TUHS

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6412 discussions

by Paul Ruizendaal

> Sockets (which btw, totally SUCK PUS) were coded into things > and even (YECHH) made POSIX and IETF spec status. Streams didn't stand > a chance. The question that originally pulled me into researching Unix networking 1975-1985 was more or less “how did we end up with sockets?”. That was 7 years or so ago, I now have a basic feel for how it came to be, and I also have better appreciation of the trade offs. What is the most “Unixy” of networking (as in the API and its semantics) is not something with an easy answer. If I limit myself to the 1975-1985 time frame, I see three approaches: 1. The API used in Arpanet Unix, which was also used by BBN in its first reference implementation of TCP/IP 2. The BSD sockets API, in two flavours: the Joy flavour in BSD4.1a, and the Karels flavour in BSD4.1c and later 3. The Ritchie/Presotto IPC library / API from V8/V9. This evolved into SysV networking, but the original is the clean idea At a high level of abstraction, there is a lot of similarity; close-up they are quite different. I like all three solutions! One thing that struck my attention was that the Ritchie/Presotto IPC library has the concept of “calling” a host and the host/network can reply with a response code (“line busy”, “number unknown”, “not authorised”, etc.). BSD sockets do not cover that. I guess it derives from Spider/Datakit having that functionality, and Arpanet / tcp-ip not having that (resorting to a connection ‘reset’ or dead line instead). Sockets have a more elegant solution for connectionless datagrams (imo), and for the same reason I guess. Sure, sockets has too much of the implementation sticking through the abstractions, but it is IMO not a bad design. That it became dominant I think is in equal measure due to economics and due to being “good enough”. If someone has a proposal for a network API that is cleaner and better than what was out there, and would have worked with the hardware and use cases of the early 80’s, I’m all ears. But maybe better on COFF... Paul

2 years, 6 months

Re: forgotten versions

by Paul Ruizendaal

Wholeheartedly agree with the observations on forgotten versions, lack of source and a smaller pool of people back in the day. It is not just the Research versions, also the internal AT&T versions and the base System V versions get little attention. Same reasons I think. Luckily, these days the sources are available (although in the case of SysV of unclear legal status). Part of the problem I think is that it is not well known what innovations are in each version. About 2 years ago I did a lot of spelunking through the V8 source and with the help of this list could come up with a list of highlights for V8 (text is now on the TUHS V8 source web page). Never had the time to do that for V9. I think it was mentioned that it had a new filesystem with a bitmap free list. Also, it seems to have a lot of cleaned-up implementations of things that were new and rough in V8. No clue what was new in V10. Similar with Unix 3, Unix 4 and Unix 5. I’m thrilled that the docs for Unix 4 showed up recently. In these doc’s there is no material on IPC. From this I think that the IPC primitives from CB-Unix did not get merged in Unix 4, but only in Unix 5 (in a reworked form). Personally, I’m still working (off and on) on recreating the Reiser demand paging system. To keep it interesting I’ve now got Sys III running on a small RISC-V board, and when I find another time slot I’ll try to add Reiser paging to it. So the forgotten versions are only mostly forgotten, not totally forgotten :^)

2 years, 6 months

Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0

by Norman Wilson

Maybe make www.tuhs.org a CNAME for tuhs.org? Surely a site devoted to the history of UNIX should use a real link, not a symbolic one. Norman `Old Fart' Wilson Toronto ON

2 years, 6 months

Re: Source code for SCCS

by Paul Ruizendaal

It would seem that a Spinellis-like exercise for SCCS is possible: PWB1.0 (1978): https://www.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=PWB1/sys/source/sccs4 SysIII (1980): https://www.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=SysIII/usr/src/cmd/sccs SysVr1 (1983): https://www.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=pdp11v/usr/src/cmd/sccs SysVr2 (1984): https://github.com/ryanwoodsmall/oldsysv/tree/master/sysvr2-vax/src/cmd/sccs SysVr3 (1987): https://github.com/ryanwoodsmall/oldsysv/tree/master/sysvr3/301/usr/src/cmd… SysVr4 (1988): https://github.com/ryanwoodsmall/oldsysv/tree/master/sysvr4/svr4/cmd/sccs Ultrix3.1 (1988): https://www.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=Ultrix-3.1/src/cmd/sccs I did not find SCCS sources included with the BSD sources on TUHS, but there is a front-end “sccs” command. For sure, SCCS was used for BSD development. Kirk McKusick’s DVD has a directory "CSRG/historic1/sccscmds”, but I did not look into this further. From here the trail probably continues with Solaris, GNU and Bitmover -- all very much outside my timeframe of research. Paul > The original Marc Rochchild/John Mashey and team code from PWB 1.0 can be > found: http://tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/USDL/spencer_pwb.tar.gz > In the directory: sys/source/sccs4 > The man pages are in the same archive but mixed with the rest of the > commands in usr/man/man* > > That said, there is Gnu version of same written C++ if IIRC: > https://www.gnu.org/software/cssc/ > > And there's more ... but I'll Larry offer details here other than point out > his: http://www.bitmover.com/bitsccs/ [which is of BitKeeper] is a > more modern implementation still]

2 years, 6 months

Documentation for Unix 4.0

by Warren Toomey

Hi all, we have a new addition to the Unix Archive at: https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Documentation/Manuals/Unix_4.0/ This is the documentation for Unix 4.0 which preceded System V. The documents were provided by Arnold Robbins and scanned in by Matt Gilmore. Cheers, Warren

