TUHS

tuhs@tuhs.org

6 participants
6532 discussions

by wkt＠csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au

----- Forwarded message from Don Kabuss ----- Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:22:36 -0600 From: kabussdr(a)SLUVCA.SLU.EDU (Don Kabuss) Subject: PDP-11 To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au Hello Warren, My name is Don. I visited your webpage today about the "PDP-11 UNIX Preservation Society". Although I'm not inclined to participate, I am however the proud owner of a DEC PDP-11/04. It is complete except for a dumb terminal/ keyboard. It is mounted in two 6 1/2 foot tall steel racks it includes a dual 8" floppy drives with unopened boxes of new 8" disks, one 12" cartridge removable hard drive with 6 cartridges, one 12" reel to reel mass storage tape drive, power supply, supportive hardware and all cabling. Also there is an 18" medium speed drum printer in a sound proof encloser. No it's not for sale. However, I would like to give it away. Obviously it is very heavy and there is no way I could ship it. I would like to know if there is a member of this Society somewhere in the mid-west ( close to St. Louis, Missouri,USA ) that might be interested in having it just for coming to get it? The unit was fully functional when I removed the dumb terminal to use in another application, so it's not just "junk". This unit is mine and not property of the University that I'm affiliated with. I hope this may serve a common interest. Thanks Don. ----- End of forwarded message from Don Kabuss -----

28 years, 5 months

Weird TS05 gotcha

by Tom I Helbekkmo

I just wanted to share an interesting experience that might save someone else some time if the occasion should arise... I've got a Q4 cabinet with two BA23s in the middle, an RA81 below them and a TS05 tape station on top. It's had a KA630 (a MicroVAX II, that is) CPU running VAX/VMS, Ultrix and 4.3BSD-Reno before, and the TS05 has always behaved perfectly. Just recently, I reconfigured this box with a MicroPDP-11/73 (a great little system: two RD54s, twin RX50s, TK50 and TS05, DELQA, DHQ11 and the RA81), and was dismayed to find that my trusty old 9 track tape station no longer worked! After several, unsuccessful attempts to get some (too) old diagnostic software to work, I put the KA630 back in, and ran MDM, the MicroVAX Diagnostic Monitor. The tape station checked out perfectly. Back in went the 11/73 -- sure enough, it didn't work. Experimenting showed that I could fsf, bsf rewind and stat the tape station with mt all I wanted, but I couldn't read nor write. The controller always gave an illegal address error, which the manual says is what happens when you use it in a 22 bit qbus while it's configured for 18 bit operation. Of course, that couldn't be for real, right? I mean, the KA630 is a 22 bit system, and it worked on that with several operating systems! Still, it doesn't hurt to check, so I pulled the controller. Yup, it was set to 18 bit mode. Flipped it to 22, turned on buffering at the same time -- and I now have a fast, dependable 1600bpi 9 track again! If anyone can explain how this thing worked in the first place, I'd appreciate it! (Oh, and if anyone has some hints for this youngster about the proper care and feeding of my TS05 as the years go by, that would come in very handy as well!) (Heck, while I'm asking all this, an RK05 with qbus controller and a few packs would be great, too, and would go real well with this old /23 I've got sitting here!) -tih -- Popularity is the hallmark of mediocrity. --Niles Crane, "Frasier"

28 years, 6 months

Simulator 2.2d release with demonstration software (fwd)

by wkt＠csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au

[You must read this! Warren] ----- Forwarded message from Bob Supnik ----- From: Bob Supnik <bob.supnik(a)ljo.dec.com> Subject: Simulator 2.2d release with demonstration software Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:56:40 -0500 This notice is being posted today in relevant Usenet conferences. Thanks for your help in reaching a major milestone! Computer History Simulators V2.2d: Release Notes V2.2d is a major release of the simulators for the Computer History project. It includes simulators for: - Data General Nova - Digital Equipment Corporation PDP-8 - Digital Equipment Corporation PDP-11 - Digital Equipment Corporation 18b PDP's (PDP-4, PDP-7, PDP-9, PDP-15) - IBM 1401 These simulators are freeware. They are intended for personal or educational use and are provided on an as-is basis. Support is not available, and commercial use is prohibited. See the documentation for debug status for each simulator. This release also includes demonstration software for the PDP-8, PDP-11, and Nova: - RDOS V7.5 for the Nova - OS/8 for the PDP-8 - UNIX V5, V6, and V7 for the PDP-11 The demonstration software is provided for personal, non-commercial use, under license from its current owners (Data General for RDOS, Digital Equipment Corporation for OS/8, and the Santa Cruz Operation for UNIX). Please be sure to read the license agreements before using or distributing the demonstration software. A copy of the appropriate license agreement(s) must be included with any copy of the demonstration software. I gratefully acknowledge the generous help and support of Data General Corporation, Digital Equipment Corporation, and the Santa Cruz Organization in making the demonstration software and supporting license agreements available. The simulator sources and documentation are contained in a compressed tar archive on the public FTP server ftp.digital.com: /pub/DEC/sim/sources/sim_2.2d.tar.Z The simulators have been tested under Digital UNIX, VAX VMS, Alpha VMS, and Intel Linux. A port to Windows 95/Windows NT is underway. Porting to other little-endian UNIX systems is straightforward, but porting to big-endian systems is not: data representations are endian dependent. The demonstration software and licenses are contained in multiple compressed tar archives on the public FTP server ftp.digital.com: /pub/DEC/sim/software/rdosswre.tar.Z - RDOS /pub/DEC/sim/software/os8swre.tar.Z - OS/8 /pub/DEC/sim/software/uv5swre.tar.Z - UNIX V5 /pub/DEC/sim/software/uv6swre.tar.Z - UNIX V6 /pub/DEC/sim/software/uv7swre.tar.Z - UNIX V7 (Very) cursory instructions for using the demonstration software are included in the simulator documentation. The simulator project includes many contributions. For a more detailed description of the simulator itself, and the many people who helped with it, please see the (forthcoming) December 96 issue of the Digital Technical Journal, which has an article on "Restoring Old Computers" by Max Burnet and Bob Supnik. YOU can contribute to the computer history project! The simulator is an open-ended framework, and contributions are welcome, such as: - further debuging of the existing simulators - additional peripherals for existing simulators - new software images for existing simulators - new simulators - terminal emulation routines for Windows 95/Windows NT - ports to other operating environments Please send your contributions to bob.supnik(a)ljo.dec.com. ----- End of forwarded message from Bob Supnik ----- >From Bob Supnik <bob.supnik(a)ljo.dec.com> Tue Dec 3 10:56:40 1996 Received: from rachael.franken.de (rachael.franken.de [193.175.24.38]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.6.13/8.3) with SMTP id FAA19177; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 05:12:21 +1100 Received: from <hub-n.franken.de> by rachael.franken.de with cbsmtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #8) id m0vVLcd-000oLsC; Wed, 4 Dec 96 19:00 MET Received: from mbsks.UUCP by hub-n.franken.de with UUCP (Smail3.1.28.1 #12) id m0vVL2G-000BzTC; Wed, 4 Dec 96 18:23 WET Received: by mbsks.franken.de (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #14) id m0vVKxM-000NS0C; Wed, 4 Dec 96 18:18 MET Message-Id: <m0vVKxM-000NS0C(a)mbsks.franken.de> From: m(a)mbsks.franken.de (Matthias Bruestle) Subject: Unix onto my new PDP-11 To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (oldunix) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:17:59 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mahlzeit I have here a PDP-11 which was used in a X-ray-"defractometer". There was no Boot-disks or documentation. Hardware: 3HE-19"-case (with a label VAXstation 3200) with an on/off-switch and 6 buttons. 5,25"-FDD 3,5"-HDD (probably ST-506-type) Fujitsu Model M2227D2 Type B03B-4815-B104A#B On the side to the disk/floppy there are unused connectors: Fixed Disk 0 (2 con.) Fixed Disk 1 (2 con.) Removable Disk 1&2 (1 con.) It has 3 modules: quad-size from Mentec with 4 connectors (serial ports) quad-size from MDB with 4 unused connectors dual-size from Dilog (connected to disk and floppy) Software: It is installed RT-11FB V5.04D. The output from resorc/a is: ------------------------------------------------------------- RT-11FB (S) V05.04 D Booted from DU0:RT11FB USR is set SWAP EXIT is set SWAP KMON is set NOIND TT is set QUIET ERROR is set ERROR SL is set OFF EDIT is set EDIT KMON nesting depth is 3 PDP 11/73A Processor 512KB of memory Floating Point Microcode Extended Instruction Set (EIS) Memory Management Unit Cache Memory 50 Cycle System Clock Memory parity support FPU support Device Status CSR Vector(s) ------ ------ --- --------- SL Installed 000000 000 FW Not installed 177170 264 LD 131520 000000 000 DY Not installed 177170 264 VM 132472 177572 250 SP Installed 000000 110 XL Installed 176500 300 304 DL Not installed 174400 160 DU Resident 172150 154 LS Installed 176510 310 314 NL Installed 000000 000 TT (Resident) = LP DU (Resident) DU0 = SY MQ (Resident) LD (Loaded) LD0 = DK SL VM (Loaded) SP XL LS NL 5 free slots Job Name Console Level State Low High Impure --- ---- ------- ----- ----- --- ---- ------ 0 RESORC 0 0 Run 000000 131510 134576 No multi-terminal support Address Module Words ------- ------ ----- 160000 IOPAGE 4096. 155636 DU 561. 133220 RMON 4743. 132464 VM 174. 131512 LD 245. 001000 ..BG.. 22693. LD0 is DU0:USER.DSK[50068.] = DK LD4 is DU0:USER.DSK[50068.] LD7 is DU0:PW.DSK[3000.] ------------------------------------------------------------- I got somehow a M70>-Prompt (after a @-Prompt) and booted it with DU<Return>. Can I make somehow a bootable floppy-backup? Is it supported by V7 or another UNIX? How big is the harddisk? What device/size is the floppy? DK? Is it possible to read/write these floppies with a PC? Is it possible to make UNIX-boot/install-floppies with an emulator and install with the UNIX on this PDP-11? What did I forget to ask? Thanks endergone Zwiebeltuete -- insanity inside >From "Robert Armstrong" <rarmstro(a)telesensory.com> Tue Dec 10 09:40:01 1996 Received: from dolphin (dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.5]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.6.13/8.3) with SMTP id JAA00108; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 09:01:12 +1100 Received: by dolphin (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA09361; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 08:59:56 +1100 Received: from netcomsv.netcom.com (uucp7.netcom.com) by csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA20100; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 11:15:54 +1100 Received: from telesens.UUCP by netcomsv.netcom.com with UUCP (8.6.12/SMI-4.1) id QAA19916; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 16:06:06 -0800 Received: by telesensory.com (UUPC/extended 1.12r) for wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au; Mon, 09 Dec 1996 15:40:01 -0800 Message-Id: <32aca351.telesens(a)telesensory.com> Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 15:40:01 -0800 From: "Robert Armstrong" <rarmstro(a)telesensory.com> To: wkt(a)csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: PUPS Membership Content-Type: text Sender: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au Microsoft Mail v3.0 (MAPI 1.0 Transport) IPM.Microsoft Mail.Note From: Armstrong, Robert To: 'wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au' Subject: PUPS Membership Date: 1996-12-09 15:36 Priority: 3 Message ID: C28C0656D851D0119D8400A02450680C Conversation ID: PUPS Membership ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Warren, I have a Micro-PDP 11/73 running 2_11BSD now, and a running 11/23+ system that I'd like to find a Unix for (currently it's running RT). The 11/23 lacks I&D space and therefore is unable to run 2_11BSD, and also it's severely handicapped because its largest disk a RL02. I also have a several other DEC non-Unix systems including a 11/730, a PDP-8/A, and too many VAXstation-2000s and 3100s to count. All run perfectly except the -8, which is my current project. I have a some UNIBUS and QBUS spares, and even a few OMNIBUS parts, and I'm always willing to trade with other collectors. I'm afraid I know very little about Unix, but I do have some experience with DEC hardware and would be happy to try and help out in this area. Please do not reply to this account - my home email address is bob(a)poco-adagio.santa-clara.ca.us Thanks, Bob Armstrong

