[pups] AVIV vs. DigiData tape controller

I've got an AVIV TFC-825 UNIBUS controller on my 11/44. I'm virtually certain it emulates a TS11. It appears to support Pertec formatted tape drives. It has two cable interfaces, labeled Pertec P1 and Pertec P2. I currently have a DigiData Pertec formatted 9-track drive plugged into a DigiData controller on my QBUS 11/83. Works fine. Now I'd like to use the drive to bootstrap the 11/44. The DigiData drive's cables are both 49-pin ribbons. Sure enough, the DigiData controller's cable headers are also 49-pin (what a wonderful world, eh?) However, the AVIV controller's cable headers are 59-pin! Anyone have any insight into what's going on here? Isn't a Pertec interface a Pertec interface? Or is the DigiData using some kind of proprietary (to DigiData) interface? thanks, greg Gregory Travis Cornerstone Information Systems ATS greg(a)ciswired.com 812 330 4361 ext. 18 Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA82497 for pups-liszt; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 03:58:24 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: from chiton.ucsd.edu (chiton.ucsd.edu [192.135.238.128]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA82493 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au&gt;; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 03:58:16 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu) Received: (from cdl@localhost) by chiton.ucsd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA11048; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:52:58 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:52:58 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Lowenstein &lt;cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu&gt; Message-Id: &lt;200103141652.IAA11048(a)chiton.ucsd.edu&gt; To: ciswired.com(a)mpl.ucsd.edu, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] AVIV vs. DigiData tape controller Cc: cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Are you sure those numbers aren't 50 and 60, respectively? For what it's worth, there were two distinctly different "Pertec" interfaces. They might be called Early Pertec and Late Pertec. For Early Pertec, the eventual cable breakout to the drives went to three connectors, Read data, Write data, and Control. Possibly the AVIV controller was meant to be used with a custom cable set to match a "three-connector" drive. carl carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA82533 for pups-liszt; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 04:03:46 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: from chiton.ucsd.edu (chiton.ucsd.edu [192.135.238.128]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA82529 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au&gt;; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 04:03:43 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu) Received: (from cdl@localhost) by chiton.ucsd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA11108 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:58:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:58:28 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Lowenstein &lt;cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu&gt; Message-Id: &lt;200103141658.IAA11108(a)chiton.ucsd.edu&gt; To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] AVIV vs. DigiData tape controller Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Are you sure those numbers aren't 50 and 60, respectively? Most of the connecting cables for tape drives used twisted-pair ribbon cable. For what it's worth, there were two "standard" Pertec interfaces. I think of them as Early Pertec and Late Pertec. Late Pertec is the two 50-pin cables. Early Pertec connected to the drive with three cables, Read data, Write data, and Control. Usually there was a custom cable set that broke out to three cables from the connectors on the controller. carl carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA83014 for pups-liszt; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 05:19:36 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: from goby.ciswired.com (IDENT:root@goby.ciswired.com [206.97.67.65]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA83010 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au&gt;; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 05:19:32 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from greg(a)ciswired.com) Received: from weasel.ciswired.com (root(a)weasel.ciswired.com [206.97.67.73]) by goby.ciswired.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA25416; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:05:46 -0500 Received: from localhost (greg@localhost) by weasel.ciswired.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23422; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:14:39 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: weasel.ciswired.com: greg owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:14:39 -0500 (EST) From: "Gregory R. Travis" &lt;greg(a)ciswired.com&gt; To: Carl Lowenstein &lt;cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu&gt; cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] AVIV vs. DigiData tape controller In-Reply-To: &lt;200103141652.IAA11048(a)chiton.ucsd.edu&gt; Message-ID: &lt;Pine.LNX.4.10.10103141305380.23323-100000(a)weasel.ciswired.com&gt; MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Carl Lowenstein wrote: You're absolutely right. I just read the pin #s off the boards next to the connector. They printed 49 and 59 but, of course, there's the other row of pins. I >THINK< I've got that covered. The "early pertec", as I recall, are also referred to as unformatted and consist, as you say, of three cables. I've got a Western Digital UNIBUS TM11 controller that uses three cables. The later pertec are referred to as formatted and consist of just two cables. My DigiData controllers use just two cables to my DigiData drive. Now this AVIV controller has TWO connectors along its top. That's for sure. But the connectors have each got more pins than the DigiData controllers do. As you say, I guess it's possible that the AVIV is actually an unformatted controller that takes two "large" cables/connectors and breaks them out later into three smaller cables/connectors. But that would truly suck. greg Gregory Travis Cornerstone Information Systems ATS greg(a)ciswired.com 812 330 4361 ext. 18