Re: RX50 on RQDX3 on 2.11BSD

Unless you have a Shaffstall 6000 -- a really cool piece of equipment once made by my current employer, which is basically a box full of floppy drives (3.5" HD, 5.25" 48tpi, 5.25" 96tpi, 8", and a few, but not mine, have the Amstrad 3" 'flippy-disk') which are all _really_ well-aligned (20% better than OEM spec) and an intelligent disk controller (which is actually an 8085-based SBC) in a PC. About the only disks I _can't_ read (or write or format) with this thing are the 2.88MB 3.5" 'extended-density' disks -- and I have a NeXTstation to read those. Needless to say, I've got no problem formatting RX50s, in any interleave. That's what I get. I noticed that, too. Still haven't tried it. Had to watch the Pacers game and get some needed sleep. I've gone over ra.c several times -- that's a fun piece of code. I've written device drivers before, but really, was this a test of DEC software engineers by DEC hardware engineers? Well, all my serial cables are three-wire (yes, I'm lazy, but I get 1.8K/sec via SLIP at 19200, so I'm not too concerned), but the 'numerous other goodies' I like. As for the userland environment, it's "vanilla BSD" and that's exactly what I know and love. Give me 2.11BSD on a PDP over Solaris on an UltraSPARC any day (well, if anyone wants to _give me_ and UltraSPARC, I'll do the responsible thing and reevaluate my claims -- and SunOS [4.1.x that is] is a decent OS, but anyway, I digress). The only thing I want is command history and filename completion in the Bourne shell (having grown used to Bash -- although it's a big memory pig and I admit I use it only for the previously mentioned features, though I like the PS variable magic characters, too -- I'm thinking about trying to hack the CH features of tcsh (never been a C shell fan) into sh, maybe we should start a 2BSD 'ports' collection? Any suggestions for a name of this shell? Any suggestions for freeing up my time to write it :)? Also, when I get my RX50 toolset for FreeBSD working, should I put it in the archive? It'd probably be more interesting to PUPS'ers than the FreeBSD community At Large. -jtm Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA29341 for pups-liszt; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 08:43:34 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: from mail.enteract.com (mail.enteract.com [207.229.143.33]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29337 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 08:43:29 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from enf(a)shell-2.enteract.com) Received: from shell-2.enteract.com (enf(a)shell-2.enteract.com [207.229.143.41]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA75007; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 17:41:25 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from enf(a)shell-2.enteract.com) Received: (from enf@localhost) by shell-2.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA99748; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 17:41:25 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from enf) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 17:41:25 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <200006082241.RAA99748(a)shell-2.enteract.com> From: Eric Fischer <enf(a)pobox.com> To: pdub(a)accesscom.com, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: unix precursors In-Reply-To: <393F04A1.2A71E151(a)accesscom.com> References: <m21z29f90d.fsf(a)localhost.localdomain> <200006072250.RAA82201(a)shell-1.enteract.com> <393F04A1.2A71E151(a)accesscom.com> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Paul West writes, Thanks for reminding me about the Jack Dennis article -- I had forgotten about that one. There were, I think, at least *four* time-sharing systems for the PDP-1. Besides the MIT and BBN ones, there was also the Hospital Computer Project (I'm not sure whether that one was descended from the early BBN system or was written from scratch) and the THOR system at Stanford. I can't give proper citations because I'm currently 2000 miles from my book collection. eric Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA29456 for pups-liszt; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 09:00:50 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29452 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 09:00:48 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.2/8.9.3) id IAA05733; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 08:58:44 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200006082258.IAA05733(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: tcsh on 2.11BSD In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10006081444001.7342-100000(a)guildenstern.shaffstall.com> from "Jason T. Miller" at "Jun 8, 2000 3:40:15 pm" To: jasomill(a)shaffstall.com (Jason T. Miller) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 08:58:44 +1000 (EST) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (Unix Heritage Society) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by Jason T. Miller: I thought there was a port of an early tcsh to 2.*BSD? Maybe I have poor memory. Anyway, I believe that Minix has a very tiny editline(), which could be squeezed into the 2.11BSD csh to give you command-line editing. Yep, it will go into Tools/ Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA29574 for pups-liszt; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 09:24:11 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: from mail.enteract.com (mail.enteract.com [207.229.143.33]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29569 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 09:24:05 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from enf(a)shell-1.enteract.com) Received: from shell-1.enteract.com (enf(a)shell-1.enteract.com [207.229.143.40]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA81631; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 18:21:44 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from enf(a)shell-1.enteract.com) Received: (from enf@localhost) by shell-1.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA57997; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 18:21:44 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from enf) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 18:21:44 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <200006082321.SAA57997(a)shell-1.enteract.com> From: Eric Fischer <enf(a)pobox.com> To: lars(a)nocrew.org Subject: Re: unix precursors In-Reply-To: <85snuoenl3.fsf(a)junk.nocrew.org> References: <m21z29f90d.fsf(a)localhost.localdomain> <85snuoenl3.fsf(a)junk.nocrew.org> Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Lars Brinkhoff writes, If nothing else, the "more" program began as a copy of an ITS feature. And people think of emacs as a Unix program, but it came to Unix from ITS and brought with it things like the "info" documentation format. eric Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA29906 for pups-liszt; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 10:28:15 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: from ns2.accesscom.com (root(a)ns2.accesscom.com [64.240.196.3]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29902 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 10:28:11 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from pdub(a)accesscom.com) Received: from accesscom.com (ppp19.dialup.accesscom.com [64.240.200.19]) by ns2.accesscom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id RAA28066; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 17:25:59 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ns2.accesscom.com: Host ppp19.dialup.accesscom.com [64.240.200.19] claimed to be accesscom.com Message-ID: <394039E1.ED6AB226(a)accesscom.com> Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 17:27:13 -0700 From: Paul West <pdub(a)accesscom.