My V7 has RL drivers, and AFAIR they're on my distribution tape, which has
a 1980 date sticker on it (I think; it's not to hand).
My 11/23 only has RL02s on it, and it was running V7 fine this morning :-)
Pete
Mahlzeit
> V7 _initially_ did *not* have RL02 support. When we got our first V7
> tape in 1979 a RL02 driver was written locally in ~79 or 80. So
> unless someone added the RL0? support to V7 and submitted the updated
> images to the archives it's doubtful RL devices can be used with V7.
The V7 are RL02 images and include the RL drivers.
> > One thing to note, the RL02 kernel comes with swap at the end of the
> > RL02. You will need to rebuild a kernel so that the location and size of the
> Quite right. The 'swaplo' global must agree with the partition table
> wired into the driver or the system will end up swapping over top of
> the root filesystem. *ick* ;)
rl1conf:
rl
root rl 0
swap rl 0
swplo 9000
nswap 1240
tm
I assume that means that the filesystem ist 9000 block long and the
swap 1240 blocks. (-> mkfs /dev/rl1 9000)
Until now I have the RL02 cleaned up, so it fits on a RL01, and
made a filesystem on the RL01. Now I'm fighting with the emu.
Mahlzeit
endergone Zwiebeltuete
--
insanity inside
Mahlzeit
My name is Matthias Bruestle and I'm new on this mailing list.
I'm collecting old computers and have until now 34.
I have a 11/34A with 128kB RAM, DL11-W and 2 RL01. I want to
install UNIX on her. Because there are no RL01 disk images
which I can use directly, I want to prepare one with a
PDP-11 emulator. I got V6 to boot with the Supnik emulator,
but noticed than that V6 has no support for RL01 drives.
Does someone have RL01 drivers for V6 or must I use V7?
The last step would be to download the image over the serial
line. Is there allready a programm for RT-11SJ V4.00
which does this?
Thanks for your help
endergone Zwiebeltuete
--
insanity inside
In atricle by Danny R. Brown:
> 3.If Keith has not yet found a way to transfer files I have a set of
> PD tape utilities which work quite well. As I recall I installed
> TSXTCP (from shop.pdp.kent.edu) and FTP'd the files from my PC to my
> 11/73, built the tapes with the aforementioned utilities (TK-50, but
> I believe most any style will do), booted up and installed everything
> in about three days.
>
> I'm sure that I posted a pointer to the ftp site for the tape utils
> on this sig, or maybe e-mailed them to someone who requested. I'm
> still not home much but drop me a line and I'll dig out the notes,
> names, and etc., in the next few days...
> cheers!
Danny, I just looked thru the archive and, no, you didn't post any
detais. So, would you drop a line with the info when you get back.
Thanks again!
Warren
I'm forwarding this on from Keith Huff, who wants to know how to load the
PDP UNIX images from henry onto a machine. As I've never used a PDP OS
apart from Unix, can someone pass on trick and techniques to get tape or
disk images from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au onto a PDP-11?
Thanks,
Warren
----- Forwarded message from kshuff(a)fast.net -----
From: kshuff(a)fast.net
Subject: PDP Unix
Hi Warren,
I have visited your FTP site and have a question. The only piece of
equipment I have connected to the net is a PC, so upon downloading a copy of
Unix, how do I go about getting it over to the PDP, or do I have to have it
connected to the net. If the latter, could you give me some guidance on how
this would be accomplished. Thanks again.
-Keith S. Huff
----- End of forwarded message from kshuff(a)fast.net -----
>From "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus(a)crl.com> Fri Aug 23 13:38:27 1996
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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 20:38:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus(a)crl.com>
To: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Cc: PDP Unix Preservation <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: PDP Unix - how to load?
In-Reply-To: <9608120357.AA22166@dolphin>
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On Mon, 12 Aug 1996, Warren Toomey wrote:
> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 13:57:30 +1000 (EST)
> From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au>
> To: PDP Unix Preservation <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
> Subject: PDP Unix - how to load?
>
> I'm forwarding this on from Keith Huff, who wants to know how to load the
> PDP UNIX images from henry onto a machine. As I've never used a PDP OS
> apart from Unix, can someone pass on trick and techniques to get tape or
> disk images from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au onto a PDP-11?
