TUHS

tuhs@tuhs.org

47 participants
6502 discussions

by Grant Taylor

One of the things that I've noticed in my explorations into the H.J. Lu bootable root disks is that some of them predate the /sbin split in Linux. One of them has exactly one file in /sbin and other commands spread across /bin, /usr/bin, and /etc. The single file in /sbin is sln. To me, this makes it fairly self evident that /sbin was originally for statically linked binaries. At least in Linux. Does anyone have any history of /sbin from other traditional Unixes? I'd be quite interested in learning more. I also noticed that (at least) one of the early versions of the H.J. Lu disks had root's home directory in /usr/root. I seem to recall that one version used an atypical of /users vs /usr. Which as I understand it, goes back to the original / vs /usr split in Unix, before /home became a thing. -- Grant. . . . unix || die

4 years, 3 months

Re: [TUHS] bas(1) and bs(1) videos including features and use

by M Douglas McIlroy

Nice archaeology. Blinded by my distaste for Basic , I never bothered to try bs--and should have. Dave has highlighted features that deserve respect. One telling example suggests this should be legalized in C: printf("%s\n", {"true", "false"}[1]); Doug

4 years, 3 months

Troff to ps

by Will Senn

All, So... I've moved on from v7 to 2.11bsd - shucks, vi and tar and co. just work there and everything else seems to be similar enough for what I'm interested in anyway. So yay, I won't be pestering y'all about vi anymore :). One the other hand, now I'm interested in printing the docs. 2.11bsd comes with docs in, of all places, /usr/doc. In there are makefiles for making the docs - ok, make nroff will make ascii docs, and troff will make troff? docs using Ossana's 'original' troff. So, after adding -t to it so it didn't complain about 'typesetter busy', I got no errors. I mounted a tape, tar'ed my .out file and untar'ed it on my macbook (did it for the nroff and troff output). Then I hit the first snag, groff -Tps -ms troff.out > whatever.ps resulted in cannot adjust line and cannot break line errors and groff -Tps -ms nroff.out > whatever.ps resulted in a bunch of double vision. I seem to recall doing this in v6 and it working ok (at least for nroff). My questions: 1. Is there a troff to postcript conversion utility present in a stock 2.11 system (or even patch level 4xx system)? 2. Is there a way to build postscript directly on the system? 3. Is there an alternative modern way to get to ps or pdf output from the nroff/troff that 2.11 has? I'm still digging into the nroff stuff as that may be just minor diffs between ancient nroff macros and "modern" macros or even just errors (.sp -2 rather than .sp or .sp -1, .in -2 instead of .in +2), etc. Although, the files display ok in 2.11bsd using nroff -ms nroff.out... Thanks, Will -- GPG Fingerprint: 68F4 B3BD 1730 555A 4462 7D45 3EAA 5B6D A982 BAAF

4 years, 3 months

Re: [TUHS] tangential unix question: whatever happened to NeWS?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Norman Wilson > You get a good deal and support a worthwhile small business (not just > ABE but the individual selling shop) at the same time. ABE isn't a small business (any more); Amazon bought them a couple of years ago. Biblio (https://www.biblio.com/) is the same basic thing ("more than 6500 independent book stores"), but independent. There's also Alibris (https://www.alibris.com/) but I like Biblio's site better; YMMV. Noel

4 years, 3 months

Re: [TUHS] tangential unix question: whatever happened to NeWS?

by Norman Wilson

Nemo Nusquam: Borenstein wrote a book ("Programming as if people mattered: Friendly Programs, Software Engineering, and Other Noble Delusions") in which he mused about W and X and Andrew. (A very nice read but horribly expensive -- fortunately I bought it when PUP had reasonably priced paperbacks.) ====== abebooks.com is your friend here. I just bought a used paperback copy for about USD 15 including shipping to Canada. There are others of similar price. Shipping to the US is probably a little cheaper. There's at least one copy available from a seller in the UK as well (and doubtless some from other countries if you dig further in the listings). For those who don't know, ABE is a central place for independent booksellers, including used-book shops, to sell online. You get a good deal and support a worthwhile small business (not just ABE but the individual selling shop) at the same time. Norman Wilson Toronto ON

