15:47:54 1998
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From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
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Subject: gzip on PDP-11: not so simple
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OK, I've found the problems with gzip, and they're not encouraging.
It would appear that the undefined references are undefined because
they refer to data which is too large. Here's the preprocessor
output:
uch inbuf[ 0x8000 + 64 ];
uch outbuf[ 16384 +2048 ];
ush d_buf[ 0x8000 ];
uch window[ 2*0x8000 ];
# 194 "gzip.c"
ush prev[ 1<<(16-1)];
ush tab_prefix1[ 1<<(16-1)];
uch and ush are uchar and ushort respectively. Obviously there's no
way of fitting this into a 64 kB address space. Possibly there's a
way of shortening the buffers, but it would take more time than I have
right now. Sorry for raising your hopes.
There are other zip-compatible programs out there, such as unzip.
Maybe somebody should look into them.
Greg
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>From John Holden <johnh(a)psychvax.psych.usyd.edu.au> Wed Mar 25 16:00:21 1998
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There were several tape handling programs that were standand from edition 5
onwards, including tap, tp, dtp, itp, tar and cpio. The only major tape standard
around at the time (other than IBM) was ANSI, and several programs (not from
Bell) were available to handle these. The ANSI tape structure was very
inefficient with tape usage, since it used small record sizes and lots
of tape marks. TAR did a better job (for Unix) and only lacked labels
to name the tape.
Putting tape filesystem handling into the kernel was definately against the
original 'small is beautiful' philosophy. In any case, tape handling was
very easy via the raw interface.
As a side issue, Plan 9 has the ability to mount a tape as part of the
namespace and only reads the file contents if the file is opened.
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>From Peter Chubb <peterc(a)softway.com.au> Wed Mar 25 17:43:00 1998
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To: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
Cc: PDP UNIX Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: gzip on PDP-11: not so simple
In-Reply-To: <19980325161754.63486(a)freebie.lemis.com>
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>>>>> "Greg" == Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> writes:
Greg> OK, I've found the problems with gzip, and they're not
Greg> encouraging. It would appear that the undefined references are
Greg> undefined because they refer to data which is too large. Here's
Greg> the preprocessor output:
Greg> uch inbuf[ 0x8000 + 64 ]; uch outbuf[ 16384 +2048 ]; ush
Greg> d_buf[ 0x8000 ]; uch window[ 2*0x8000 ]; # 194 "gzip.c"
You need to decrease the window size -- try setting it to 8k (instead
of 32k)
There should be a
#define WSIZE 0x8000
somewhere.
It may be worth playing with a decompress only version -- compression
will take more space than decompression (you need two windows rather
than one, for a start). inbuf can be smaller, too. Try 512 bytes to
match the disc record size.
Peter C
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>From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Wed Mar 25 17:11:36 1998
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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 17:41:36 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
To: Peter Chubb <peterc(a)softway.com.au>
Cc: PDP UNIX Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: gzip on PDP-11: not so simple
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On Wed, 25 March 1998 at 17:43:00 +1000, Peter Chubb wrote:
>>>>>> "Greg" == Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> writes:
>
> Greg> OK, I've found the problems with gzip, and they're not
> Greg> encouraging. It would appear that the undefined references are
> Greg> undefined because they refer to data which is too large. Here's
> Greg> the preprocessor output:
>
> Greg> uch inbuf[ 0x8000 + 64 ]; uch outbuf[ 16384 +2048 ]; ush
> Greg> d_buf[ 0x8000 ]; uch window[ 2*0x8000 ]; # 194 "gzip.c"
>
> You need to decrease the window size -- try setting it to 8k (instead
> of 32k)
>
> There should be a
> #define WSIZE 0x8000
> somewhere.
Correct. Unfortunately, it's not as simple as that. Here's the
definition:
#ifndef WSIZE
# define WSIZE 0x8000 /* window size--must be a power of two, and */
#endif /* at least 32K for zip's deflate method */
> It may be worth playing with a decompress only version -- compression
> will take more space than decompression (you need two windows rather
> than one, for a start).
Yes, that was really what I was thinking of doing with unzip, rather
than excising the unzip part from gunzip.
> inbuf can be smaller, too. Try 512 bytes to match the disc record
> size.