>
> Thanks,
> Warren
> ----- Forwarded message from kshuff(a)fast.net -----
> From: kshuff(a)fast.net
> Subject: PDP Unix
> Hi Warren,
>
> I have visited your FTP site and have a question. The only piece of
> equipment I have connected to the net is a PC, so upon downloading a copy of
> Unix, how do I go about getting it over to the PDP, or do I have to have it
> connected to the net. If the latter, could you give me some guidance on how
> this would be accomplished. Thanks again.
>
> -Keith S. Huff
> ----- End of forwarded message from kshuff(a)fast.net -----
>
Keith, Warren, et al.....
1.Sorry that I've been away from this SIG after such a hectic beginning
last winter. I got sucked up in the Olympics here in Atlanta and am only
now returning to "normal" life. You boys down under might invest in a
good pair of hip boots- its coming your way ;-)
2.Thanks to all of you for your help in getting me up and running.
3.If Keith has not yet found a way to transfer files I have a set of
PD tape utilities which work quite well. As I recall I installed
TSXTCP (from shop.pdp.kent.edu) and FTP'd the files from my PC to my
11/73, built the tapes with the aforementioned utilities (TK-50, but
I believe most any style will do), booted up and installed everything
in about three days.
I'm sure that I posted a pointer to the ftp site for the tape utils
on this sig, or maybe e-mailed them to someone who requested. I'm
still not home much but drop me a line and I'll dig out the notes,
names, and etc., in the next few days...
cheers!
*************************************************************************
* A Personal Message from * BASILISK *
* Danny R. Brown * "Try our other fine flavors!" *
* ( sysyphus(a)crl.com ) * (404) 392-1691 *
* Pager:(404)397-0516 * LYNC host mode *
*************************************************************************
All,
In my continuing quest to find out if PDP-11 UNIX licenses are
available and how to get them, I've been chatting with Mike Tilson, a VP at
SCO. I include his email below, with permission. The summary is that SCO
don't have any licenses for PDP-11 UNIX; if you want a license, you should
join an organisation with an existing UNIX source license so as to be
covered by it.
Cheers,
Warren
From: Michael Tilson <mike(a)sco.COM>
Subject: Re: PDP-11 Unix Licenses?
[The question posed to Mike was: could cheap PDP UNIX licenses be make
available to people who don't have licenses?]
As a former PDP-11 UNIX Fifth Edition user and systems programmer I'd
personally be pleased to see this happen. There are some obstacles.
The UNIX intellectual property has great value (SCO gave up nearly 20%
of its equity plus future cash payments to obtain it.) The
intellectual property traces back in unbroken lineage to PDP-11 UNIX.
Source licensing has always been very carefully managed, as this deals
with the core of the intellectual property. Even when source was
licensed to universities "for free" there was a large agreement signed
by a university corporate authority, and the agreement had teeth in it.
The Lions book was something we all wanted to see published, but it
still took considerable careful legal review, and that was just to
publish the kernel plus a limited set of device drivers. The full
source code (utilities, libraries, compilers, etc.) would be a bigger
matter. (Example: I believe the algorithms in the "diff" command for
optimal differencing are still unequaled in other commercial systems,
despite their age.) And the later the version (e.g. Seventh Edition
rather than Sixth Edition) the more concerned we would be.
When Dion Johnson raised this matter internally a while back I
commented that I'd like to see it happen, but that I understood all of
the above concerns. I wondered at that time whether the task of
resurrecting this historical item wasn't something that could be done
in cooperation with universities who already possessed the appropriate
source licenses. Would that method work for you? I note that you
appear to be associated with the right sort of institution.
So in summary I'd like to see this happen, I'll be helpful if I can,
and I would caution that the probability is considerably lower than for
the Lions book. Dion has been doing a good job of representing your
interests, by the way.
It sounds like all the interested parties are today associated with
institutions that would allow them the necessary access for this
history project. I've sometimes thought that I'd like to have a
PDP-11/45 running the old UNIX myself. (The hardware can no doubt be
found in some scrapyard, the trick is floorspace and power of course.
