Re: 4.3-VAX distributions

Exactly. The details are all in tmscpboot.c. Prepend this to the "tape directory", write it to TK50, B MUA0, and you're at the "=" prompt, from which you can execute the standalone images. "format" seems to crash badly, but one probably doesn't need that on a Q-bus machine :-). There are other ways to start it up. For example, using an already- running OS (some other Unix or VMS) and copying the miniroot from tape to the swap area of an unused disk. The compiled-in partition tables used during an install are a real pain compared to, say, a 2.11BSD installation, where disklabel is a standalone utility! (That's a real win, Steven!) Gees, looking at the install docs there are some very real improvements in Reno, especially in the filesystem and the speed of recompiled code. I'm willing to live with a bit more disk space usage, especially for the promised speed benefits. It's not like KA630's or KA650's are speed demons, and big cheap disks are readily available these days. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA14819 for pups-liszt; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 20:10:10 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0(a)MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA14808 for &lt;PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU&gt;; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 20:10:00 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id BAA06484 for PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 01:00:06 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 01:00:06 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" &lt;sms(a)moe.2bsd.com&gt; Message-Id: &lt;199811220900.BAA06484(a)moe.2bsd.com&gt; To: PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU Subject: Re: 4.3-VAX distributions Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk Hi - All caps? Must be using a V(erbose)M(essage)S(system) confuser - didn't know there were any left :-) :-) Since PUPS is on a uVax kick at the moment I'll chime in with my (not so fond) memories of trying to jack 4.3-Reno onto a uVax-II. It was a perverse sort of fun but not something I'd willingly do again. Burnout? Perhaps. the base 4.3 system up to and including Tahoe couldn't be cold started on a KA630 (much less a 650 since that didn't exist yet ;)). You _had_ to have the Ultrix 'boot' bits&pieces to work with. The 4.3 kernel had uVax support in it but the boot stuff did not. With 4.3-Reno that changed but... As others have noticed the cold start kit didn't create tapes suitable for a uVax. What I ended up doing was using my 2.11BSD 11/73 to create a bootable 4.3-Reno tape for the uVax - all the pieces are there, just need a system to 'dd' the files out with the right blocking factors, usw. Then the fun really began. The SPL "probing" logic in the kernel had a small problem when probing for MSCP controllers. As I recall (and this is going back quite a few years) some 3rd party adaptors ran at a different (lower) SPL than the probing logic expected - thus the autoconfig routines raised the SPL higher than the interrupt of the (Dilog I think) controller and the whole system hung. So, to install the system you HAD to use DEC controllers - ok, I had a RQDX3 and a couple RD53 drives present (the Dilog had a 319mb Miniscribe disk). BUT 4.3-Reno had a bug in the MSCP driver and would not recognize an honest to DEC RD53 drive! This was rapidly getting to be unfun. I think the workaround (it's been a __long__ time so memory is fuzzy) was to lie and call the drive an RA60 and then correct the problem later. But to get the lie thru to the kernel I had to use the standalone 'copy' program to copy a file (created on a PDP-11) to the first couple sectors of the uVax's RD53. Sheesh! You're quite welcome. Actually 4.3-Reno served as inspiration and reminder of pain to avoid when it came time to implement 2.11BSD's disklabel capabilities. I swore I'd never go thru the pain of the kernel having labels but the standalone utilities lacking them 4.3-Reno did have disklabels (the first 4.3BSD to do so) BUT the standalone programs still had compiled in partitions. Can't be any version of Ultrix I ever used. At the time 4.3-Reno came out Ultrix was still a warmed over 4.2BSD that DEC had corrupted with System V(anilla) bolted on contamination. Affectionately known as Buglix ;-) That was the same era that DEC had Ultrix-11 and that was a mucked up 2.9BSD. Of course you have to realize DEC had "Mr. Ken (Unix is Snake Oil) Olsen" around at the time 8-) UNIX is still around - but DEC? No, I don't like Compaq confusers thank you ;) 4.3-Reno was a transitional experiment that happened just as the CSRG and DEC had a serious falling out - and DEC support (Vaxen) vanished at that point. Any further work (4.4BSD) totally and completely ignored all DEC machines. Yep - you get NFS (which no 4BSD had prior to Reno). NFS doubles the size of the kernel though (at least) so there's a memory penalty to pay. It also brought many of the POSIX features (termios for example). Disk is cheap. Especially for older drives (but you run the risk that an old drive will die soon ;-(). Best to invest in a modern SCSI<->MSCP adaptor and use current drives (that's what I did for my 11/73 - adaptor is $$$ but the drives are cheap). Boy, you're not just whistling Dixie (apologies to those outside the US for which the reference is obscure). "Not a speed demon" doesn't begin to describe it. I went, believe it or not, thru the work of getting a newer GCC-2 (at the time I think 2.3.x was "new") to build and run on a uVax-II under 4.3-Reno. The biggest problem was that 4.3-Reno was neither "old" (V7ish) Unix or "POSIX" (just getting off the standard's writers desks). Getting GCC to build was a stop/go effort for several days but in the end the build would work: about 23 hours (or so)!! Sheesh - a 11/73 can *completely* regenerate itself from sources (all programs, manpages, etc) in about 28 hours. It was an interesting experiment but the uVax-II has sat here for 2+ years without being powered up. At one time the thought was to port 4.4BSD over but everyone that _could_ do the work lost interest - I've my PDP-11s and PPro systems to keep me busy so I haven't the time or inclination to do much with a KA630 system. For "slow" I have a PDP-11 (lots of fun, keeps you humble with the address space limits ;)). For 'fast' I have a couple dual cpu PPro systems (running BSD/OS) that can give a quad processor SUN Enterprise Server-4500 a run for their money. I have no need of a "slow" computer that attempts to run current day (bloated) software. I've toyed with the idea of swapping the innards of the 11/93 and the uVax. The KDJ11E would be a lot happier in a BA-123 than a BA-23;) But that's as far as it's gone (thinking about it). So - if anyone out there wants a uVax-II (9mb of memory but lots of disks and a 9-track tape drive to go with) drop by my place (shipping's out of the question). If you're more hardware capable than I perhaps we could swap the stuff into a BA23 (smaller enclosure to drive home, ...). Yikes and gadzooks - I was a bit verbose tonight (but my typing skills are much improved! ;-)). Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA14865 for pups-liszt; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 20:31:53 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f