Sure, once I get into serious modifications I can try a number of
things. The trouble is, I just don't have the time. I thought it was
worth 15 minutes to see what it would do, and the first attempts
looked encouraging. Unfortunately, the second attempts didn't :-(
Greg
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<Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but ISTR that the dateset at startup
<just set MM/DD HH/MM and relies on reading the year last written in a fil
<somewhere. If you run 'date' as root once the system is up, you can set
<year as well.
You are correct. I works.
Now I have four systems running some form unix (Linux, Venix, Ultrix, and
V7) and their resemblence at the user level is good but at the sysadmin
they might as well be from different worlds. Granted, they are different
platforms.
Allison
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Mar 18 06:59:03 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803172059.HAA01365(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Sunchip package [was Assember in C?]
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 07:59:03 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <199803171500.KAA03862(a)link.link-systems.com> from Ken Wellsch at "Mar 17, 98 10:00:36 am"
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In article by Ken Wellsch:
[ Ken confirms that the Xinu distribution for the PDP-11 includes
the sunchip package, which is a C compiler and assembler, all
written in C ]
> Chip is the "Cornell Hypothetical Instructional Processor." It has a
> PDP11-like architecture and supports virtual memory.
> description can be found in the technical report:
>
> To run the simulator for this machine, you need a 4.1bsd (or newer) Unix
> system. The distribution also contains a development environment for CHIP
> containing a C compiler, assembler, loader and various other tools. To
> run the development software, you currently need Digital Equipment Corp.
> VAX computer. However, with minimal effort, all of this software should
> be able to run on any host with UNIX.
>
> [...]
>
> ----------------------------------- end of README --------------------
>
> P.S. As I suspected and feared,
>
> % diff -r Trees/V7/usr/src/cmd/c Xinu/src/cmd/cc11
>
> indicates the C compiler provided in all these archives (Xinu,
> CHIP, sunCHIP) are directly derived from the V6/V7 compiler.
So is the DECUS C compiler, I hear. Is there any native C compiler
for the PDP-11 which isn't derived from V6/V7?
Warren
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Mar 18 07:39:18 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803172139.IAA01634(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Sunchip compiler -- how to get it.
To: Milo.Velimirovic(a)uwlax.edu
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 08:39:18 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
In-Reply-To: <9803172136.AA03640(a)toes.its.uwlax.edu> from Milo Velimirovic at "Mar 17, 98 03:36:20 pm"
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In article by Milo Velimirovic:
> Postscript to previous note,
>
> Where might I obtain the sunCHIP C compiler for comparison purposes?
You need to fetch the Xinu distribution. I haven't got time to unpack the
compiler sections right now, but you can get the whole tarball at
ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/incoming/DISTR.lsi.tar.gz
Warren
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Mar 18 08:41:55 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803172241.JAA01741(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Real Origin of the DECUS C Compiler?
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 09:41:55 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <199803172238.RAA24010(a)link.link-systems.com> from Ken Wellsch at "Mar 17, 98 05:38:12 pm"
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In article by Ken Wellsch:
> I wasn't aware the DECUS C compiler (written in assembler) took anything
> from V6 and/or V7 but I may well be wrong. The DECUS C stuff had a
> special interest to me back in the Waterloo days because I believe
> a former U of Waterloo person wrote it long ago...
Hmm, that's what I'd heard. Perhaps the person who told me this was wrong.
Can anybody tell us the correct origins of the DECUS C compiler?
Warren
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Mar 18 11:22:59 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803180122.MAA02264(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: T-shirt for SCO Unix Licenses
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 12:22:59 +1100 (EST)
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I had this idea for a t-shirt to celebrate the release of the SCO PDP-11
licenses. The front says:
I am
LEGALLY
CONTAMINATED
by UNIX
The back has as much kernel source code as you can print on a t-shirt.
Near the middle is the comment /* You are not expected to understand this */
Sound good?
Warren
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>From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Wed Mar 18 11:47:42 1998
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Message-ID: <19980318121742.30724(a)freebie.lemis.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 12:17:42 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au, PDP Unix Preservation <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: T-shirt for SCO Unix Licenses
References: <199803180122.MAA02264(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
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On Wed, 18 March 1998 at 12:22:59 +1100, Warren Toomey wrote:
> I had this idea for a t-shirt to celebrate the release of the SCO PDP-11
> licenses. The front says:
>
> I am
> LEGALLY
> CONTAMINATED
> by UNIX
It's a nice start, but it doesn't really demonstrate the historical nature.