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lars brinkhoff <lars(a)nocrew.org> CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: unix precursors References: <m21z29f90d.fsf(a)localhost.localdomain> <85snuoenl3.fsf(a)junk.nocrew.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk lars brinkhoff wrote: ITS was quite idiosyncratic, and I do not recall that Richie or Thompson ever mentioned it as an influence on Unix. But you can judge for yourself, if you want. The ITS Reference manual is available at "ftp://publications.ai.mit.edu/ai-publications/0-499/AIM-161A.ps" The source code and system documentation for ITS has been released under the GPL, and is at "ftp://fpt.swiss.ai.mit.edu/pub/its". Happy historical hunting! Paul Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA29925 for pups-liszt; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 10:31:08 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: from ns2.accesscom.com (root(a)ns2.accesscom.com [64.240.196.3]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29916 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 10:30:50 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from pdub(a)accesscom.com) Received: from accesscom.com (ppp19.dialup.accesscom.com [64.240.200.19]) by ns2.accesscom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id RAA28267; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 17:28:39 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ns2.accesscom.com: Host ppp19.dialup.accesscom.com [64.240.200.19] claimed to be accesscom.com Message-ID: <39403A83.CDDC2592(a)accesscom.com> Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 17:29:55 -0700 From: Paul West <pdub(a)accesscom.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lars brinkhoff <lars(a)nocrew.org> CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: unix precursors (corrected URL) References: <m21z29f90d.fsf(a)localhost.localdomain> <85snuoenl3.fsf(a)junk.nocrew.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Sorry for the repeat, I mistyped a URL in the first version. Paul --- lars brinkhoff wrote: ITS was quite idiosyncratic, and I do not recall that Richie or Thompson ever mentioned it as an influence on Unix. But you can judge for yourself, if you want. The ITS Reference manual is available at "ftp://publications.ai.mit.edu/ai-publications/0-499/AIM-161A.ps" The source code and system documentation for ITS has been released under the GPL, and is at "ftp://ftp.swiss.ai.mit.edu/pub/its". Happy historical hunting! Paul Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA32362 for pups-liszt; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 19:09:04 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: from sam.on-net.net (sam.on-net.net [204.117.190.8]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA32358 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 19:09:00 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jasomill(a)indiana.edu) Received: from as45.onet.net (as45.onet.net [207.40.154.45]) by sam.on-net.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA11456 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 04:05:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 03:55:11 -0500 (EST) From: "Jason T. Miller" <jasomill(a)indiana.edu> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: RX50 read/write on FreeBSD Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0006090342330.4154-100000(a)lizard.indiana.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Thanks to the good advice of members of the PUPS mailing list, I've completed my first stab at an RX50 read/write toolset for FreeBSD. It consists of two parts, a kernel patch to add the physical format, and a filter set to deal with the logical sector interleave. It's ugly (not only does it only support stdin and stdout, but it uses both 'goto' and the ternary operator; I tend to deeply offend the C style gods, late at night when I think nobody's watching), but it seems to work pretty well. The kernel patch, at least, is clean. Those with good karma and flawlessly aligned drive heads can even try formatting their own RX50s. So how do I submit it to the archive? "incoming" seems to be RO. It's about 3K, tarred and gzipped. Jason T. Miller Self-styled Jack of England "..." -Anonymous Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA33589 for pups-liszt; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 23:19:02 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: from sam.on-net.net (sam.on-net.net [204.117.190.8]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA33585 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 23:18:57 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jasomill(a)shaffstall.com) Received: from guildenstern.shaffstall.com (cisdn-2 [206.229.84.2]) by sam.on-net.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA17942; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 08:14:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 08:14:11 -0500 (EST) From: "Jason T. Miller" <jasomill(a)shaffstall.com> To: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> cc: Unix Heritage Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: tcsh on 2.11BSD In-Reply-To: <200006082258.IAA05733(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10006090801130.8604-100000(a)guildenstern.shaffstall.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Yup. There's a tcsh included in 2.11BSD; thing is, I'm partial to the Bourne shell. Hence, a project. Well, it's kind of ugly (okay, really ugly), but it's working pretty well. The physical I/O portion is a (miniscule) patch against the 4.0-STABLE FreeBSD kernel, but the interleave filters are pretty much standard C (hideous C, but no BSD tricks) and should work on any raw I/O read of an RX50 disk (you can do it in Linux without kernel mods; see setfdprm(8)). Of course, the filters are only applicable to PDP-11-ish or VAX-ish RX50s; Rainbow and DECmate disks are totally different; if someone wants to implement those things, go ahead (Rainbow MS-DOS could be had with careful mods to mtools, and there are a billion ways to skin a CP/M disk; haven't seen anything on UNIX to handle the DEC WPS file management system, but I digress), but they have little to do with UNIX on the PDP and less to do with me personally (my loving father having discarded my DECmate II as junk about ten years ago). -jtm Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA34013 for pups-liszt; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 00:57:18 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)