On 2014-12-31 21:14, Clem Cole<clemc(a)ccc.com> wrote:
>
> Jake - you have lots of help from others and using curses(3) is definitely
> the right way to program.
>
> But to answer your specific question about printf(string), according to
> Chapter 3 (Programmer's Info) of my old VT-100 user's guide, I think what
> is you are doing wrong is that "\033c" is not the ANSI clear to end of
> screen command.
Right...
> When I saw your message on my iPhone last night, the cache said - wait that
> can't be correct. But I could not remember why. So I had to wait until
> I got back home today to look in my basement.
>
> As I suspected, it's not an ANSI sequence. So are you running in VT-100
> (ANSI) mode or VT52 mode? I ask because it is close to the VT52 cursor
> right command which is actually: "\033C" but I do not remember is case
> mattered.
Case do matter.
> In VT52 mode you need to send the terminal: "\033H\033J" to clear the
> screen.
>
> In ANSI mode, it becomes: "\033[1;1\033[0J"
Shorter form: "\033[H\033[J"
> A few things to remember:
> 1.) Clear takes the current cursor position and clears from there to end of
> X (where X depends on mode, and type of clear). So you need to move the
> cursor to home position (aka 1,1).
Not really. It's way more advanced than that.
If we start with the generic clear screen, it is CSI Pn J
Where CSI can be expressed as ESC [ (or "\033[" in the same parlance as
above.)
Pn, then is an argument to the function, while J is the actual function
(clear screen in this case).
Now, Pn can cause many things:
0 Clear from cursor to end of screen
1 Clear from cursor to end of screen
2 Clear from beginning of screen to cursor
3 Clear whole screen
If no argument is given, the default is 0.
> 2.) VT-100's did not implement the full ANSI spec like Ann Arbor, Heathkit,
> Wyse etc. So there are a number of things that those terminals did
> better. A really good reason to you curses(3) because all the knowledge is
> keep in the termcap and as a programmer you don't need to worry about it.
Probably true. However, I'm not sure Ann Arbor or Heathkit did much
better. As far as I can remember, they were always more "weird", but I
might just be confused. However, curses(3) is definitely a good way of
not having to care about different terminal oddities.
> 3.) I saw sites were VT52 mode was sometimes preferred because it was good
> enough for most editing, and needed fewer chars to do manipulation. On
> slow serial lines, this sometimes was helpful. That said, give me an AAA
> any day. Like others, I still miss that terminal.:-)
Yeah, the VT52 was simpler, and had shorter control strings. But of
course, with the additional limitations that came with that.
Personally, I'd give an AAA or a Heathkit away if one was dropped on me.
A VT100 I would keep. :-)
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt(a)softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
, but I can't see how you're supposed to clear the screen on a vt100 in
2.9BSD. I guess printf'ing ("\033c") would do the trick, but I assumed
there was a more proper way; something that leverages the vt100 termcap
entry and does the right thing. Anyone?
thx
jake
Evening all,
Am I correct in my guess that 4.4BSD was built cross on an HP300? I have
never found a binary dist of anything other than HP300 4.4...and my
attempts to build 4.4 on ULTRIX/SunOS have so far not succeeded...it had
to have been built SOMEHOW.
I picked up an HP300 to help me get somewhere...but it seems to only have
a 68010. :(
I either need to find a definitive 68020-minimum one on ebay...someone
with one available...or some tips of actually cross-building 4.4 for MIPS
or SPARCv7 (I have physical hardware for either)
I am very determined to run pure 4.4 on something bigger than a PIC32. ;)
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
> From: Mary Ann Horton <mah(a)mhorton.net>
> I loved my Ambassador!
Ditto!
> Still have one.
Argh! Now you've made me want one for my vintage -11's! Alas, I don't see one
on eBay.... :-(
Noel
The information give is correct. You could possibly argue that you
shouldn't be using those functions, but should be using the curses(3)
library instead, which in turn uses this stuff... But it's all up to how
complex you want to be. :-)
Johnny
On 2014-12-31 07:16, Jacob Ritorto<jacob.ritorto(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Mary, this is exactly what I needed -- good to go now; thank you!
>
> As a side note: Man, what an intimidating can of braindamage I've opened!:)
>
> thanks all!
> jake
>
> P.S. if anyone's bored enough, you can check out what we're up to at
> https://github.com/srphtygr/dhb. I'm trying to get my 11yo kid to spend a
> little time programming rather than just playing video games when he's near
> a computer. He'a actually getting through this stuff and is honestly
> interested when he understands it and sees it work -- and he even spotted a
> bug before me this afternoon! Feel free to raise issues, pull requests,
> etc. if you like -- I'm putting him through the git committing and pair
> programming paces, so outside interaction would be kinda fun:)
>
> P.P.S. We're actually using 2.11bsd after all..
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 9:33 PM, Mary Ann Horton<mah(a)mhorton.net> wrote:
>
>> >This is the right info. Be sure to scroll up to see how to use tgetent,
>> >tgetstr, and tputs. You aren't likely to need any padding.
>> >
>> >Essentially:
>> > tgetent using getenv("TERM") gets you the whole entry from
>> >/etc/termcap
>> > tgetstr of "cl" gets you the "clear"
>> >sequence
>> > tputs outputs the "clear"
>> >sequence
>> >
>> >
>> >On 12/30/2014 06:22 PM, Dan Stromberg wrote:
>> >
>>> >>Check outhttps://www.gnu.org/software/termutils/manual/termcap-1.3/
>>> >>html_mono/termcap.html#SEC30
>>> >>- especially the "cl" entry.
>>> >>
>>> >>ISTR the database being at /etc/termcap normally.
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt(a)softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
This was brought to my attention on another mailing list.
"Marking a new chapter for one of the country’s most architecturally
and historically significant buildings, Somerset Development has
announced a new name for the iconic former Bell Labs complex in
Holmdel, N.J. The two-million-square-foot building – now named Bell
Works – is currently undergoing a more than $100-million adaptive
reuse redevelopment that will transform the facility into a dynamic
mixed-use center.”
http://patch.com/new-jersey/holmdel-hazlet/somerset-development-unveils-bel…http://bell.works/
> From: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org>
> a 9-track tape followed me home, but even if I knew where it was now it
> ain't gonna be readable after over 30 years...
Umm, don't be too sure!
I have several sets of backup tapes from one of the V6 machines at MIT, and
those are also roughly 30 years old, and they are not in the best shape (they
sat in my basement for most of that time). I sent one off to someone who
specializes in reading old tapes, and he's gotten almost all the bits off of
it (a few records had unrecoverable read errors, but the vast majority were
OK - like roughly 15 read errors in around 1500 records).
So do look for that tape (unless the material is all already online).
I hope to annouce a vast trove of stuff soon from my tapes (once I figure out
how to interpret the bits - they are written by a sui generis application
called 'saveRVD', and the _only_ documentation of how it did it is... on that
tape! :-) That includes a lot of code written at MIT, as well as stuff
from elsewhere.
Coming sbould be BCPL, Algol, LISP and some other languages; MACRO-11 and the
DEC linker (which I guess are also available from UNSW tapes),but _also_
programs to convert back and forth from .REL to a.out format, and to .LDA
format; and a whole ton of other applications (I have no idea what all is
there - if anyone is interested, I can make a pass through my manuals and try
and make a list).
Noel
I've seen a couple of less than flattering references here; what was the
problem with them?
At UNSW, we couldn't afford the DH-11, so ended up with the crappy DJ-11
instead (the driver for the DH-11 had the guts ripped out of it in an
all-nighter by Ian Johnston as I recall), and when the DZ-11 came along we
thought it was the bees' knees.
Sure, the original driver was as slow as hell, but the aforesaid IanJ
reworked it and made it faster by at least 10x; amongst other things, I
think he did away with the character queues and used the buffer pool
instead, getting 9600 on all eight channels simultaneously, possibly even
full-duplex.
--
Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU) "Bliss is a MacBook with a FreeBSD server."
http://www.horsfall.org/spam.html (and check the home page whilst you're there)
> From: Clem Cole
A few comments on aspects I know something of:
> BTW: the Arpanet was not much better at the time
The people at BBN might disagree with you... :-)
But seriously, throughout its life, the ARPANET had 'load-dependent routing',
i.e. paths were adjusted not just in response to links going up or down, but
depending on load (so that traffic would avoid loaded links).
The first attempt at this (basically a Destination-Vector algorithm, i.e. like
RIP but with non-static per-hop costs) didn't work too well, for reasons I
won't get into unless anyone cares. The replacement, the first Link-State
routing algorithm, worked much, much, better; but it still had minor issues
damping fixed most of those too).
> DH11's which were a full "system unit"
Actually, two; they were double (9-slot, I guess?) backplanes.
> The MIT guys did ARP for ChaosNet which quickly migrated down the street
> to BBN for the 4.1 IP stack.
Actually, ARP was jointly designed by David Plummer and I for use on both
TCP/IP and CHAOS (which is why it has that whole multi-protocol thing going);
we added the multi-hardware thing because, well, we'd gone half-way to making
it totally general by adding multi-protocol support, so why stop there?
As soon as it was done it was used on a variety of IP-speaking MIT machines
that were connected to a 10MBit Ethernet; I don't recall them all, but one
kind was the MIT C Gateway multi-protocol routers.
> Hey it worked just fine at the time.
For some definition of 'work'! (Memories of wrapping protocol A inside
protocol B, because some intervening router/link didn't support protocol A,
only B...)
Noel
Hi all,
Wanting to set up an 11/34 or 11/23 with a unix that's at least
contemporary enough to run telnet and ftp. From what I can gather on line,
I guess 2.10 is the best shot, but it's apparently a little less popular
and I can't fin enough docs about it to determine if it'll run with the
hardware I have. Am I on the right track here, or should I be considering
backporting the programs to 2.9? Pointers to 2.10 Setup manual would be
most welcome as well as suggestions on where to find other resources to
meet this goal..
thx
jake