> The back has as much kernel source code as you can print on a t-shirt.
> Near the middle is the comment /* You are not expected to understand this */
That sounds good.
Greg
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>From "emanuel stiebler" <emu(a)ecubics.com> Wed Mar 18 12:33:46 1998
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From: "emanuel stiebler" <emu(a)ecubics.com>
To: <wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au>, "PDP Unix Preservation" <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: T-shirt for SCO Unix Licenses
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 19:33:46 -0700
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Hi Warren ...
----------
> From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
> To: PDP Unix Preservation <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
> Subject: T-shirt for SCO Unix Licenses
> Date: Tuesday, March 17, 1998 6:22 PM
>
> I had this idea for a t-shirt to celebrate the release of the SCO PDP-11
> licenses. The front says:
>
> I am
> LEGALLY
> CONTAMINATED
> by UNIX
>
> The back has as much kernel source code as you can print on a t-shirt.
> Near the middle is the comment /* You are not expected to understand this
*/
Do i need the SCO source license for this t-shirt ???? ;-))))
>
> Sound good?
>
>
yes
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Mar 18 12:42:38 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803180242.NAA02386(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: T-shirt for SCO Unix Licenses
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 13:42:38 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <19980318022245.AAA19033(a)1Cust202.tnt13.dfw5.da.uu.net> from emanuel stiebler at "Mar 17, 98 07:33:46 pm"
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> > I had this idea for a t-shirt to celebrate the release of the SCO PDP-11
> > licenses. The front says:
> >
> > I am
> > LEGALLY
> > CONTAMINATED
> > by UNIX
> >
> > The back has as much kernel source code as you can print on a t-shirt.
> > In the middle is the comment /* You are not expected to understand this */
>
> Do i need the SCO source license for this t-shirt ???? ;-))))
Yes, of course you will. You will also have to kill anybody who attempts
to read the back.
Greg Lehey also commented:
> It's a nice start, but it doesn't really demonstrate the historical nature.
Hmm, how can we rectify this?
How about a list of versions covered by the SCO License, arranged randomly
around the `I am LEGALLY CONTAMINATED by Unix' on the front?
Warren
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>From Joerg Micheel <joerg(a)krdl.org.sg> Wed Mar 18 12:58:21 1998
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Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:58:21 +0800 (SGT)
From: Joerg Micheel <joerg(a)krdl.org.sg>
Message-Id: <199803180258.KAA02180(a)iti.gov.sg>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Cc: brandt(a)fokus.gmd.de
Subject: Re: Real Origin of the DECUS C Compiler?
Reply-To: joerg(a)begemot.org
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# In article by Ken Wellsch:
# > I wasn't aware the DECUS C compiler (written in assembler) took anything
# > from V6 and/or V7 but I may well be wrong. The DECUS C stuff had a
# > special interest to me back in the Waterloo days because I believe
# > a former U of Waterloo person wrote it long ago...
#
# Hmm, that's what I'd heard. Perhaps the person who told me this was wrong.
# Can anybody tell us the correct origins of the DECUS C compiler?
One thing I can tell for sure: the DECUS C Compiler and the K&R CC are
completely different in their origins. I'm about 90% sure the DECUS XCC
is written in MACRO-11.
The reason I'm so sure is because we were looking at a suitable C compiler
to run on our 11/34 back in 1989 and we first mungled with the DECUS XCC.
But this one had several deficiencies, among them I remember lack of blocks
within functions, local variable initialization, difficulties with typedefs/structs.
Maybe, Harti could tell more.
We were looking into Johnson's pcc, but this one turned out to be a too big
piece of work and to slow to run on our 128 KWord machine.
Harti tried to port the Whitesmith CC from RT11, and it ran, but there were
deficiencies with the RT emulation, so we dropped that.
Finally, we took the K&R UNIX CC and reworked it so that it would pass the
DECUS XCC to produce the stage one. We wrote our own unix assembler supporting
the RSX object file format from scratch. Later, we recompiled the K&R CC on
RSX with itself. This system became our workhorse for the next 2 years, the
compiler is still amazingly fast, both in terms of runtime and the code being
produced. (Quoted: Harti)
So here are the 4 different original sources of C compilers for the 11, though,
admittedly, 2 of them would run on DEC's original OS, not on UNIX, which I guess,
makes them somewhat irrelevant to PUPS. Am I right here ? (Where do we draw the
boundary ?)