4 years, 3 months

David Tilbrook, RIP 2021-01-15

by Greg A. Woods

Since nobody seems to have mentioned his passing yet, I thought I might. David Tilbrook died (from complications of COVID-19) in the early hours of January 15, 2021. He had been in long term care in Toronto for just over a year. His web site remains up and running for now at http://qef.com/ though I don't know for how long that may last. -- Greg A. Woods <gwoods(a)acm.org> Kelowna, BC +1 250 762-7675 RoboHack <woods(a)robohack.ca> Planix, Inc. <woods(a)planix.com> Avoncote Farms <woods(a)avoncote.ca>

4 years, 3 months

The terminal, the console, and the shell - what are they?

by Will Senn

All, I came across this note on vermaden's valuable news blog and thought y'all might enjoy it - it's not pure unix, but it's got a lot of crossover. The history is interesting and to us relative newbs, informative. I can't confirm its accuracy on the history side of things, but I'm sure you can :). http://unixsheikh.com/articles/the-terminal-the-console-and-the-shell-what-… Later, Will

4 years, 3 months

Re: [TUHS] System V Release 2, adding swap?

by Jason Stevens

SIMH has 3b2 emulation... Much of the work was documented here: https://loomcom.com/3b2/emulator.html <https://loomcom.com/3b2/emulator.html> -----Original Message----- From: Henry Bent [SMTP:henry.r.bent@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 12:05 AM To: Arnold Robbins Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Subject: Re: [TUHS] System V Release 2, adding swap? On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 at 11:02, Arnold Robbins < arnold(a)skeeve.com <mailto:arnold@skeeve.com> > wrote: Hi. Does anyone know how to add swap space on a System V Release 2 system? In particular, on an emulated AT&T 3B1. The kernel is S5R1 or S5R2 vintage. I don't see any commands with 'swap' in their names. A little bit of Google Groups trawling turned up this: https://groups.google.com/g/comp.sys.att/c/8XLILI3K8-Y/m/VxVMJNdt9NQJ <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.sys.att/c/8XLILI3K8-Y/m/VxVMJNdt9NQJ> But I don't have one of those systems, so I have no way to verify. -Henry

4 years, 3 months

Re: [TUHS] Three-quarters to the next Epoch

by John Foust

At 03:46 PM 1/23/2021, Dave Horsfall wrote: >Sent to me from a fellow weirdo... > >At 19:25:36 AEDT (00:25:36 UTC), Unix time reached 0x60000000. We're three quarters of the way to 2038... That was January 14, 2021, right? https://www.epochconverter.com/hex - John

4 years, 3 months

System V Release 2, adding swap?

by Arnold Robbins

Hi. Does anyone know how to add swap space on a System V Release 2 system? In particular, on an emulated AT&T 3B1. The kernel is S5R1 or S5R2 vintage. I don't see any commands with 'swap' in their names. Thanks, Arnold

4 years, 3 months

Favorite unix design principles?

by Tyler Adams

I'm writing about my 5 favorite unix design principles on my blog this week, and it got me wondering what others' favorite unix design principles are? For reference, mine are: - Rule of Separation (from TAOUP <http://catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/html/> ) - Let the Machine Do the Dirty Work (from Elements of Programming Style) - Rule of Silence (from TAOUP <http://catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/html/>) - Data Dominates (Rob Pike #5) - The SPOT (Single Point of Truth) Rule (from TAOUP <http://catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/html/>) Tyler

4 years, 3 months

Re: [TUHS] Fwd: Choice of Unix for 11/03 and 11/23+ Systems

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Paul Riley > Is LSX the only option on the 11/03, or could I run V6 or Mini-Unix with > more RAM? All PDP-11 Unix versions from V4 on require the MMU, so the -11/03 is out for them. We don't have the code for V2-V4, though. So V1 (mostly all assembler, no C :-), LSW and Mini-Unix are the only options for it. V6 can be run on an -11/23 (I've done it), but not straight out of the box; it requires a few minor tweaks first: http://gunkies.org/wiki/Running_UNIX_V6_on_an_-11/23 Noel

4 years, 3 months

Re: [TUHS] Apollo/token-ring networks

by Ed Carp

On 1/24/21, Jon Steinhart <jon(a)fourwinds.com> wrote: > So I never liked Apollos much. What I was referring to was Apollo's claim > that their token-ring network performed better for large numbers of nodes. > And they were correct. However, they didn't consider the eventually > invention of switches that solved the problem. A problem that shouldn't have ever been there in the first place. When I was at EDS, we did a lot of benchmarks against token-ring vs. CSMA-CD. Token-ring was slower than CSMA-CD until the traffic got to be more than about 10% of capacity - then the collision detection exponential backoff algorithm would clobber the network. The argument that "well, we will never get above that anyway, so we want the fastest we can get" sort of short-sightedness won the day. It wasn't until switches and virtual LANs came into existence that (as you said) solved the problem.