Seems like a lot of effort to get a computer with two orders of
magnitude less capacity than my laptop computer... :-))
Please make sure everyone understands that in principle we'd like to be
helpful, but we're not dealing with a dead product, we're dealing with
an earlier version of what is today a very much alive and growing
product -- an intellectual asset of extremely high value. This means
everyone moves very cautiously, as intellectual property law can be a
minefield. There is no doubt that a license with enough teeth could be
written, and if we had such a license the purpose would not be to
charge historians or hobbiests a lot of money. The real obstacle is
the care and effort that must go into creating a licensing program, and
I think the business reality is that we're unlikely to have enough idle
cycles available to create the program for you. (Not my department,
though -- maybe Dion will be able to push it through, who knows?)
// Michael Tilson, CIO
// SCO, +1-408-429-4889
All,
Just got this information about the Lions commentary on v6 from
Peter Salus:
The ISBN for the Lions is (will be?) 1-57398-013-7. It will
be $29.95 US. The distributor is International Thompson;
the publisher is Peer-to-Peer Communications.
Cheers,
Warren
All,
I browsed thru the blocks on my `Museum Format' v6 disk image,
and after a bit of work found a nice comment from the writers of the
code:
/*
* Optimized RK-11/RK03/RK05/disk driver
*
* Copyright (c) 1975, the Children's Museum.
*
* [...] In this
* format, block 0 is in its standard place so that
* boot programs can be put there; blocks 1 through
* NHRKBLK (2435) are located beginning at block #2436,
* all remaining blocks are between block 1 & 2435. the
* effect of this mapping is to centralize disk head motion
* about the center of the disk.
* the optimization is ideal for those RK's
* which serve as both root device and swap device. It
* is less than ideal, although probably still an
* improvement over traditional form, for RK's used
* exclusively as mounted file systems.
So, after a bit of dd(1)ing, I had my two Museum Format v6 disk images
into a form which could be read with a normal v6 system.
Cheers,
Warren
Hi all,
I've just been looking thru the old tapes I have here from v6 Unix,
and I think I've got two RK disk images which were laid out with the RK
driver from the Boston Children's Museum. An old email from Kevin Hill
says that the inodes are in the middle of the pack, rather than at the
beginning. However, I don't know enough about the scheme to try and
decode the files from the disk image.
If anybody can help me out, could they email me back. I've got a
program called `grab' that can extract files from v6 images, and I'd
like to modify it to get the files from these `museum' disk images.
Re: the stuff from SCO, Dion at SCO is talking to the legal guys, but
I haven't heard anything as yet.
Thanks in advance!
Warren
In atricle by Tom I Helbekkmo:
> On Fri, 28 Jun 1996, Warren Toomey wrote:
>
> Is there really any good reason for them to object to the distribution
> of UNIXes prior to SVR1? Could there possibly be anything at all in
> V7 and earlier that could in any way be damaging to SCO (or anyone
> else who might buy UNIX from SCO) if it were freely distributed? If
> I'm right in assuming that it couldn't possibly make a difference to
> their bottom line, perhaps SCO could be convinced to formally release
> these oldest versions of UNIX?
I suggested to Dion that SCO would get kudos from the Unix community if
they did. Haven't heard back from him yet (still Sunday there).
> Does anyone know, by the way, what's happening with the Lions
> commentaries? They're at the top of my "stuff I want to read" list,
> and have been for quite some time now!
I have a copy of the PostScript version which floated around the 'net
a few years back. I'd be prepared to give it out on the solemn promise
that people buy Lions' commentaries when they are published.
I'll let you all know how I go with SCO.
Cheers,
Warren
> All,
> I just received a very pleasing letter from Dion L. Johnson II, the
> Product Manager at SCO, about the legal status of the PDP UNIXs. I've included
> his email and my response below. If I can get a legally authorative statement
> on paper from SCO, I'll pass it on to you all, especially Steven Schultz.
Not that I wan't to sound pessimistic, but there are several
miles between "would not mind", and "legally allowed".
>From what I read into his letter, he's saying that he don't think
SCO would take legal actions against us, but at the same time they
won't probably make it officially legal.
And your reply, hoping that they'll say that "Unix is legally owned by
SCO, but freely distributable", is really reaching for the sky... :-)
Anyway, keep trying, it would be very nice if they really did write
such a paper.