Joerg
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>From Joerg Micheel <joerg(a)krdl.org.sg> Wed Mar 18 13:00:59 1998
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Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 11:00:59 +0800 (SGT)
From: Joerg Micheel <joerg(a)krdl.org.sg>
Message-Id: <199803180300.LAA02265(a)iti.gov.sg>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Cc: brandt(a)fokus.gmd.de
Subject: Re: T-shirt for SCO Unix Licenses
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Warren writes:
# I had this idea for a t-shirt to celebrate the release of the SCO PDP-11
# licenses. The front says:
#
# I am
# LEGALLY
# CONTAMINATED
# by UNIX
#
# The back has as much kernel source code as you can print on a t-shirt.
# Near the middle is the comment /* You are not expected to understand this */
Hey, hey! Gotta make a reference to the original artwork! :-)
Joerg
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Mar 18 13:13:09 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803180313.OAA02583(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: T-shirt for SCO Unix Licenses
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 14:13:09 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <199803180300.LAA02265(a)iti.gov.sg> from Joerg Micheel at "Mar 18, 98 11:00:59 am"
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In article by Joerg Micheel:
> Warren writes:
>
> # I had this idea for a t-shirt to celebrate the release of the SCO PDP-11
> # licenses. The front says:
> #
> # I am
> # LEGALLY
> # CONTAMINATED
> # by UNIX
> #
> # The back has as much kernel source code as you can print on a t-shirt.
> # Near the middle is the comment /* You are not expected to understand this */
>
> Hey, hey! Gotta make a reference to the original artwork! :-)
>
> Joerg
I should say (and Joerg reminds me) that he & Harti sent me a t-shirt
a couple of years ago with a copy of boot/login sequence of V7 on the
front, and the section of the V6 kernel with the comment above on the
back. I wear it quite a bit, and my fiancee likes it too, but probably
for other reasons.
Thanks Joerg!
Warren
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>From Joerg Micheel <joerg(a)krdl.org.sg> Wed Mar 18 13:40:24 1998
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Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 11:40:24 +0800 (SGT)
From: Joerg Micheel <joerg(a)krdl.org.sg>
Message-Id: <199803180340.LAA04283(a)iti.gov.sg>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: T-shirt for SCO Unix Licenses
Reply-To: joerg(a)begemot.org
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# > # I had this idea for a t-shirt to celebrate the release of the SCO PDP-11
# > # licenses. The front says:
# > #
# > # I am
# > # LEGALLY
# > # CONTAMINATED
# > # by UNIX
# > #
# > # The back has as much kernel source code as you can print on a t-shirt.
# > # Near the middle is the comment /* You are not expected to understand this */
# >
# > Hey, hey! Gotta make a reference to the original artwork! :-)
# >
# I should say (and Joerg reminds me) that he & Harti sent me a t-shirt
# a couple of years ago with a copy of boot/login sequence of V7 on the
# front, and the section of the V6 kernel with the comment above on the
# back. I wear it quite a bit, and my fiancee likes it too, but probably
# for other reasons.
The /* You are not expected to understand this */ is also on the second
page of Peter Salus' A Quater Century of UNIX, explaining a lot of folklore
behind the UNIX history, including things like "a tape was found on the
street to contain ...".
The "contamination" term is (as far as I can tell) originated at Berkeley.
When USL sued UCB for violating AT&T UNIX copyrights, it became apparent,
that anyone ever having had a look at the original sources would be "infected"
and be disallowed to distribute code that vaguely resembles anything in UNIX.
Kirk McKusick then showed up with "Mentally contaminated" stickers for everyone
attending the 4.4BSD Kernel Internals course at the Winter 1993 USENIX
Conference, since he would present us - guess, what - source code! (of 4.4BSD)
I still have the sticker somewhere in my collection.