28 years, 7 months

Results of PDP UNIX Source Questionnaire

by wkt＠csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au

All, The results of my PDP-11 UNIX source license quiz so far are available on the PUPS web page, http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/ If you haven't filled out the questionnnaire, please do so, as it gives me more ammunition to convince SCO to make licenses available. Get your friends, family & household pets to fill it out too :-) Most of the results were as I expected, although less people were happy with the single-user idea that I thought would be. Cheers, Warren

28 years, 8 months

PDP Unix Archive Down...

by wkt＠csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au

All, I accidentally shut down the PDP Unix ftp archive on henry.cs.adfa.oz.au yesterday, as it's my desktop PC and I temporarily forgot about its other uses. It should be back on again at 0000 GMT Monday. I've also got a new Pentium to replace the 486 which is henry, and I will cut over to the new machine sometime in the next two weeks, so if you are having any troubles ftp'ing stuff from this machine, please let me know. Cheers, Warren

28 years, 9 months

UNIX for my 11/34A

by m＠mbsks.franken.de

Mahlzeit OK. Now I have a RL01 image, which boots at least on the emu with the original rl1unix kernel. # mkfs /dev/rl1 9000 # dd if=/usr/mdec/rluboot of=/dev/rl1 count=1 # mount /dev/rl1 /mnt # df # rm -rf /usr/dicts /usr/src /usr/games /rkunix /usr/spool/uucppublic/ansi* # tar cf - .profile bin boot etc lib tmp usr | (cd mnt; tar xf -) # cp /rl1unix /mnt/unix # mkdir /mnt/mnt # mkdir /mnt/dev # cp /dev/makefile /mnt/dev # cd /mnt/dev # make # make rl # ln rl0 swap # cd /usr/sys/conf # cp rl1conf conf conf: remove last line (tm) m.h: uncomment "#define _1134" makefile: M = smch copied pk.p, stat.h and tty.h from other V7 source to /usr/sys/h # make unix # cp unix /mnt/nunix The selfmade kernel nunix doesn't boot. Did I something wrong? Should I adjust also other options in m.h or param.h to get better performance with 128kByte (not kWord) RAM? Thanks endergone Zwiebeltuete -- insanity inside

28 years, 10 months

Re: UNIX for my 11/34A

by pnt103＠ugrad.cs.york.ac.uk

My V7 has RL drivers, and AFAIR they're on my distribution tape, which has a 1980 date sticker on it (I think; it's not to hand). My 11/23 only has RL02s on it, and it was running V7 fine this morning :-) Pete

