17 Jun
2024
17 Jun
'24
6:29 a.m.
Except A68 is the core of Bourne Shell. Truth is original Algol’s DNA -
much less A68 - lived on in most programming languages we use today. Not
knowing anything about both puts you at a huge disadvantage.
Linux at its core is the Unix ideas (core IP) not the source code. Trying
to rid it of so called “bad ideas” shows how little respect those taking
such actions have. In others word, their taste is rather disappointing if
not out right poor.
Frankly my major complaint with much of the modern world is that when we
ignore the past and we are cursed for forgetting its lessons. As had been
said many times before, we are better served when we stand on the shoulders
of great people rather than stepping on their toes.
This discussion wrt the systemd is a prefect example.
Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual
On Sun, Jun 16, 2024 at 8:11 PM Peter Yardley <
peter.martin.yardley(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Algol has been a dead language for many years, for
good reasons too.
On 17 Jun 2024, at 5:44 AM, Clem Cole
<clemc(a)ccc.com> wrote:
On Sun, Jun 16, 2024 at 2:50 PM Greg A. Woods <woods(a)robohack.ca> wrote:
In the "Unix world" everyone learns shell scripting, some better than
others of course, and some hate it at the same time too, but I would say
from my experience it's a given. You either learn shell scripting or
you are "just a user" (even if you also write application code).
Side story - I think you can tell a lot about a person by what is on
their
bookshelf at work and what books they have read.
A few years ago, I discovered this same flaw in using UNIX (Linux) well
with some
of the new hires (from really good schools, too), and it was
worse because they often had never seen the true Bourne shell (nor knew
much/anything about Algol, much less A68). Many thought "bash" was the
UNIX shell because they never knew better (chuckle). I realized it was a
huge hole in their education, so I got my admin to order each copies of
K&R2 and UPE for their desks. I said I expected them to do the exercises
in them as part of their "training." I could usually tell a lot about each
person by the questions they asked during that period. Many often griped
about having to learn to use ed and nroff. I think those that were already
EMACS folks thought I was a little bonkers but my comment was that you'll
understand the other tools better/be a lot more effective with the shell in
particular. Many had seen Latex, so the >>idea<< of a document compiler was
not always completely foreign. But they crawled through each book.
But it was interesting when it was done. To a person, they all said they
were much
better with the UNIX tool kit after UPE, and because they
actually read K&R2, they often learned a few things about C they never
realized. Once they "graduated" also I gave them a copy of APUE, if they
were doing networking stuff, UNP too. Most would start doing the APUE and
UNP problems also as I would get some of them coming to my office with
questions, but I never said they had to do them.
Clem
ᐧ
Peter Yardley
peter.martin.yardley(a)gmail.com