TUHS

tuhs@tuhs.org

6 participants
6532 discussions

by mxs46＠k2.scl.cwru.edu

When I wrote in a previous message: > Actually, gcc is even worse than a mere mortal, > since it's GNU. It comes directly from the Inferno. I didn't know that Lucent has a product named Inferno, as some people have pointed out to me. In any case, I meant the actual Inferno, also known as Hell, i.e., the fifth dimension of the Universe inhabited and ruled by Satan, not the Lucent product. Sincerely, Michael Sokolov Phone: 440-449-0299 (Home) 216-217-2579 (Cellular) ARPA Internet SMTP mail: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA06745 for pups-liszt; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 14:27:45 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Tue Nov 24 13:27:57 1998 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA06740 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 14:27:36 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA04039; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 14:27:57 +1100 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199811240327.OAA04039(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Re: BSD Network Version 2 upload To: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu (Michael Sokolov) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 14:27:57 +1100 (EST) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) In-Reply-To: <199811240218.VAA17230(a)skybridge.scl.cwru.edu> from Michael Sokolov at "Nov 23, 98 09:18:03 pm" Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk In article by Michael Sokolov: > Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> writes: > > I'll check with SCO [what their stance is on the Net/2 tape] > > That's a good idea. Please let us know what they say. Dion at SCO doesn't even know what Net/2 is. I've sent him some details. He wants to know exactly what the settlement was between USL and UCB in regards to the Net/2 tape. I don't have the exact particulars here (just a News article from Keith Bostic), so I've asked Kirk if he could give me the exact ruling. I'll pass on any words from SCO to the mailing list as I receive them. Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA06960 for pups-liszt; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 14:50:10 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f >From Dave Horsfall <dave(a)fgh.geac.com.au> Tue Nov 24 13:47:41 1998 Received: from caveman.geac.com.au (caveman.geac.com.au [203.30.73.2]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA06955 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 14:50:01 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from dave(a)fgh.geac.com.au) Received: (qmail 31771 invoked from network); 24 Nov 1998 02:53:55 -0000 Received: from brane.geac.com.au (202.6.67.115) by caveman.geac.com.au with SMTP; 24 Nov 1998 02:53:55 -0000 Received: from fgh.geac.com.au by brane.geac.com.au with smtp\n (Smail3.1.29.1 #3) id m0zi9RP-0003pFC; Tue, 24 Nov 98 14:47 AEDT Received: from localhost (dave@localhost) by fgh.geac.com.au (SMI-8.X/SVR4) with ESMTP id OAA06899 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 14:47:42 +1100 Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 14:47:41 +1100 (EST) From: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)fgh.geac.com.au> X-Sender: dave@fgh cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: What *was* the Tahoe? In-Reply-To: <199811231820.NAA16912(a)skybridge.scl.cwru.edu> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.03.9811241432560.399-100000@fgh> X-No-Archive: Yes X-Witty-Saying: "Tesseract - Enter at own risk" X-Disclaimer: "Me, speak for us?" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Michael Sokolov wrote: > I have noticed that the Tahoe architecture is big-endian (I use this to > easily tell between VAX and Tahoe binaries and filesystem dumps). Is this > what you mean? Or is there any more backwardness? It's basically a big-endian Vax. When disassembling code, I never knew whether to wear my Vax hat or my Motorola hat :-) I believe that the Harris 7, the ICL Clan etc were just badge-engineered. Nice machine, and no relation to the CCI 5/32 and the 5/32X (680x0) other than the manufacturer. > At least the FPU card was optional, since the Tahoe code in BSD has a > emulator for it. And the Ethernet card cost AU$10,000 (ca. 80s). It had a STUPID ribbon cable connector to the D15 socket; misalign it by one pin (easy to do), since there was no key; you had to count 13 pins down) and you blew the card. I did, once... -- Dave Horsfall VK2KFU dave(a)geac.com.au Ph: +61 2 9978-7493 Fx: +61 2 9978-7422 Geac Computers P/L (FGH Division) 2/57 Christie St, St Leonards 2065, Australia Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA09053 for pups-liszt; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 17:50:38 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f

26 years, 7 months

Re: BSD Network Version 2 upload

by mxs46＠k2.scl.cwru.edu

Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> writes: > I'll check with SCO That's a good idea. Please let us know what they say. Sincerely, Michael Sokolov Phone: 440-449-0299 (Home) 216-217-2579 (Cellular) ARPA Internet SMTP mail: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA06533 for pups-liszt; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:07:12 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f