28 years, 10 months

Re: UNIX for my 11/34A

by m＠mbsks.franken.de

Mahlzeit > V7 _initially_ did *not* have RL02 support. When we got our first V7 > tape in 1979 a RL02 driver was written locally in ~79 or 80. So > unless someone added the RL0? support to V7 and submitted the updated > images to the archives it's doubtful RL devices can be used with V7. The V7 are RL02 images and include the RL drivers. > > One thing to note, the RL02 kernel comes with swap at the end of the > > RL02. You will need to rebuild a kernel so that the location and size of the > Quite right. The 'swaplo' global must agree with the partition table > wired into the driver or the system will end up swapping over top of > the root filesystem. *ick* ;) rl1conf: rl root rl 0 swap rl 0 swplo 9000 nswap 1240 tm I assume that means that the filesystem ist 9000 block long and the swap 1240 blocks. (-> mkfs /dev/rl1 9000) Until now I have the RL02 cleaned up, so it fits on a RL01, and made a filesystem on the RL01. Now I'm fighting with the emu. Mahlzeit endergone Zwiebeltuete -- insanity inside

28 years, 10 months

UNIX for my 11/34A

by m＠mbsks.franken.de

Mahlzeit My name is Matthias Bruestle and I'm new on this mailing list. I'm collecting old computers and have until now 34. I have a 11/34A with 128kB RAM, DL11-W and 2 RL01. I want to install UNIX on her. Because there are no RL01 disk images which I can use directly, I want to prepare one with a PDP-11 emulator. I got V6 to boot with the Supnik emulator, but noticed than that V6 has no support for RL01 drives. Does someone have RL01 drivers for V6 or must I use V7? The last step would be to download the image over the serial line. Is there allready a programm for RT-11SJ V4.00 which does this? Thanks for your help endergone Zwiebeltuete -- insanity inside

28 years, 10 months

Re: PDP Unix - how to load?

by wkt＠csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au

In atricle by Danny R. Brown: > 3.If Keith has not yet found a way to transfer files I have a set of > PD tape utilities which work quite well. As I recall I installed > TSXTCP (from shop.pdp.kent.edu) and FTP'd the files from my PC to my > 11/73, built the tapes with the aforementioned utilities (TK-50, but > I believe most any style will do), booted up and installed everything > in about three days. > > I'm sure that I posted a pointer to the ftp site for the tape utils > on this sig, or maybe e-mailed them to someone who requested. I'm > still not home much but drop me a line and I'll dig out the notes, > names, and etc., in the next few days... > cheers! Danny, I just looked thru the archive and, no, you didn't post any detais. So, would you drop a line with the info when you get back. Thanks again! Warren

28 years, 10 months

PDP Unix - how to load?

by wkt＠csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au

I'm forwarding this on from Keith Huff, who wants to know how to load the PDP UNIX images from henry onto a machine. As I've never used a PDP OS apart from Unix, can someone pass on trick and techniques to get tape or disk images from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au onto a PDP-11? Thanks, Warren ----- Forwarded message from kshuff(a)fast.net ----- From: kshuff(a)fast.net Subject: PDP Unix Hi Warren, I have visited your FTP site and have a question. The only piece of equipment I have connected to the net is a PC, so upon downloading a copy of Unix, how do I go about getting it over to the PDP, or do I have to have it connected to the net. If the latter, could you give me some guidance on how this would be accomplished. Thanks again. -Keith S. Huff ----- End of forwarded message from kshuff(a)fast.net ----- >From "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus(a)crl.com> Fri Aug 23 13:38:27 1996 Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.6.13/8.3) with SMTP id NAA07876; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 13:42:50 +0959 Received: from crl14.crl.com by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA23923 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>); Thu, 22 Aug 1996 20:41:44 -0700 Received: by crl14.crl.com id AA13195 (5.65c/IDA-1.5); Thu, 22 Aug 1996 20:38:28 -0700 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 20:38:27 -0700 (PDT) From: "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus(a)crl.com> To: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au> Cc: PDP Unix Preservation <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Re: PDP Unix - how to load? In-Reply-To: <9608120357.AA22166@dolphin> Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960822202356.12906A-100000(a)crl14.crl.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 12 Aug 1996, Warren Toomey wrote: > Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 13:57:30 +1000 (EST) > From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au> > To: PDP Unix Preservation <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au> > Subject: PDP Unix - how to load? > > I'm forwarding this on from Keith Huff, who wants to know how to load the > PDP UNIX images from henry onto a machine. As I've never used a PDP OS > apart from Unix, can someone pass on trick and techniques to get tape or > disk images from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au onto a PDP-11? > > Thanks, > Warren > ----- Forwarded message from kshuff(a)fast.net ----- > From: kshuff(a)fast.net > Subject: PDP Unix > Hi Warren, > > I have visited your FTP site and have a question. The only piece of > equipment I have connected to the net is a PC, so upon downloading a copy of > Unix, how do I go about getting it over to the PDP, or do I have to have it > connected to the net. If the latter, could you give me some guidance on how > this would be accomplished. Thanks again. > > -Keith S. Huff > ----- End of forwarded message from kshuff(a)fast.net ----- > Keith, Warren, et al..... 1.Sorry that I've been away from this SIG after such a hectic beginning last winter. I got sucked up in the Olympics here in Atlanta and am only now returning to "normal" life. You boys down under might invest in a good pair of hip boots- its coming your way ;-) 2.Thanks to all of you for your help in getting me up and running. 3.If Keith has not yet found a way to transfer files I have a set of PD tape utilities which work quite well. As I recall I installed TSXTCP (from shop.pdp.kent.edu) and FTP'd the files from my PC to my 11/73, built the tapes with the aforementioned utilities (TK-50, but I believe most any style will do), booted up and installed everything in about three days. I'm sure that I posted a pointer to the ftp site for the tape utils on this sig, or maybe e-mailed them to someone who requested. I'm still not home much but drop me a line and I'll dig out the notes, names, and etc., in the next few days... cheers! ************************************************************************* * A Personal Message from * BASILISK * * Danny R. Brown * "Try our other fine flavors!" * * ( sysyphus(a)crl.com ) * (404) 392-1691 * * Pager:(404)397-0516 * LYNC host mode * *************************************************************************

