[TUHS] Re: AIX moved into maintainance mode

Something I think would do wonders for UNIX diversity (although I obviously haven't done a feasibility analysis) is a convergence or at least some sort of homogenization of driver interfaces. That is one of the key areas where I think faster movement would have me using BSDs exclusively, but at any given time I can't expect the same hardware support from anything other than the Linux kernel. I'm not in the know on current driver interfaces to know if its apples to apples, apples to oranges, or apples to hypercubes. But still, if *BSD supported the BCM2711 in entirety w/ graphics accel and onboard SDIO-driven wifi, Linux would serve me no advantage at present other than I know how to tune the kernel build a lot better.

Granted, driver support is not only implicated here, I'd be a lot more nomadic with operating systems if I knew I could work on hobby projects across the preponderance of them efficiently. At the end of the day I just want a system with a POSIX-friendly kernel that works with all my devices and doesn't have a complicated userland. As of present, GNU/Linux w/ sysvinit is the happy medium, although one of these days I mean to research in earnest if there's a BSD/V7-ish init that actually gels well with Linux+Glibc userspace. - Matt G. ------- Original Message ------- On Wednesday, January 18th, 2023 at 9:25 AM, Will Senn <will.senn(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Fair enough, but the worlds a little more forgiving than all that doom > and gloom :). If an innovation happens in BSDland, it generally gets > ported into Linuxland, in time, and visa versa. I heart linux, don't get > me wrong. I just wish they would... > > > On 1/18/23 11:16 AM, Larry McVoy wrote: > > > Well if you want to use your precious time working on some BSD, by all > > means, it's your time. I looked at where the BSDs were going 30 years ago > > and decided that helping Linux would be a better return on investment. > > I don't say that happily, SunOS was my happy place and it was the best > > BSD that ever existed. Turning to Linux was not easy but history has > > shown it to have been the right choice for me. > > > > The problem with BSD is a lack of users. Linux has so many more people > > using it, the chances of one of them finding the problem and getting it > > fixed, before I hit it, are dramatically higher than the same thing with > > a BSD release. > > > > On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 10:57:17AM -0600, Will Senn wrote: > > > > > Pretty sure Netflix CDN is still using it as are other vendors in need of > > > stable and fast. Just cuz my neighbor doesn't use it, or joe website hoster > > > doesn't use it doesn't relegate it to the nobody uses it pile. > > > > > > On 1/18/23 10:42 AM, Larry McVoy wrote: > > > > > > > Wishful thinking. An OS needs critical mass in terms of developers. > > > > The BSD efforts divided their devs by having multiple efforts. It > > > > was very obvious from the beginning that Linux was getting all the > > > > developers. Go look at the rate of commits to Linux vs the rate > > > > of commits to {Net,Open,Free,DragonFly,etc}BSD. > > > > > > > > They aren't dead as in nobody does anything to them but they are > > > > dead in that very few people use them. > > > > > > > > Look, Linux users are tiny compared to Windows / MacOS, I think the > > > > desktop users is around 1%. BSD users are even more tiny than Linux. > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 10:36:48AM -0600, Will Senn wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Larry, > > > > > > > > > > I disagree, but only time will tell. I don't think BSD is dead is really a > > > > > fair statement, unless you're referring to the actual distribution. As a > > > > > line, I think it's still viable (I run it in several flavors and it works, > > > > > much more reliably than most linuxes which I also run in multiple flavors). > > > > > That said, everybody :) it seems, seems to be on the Linux is the future > > > > > bandwagon with seemingly only a few of us holdouts. Just a couple of days > > > > > ago I spun up a TrueNAS instance and it was glorious - of course it was > > > > > CORE, try that with SCALE :). > > > > > > > > > > It does seem like the wave favors Windows, Mac, and Linux... But, just cuz > > > > > they're popular doesn't mean the less popular OSes are dead (I say this as I > > > > > gaze fondly over towards my KIM-1 clone and think of Monitor. > > > > > > > > > > Will > > > > > > > > > > On 1/18/23 10:19 AM, Larry McVoy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Pretty unrealistic to expect the users to suddenly have the time to do > > > > > > kernel dev. Solaris opened sourced itself and it's dead. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a lot of work to maintain and evolve an OS. Windows, MacOS, and > > > > > > Linux seem like the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > As for BSD, they pretty much killed themselves by all the in-fighting and > > > > > > the lack of someone like Linus. That was obvious 30 years ago and it > > > > > > hasn't changed. That's why I switched from BSD to Linux. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 04:10:34PM +0000, segaloco wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just hope we'll see some attempts at opening up these code bases as time goes on. Seeing as they're no longer going to be pushing new copies and will eventually ramp down maintenance releases, opening up the source would give their end users the ability to potentially float their own improvements if they can't immediately migrate to Linux or BSD. That said, security implications of course, don't want to just hand bad actors a code base to comb for memory unsafety in. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also this article is BSD erasure :(, no mentions of the big three save that OpenServer and Darwin have chunks of FreeBSD in them. I guess Berkeley is just chopped liver... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Matt G. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- Original Message ------- > > > > > > > On Wednesday, January 18th, 2023 at 7:14 AM, Larry McVoy lm(a)mcvoy.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It makes perfect sense, it's a repeated story, commercial loses out > > > > > > > > to free. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 08:13:13AM -0700, arnold(a)skeeve.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Interestingly enough, Phil Hughes, who founded Linux Journal > > > > > > > > > in the early 1990s, predicted that this would happen one day. > > > > > > > > > This was in a private conversation we had. I thought he > > > > > > > > > was crazy, but he was right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > arnold(a)skeeve.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.theregister.com/2023/01/17/unix_is_dead/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FYI. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Arnold > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > > Larry McVoy Retired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat