TUHS

tuhs@tuhs.org

29 participants
6557 discussions

by Arthur Krewat

https://www.ebay.com/str/Zees-Fine-Finds A few old DEC boards/modules. I don't think there's anything PDP-11 related, but figured someone on this mailing list might find something interesting. art k.

6 years, 8 months

Test e-mail: minnie upgrade

by Warren Toomey

All, I just upgraded minnie to Ubuntu 18.08 LTS. This is just a test e-mail to confirm that the mailing list software is stil working. Cheers, Warren

6 years, 8 months

Re: [TUHS] 2.9bsd with networking on 18-bit possible?

by Paul Ruizendaal

> The journey is documented here: > http://1587660.websites.xs4all.nl/cgi-bin/9995/timeline > > The network code is in a different tree, I'll move it over to the above tree over the weekend. Posted the network bit in the online repo; it's in the v6net directory. Also fixed the instability - it is quite satisfying to login to v6 from a 'nc' client on modern hardware. However, I also found that the BBN code from November 1981 is what is says on the can: beta. I'll move to the October 1982 code when I find some time. Paul PS, this is the 'server' that nc connects to: #define unchar unsigned char #define netaddr unsigned long #include "con.h" #include <stdio.h> #include <string.h> unsigned long ipaddr(w,x,y,z) int w,x,y,z; { unsigned long ip; ip = w; ip = (ip<<8)|x; ip = (ip<<8)|y; ip = (ip<<8)|z; return ip; } struct con con; void child(fd) int fd; { close(0); dup(fd); close(1); dup(fd); close(2); dup(fd); close(fd); execl("/bin/sh", "[net-sh]", 0); } main() { int i, n, sd; con.c_mode = CONTCP; con.c_fcon = ipaddr(192,168,1,114); con.c_lcon = ipaddr(172,16,0,2); con.c_fport = 0; con.c_lport = 4000; sd = open("/net", &con); printf("Connected\n", sd); child(sd); close(sd); }

6 years, 8 months

Original Space Traveller source

by Sijmen J. Mulder

Hi all, A Reddit user is asking about Space Traveller: >I am an OpenBSD user and am interested in finding the original source code for Ken Thompson's Space Traveller. I have been searching the web for sometime now, but have sadly come up empty handed. Does anyone here by chance know where I could find a copy of it's source code? I am wanting to port it over to OpenBSD as a thank you to it's helpful and welcoming community.

6 years, 8 months

Re: [TUHS] 2.9bsd with networking on 18-bit possible?

by Paul Ruizendaal

> > the code size is about 25KB for both a minimal V6 kernel and the TCP > > stack, the rest is data. > > That's impressively small; the MIT V6+ with 'demux only in the kernel' was > 40KB for the combined code (although I can't easily get separate figures for > the networking part and the rest). I think my sentence was confusing: it is ~25KB each, so about 50KB combined. The original V6 kernel was about 29KB (says here https://www.tuhs.org//cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=V6) I've simplified the TTY driver, only support one type of disk driver, dropped shared text segments, dropped FP emulation. Remains about 25KB. Note that the SLIP is merely via a "super RAW" mode on the TTY driver, so I don't need to include the bulky IMP interface driver. Even at 30KB, the V6 kernel must have offered the best bang/buck ratio in the history of software, imho. > > The Gurwitz code also has an Ethernet driver (note ARP was not invented > > yet) > > How did it get Ethernet addresses? :^) See here: https://www.tuhs.org//cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=BBN-Vax-TCP/bbnnet/netconf.c "Someday this will be generated from the configuration file." I think later it did, but I don't have that code. > > a project to make V6 run ... on a TI990 clone > > Oh, about the basic part of this: did you start with a plain V6 distribution? > So you've had to do all the machine language stuff from scratch (and modify > things in C like estabur())? > What are you using for a C compiler ? Is there one out there, or did you have > to do your own? I has been a journey. I started with the 2.11BSD compiler and ported that to the TI990 architecture (more precisely the 9995 chip, which is similar to a T11 chip). I debugged that to make XINU run, and then moved on to LSX (as recovered by the BK-UNIX project). Then I started with the V6 kernel from the TUHS website and made that work. Dave Pitts made it work on a real TI990 (he has a TI990/10 and a TI990/12 in working order). So, yes, I did bootstrap all the low level stuff from scratch. After a three year hiatus I resumed work on this, integrating the Gurwitz TCP stack. The journey is documented here: http://1587660.websites.xs4all.nl/cgi-bin/9995/timeline The network code is in a different tree, I'll move it over to the above tree over the weekend. Paul

6 years, 8 months

Re: [TUHS] 2.9bsd with networking on 18-bit possible?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Paul Ruizendaal > a project to make V6 run ... on a TI990 clone Oh, about the basic part of this: did you start with a plain V6 distribution? So you've had to do all the machine language stuff from scratch (and modify things in C like estabur())? What are you using for a C compiler ? Is there one out there, or did you have to do your own? > In my setup, network connectivity is via a SLIP interface. Yeah, that's probably the way to go, to start with. Noel

6 years, 8 months

Re: [TUHS] 2.9bsd with networking on 18-bit possible?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Paul Ruizendaal > project to make V6 run with the Gurwitz TCP stack on a TI990 clone > (which is pretty similar to a PDP11). Neat! > the code size is about 25KB for both a minimal V6 kernel and the TCP > stack, the rest is data. That's impressively small; the MIT V6+ with 'demux only in the kernel' was 40KB for the combined code (although I can't easily get separate figures for the networking part and the rest). > The Gurwitz code also has an Ethernet driver (note ARP was not invented > yet) How did it get Ethernet addresses? Noel

6 years, 8 months

2.9bsd with networking on 18-bit possible?

by Paul Ruizendaal

> I'm sure it's been attempted before, but would anyone be up to the > challenge of trying to get that going with networking on an > 18-bit-address-space pdp11? By coincidence I’m in the middle of a project to make V6 run with the Gurwitz TCP stack on a TI990 clone (which is pretty similar to a PDP11). It runs without separate I/D as two processes in about 100KB. The Gurwitz TCP stack was the reference implementation for the VAX that BBN did in 1981. It is in the THUS archive: https://minnie.tuhs.org//cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=BBN-Vax-TCP As documented in IEN168, the actual TCP processing happens in a separate kernel process, much like process 0 (swapper) in Unix itself. It turns out that the network process shares no data (other than the u struct) with the kernel proper and can be run in a separate address space. Just a few ’thunks’ are needed: open/read/write/close from the kernel to the TCP stack and sleep/wakeup in the other direction. A V6 Unix kernel runs in 48KB with buffers, the TCP stack with buffers needs about the same; both must remain resident - i.e. it ties up about 100KB of the 256KB core on a 18-bit machine. I suppose when using separate I/D it can run without thunks: the code size is about 25KB for both a minimal V6 kernel and the TCP stack, the rest is data. In my setup, network connectivity is via a SLIP interface. The Gurwitz code also has an Ethernet driver (note ARP was not invented yet), but I’m not using that. I’m happy to report that this 1981 tcp/ip code can still talk to current OSX and Linux machines. Just yesterday I got the setup working and I can run minimalist telnet connections etc. Alas it is not quite stable yet, it tends to crash after 5-10 minutes of use. The BBN reference implementation includes FTP and Telnet servers and clients which I think will still interoperate with current versions. As a final remark note that this BBN code uses an API that is almost unchanged from the API as used on NCP Unix. As compared to sockets this means that a listening connection is not a rendez-vous, but blocks until a connection is made (and then becomes an active connection, i.e. stops listening), and that there is no “select” type functionality.

6 years, 8 months

Re: [TUHS] 2.9bsd with networking on 18-bit possible?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Clem Cole > I could be mis remembering No... :-) > IIRC the original PTY driver goes back to the Rand and/or UofI for the > NCP. Yup. I found a pty.c in the NCP system, it's clearly the ancestor (comments match): https://minnie.tuhs.org//cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=SRI-NOSC/dmr/pty.c > I suspect BBN got it from the Bruce Borden's Rand distribution tape Or possibly indirectly; my copy of the NCP came from NOSC via SRI. In addition to the one above, there are also these: https://minnie.tuhs.org//cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=SRI-NOSC/dmr/misc/pty.c.ill https://minnie.tuhs.org//cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=SRI-NOSC/dmr/misc/pty.c.x Here: https://minnie.tuhs.org//cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=BBN-V6/dmr/pty.c is the BBN version, you can compare the them all. The MIT one is derived from the BBN one. > Named Piped were definiately a Rand-ism (they were originally called 'Rand Pipes') Well, _RAND_ called them 'ports': https://minnie.tuhs.org//cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=BBN-V6/doc/ipc/ports > But there were issues and somethings were not 100% until the UofI NCP; > which was the first really complete NCP for UNIX. Somewhere I found a document about the UofI code, I think they wrote it from scratch? Sorry, too lazy to look at it. See here: https://minnie.tuhs.org//cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=SRI-NOSC for links. Noel

6 years, 8 months

Re: [TUHS] 2.9bsd with networking on 18-bit possible?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

PS: > IIRC, outbound packets are copied into kernel buffers IDRC; according to the documentation, outbound packets are DMA'd directly from user memory. I have yet to read the code to verify this. > we must have added PTY's of some sort There is indeed a PTY driver; it has comments from BBN'ers who edited it, so perhaps we got it from BBN. > I don't remember which one SMTP used. The 'simple' TCP. > The whole thing worked _really_ well. Alas, I don't think anyone else > picked up on it. So I found a long list of people we sent tapes to. Oh well.... > The kernel code is not that large, it should even run on a /40, without > overlays (although the number of disk buffers would probably get hit). Well, maybe... Here is the output of 'size' on the last Unix image for that machine: 40560+3098+44594 It was a /45, so split I/D (no overlays, though). How much could be trimmed out of that, I'm not sure. Noel

6 years, 8 months

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TUHS