28 years, 11 months

PDP UNIX Licenses: Status Report

by wkt＠csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au

All, In my continuing quest to find out if PDP-11 UNIX licenses are available and how to get them, I've been chatting with Mike Tilson, a VP at SCO. I include his email below, with permission. The summary is that SCO don't have any licenses for PDP-11 UNIX; if you want a license, you should join an organisation with an existing UNIX source license so as to be covered by it. Cheers, Warren From: Michael Tilson <mike(a)sco.COM> Subject: Re: PDP-11 Unix Licenses? [The question posed to Mike was: could cheap PDP UNIX licenses be make available to people who don't have licenses?] As a former PDP-11 UNIX Fifth Edition user and systems programmer I'd personally be pleased to see this happen. There are some obstacles. The UNIX intellectual property has great value (SCO gave up nearly 20% of its equity plus future cash payments to obtain it.) The intellectual property traces back in unbroken lineage to PDP-11 UNIX. Source licensing has always been very carefully managed, as this deals with the core of the intellectual property. Even when source was licensed to universities "for free" there was a large agreement signed by a university corporate authority, and the agreement had teeth in it. The Lions book was something we all wanted to see published, but it still took considerable careful legal review, and that was just to publish the kernel plus a limited set of device drivers. The full source code (utilities, libraries, compilers, etc.) would be a bigger matter. (Example: I believe the algorithms in the "diff" command for optimal differencing are still unequaled in other commercial systems, despite their age.) And the later the version (e.g. Seventh Edition rather than Sixth Edition) the more concerned we would be. When Dion Johnson raised this matter internally a while back I commented that I'd like to see it happen, but that I understood all of the above concerns. I wondered at that time whether the task of resurrecting this historical item wasn't something that could be done in cooperation with universities who already possessed the appropriate source licenses. Would that method work for you? I note that you appear to be associated with the right sort of institution. So in summary I'd like to see this happen, I'll be helpful if I can, and I would caution that the probability is considerably lower than for the Lions book. Dion has been doing a good job of representing your interests, by the way. It sounds like all the interested parties are today associated with institutions that would allow them the necessary access for this history project. I've sometimes thought that I'd like to have a PDP-11/45 running the old UNIX myself. (The hardware can no doubt be found in some scrapyard, the trick is floorspace and power of course. Seems like a lot of effort to get a computer with two orders of magnitude less capacity than my laptop computer... :-)) Please make sure everyone understands that in principle we'd like to be helpful, but we're not dealing with a dead product, we're dealing with an earlier version of what is today a very much alive and growing product -- an intellectual asset of extremely high value. This means everyone moves very cautiously, as intellectual property law can be a minefield. There is no doubt that a license with enough teeth could be written, and if we had such a license the purpose would not be to charge historians or hobbiests a lot of money. The real obstacle is the care and effort that must go into creating a licensing program, and I think the business reality is that we're unlikely to have enough idle cycles available to create the program for you. (Not my department, though -- maybe Dion will be able to push it through, who knows?) // Michael Tilson, CIO // SCO, +1-408-429-4889

28 years, 11 months

Lions Book: Details from Peter Salus

by wkt＠csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au

All, Just got this information about the Lions commentary on v6 from Peter Salus: The ISBN for the Lions is (will be?) 1-57398-013-7. It will be $29.95 US. The distributor is International Thompson; the publisher is Peer-to-Peer Communications. Cheers, Warren