2 years, 6 months

blast from the past

by Andrew Hume

this is an old video, new to me, but i’m sure others on this list have seen it. its a little long, but has al aho, jon bentley, bjarne, ken&denis, plan 9 amongst others. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFfdnFOiXUU&t=2s <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFfdnFOiXUU&t=2s>

2 years, 7 months

Fwd: [simh] Announcing the Open SIMH project

by Clem Cole

Announcing the Open SIMH project SIMH is a framework and family of computer simulators, initiated by Bob Supnik and continued with contributions (large and small) from many others, with the primary goal of enabling the preservation of knowledge contained in, and providing the ability to execute/experience, old/historic software via simulation of the hardware on which it ran. This goal has been successfully achieved and has for these years created a diverse community of users and developers. This has mapped to some core operational principles: First, preserve the ability to run old/historically significant software. This means functionally accurate, sometimes bug-compatible, but not cycle-accurate, simulation. Second, make it reasonably easy to add new simulators for other hardware while leveraging common functions between the simulators. Third, exploit the software nature of simulation and make SIMH convenient for debugging a simulated system, by adding non-historical features to the environment. Fourth, make it convenient for users to explore old system environments, with as close to historical interfaces, by mapping them to new features that modern host operating systems provide. Fifth, be inclusive of people and new technology. It's serious work, but it should be fun. Previously, we unfortunately never spent the time to codify how we would deliver on these concepts. Rather, we have relied on an informal use of traditional free and open-source principles. Recently a situation has arisen that compromises some of these principles and thus the entire status of the project, creating consternation among many users and contributors. For this reason, a number of us have stepped up to create a new organizational structure, which we call "The Open SIMH Project", to be the keeper and provide formal governance for the SIMH ecosystem going forward. While details of the structure and how it operates are likely to be refined over time, what will not change is our commitment to maintaining SIMH as a free and open-source project, licensed under an MIT-style license as shown on the "simh" repository page. It is our desire that all of the past users and contributors will come to recognize that the new organizational structure is in the best interests of the community at large and that they will join us in it. However, this iproject as defined, is where we intend to contribute our expertise and time going forward. At this point, we have in place the following, although we foresee other resources being added in the future as we identify the need and execute against them: A Github "organization" for the project at https://github.com/open-simh A Git repository for the simulators themselves at https://github.com/open-simh/simh The license for the SIMH simulator code base, found in LICENSE.txt in the top level of the "simh" repository. The "SIMH related tools" in https://github.com/open-simh/simtools. This is also licensed under MIT style or BSD style open source licenses (which are comparable apart from some minor wording differences). A "SIMH Steering Group" -- project maintainers and guides. The conventional git style process is used for code contributions, via pull request to the project repository. The Steering Group members have approval authority; this list is likely to change and grow over time. By formalizing the underlying structure, our operational principles and guidance can best benefit the community. These are being developed and formalized, with a plan to publish them soon. We have used our best judgment in setting up this structure but are open to discussion and consideration of other ideas, and to making improvements. Many of us have been part of different projects and understand that past mistakes are real. We have tried to learn from these experiences and apply the collected wisdom appropriately. We desire to hear from the community as we update and refine the operating structure for the Open SIMH project. We hope for your patience and look forward to your support as we work to refine the organization and be able to provide this wonderful resource for anyone to use as we continue to evolve the technology provided by the SIMH system. The SIMH Steering Group Clem Cole Richard Cornwell Paul Koning Timothe Litt Seth Morabito Bob Supnik ᐧ ᐧ ᐧ

2 years, 7 months

Please move the SIMH discussion to COFF

by Warren Toomey

Hi all, I think it's time to move the (no longer) SIMH discussion over to the COFF mailing list. The S/N ratio is dropping and we are straying too far away from the Unix side of things. Many thanks! Warren

2 years, 7 months

Re: [TUHS, groff] 1981 edition of AT&T Nroff/Troff User's Manual

by Douglas McIlroy

> https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Documentation/Manuals/Unix_4.0/Volume_1/C.1.2_… Since PDF didn't exist in 1981, the document is either a scan or the result of a recent *roff run on ancient source. If it was made from source, it's an impressive testimonial to the longevity and stability of troff. Most probably it's a scan, in which case we owe many thanks to the public-spirited person who digitized this trove. Was it you, Arnold? Doug

2 years, 7 months

Re: Fwd: [simh] Announcing the Open SIMH project

by Bakul Shah

On Jun 3, 2022, at 4:48 PM, Larry McVoy <lm(a)mcvoy.com> wrote: > Um, so there were 3: 386, Net and Free. That's already 2 too many. My recollection matches what Warner is saying. NetBSD & FreeBSD got going *because* 386BSD was effectively frozen. It wasn't dead dead but patches were not being upstreamed (as we say now), and so on. I do agree with you that even two variants were 1 too many. But even one would probably not have mattered as the AT&T lawsuit was a huge cloud on *BSD's popularity. As well as there were other factors. Linus and Linux had a much better story, its development was more nimble, with many younger and much more enthusiastic developers/users etc. Not that anyone really cares at this point except some graybeards! The Open SIMH project sounds great!

2 years, 7 months

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