22 Jan
2023
22 Jan
'23
12:37 a.m.
On Sat, Jan 21, 2023, 11:26 AM Clem Cole <clemc(a)ccc.com> wrote:
Yea. Mostly i think each program had a different wrapper around stderr to
minimize changes to the program...
With typesetter C -- we get dmr's new stdio library (libS.a) replacing
On Sat, Jan 21, 2023 at 12:50 PM Warner Losh <imp(a)bsdimp.com> wrote:
The utilities were all using printf so even if the concept was there, it
wasn't widely used.
I'll take a longer look, including these places.. though I'm not sure I
see the connection to the tty driver...
V7 revamps everything, with printf changed to a routine that writes to
Further digging shows v6 is quite similar.
As I said, by then they know it's an issue and the fd 2 has been
introduced. The place to look is not the utilities, but the shell itself
and what the kernel is doing in newproc et al for the tty handler.
stderr. Each
program did this differently.
IMO: Sort of two different things >>I think<<. They are related - the
idea
( what the OS supplied to each process), as opposed to what/how each
utility handled it.
Lesk's portable C library. This was released
independent of V6 as what DEC
would have called a 'layered product" that ran on top of V6. As I said,
this is the language that Dennis and Brian describe in K&R (version 1).
Do we have extant copies of that? So far I have see the kernel patches that
were "leaked" but not the rest of it.
With what was becoming UNIX/TS -- which don't seem to have a formal release
-- we get what we all think of as the V7 kernel,
Bourne's new shell and the
new and updated tools suite as part of the system
Yea.
So with V7, as you point out, most, but not all of the utilities have been
updated to start using the new compiler (since by then
Lesk library is not
included), If the code were recompiled, that code would have had to used
the new FILE * structure over the small integer fd, for the printf family.
With V6 there were still a handful of utilities in assembler (like snoball
IIRC), but by V7 I think most of them had been culled.
And while your point is that you need to look at what each utility
implemented, >>I believe<< that the key to Ron's question is what the
shell
and the kernel supplied [dates the idea], and >>then<< if the utility
obeyed the new fd 2 as the error file is when it starts to be more formally
enforced. So any further hunting should start there I would think.
Yea. Like many things, there was a transition... the most important bit is
the shell. And that was more tricky to read through with the phone at
breakfast...
Warner
Clem
Granted, this is a small sample size. There wasn't a huge uptake of
stderr/fd2 in v6 it seems, but v7 looks like it had a pass over the code to
at least try for all errors going to fd2.
Warner
> Warner
>
> On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 5:46 PM ron minnich <rminnich(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I am trying to remember when fd 2 (aka stderr) became a thing. I have
>>> a vague memory that it was post-v6 but that may be way off.
>>>
>>>
>>> ᐧ