28 years, 11 months

Got Museum RK Format

by wkt＠csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au

All, I browsed thru the blocks on my `Museum Format' v6 disk image, and after a bit of work found a nice comment from the writers of the code: /* * Optimized RK-11/RK03/RK05/disk driver * * Copyright (c) 1975, the Children's Museum. * * [...] In this * format, block 0 is in its standard place so that * boot programs can be put there; blocks 1 through * NHRKBLK (2435) are located beginning at block #2436, * all remaining blocks are between block 1 & 2435. the * effect of this mapping is to centralize disk head motion * about the center of the disk. * the optimization is ideal for those RK's * which serve as both root device and swap device. It * is less than ideal, although probably still an * improvement over traditional form, for RK's used * exclusively as mounted file systems. So, after a bit of dd(1)ing, I had my two Museum Format v6 disk images into a form which could be read with a normal v6 system. Cheers, Warren

29 years

Boston Museum RK Format?

by wkt＠csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au

Hi all, I've just been looking thru the old tapes I have here from v6 Unix, and I think I've got two RK disk images which were laid out with the RK driver from the Boston Children's Museum. An old email from Kevin Hill says that the inodes are in the middle of the pack, rather than at the beginning. However, I don't know enough about the scheme to try and decode the files from the disk image. If anybody can help me out, could they email me back. I've got a program called `grab' that can extract files from v6 images, and I'd like to modify it to get the files from these `museum' disk images. Re: the stuff from SCO, Dion at SCO is talking to the legal guys, but I haven't heard anything as yet. Thanks in advance! Warren

29 years

Re: Good News re PDP Unix Licensing

by wkt＠csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au

In atricle by Tom I Helbekkmo: > On Fri, 28 Jun 1996, Warren Toomey wrote: > > Is there really any good reason for them to object to the distribution > of UNIXes prior to SVR1? Could there possibly be anything at all in > V7 and earlier that could in any way be damaging to SCO (or anyone > else who might buy UNIX from SCO) if it were freely distributed? If > I'm right in assuming that it couldn't possibly make a difference to > their bottom line, perhaps SCO could be convinced to formally release > these oldest versions of UNIX? I suggested to Dion that SCO would get kudos from the Unix community if they did. Haven't heard back from him yet (still Sunday there). > Does anyone know, by the way, what's happening with the Lions > commentaries? They're at the top of my "stuff I want to read" list, > and have been for quite some time now! I have a copy of the PostScript version which floated around the 'net a few years back. I'd be prepared to give it out on the solemn promise that people buy Lions' commentaries when they are published. I'll let you all know how I go with SCO. Cheers, Warren

29 years

Re: Good News re PDP Unix Licensing

by Johnny.Billquist＠emw.ericsson.se

> All, > I just received a very pleasing letter from Dion L. Johnson II, the > Product Manager at SCO, about the legal status of the PDP UNIXs. I've included > his email and my response below. If I can get a legally authorative statement > on paper from SCO, I'll pass it on to you all, especially Steven Schultz. Not that I wan't to sound pessimistic, but there are several miles between "would not mind", and "legally allowed". >From what I read into his letter, he's saying that he don't think SCO would take legal actions against us, but at the same time they won't probably make it officially legal. And your reply, hoping that they'll say that "Unix is legally owned by SCO, but freely distributable", is really reaching for the sky... :-) Anyway, keep trying, it would be very nice if they really did write such a paper. Johnny

29 years

Good News re PDP Unix Licensing

by wkt＠csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au

All, I just received a very pleasing letter from Dion L. Johnson II, the Product Manager at SCO, about the legal status of the PDP UNIXs. I've included his email and my response below. If I can get a legally authorative statement on paper from SCO, I'll pass it on to you all, especially Steven Schultz. Cheers, Warren In atricle by Dion: > > SCO owns the licensing rights all versions of the UNIX system, or > so our legal folks tell me. Now, of course there are many > derivative, licensed versions, and some of the holders of those > licenses have rights to sublicense. In the case of BSD > enhancements, the Berkeley additions are owned by the Regents of > the University of California, and I believe the UCB license terms > are well known. > > As for your friends who have rescued ancient PDP machines... I > am confident that SCO would cheerfully encourage them to run UNIX > on these antiques without any payment to us. I cant quite > officially give that permission myself, but I can speculate that > SCO certainly would not mind. > > So go for it. Does this help? > -Dion >Dion L. Johnson II - The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc. dionj(a)sco.com >SCO Product Manager - Development Systems and Various Other Stuff >400 Encinal St. Santa Cruz, CA 95061 FAX: 408-427-5417 Voice: 408-427-7565 Dion, thanks very much for your email, in fact I'm ecstatic! I know this could be a tricky legal minefield, so if possible could SCO draft a letter (and run it past their lawyers) which sets out exactly what you said above. In particular, you said that ``SCO would cheerfully encourage them to run UNIX on these antiques without any payment to us''. Does this mean I can legally distribute the source code to the PDP versions of UNIX, and to anybody? or just to people who own PDP-11s. There are PDP-11 emulators available, so it is conceivable that people who don't even have a real PDP-11 might like to try UNIX out on these emulators. If to anybody, then I assume this means the source is legally owned by SCO but freely distributable? I really appreciate your offer of making these old versions of UNIX available, but given the legal status of the code to this point, I would like to cover myself with an officially blessed and signed document from SCO. Let me know what you can do, and many many thanks again for this! Cheers, Warren