Johnny
All,
I just received a very pleasing letter from Dion L. Johnson II, the
Product Manager at SCO, about the legal status of the PDP UNIXs. I've included
his email and my response below. If I can get a legally authorative statement
on paper from SCO, I'll pass it on to you all, especially Steven Schultz.
Cheers,
Warren
In atricle by Dion:
>
> SCO owns the licensing rights all versions of the UNIX system, or
> so our legal folks tell me. Now, of course there are many
> derivative, licensed versions, and some of the holders of those
> licenses have rights to sublicense. In the case of BSD
> enhancements, the Berkeley additions are owned by the Regents of
> the University of California, and I believe the UCB license terms
> are well known.
>
> As for your friends who have rescued ancient PDP machines... I
> am confident that SCO would cheerfully encourage them to run UNIX
> on these antiques without any payment to us. I cant quite
> officially give that permission myself, but I can speculate that
> SCO certainly would not mind.
>
> So go for it. Does this help?
> -Dion
>Dion L. Johnson II - The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc. dionj(a)sco.com
>SCO Product Manager - Development Systems and Various Other Stuff
>400 Encinal St. Santa Cruz, CA 95061 FAX: 408-427-5417 Voice: 408-427-7565
Dion, thanks very much for your email, in fact I'm ecstatic! I know this
could be a tricky legal minefield, so if possible could SCO draft a letter
(and run it past their lawyers) which sets out exactly what you said above.
In particular, you said that ``SCO would cheerfully encourage them to run UNIX
on these antiques without any payment to us''. Does this mean I can legally
distribute the source code to the PDP versions of UNIX, and to anybody? or
just to people who own PDP-11s. There are PDP-11 emulators available, so
it is conceivable that people who don't even have a real PDP-11 might like
to try UNIX out on these emulators. If to anybody, then I assume this means
the source is legally owned by SCO but freely distributable?
I really appreciate your offer of making these old versions of UNIX
available, but given the legal status of the code to this point, I would
like to cover myself with an officially blessed and signed document from SCO.
Let me know what you can do, and many many thanks again for this!
Cheers,
Warren
In atricle by Jacob Ritorto:
> Warren,
> I have three 600' 9-track 800bpi tapes marked (in pen) UNIX V6
> 4000 blocks. One Source, one Object, one Documentation. I've tried
> using ROLLIN to restore them, but it expects a filename, which I can't
> find. I did do an RT11 dump of the first few blocks of the tapes, which
> revealed an ascii 'd' as the first byte, then a series of decending
> bytes. It didn't look like a file structure or a filename. All the
> tapes had the same first block. I tried to boot the tapes directly on an
> 11/34. No luck. I tried to DIR them from rt11, but, of course, rt
> couldn't find any directory info. There's definately unix stuff on the
> tapes--I saw it in the RT11 device dump. Dates in some of the source
> files are around 1974 or 1976, if I recall correctly.
> What do I need to do to get these tapes back onto disk and
> running? I'm assuming they restore to RK05 disks because the labels say
> 4000 blocks. I have 4 rk05 drives and lots of packs. BTW, the tape
> drive I'm using is a TU10 with standard address and vector.
> Your help would be greatly appreciated.
> Jacob Ritorto
Jacob, I'm passing this onto a bunch of PDP Unix people, as I don't have
the hardware & RT11 experience to tell you how to install v6 from the
tapes. Yes, the 3 tapes are RK05 pack images, I have on-line copies here
if that can be of any help to you. Can you raw dump the tapes to RK05s
using RT11?
Can anybody help Jacob out here? We also have v7, 2.9BSD and 2.11BSD here.
What hardware do you have?
Best of luck,
Warren Toomey
The recent 11/23 discussion got me wondering if anybody has seen an 11/73
running UNIX - I've got one with 3M RAM, and an RD52(?) (32M winchester...)
-Pete, who has changed his address to pwargo(a)basenji.com (my own domain!)
-Pete "I *still* want a vacation", Chandra "I love it here", Keegan "SUN!"
and Spritzer "Let's go for *another* walk!"
Rio Rancho, New Mexico, USA
pwargo(a)basenji.com (a free system)
>From Robin Birch <robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk> Mon Apr 8 00:30:04 1996
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Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 15:30:04 +0100 (BST)
From: Robin Birch <robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk>
Message-Id: <199604071430.PAA00403(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk>
To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, pwargo(a)basenji.com
Subject: Re: 11/73 and UNIX?
Got one at home. It has only got 1.5MByte but in soldiers on. You will need
more than an RD52, a 53 as a bare min and a 54 as ideal. I use 2*54s
RObin
>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com> Mon Apr 8 03:41:58 1996
Received: from wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com (WLV.IIPO.GTEGSC.COM [199.107.242.11]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.6.13/8.3) with ESMTP id DAA20814; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 03:42:22 +1000
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Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 10:41:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>
Message-Id: <199604071741.KAA04105(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>
To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, pwargo(a)basenji.com,
robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: 11/73 and UNIX?
> From: Robin Birch <robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk>
>
> Got one at home. It has only got 1.5MByte but in soldiers on. You will need
> more than an RD52, a 53 as a bare min and a 54 as ideal. I use 2*54s
Got two. A HP3724S 1.2GB SCSI drive works just fine <grin>
Steven Schultz
sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com
Forwarded message:
Subject: Re: UNIX for 11/23
To: wkt(a)csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 09:40:12 +0000 (GMT)
In-Reply-To: <9603202323.AA23006@dolphin> from "Warren Toomey" at Mar 21, 96 09:23:49 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Content-Type: text
>
>In atricle by Bob Manners:
>>
>> Now, the 11/23 has 128Kw, a 10Mb RD51 winchester and an RX50 floppy. I
>> need to get hold of a version of UNIX (pref. v7) The UNIX in question
>> obviously needs to support the RD51.
>>
>> Does v7 support RD series drives? If not, what does?
>
>v7 doesn't support RDs (just looked thru the archive), and I don't know
>of anything that does. You'd probably have to write your own device driver :-(
I beleive Digital's MV7 (I think) does support RDs. It is mentioned in
the 11/23+ Owners Manual. I'll have to check. I guess this version
isn't in the archive ...
Cheers,
Bob.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners Osney Laboratory
rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science
University of Oxford
01865 288762
Computer Museum: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk/rjm/museum.html
Also: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk
"The comfort you've demanded is now mandatory" - Jello Biafra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners Osney Laboratory
rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science
University of Oxford
01865 288762
Computer Museum: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk/rjm/museum.html
Also: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk
"The comfort you've demanded is now mandatory" - Jello Biafra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forwarded message:
Subject: Re: UNIX for 11/23
To: sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 09:43:47 +0000 (GMT)
In-Reply-To: <199603202239.OAA28894(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com> from "Steven M. Schultz" at Mar 20, 96 02:39:32 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Content-Type: text
What about Digital's MV7 (or whatever it was called). This is
mentioned in the 11/23+ owners' manual as supported. Thus it must run
on the 11/23+ and support RD series disks. It is basically Bell Labs
version 7 I think.
> Warren's correct. MSCP support did not enter the 'BSD' picture until
> late 2.9BSD or early 2.10BSD. TMSCP support for tapes didn't come
> about until early 2.11BSD when I "borrowed" the driver from 4.3BSD
> (who had earlier borrowed it from Ultrix).
OK. I guess 2.x BSD (x>=9) requires separate I+D space? That would
rule out the 11/23+ I think.
> It should be noted that the MSCP (and to a greater degree TMSCP)
> is a *pig* - it's the largest driver in the system, rivaling the
> TTY subsystem sizewise.
Yes. I can believe that. Looks like writing my own driver would be no
fun at all!
> An 11/23 is already extremely cramped for address space even using
> simpler/smaller drivers such as the RK, RL, etc. I seriously doubt
> the MSCP driver could be smashed in to a 11/23 kernel and leave room
> for too much else.
The 11/23+ has plenty of address space (22 bit), but mine only has 128Kw ...
