26 Jun
2024
26 Jun
'24
10:34 p.m.
The POSIX Standard for the UNIX System was actually
started under the umbrella of /usr/group, which was
comprised mostly of commercial companies and users
of the UNIX system. /usr/group was the forerunner
of UniForum. I chaired the /usr/group standard from
1981 to 1984, after which we turned the work over
to the IEEE, chaired by Jim Isaac and co-chaired by
myself. I worked for INTERACTIVE Systems Corp,
in Santa Monica, CA- the first commercial UNIX
company that provided for UNIX system software
on the DEC PDP11 and VAX computers, and led the
porting of the UNIX System to many different computer
architectures from micro to mainframe.
Heinz
On 6/26/2024 11:52 AM, segaloco via TUHS wrote:
On Wednesday, June 26th, 2024 at 11:43 AM, James
Johnston <audioskeptic(a)gmail.com> wrote:
ANSI accredits US standards committees and
delegates, both to US and International Meetings.
ANSI can vote to accept a standard. While I don't know the issue behind POSIX,
it's entirely possible that ANSI accredited IEEE to standardize things. They have
done this to many various groups for standards within their wheelhouse. Sometimes this has
worked well, sometimes it has worked to the interest of some particular entity, speaking
as someone who has spent one to many days hanging out in standards meetings as a
"technical expert".
On Wed, Jun 26, 2024 at 11:35 AM Marc Rochkind <mrochkind(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Well and that touches on one of the standards that adds some interest to this
discussion: "An American National Standard IEEE Standard Pascal Computer Programming
Language". In this case, ANSI/IEEE 770 X3.97 is the Pascal standard as sponsored by
both IEEE *and* ANSI. The lines can certainly blur. Another example of a language
standard under IEEE is 1076, VHDL. Could it be interpreted as such:
IEEE is one institute among many that may originate the creation and publication of
standards in the field of electrical engineering and adjacent fields. ANSI, in turn, is a
national general standards body that publishes standards created by groups such as IEEE as
well as those created relatively independently by their own committees such as X3.
In other words you're liable to have IEEE standards that get tracked as ANSI, but
the likelihood of ANSI cooking something up in their own committees and then bouncing it
out to IEEE is lower if present at all?
- Matt G.
P.S. If anyone wants a trial-use copy of POSIX, there's one sitting on eBay right
now https://www.ebay.com/itm/145798619385
I think historically ANSI did languages.
But, I don't know specifically why IEEE became the standards body for POSIX. I did
participate for a while in the IEEE standards process (not POSIX, but something else), and
I knew it as a large, very active, well managed organization, always eager to take on new
things (such as the thing that I was engaged in). So maybe that was one reason.
Maybe a greater reason is that the part of IEEE standards that did software was chaired
by a person from DEC (forgot his name). I'm sure DEC had a strong interest in a
UNIX-based standard, if only to make sure that it didn't go completely wild and
negate DEC's huge head start in selling machines to run UNIX.
Marc
On Wed, Jun 26, 2024 at 12:22 PM segaloco via TUHS <tuhs(a)tuhs.org> wrote:
--
James D. (jj) Johnston
Chief Scientist, Immersion Networks
Good morning, I was wondering if anyone has the
scoop on the rationale behind the selection of standards bodies for the publication of
UNIX and UNIX-adjacent standards. C was published via the ANSI route as X3.159, whereas
POSIX was instead published by the IEEE route as 1003.1. Was there every any consideration
of C through IEEE or POSIX through ANSI instead? Is there an appreciable difference
suggested by the difference in publishers? In any case, both saw subsequent adoption by
ISO/IEC, so the track to an international standard seems to lead to the same
organizations.
- Matt G.
--
My new email address is mrochkind(a)gmail.com