29 years

Re: v6 tapes

by wkt＠dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au

In atricle by Jacob Ritorto: > Warren, > I have three 600' 9-track 800bpi tapes marked (in pen) UNIX V6 > 4000 blocks. One Source, one Object, one Documentation. I've tried > using ROLLIN to restore them, but it expects a filename, which I can't > find. I did do an RT11 dump of the first few blocks of the tapes, which > revealed an ascii 'd' as the first byte, then a series of decending > bytes. It didn't look like a file structure or a filename. All the > tapes had the same first block. I tried to boot the tapes directly on an > 11/34. No luck. I tried to DIR them from rt11, but, of course, rt > couldn't find any directory info. There's definately unix stuff on the > tapes--I saw it in the RT11 device dump. Dates in some of the source > files are around 1974 or 1976, if I recall correctly. > What do I need to do to get these tapes back onto disk and > running? I'm assuming they restore to RK05 disks because the labels say > 4000 blocks. I have 4 rk05 drives and lots of packs. BTW, the tape > drive I'm using is a TU10 with standard address and vector. > Your help would be greatly appreciated. > Jacob Ritorto Jacob, I'm passing this onto a bunch of PDP Unix people, as I don't have the hardware & RT11 experience to tell you how to install v6 from the tapes. Yes, the 3 tapes are RK05 pack images, I have on-line copies here if that can be of any help to you. Can you raw dump the tapes to RK05s using RT11? Can anybody help Jacob out here? We also have v7, 2.9BSD and 2.11BSD here. What hardware do you have? Best of luck, Warren Toomey

29 years

11/73 and UNIX?

by pwargo＠basenji.com

The recent 11/23 discussion got me wondering if anybody has seen an 11/73 running UNIX - I've got one with 3M RAM, and an RD52(?) (32M winchester...) -Pete, who has changed his address to pwargo(a)basenji.com (my own domain!) -Pete "I *still* want a vacation", Chandra "I love it here", Keegan "SUN!" and Spritzer "Let's go for *another* walk!" Rio Rancho, New Mexico, USA pwargo(a)basenji.com (a free system) >From Robin Birch <robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk> Mon Apr 8 00:30:04 1996 Received: from relay-2.mail.demon.net (disperse.demon.co.uk [158.152.1.77]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.6.13/8.3) with SMTP id AAA19996; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 00:38:26 +1000 Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([158.152.1.72]) by relay-2.mail.demon.net id ac13158; 7 Apr 96 15:38 +0100 Received: from falstaf.demon.co.uk ([158.152.152.109]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net id aa26099; 7 Apr 96 15:32 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by falstaf.demon.co.uk (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA00403; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 15:30:04 +0100 (BST) Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 15:30:04 +0100 (BST) From: Robin Birch <robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk> Message-Id: <199604071430.PAA00403(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk> To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, pwargo(a)basenji.com Subject: Re: 11/73 and UNIX? Got one at home. It has only got 1.5MByte but in soldiers on. You will need more than an RD52, a 53 as a bare min and a 54 as ideal. I use 2*54s RObin >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com> Mon Apr 8 03:41:58 1996 Received: from wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com (WLV.IIPO.GTEGSC.COM [199.107.242.11]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.6.13/8.3) with ESMTP id DAA20814; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 03:42:22 +1000 Received: (from sms@localhost) by wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) id KAA04105; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 10:41:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 10:41:58 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com> Message-Id: <199604071741.KAA04105(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com> To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, pwargo(a)basenji.com, robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: 11/73 and UNIX? > From: Robin Birch <robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk> > > Got one at home. It has only got 1.5MByte but in soldiers on. You will need > more than an RD52, a 53 as a bare min and a 54 as ideal. I use 2*54s Got two. A HP3724S 1.2GB SCSI drive works just fine <grin> Steven Schultz sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com

29 years, 3 months

Re: UNIX for 11/23 (fwd)

by rjm＠swift.eng.ox.ac.uk

Forwarded message: Subject: Re: UNIX for 11/23 To: wkt(a)csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 09:40:12 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <9603202323.AA23006@dolphin> from "Warren Toomey" at Mar 21, 96 09:23:49 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text > >In atricle by Bob Manners: >> >> Now, the 11/23 has 128Kw, a 10Mb RD51 winchester and an RX50 floppy. I >> need to get hold of a version of UNIX (pref. v7) The UNIX in question >> obviously needs to support the RD51. >> >> Does v7 support RD series drives? If not, what does? > >v7 doesn't support RDs (just looked thru the archive), and I don't know >of anything that does. You'd probably have to write your own device driver :-( I beleive Digital's MV7 (I think) does support RDs. It is mentioned in the 11/23+ Owners Manual. I'll have to check. I guess this version isn't in the archive ... Cheers, Bob. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Manners Osney Laboratory rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science University of Oxford 01865 288762 Computer Museum: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk/rjm/museum.html Also: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk "The comfort you've demanded is now mandatory" - Jello Biafra ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Manners Osney Laboratory rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science University of Oxford 01865 288762 Computer Museum: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk/rjm/museum.html Also: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk "The comfort you've demanded is now mandatory" - Jello Biafra ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