Cheers,
Bob.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners Osney Laboratory
rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science
University of Oxford
01865 288762
Computer Museum: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk/rjm/museum.html
Also: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk
"The comfort you've demanded is now mandatory" - Jello Biafra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners Osney Laboratory
rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science
University of Oxford
01865 288762
Computer Museum: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk/rjm/museum.html
Also: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk
"The comfort you've demanded is now mandatory" - Jello Biafra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com> Fri Mar 22 02:31:20 1996
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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 08:31:20 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>
Message-Id: <199603211631.IAA19050(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>
To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk
Subject: Re: UNIX for 11/23 (fwd)
Robert -
> I beleive Digital's MV7 (I think) does support RDs. It is mentioned in
> the 11/23+ Owners Manual. I'll have to check. I guess this version
> isn't in the archive ...
True - Ultrix-11 (what MV7 was called later on) does have MSCP
support in it. I've not looked at how they handle the rather
prodigious data space requirements (~2kb per controller) yet.
Cheers.
Steven
Having met with storming success (thanks Warren) in getting UNIX v6
and v7 up and running on my 11/34, and having recently (well
yesterday) acquired an 11/23+, I'd like to put UNIX on the latter.
Now, the 11/23 has 128Kw, a 10Mb RD51 winchester and an RX50 floppy. I
need to get hold of a version of UNIX (pref. v7) The UNIX in question
obviously needs to support the RD51.
In the case of the 11/34 I built a UNIX image under a PDP-11 emulator
and KERMITed it to the 11/34. I plan to do the same in this case ...
Any suggestions welcome. Does v7 support RD series drives? If not,
what does?
Cheers,
Bob.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners Osney Laboratory
rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science
University of Oxford
01865 288762
Computer Museum: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk/rjm/museum.html
Also: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk
"The comfort you've demanded is now mandatory" - Jello Biafra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
In atricle by Milo Velimirovic:
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm still alive and well. Thanks for hte note.
>
> I have precious little time to spend with my pdp11's. I'm still looking for
> a legal Unix to run on either my 11/34 or 11/44. In the meantime I make do
> with a NeXT cube.
>
> If possible please make your paper publicly available.
You can now get it at http://minnie/Seminars :-)
I'm still working on licences.
Warren
Hi all,
I thought I'd mail to the old unix list to see if you were all
still alive & hope the new year goes well for you. It's been a quiet few
months. I've not heard back from Keith Bostic about his archive. However,
I'm presenting a paper about PDP Unixes at the local Australian Unix Users
Group summer conference next week, should be fun.
Cheers,
Warren wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
Greetings:
I've been playing with the mail system. Mailing to root brings up
can't find usr/lonex/xmail
This in itself is not a problem, as I only tried this to see what would
happen. However, I am curious as to what the lonex directory is (was).
It does not appear in my listing of the contents of tape 2.
Cheers!
*************************************************************************
* A Personal Message from * BASILISK *
* Danny R. Brown * "Try our other fine flavors!" *
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>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com> Tue Dec 19 13:59:39 1995
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Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 19:59:39 -0800
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>
Message-Id: <199512190359.TAA04159(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>
To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, sysyphus(a)crl.com
Subject: Re: What is lonex?
Hi -
> From: "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus(a)crl.com>
> Subject: What is lonex?
LONEX _was_ "Laboratory Office Network EXperiment" - a project
I worked on for many years (we started with V7) and which just ended
a couple or three years ago. We used 11/44s and 70s right up till
the end - by which point they were all running 2.11BSD. It was a
really neat system - had a common user namespace (YP before there was
YP;-)) amoungst all systems, a (for the time) spiffy text-mode menuing
interface to shield users from the fact it was Unix and so on.
> I've been playing with the mail system. Mailing to root brings up
> can't find usr/lonex/xmail
The sendmail.cf as distributed in the 'GENERIC' system kit wasn't
cleaned up enough. That reference to a local mailer that I use
should have been removed.
Several things to note:
1) the sendmail.fc file does not exist - on purpose. You'll need to
perform step 2 and then do a "/usr/lib/sendmail -bz" to freeze
(pre-process for faster loading) the config file.
2) the sendmail.cf file is not suitable for use without customizing
(filling in the domain name, relay system, etc).
