[TUHS] Re: Other POSIX Candidates?

The POSIX standard is based on the /usr/group standard which we started in 1981 under /usr/group, and turned into the standard in 1984, which was then turned over to the IEEE under the leadership of Jim Isaac. As the chair of the /usr/group standards effort, we made every attempt to include as many UNIX vendors as possible, systems vendors as well as application vendors. The work of the /usr/group standard was joined by all major computer manufacturers - mainframe, mini-computer, and micro-computer - plus applications vendors who were interested in having their apps run on as many platforms as possible. The members of the /usr/group standard committee also included the vendors of UNIX-like systems who did not have access to the source code for the UNIX System. ISC (my employer at the time) also developed a UNIX emulation product that ran on the VAX VMS system in 1979. We had an interest in providing a platform for as many applications as possible on the VAX UNIX emulation platform. I do not recall that Govt contracts were a big concern at the time that we started the UNIX standards effort, but it did become a concern over the years. My recall of the UNIX standards beginnings. Heinz On 8/6/2024 11:09 AM, arnold(a)skeeve.com wrote: > For a long time DEC had "VMS POSIX" product. I don't know much > more about it, other than that it existed and was what you > describe, more or less. > > Marc Rochkind mrochkind(a)gmail.com wrote: > > > As I remember, part of the rationale was that DEC wanted something that > > could be specified in an RFP that was defined in terms of an interface, > > rather than an implementation. In theory this would allow them to propose > > VMS with an appropriate interface layer. I don't know if anything like this > > was ever created. But the interface standard sure was, of course. > > > > On Tue, Aug 6, 2024 at 11:32 AM Rik Farrow rik(a)rikfarrow.com wrote: > > > > > I recall something different than what others had suggested. When the US > > > government issued requests for proposals, they weren't permitted to specify > > > products by name. In particular, if you wanted something that wasn't > > > Microsoft, you couldn't actually specify that it be Unix. > > > > > > So POSIX was born partially as a way of letting it be known you wanted a > > > Unix variant rather than something else. > > > > > > Certainly porting was an issue. I did work for a software shop in the late > > > 80s and early 90s that produced graphics software, and porting between Unix > > > systems was relatively easy, compared to, say, moving the software to > > > Apollo's DomainIX, a sort of Unix-like version of Apollo Domain. With Unix > > > systems and this software, the biggest issue was fonts, as the software > > > needed to be able to calculate the extent, that is, the bounding box, for > > > text that was to be displayed. > > > > > > Strangely enough, the other big issue was time. > > > > > > Rik > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 6, 2024 at 6:29 AM Peter Weinberger (温博格) via TUHS < > > > tuhs(a)tuhs.org&gt; wrote: > > > > > > > and the folks from PARC wanted a more RPC-based open OS, according to > > > > my not-yet-fully-retrieved memories. > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 6, 2024 at 2:40 AM arnold(a)skeeve.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > segaloco via TUHS tuhs(a)tuhs.org wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Another way to put it would be as a chicken and egg, which came > > > > > > first, ... > > > > > > ..., or the ongoing need for UNIX standardization finding sponsorship > > > > > > by the working groups, IEEE, etc.? > > > > > > This. > > > > > > > > > > Try to understand what things were like at the time. There were > > > > > a ton of competing Unix systems, all different: > > > > > > > > > > - IBM: AIX on the mainframe and PS/2, which were different from > > > > > AIX on the RT/PC and later RS/6000 (workstations). > > > > > > > > > > - DEC: Ultrix on minicomputers and microvaxen, and later on MIPS > > > > > based workstations > > > > > > > > > > - Data General: DG/UX on their minicomputers. > > > > > > > > > > - Pyramid: A BSD/System V hybrid RISC minicomputer > > > > > > > > > > - Sun: Workstations, 680x0 based and later SPARC based, and servers. > > > > > Initially BSD based, later SVR4 based. > > > > > > > > > > - Workstations from HP, Tektronix, NBI, others I've probably forgotten, > > > > > 3B2 and 3B1/Unix PC from AT&T... The list goes on and on and on. > > > > > > > > > > Things split roughly along BSD/System V lines, but code wasn't portable. > > > > > Did you use bcopy() or memcpy()? index() or strchr()? There was lots > > > > > of mixing and matching happening, too. > > > > > > > > > > There was a crying need for a standard. The mess is what begot GNU > > > > > Autoconf, which made a difference at the time. Having the ANSI C > > > > > standard > > > > > also helped. > > > > > > > > > > HTH, > > > > > > > > > > Arnold > > > > > -- > > > > > My new email address is mrochkind(a)gmail.com mrochkind(a)gmail.com