29 years, 3 months

Re: UNIX for 11/23 (fwd)

by rjm＠swift.eng.ox.ac.uk

Forwarded message: Subject: Re: UNIX for 11/23 To: sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com (Steven M. Schultz) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 09:43:47 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <199603202239.OAA28894(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com> from "Steven M. Schultz" at Mar 20, 96 02:39:32 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text What about Digital's MV7 (or whatever it was called). This is mentioned in the 11/23+ owners' manual as supported. Thus it must run on the 11/23+ and support RD series disks. It is basically Bell Labs version 7 I think. > Warren's correct. MSCP support did not enter the 'BSD' picture until > late 2.9BSD or early 2.10BSD. TMSCP support for tapes didn't come > about until early 2.11BSD when I "borrowed" the driver from 4.3BSD > (who had earlier borrowed it from Ultrix). OK. I guess 2.x BSD (x>=9) requires separate I+D space? That would rule out the 11/23+ I think. > It should be noted that the MSCP (and to a greater degree TMSCP) > is a *pig* - it's the largest driver in the system, rivaling the > TTY subsystem sizewise. Yes. I can believe that. Looks like writing my own driver would be no fun at all! > An 11/23 is already extremely cramped for address space even using > simpler/smaller drivers such as the RK, RL, etc. I seriously doubt > the MSCP driver could be smashed in to a 11/23 kernel and leave room > for too much else. The 11/23+ has plenty of address space (22 bit), but mine only has 128Kw ... Cheers, Bob. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Manners Osney Laboratory rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science University of Oxford 01865 288762 Computer Museum: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk/rjm/museum.html Also: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk "The comfort you've demanded is now mandatory" - Jello Biafra ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Manners Osney Laboratory rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science University of Oxford 01865 288762 Computer Museum: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk/rjm/museum.html Also: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk "The comfort you've demanded is now mandatory" - Jello Biafra ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com> Fri Mar 22 02:31:20 1996 Received: from wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com (root(a)WLV.IIPO.GTEGSC.COM [199.107.242.11]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.6.13/8.3) with ESMTP id CAA02140; Fri, 22 Mar 1996 02:32:56 +0959 Received: (from sms@localhost) by wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) id IAA19050; Thu, 21 Mar 1996 08:31:20 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 08:31:20 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com> Message-Id: <199603211631.IAA19050(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com> To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Subject: Re: UNIX for 11/23 (fwd) Robert - > I beleive Digital's MV7 (I think) does support RDs. It is mentioned in > the 11/23+ Owners Manual. I'll have to check. I guess this version > isn't in the archive ... True - Ultrix-11 (what MV7 was called later on) does have MSCP support in it. I've not looked at how they handle the rather prodigious data space requirements (~2kb per controller) yet. Cheers. Steven

29 years, 3 months

UNIX for 11/23

by rjm＠swift.eng.ox.ac.uk

Having met with storming success (thanks Warren) in getting UNIX v6 and v7 up and running on my 11/34, and having recently (well yesterday) acquired an 11/23+, I'd like to put UNIX on the latter. Now, the 11/23 has 128Kw, a 10Mb RD51 winchester and an RX50 floppy. I need to get hold of a version of UNIX (pref. v7) The UNIX in question obviously needs to support the RD51. In the case of the 11/34 I built a UNIX image under a PDP-11 emulator and KERMITed it to the 11/34. I plan to do the same in this case ... Any suggestions welcome. Does v7 support RD series drives? If not, what does? Cheers, Bob. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Manners Osney Laboratory rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science University of Oxford 01865 288762 Computer Museum: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk/rjm/museum.html Also: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk "The comfort you've demanded is now mandatory" - Jello Biafra ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

29 years, 3 months

Re: Happy New Year

by wkt＠dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au

In atricle by Milo Velimirovic: > > Hi, > > I'm still alive and well. Thanks for hte note. > > I have precious little time to spend with my pdp11's. I'm still looking for > a legal Unix to run on either my 11/34 or 11/44. In the meantime I make do > with a NeXT cube. > > If possible please make your paper publicly available. You can now get it at http://minnie/Seminars :-) I'm still working on licences. Warren

29 years, 5 months

Happy New Year

by wkt＠dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au

Hi all, I thought I'd mail to the old unix list to see if you were all still alive & hope the new year goes well for you. It's been a quiet few months. I've not heard back from Keith Bostic about his archive. However, I'm presenting a paper about PDP Unixes at the local Australian Unix Users Group summer conference next week, should be fun. Cheers, Warren wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au

29 years, 5 months

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