3) The aliases database (/usr/lib/aliases.{dir,pag}) are not present,
on purpose. You'll want to edit /usr/lib/aliases to suit local
tastes and then do "/usr/lib/sendmail -bi" to create the dbm
aliases database.
> This in itself is not a problem, as I only tried this to see what would
> happen. However, I am curious as to what the lonex directory is (was).
It's a directory I keep local works of art such as the local mailer
'xmail' which knew the details about routing mail within the "Office
Network" we ran.
> It does not appear in my listing of the contents of tape 2.
It shouldn't have been there at all.
You should have something like:
# Mlocal, P=/bin/mail, F=rlsDFMmn, S=10, R=20, A=mail -d $u
Mlocal, P=/usr/lonex/bin/xmail, F=lsSDFMmn, S=10, R=20, A=xmail -f $g $u
in sendmail.cf. Simply reverse the commented status of the two
lines to be:
Mlocal, P=/bin/mail, F=rlsDFMmn, S=10, R=20, A=mail -d $u
# Mlocal, P=/usr/lonex/bin/xmail, F=lsSDFMmn, S=10, R=20, A=xmail -f $g $u
And you'll be all set.
Steven Schultz
sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com
I just thought I'd share a few more of my experiences with you in the
hope that they may help someone out....
Over the weekend, I finally succeeded in ftping Tapes/Torsten/v7.gz -
version 7 as an RL02 image. (International ftp to the UK is terrible
at present!).
I have no RL02, so I booted the image on Bob Supnic's pdp11 emulator,
built a kernel to support both RL and RK05 drives and set about
transferring the vital parts of the system to an RK05 image, with the
kernel source, games and other non-essentials going to a second
image. The two RK05 images are pretty full!
I built kernels for the 11/40 (m40.o) and 11/34 (smch.o), to support
just the RK05, and added a second DL-11 as previously discussed on
this list.
Kermiting the root image to an RK05 on my 11/34 was no trouble. My
11/34 will booth the m40.o image just fine, but the smch.o image
caused much disk activity, but no console output. Version 7 thus can
be persuaded to work on an 11/34a, with a single RK05. The second DL11
is recognised and works as expected. Version 7 seems significantly
slower than version 6, when multi-user mode is entered.
Thus, I think I'd recommend version 6 for a small system ...
Cheers,
Bob.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners Osney Laboratory
rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science
University of Oxford
01865 288762
Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Linux - the only choice
This message brought to you from an entirely Microsoft free system.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
As Warren says, you don't want to sync after an fsck run has made
changes to the disk. Simply turn off and reboot. One gotcha Warren
omitted was the process /etc/update, which is usually started at
boot-time from /etc/rc. This process does a sync every 30 secs
automatically. Before fscking a live filesystem, kill update first!
If fsck finds anything wrong, shutdown immediately without a sync.
Of course, fscking unmounted filesystems is far safer, but not always
possible for the root partition ...
Cheers,
Bob.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners Osney Laboratory
rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science
University of Oxford
01865 288762
Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Linux - the only choice
This message brought to you from an entirely Microsoft free system.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hmm, while we're on the topic of fsck, the RL02 image of 7th Edition that was
given to me by Torsten Hippe had an fsck for v7 filesystems, but no source code.
Torsten did say that Johnny Billquist had the original tape, but Johnny says
he's not in a position to read the tape.
Anyway, does anybody have the source code to this or another v7 fsck? Any clues
as to who wrote it etc.?
Thanks,
Warren
Howdy -
> From: "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus(a)crl.com>
>
> When I do a "reboot" the system declares that /dev/ra0f has an
> undefined inconsistency (during fsck). It tells me to run fsck
> manually, then aborts before starting the daemons.
What aborts? If by 'abort' you mean that the process of the system
coming up ceases and you get dropped into a single user shell then
that's exactly what should happen.
> I have dchecked, ichecked and fscked /dev/ra0f, and it seems to
> be a happy partition.
Ok - at that point if a manual "fsck /dev/rra0f" (and you should be
using the raw (rra) form of the device) works, then all you need to
do is hit a ^D and the system will finish coming up to a multi user
state.
Hmmm - I think we'll need some more information before hazarding a
guess as to what's not working right. The contents of /etc/fstab
and the current disklabel would be good starting points.