4 years, 3 months

Three-quarters to the next Epoch

by Dave Horsfall

Sent to me from a fellow weirdo... At 19:25:36 AEDT (00:25:36 UTC), Unix time reached 0x60000000. We're three quarters of the way to 2038... Stock up on food, load dem guns, and batten down the hatches :-) -- Dave

4 years, 4 months

bas(1) and bs(1) videos including features and use

by Dave Plonka

Hi folks, In case you're interested: I've published a couple videos on these ancient Unix tools, sharing including some language details and showing them in action on v7 and System III, respectively: Ken Thompson's bas(1): https://youtu.be/LZUMNZTUJos Dick Haight's bs(1): https://youtu.be/ELICIa3L22o Thanks much for the help from TUHS, Mashey, Kernighan, McIlroy, and others cited therein. Peace, Dave -- dave(a)plonka.us http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~plonka/

4 years, 4 months

ACM Fellow, Ken Thompson

by Royce Williams

Congratulations to Ken Thompson, the newly-minted ACM Fellow: https://awards.acm.org/award_winners/thompson_4588371 (It seemed of historical interest, and therefore on-topic. :) ) -- Royce

4 years, 4 months

Happy Birthday to Marshall Kirk McKusick

by Caipenghui

Thank you for your work to make the world a better, happy birthday to you. God bless us. #define FS_UFS2_MAGIC 0x19540119 Caipenghui

4 years, 4 months

Re: [TUHS] Bearded Fellow, Ken Thompson

by Norman Wilson

Dave Horsfall: At one place I worked, every Unix bod sported facial fungus; it must be a Unix thing... ==== Not really. I've seen bare faces and beards and operating systems over the decades that would scare the bugs out of any of the above beards and operating systems. There really isn't a lot of consistency. I've known plenty of bare-faced UNIX hacks, and plenty of RSX and VMS and Windows and IBM programmers who hide their embarrassment behind beards. The ultimate reference is, of course, the inhabitants of the UNIX Room. During my time there in mid-to-late 1980s, some people wore beards, some didn't. I have never seen Ken or Dennis or Brian clean-shaven, but I have never seen Doug or Rob or Tom Duff or Lorinda with a beard. And despite a certain remark attributed to the late Vic Vyssotsky (who I've never seen with a beard either), I am quite sure that my appearance had nothing to do with my being recruited by the group. Norman `too lazy to shave' Wilson Toronto ON

4 years, 4 months

EGREG

by norman＠oclsc.org

Andrew Hume (dammit andrew): i have probed recently about the origins of the bEGREGb (its all greg cession's fault) error in Research Unix. alas, i recall nothing about this, and can't recall ever getting the message. === Your memory fails you, which is not unreasonable for stuff you probably haven't thought about in more than 30 years: /* SCSI Pass-Thru driver for the TD Systems UD? -- Andrew Hume Ninth Edition Unix */ [...] scsiwrite(dev) dev_t dev; { register count; register struct scsi *p = &scsi[minor(dev)]; register struct mscmd *cmd = &p->junk->cmd.msg; unsigned char flag, bus_id; if(p->flag&NEXTWR) p->flag &= ~NEXTWR; else { u.u_error = EGREG; return; } As I remember it, EGREG went into errno.h and libc out of a desire to have some never-normally-used error to be returned when debugging. I forget just who was in the UNIX Room conversation that created it; almost certainly I was. I thought andrew was as well; very likely one or more of andrew td presotto. I do remember being a bit annoyed at Andrew for putting it in permanent use in the raw-SCSI driver (which was at the time of interest mainly to Andrew for controlling an early optical-disc jukebox, used by the original File Motel backup system). As to the origin of `It's all Greg's fault' as a meme, that was already around and established when I arrived at the Labs in mid-1984, though Greg himself had already moved west. Maybe Doug or Ken remembers how that started. Andrew himself was responsible for or blamed by more than one meme of the days. The scsi driver spawned one, in fact: the first attempt used a SCSI interface from Emulex, which never worked quite right, and despite repeated phone calls to Emulex Andrew could never get it figured out. He tried and tried, though, and his attempts spawned the catch phrase `Time to call Emulex again!' Norman Wilson Toronto ON