Joerg
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Mar 18 14:07:23 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803180407.PAA02670(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Mental contamination (was t-shirts)
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 15:07:23 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <199803180340.LAA04283(a)iti.gov.sg> from Joerg Micheel at "Mar 18, 98 11:40:24 am"
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In article by Joerg Micheel:
> The /* You are not expected to understand this */ is also on the second
> page of Peter Salus' A Quater Century of UNIX, explaining a lot of folklore
> behind the UNIX history, including things like "a tape was found on the
> street to contain ...".
Yes, I'd love to lay my hands on the `50 bugs' tape. For those who don't
have Peter Salus' book (get out there & buy it!), this tape had fixes to
V6, but the lawyers prevented Bell Labs from distributing it. So, someone
`found' it lying in the street and that's how the patches found their way
out of the Labs.
>The "contamination" term is (as far as I can tell) originated at Berkeley.
>Kirk McKusick showed up with "Mentally contaminated" stickers for everyone
>attending the 4.4BSD Kernel Internals course at the Winter 1993 USENIX
>Conference, since he would present us - guess, what - source code! (of 4.4BSD)
>
> I still have the sticker somewhere in my collection.
I got one of the `Free the Berkeley 4.4' t-shirts. Good stuff.
Kirk's the guy who is working on making the 4.xBSD releases available on CD.
Please don't hassle him about it; I'll do that 8-)
I've informed him that the SCO license covers 32V. Therefore, a lot of
people will soon become eligible to receive 4.xBSD.
Warren
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On Mar 16, 22:05, Allison J Parent wrote:
> Subject: Re: V7 startup
>
> Well v7 binary runs seemingly well on my 11/73 with the kitchen sink
> (the extra and unusable accouterments). It doesn't use much though!
> The Rl02 disk does have about 5mb space.
>
> One thing I'd like to do is have some additional storage other than the
> one RL02 drive I have. I figure that could easily be a RX02 but it's not
> obvious how to add that (to V7unix that is). The RQDX3/RD52 would be
> nice but I'll settle for a RX01/2.
I think I have the RX driver somewhere. Might take a while to find, though.
> The other is the date is 1988... month and day are setable but year?
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but ISTR that the dateset at startup does
just set MM/DD HH/MM and relies on reading the year last written in a file
somewhere. If you run 'date' as root once the system is up, you can set the
year as well.
> The last one bugged me some... there is no shutdown! To kill the system
> all I could do was make sure there weren't any excess processes running
> do a sync and hit restart. I assume this is ok as I use the same method
> for venix on the pro350, so far I haven't mashed that system.
Mine has a script which includes a umount (you won't strictly need that for a
single drive) and a sync or two, and a little message. It might have a 'kill
-1 1' to take it to single-user mode. Other than that, just halt it after a
sync.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
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<The kernel you got probably doesn't have much else. I could build anoth
<kernel for you. Once you get the source license, you'll be able to do i
<youself!
The probability source license is currently low, that cost is currently
out of my reach. The other problem with only a RL02 I doubt there is
compile space enough. The need to compile to get a bigger device is
hampered by the lack of a bigger device. A built kernal would be
desireable. In the mean time I can do a lot of learning off this one.
My wish list is MSCP disks, RL02, RX02, DLV11j, TK50 support and
networking. That's likely too much.
I'd be happy if I could mount a RX02 or MSCP disk even if I can't boot
off it.
That reminds me. Why can't the 11/73 boot the unix RL pack directly from
ODT/console boot? It does boot RSTS and RT-11 packs. the boot block
munged?
Allison
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<The kernel you got probably doesn't have much else. I could build anothe
<kernel for you. Once you get the source license, you'll be able to do it
<youself!
I believe it's the supnick V7 binary. that should be a known version to
those that have run the emulator (I haven't).
< date [ yymmddhhmm [ .ss ] ]
Date wants to see MM/DD HH/MM and that is it. Anything else causes
error and it asks again.
<What serial devices do you have? I think V7 expected hardwired things
<like KL-11s.
11/73 console DL. I'll look to see of I can lock the console settings.
I know on the 11/23 that can be done. Keep in mind I run Q-bus.
< even allow even parity
< -even disallow even parity
< odd allow odd parity
< -odd disallow odd parity
< 50 75 110 134 150 200 300 600 1200 1800 2400 4800 9600
No selection of number of data bits??
< http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/manpages.html
I've been relying on the linux ones and the Ultrix manuals I have.
Allison
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