> ra0f starts on an even cylinder boundary. It has one file which
> occupies some 54% of the space on it.
> reboot -f brings everything up normally.
Well, yes, it will - by bypassing all filesystem checks. Usually
that'll work ok - but it's not something to do after a crash or
a power failure.
> this boo-boo. Looking through the man pages did not point me in
> any yet untried direction. I did encounter a 'bad block' on /dev/ra0d,
Hmmm - a bad block? Shouldn't be related to anything in ra0f unless
you've accidentally created overlapping partitions. If that were
the case though I'd expect massive and widespread corruption.
What was the error when the bad block was encountered? If this is
an MSCP disk you'll need to find the MicroPDP-11 Formatter and
see if it will revector the bad sector for you (BSD MSCP drivers
can not do this - probably just as well because I've heard it's
fiendishly difficult and if you get it wrong you've hosed your
drive).
Steven Schultz
sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com
I've recently been deluging the list with problems and obseervations
concerning the v6 kernel. Most recently, I discussed the putchar()
routine in /usr/sys/ken/prf.c, which prints messages only if the front
panel switches are set appropriately. I modified that routine by
commenting out an if, so the messages would always be sent to the
console regardless.
Having edited prf.c and rebuilt the kernel, I was suprised to find no
change in the behavior on bootup. Comparing the 'new' and 'old'
kernels (with cmp) showed them to be the same. The problem then is
that the kernel was not being rebuilt correctly.
Accordingly I removed all .o files, and the files /usr/sys/lib1 and
/usr/sys/lib2. I rebuilt again. The lib1 and lib2 files do not build
directly from the /usr/sys/run script, but rather use "ar r" to
replace the files in the libraries with the newly-built object
files. Thus I had to manually build the libraries. NOTE: it is
important to get the object files into the library in the correct
order -- I simply copied the order as for the distributed files...
I remember using tsort and lorder for Minix to determine library
component ordering, but I forget how that works ;)
Having rebuilt everything, not only did the messages print, but also
the second KL11 magically worked. Thus what I had been doing all along
was OK, but the kernel was not being properly built using all the new
object files.
Summary - to set up a second DL11 (configured as the first "local"
interface):
1) ed /usr/sys/dmr/kl.c
changing NKL11 to 2
2) modify /usr/sys/run to call mkconf with the additional
parameter:
1kl
3) Bob, so to speak, is your uncle.
Be sure everyhing is rebuilt.
I wonder if there is a bug in "ar r", whereby certain files fail to be
inserted into the library, so that old versions persist. Using the "ar
rv" verbose option may be wise ...
Hope this info is useful to those mad enough to want to use v6 ;)
Thanks for all your help.
Next project --- port the v7 shell to v6. Hmmmmmmmmm.
Bob
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners Osney Laboratory
rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science
University of Oxford
01865 288762
Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Linux - the only choice
"I'd rather stay a child
and keep my self respect,
if being an adult
means being like you" Jello Biafra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus(a)crl.com> Thu Dec 7 11:31:36 1995
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Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 17:31:36 -0800 (PST)
From: "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus(a)crl.com>
To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Undefined Inconsistency
Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.951206171925.116A-100000(a)crl14.crl.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Greetings:
When I do a "reboot" the system declares that /dev/ra0f has an
undefined inconsistency (during fsck). It tells me to run fsck
manually, then aborts before starting the daemons.
I have dchecked, ichecked and fscked /dev/ra0f, and it seems to
be a happy partition.
ra0f starts on an even cylinder boundary. It has one file which
occupies some 54% of the space on it.
reboot -f brings everything up normally.
reboot worked at least twice without finding any faults prior to
this boo-boo. Looking through the man pages did not point me in
any yet untried direction. I did encounter a 'bad block' on /dev/ra0d,
the /usr partition, while doing a make clean in usr/src/sys, but this
turned out to be bogus, and did not involve ra0f. Coincidence or ?
All hints appreciated...
*************************************************************************
* A Personal Message from * BASILISK *
* Danny R. Brown * "Try our other fine flavors!" *
* ( sysyphus(a)crl.com ) * (404) 392-1691 *
* Pager:(404)397-0516 * LYNC host mode *
*************************************************************************