4 years, 4 months

sam leffler, rob pike

by Andrew Hume

an urgent request: can someone please send me sam leaflet’s email address? its needed for a funeral (dave tilbrook just died). also, rob pike, can you send me your email please? (these are for tilbrook’s son.)

4 years, 4 months

EGREG

by Andrew Hume

i have probed recently about the origins of the “EGREG” (its all greg cession’s fault) error in Research Unix. alas, i recall nothing about this, and can’t recall ever getting the message. however, courtesy of Dave Presotto (i am fairly sure), there was an equivalent error in Plan 9, where more or less randomly, if your user id was ‘andrew’, system calls would fail. and yes, i did feel special; this was one of my lesser contributions to Plan 9. this stopped after a while (several to many months, maybe). andrew hume

4 years, 4 months

Fwd: Writer's Workbench on Plan 9/9front

by Stanley Lieber

fyi -------- Original Message -------- From: joel(a)sirjofri.de Sent: January 13, 2021 11:30:31 AM EST To: sl(a)stanleylieber.com Subject: Writer's Workbench on Plan 9/9front Hello TUHS, I don't know if that mail arrives since I'm not subscribed to the tuhs mailing list. I just thought this might be interesting to some of you, especially since I noticed there are some threads about the writer's workbench. Some weeks ago I started porting V10 wwb tools to 9front (which is a fork of Plan 9). I have still many things to do and currently only limited time, but the greater tools (style, diction and suggest) work. Most code worked fine, btw, only minor changes needed. Especially implicit C declarations and missing #includes. Comparison with the original code in the archive is possible. I also tried porting (or rewriting) the shell scripts in rc, and made mkfiles that better fit the Plan 9 build systems. I also included acme commands, they also translate the locations into the plumber format for the files (filename:line). Here's a link to the git repository (yes, we have a native git implementation now): https://git.sr.ht/~sirjofri/wwb9 sirjofri

4 years, 4 months

The 2038 bug...

by Dave Horsfall

As the new year is about to kick in (down-under anyway), it got me to thinking (always dangerous): how many here will be around for it to pick up the pieces that are no doubt still lying around? I'll be about the ripe old age of 85, so I may be around to see the Imminent Death of the Internet (Film at 11). 2100? Forget it... Too bad, as "Revolt in 2100 (?)" is one of my favourite Heinlein books. Others? -- Dave

4 years, 4 months

History of the UNIX Beard

by Tyler Adams

We all know and love the UNIX beard, but I can't find anything on how the beards started other than an old photo of Ken and Dennis with majestic manes. And, to make the question a bit more meta, what's the history of the joke of the "UNIX beard"? Tyler

4 years, 4 months

Re: [TUHS] Question

by Rudi Blom

>From output of 'what' on /bin/sh in SCO UNIX 3.2V4.2 - spname.c 23.2 91/02/21 Cheers, uncle rubl >Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2021 03:39:16 -05 >From: Norman Wilson <norman(a)oclsc.org> >To: tuhs(a)tuhs.org >Subject: Re: [TUHS] Question >Message-ID: <1610181560.23999.for-standards-violators(a)oclsc.org> > >Rob Pike, re the spelling corrector in V8 and later Research >versions of sh: > > That was done by Tom Duff, I believe before he came to Bell Labs. I might > have brought the idea with me from Toronto. > >Very likely, since you left it behind at Caltech as well; it was >in sh on cithep (a hostname meaningless to many but rob will remember) >when I arrived in 1980. > >It was in the version of p you left behind there as well. > >I can confirm that spname remained in the shell through V10 >(it's still in my copy), but it seems to have disappeared from p. > >Norman Wilson >Toronto ON

4 years, 4 months

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TUHS