26 years, 7 months

Re: BSD Network Version 2 upload

by mxs46＠k2.scl.cwru.edu

Rick Copeland <rickgc(a)calweb.com> writes: > I have just put BSD Network Version 2 up on Minnie in the incoming > directory. Warren, I think this one should go into minnie's anonymous FTP area, since it does not require a UNIX license and was specifically designed to be publicly distributable. I didn't do any repacking on it in my home directory, since it's just one big tarball. I've done a tar tvf on the tarball, though, and the listing produced is in /usr/home/msokolov/NET2.lst on minnie. Sincerely, Michael Sokolov Phone: 440-449-0299 (Home) 216-217-2579 (Cellular) ARPA Internet SMTP mail: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA05240 for pups-liszt; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:16:26 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Tue Nov 24 08:17:39 1998 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA05234 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:16:14 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA03246; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:17:39 +1100 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199811232217.JAA03246(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Re: 4.3/4.4 IBM distributions (need history) To: rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:17:39 +1100 (EST) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) In-Reply-To: <199811231709.MAA09886(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> from "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" at "Nov 23, 98 12:09:28 pm" Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk In article by User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys: > I am curious, though, about the releases of BSD for the old RT. > I have uncovered three discrete distributions, one labelled IBM, > and two non-labelled, but which were apparently out of IBM or related > to IBM in some way, maybe after IBM dropped AOS, but I am not sure. > The background of it all is a mystery. > > Is there any interest on the list to archive the ports that I have? > Warren? I tell you what, Bob. I'll mirror whatever you've got :-) But you'll have to organise it and write the READMEs! Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA05265 for pups-liszt; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:18:02 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Tue Nov 24 08:19:29 1998 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA05260 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:17:55 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA03263 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:19:30 +1100 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199811232219.JAA03263(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: 4BSD bloat Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:19:29 +1100 (EST) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au In-Reply-To: <199811231747.MAA16896(a)skybridge.scl.cwru.edu> from Michael Sokolov at "Nov 23, 98 12:47:58 pm" Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk In article by Michael Sokolov: >I have heard jokes that CSRG got Microsoft to rewrite 90% of the code for them. >Seriously, though, the bloat starts in Reno and really gets out of hand in 4.4. >The sources are bloated just as much as the binaries, so I wouldn't blame it >just on the compiler or the libraries. I can hear Steven Schultz say that the address space limitations of a 16-bit architecture help to minimise software bloat :-) Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA05725 for pups-liszt; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:44:18 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f >From Rick Copeland <rickgc(a)calweb.com> Tue Nov 24 09:53:48 1998 Received: from mail.calweb.com (mail.calweb.com [208.131.56.12]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA05720 for <pups(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU>; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:44:03 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from rickgc(a)calweb.com) Received: by mail.calweb.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id PAA01899; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:43:52 -0800 (PST) X-SMTP: helo rgc from rickgc(a)calweb.com server @12.22.0.83 ip 12.22.0.83 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19981123155338.00935c40(a)pop.calweb.com> X-Sender: rickgc(a)pop.calweb.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:53:48 -0800 To: pups(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU From: Rick Copeland <rickgc(a)calweb.com> Subject: Upload BSD4.3 Rev. 2, Foreign Master Cc: wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk Dear PUPS list, I have up loaded to Minnie the "BSD4.3 Revision 2 for VAX, Foreign Master" passed to me by Mr. Kirk McKusick. This tape image is zipped with WinZip 6.22 and includes a readme file. Sincerely, Rick Copeland Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA06184 for pups-liszt; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:03:08 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Tue Nov 24 11:04:26 1998 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA06179 for <pups(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU>; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:02:58 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA03819; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:04:26 +1100 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199811240104.MAA03819(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Re: Upload BSD4.3 Rev. 2, Foreign Master To: rickgc(a)calweb.com (Rick Copeland) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:04:26 +1100 (EST) Cc: pups(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19981123155338.00935c40(a)pop.calweb.com> from Rick Copeland at "Nov 23, 98 03:53:48 pm" Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk In article by Rick Copeland: > Dear PUPS list, > > I have up loaded to Minnie the "BSD4.3 Revision 2 for VAX, Foreign Master" > passed to me by Kirk McKusick. > Rick Copeland It's now available in Distributions/4bsd/43rev2 in the PUPS Archive. Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA06315 for pups-liszt; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:21:31 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f >From James Lothian <simul8(a)simul8.demon.co.uk> Tue Nov 24 11:15:24 1998 Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA06309 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:21:22 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from simul8(a)simul8.demon.co.uk) Received: from [212.228.120.103] (helo=SONAR) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.053 #1) id 0zi7AG-0001Y2-00 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 01:21:12 +0000 Received: by SONAR with Microsoft Mail id <01BE1748.F7E9EE60@SONAR>; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 01:22:57 -0000 Message-ID: <01BE1748.F7E9EE60@SONAR> From: James Lothian <simul8(a)simul8.demon.co.uk> To: "pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au" <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: RE: 4.3-VAX distributions Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 01:15:24 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk Just thought I'd throw my oar in: my 11/750 is currently running a version of 4.3 taken off a set of tapes I saved from being thrown out by a Uni department I used to work for. The labels on the tapes say: Ultrix 4.3+NFS Wisconsin UNIX 1/15/87 And another label says: * The contents of this tape are distributed to UNIX/32V, System 3 or System 5, and SUN 3.0 NFS licencees only, subject to your software agreement with AT&T (Western Electric), your license agreement with the Regents of the University of California, and your license agreement with SUN Microsystems. * The University of Wisconsin - Madison Computer System Laboratory assumes no responsibility for unauthorized use of these contents by non-licensed entities. RCS strings seem to indicate that the code was maintained by someone called Tad Lebeck. As far as I can tell, it's mainly a fairly stock early 4.3 with no disk-labels, with all the sun rpc/yp/nfs stuff grafted on and a whole lot of bugs that I've had no end of fun fixing. Does anybody know anything about the history of this version? In particular, does it bear any real relation to Ultrix, or is the tape just mis-labelled? If anybody else out there is running this thing and wonders why ptrace(2) causes such mayhem, or why portmap crashes when they try to run YP, I'd be happy to supply patches.... James Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA06440 for pups-liszt; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:49:02 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f >From "Eric Edwards" <eekg(a)ix.netcom.com> Tue Nov 24 11:40:51 1998 Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.10]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA06435 for <PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU>; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:48:44 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from eekg(a)ix.netcom.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA20720 for <PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU>; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 19:48:00 -0600 (CST) Received: from roc-ny1-13.ix.netcom.com(199.183.209.45) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma020559; Mon Nov 23 19:47:10 1998 Message-ID: <002e01be174b$8a9ec6c0$2dd1b7c7(a)#eekg.ix.netcom.com> From: "Eric Edwards" <eekg(a)ix.netcom.com> To: <PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: What *was* the Tahoe? Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 20:40:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk The Power 6/32 Tahoe was a product of Computer Consoles Inc. (CCI). The internal codename was "Tahoe", as all the CCI processors were named after lakes in the US (others I can remember were Erie and Huron). It was originally intended to compete with the VAX-11/780 - depending on the benchmark it was 5 to 10 times faster than the VAX and much smaller and cheaper. The base processor consisted of 5 boards - implemented with AMD 2900 series bit slice processors, PLAs and 74F series parts. Surprisingly the bit-slice processors were used in the MMU - the actual ALU was 74F181s. It was a big endian machine that was sort of a cross between a VAX and a Motorola 68K. As mentioned elsewhere, it is rumored that if you swap the nibbles in the instruction bytes they end up the same as the VAX... I think it also had some odd features: the cache was on the processor side of the mmu -- so it was indexed by virtual address and instructions were cached in microcode form. As guessed from the lack of boot blocks, there was another board in the system -- the Console Processor (CP). It was a 68000 based Versabus single board computer. The boot monitor understood BSD filesystems on both tape and disk. It basically loaded the microcode into the CPU, loaded the boot image (/boot?) into memory, and then started the main CPU. CCI ported 4.2BSD to run on the Tahoe and the changes were rolled into the 4.3-Tahoe version. They also ran System V (including a dual processor version) and CCI's own fault-tolerant Unix - Perpos. I think the last of the Berkeley Tahoe machines ended up at Rochester Institute of Technology's Computer Science House (http://www.csh.rit.edu) Some guys up there were attempting to do some work with 4.4BSD and the Tahoe. I can probably dig up more information if anyone needs it... -----Original Message----- From: SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> To: PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU <PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU> Date: Sunday, November 22, 1998 6:47 PM Subject: What *was* the Tahoe? > What is the "Tahoe"? >Tim. (shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com) > Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA06491 for pups-liszt; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:04:41 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f >From SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> Sun Nov 22 18:47:00 1998 Received: from cornelius.INS.CWRU.Edu (root(a)cornelius.INS.CWRU.Edu [129.22.8.216]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA06486 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:04:32 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu) Received: from k2.cwru.edu (k2.SCL.CWRU.Edu [129.22.32.50]) by cornelius.INS.CWRU.Edu with SMTP (8.8.8+cwru/CWRU-3.4) id VAA13725; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 21:04:27 -0500 (EST) (from mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>) Received: from skybridge.scl.cwru.edu by k2.cwru.edu (8.6.12/SMI-SVR4) id VAA27293; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 21:08:09 -0500 Received: by skybridge.scl.cwru.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id VAA17227; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 21:17:16 -0500 Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 21:17:16 -0500 From: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu (Michael Sokolov) Message-Id: <199811240217.VAA17227(a)skybridge.scl.cwru.edu> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: BSD Network Version 2 upload Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk J. Joseph Max Katz <jkatz(a)cpio.net> writes: > Does Net/2 produce a completely working binary system? No. It contains only the sources, and if you try to build it, you'll get stuck immediately because about half of the source files were simply deleted. Sincerely, Michael Sokolov Phone: 440-449-0299 (Home) 216-217-2579 (Cellular) ARPA Internet SMTP mail: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA06512 for pups-liszt; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:05:26 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f

26 years, 7 months

Re: Reno (was Re: What *was* the Tahoe?)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< U.S. called Tahoe/Reno. The BSD developers probably thought "OK, we alre < have Tahoe, let's have Reno too." Reno also probably stands for < "renovation", although IMHO sawing the branch you are sitting on is pret < damn stupid and certainly doesn't qualify as "renovation". Tahoe is Lake Tahoe California, Reno is in Nevada. The connection is the two of the cities are connected by I80, The same road you'd take to get from Boston to Berkeley. Lake Tahoe is a resort area in the mountains about 50miles (or so) west of Reno. In those cities sawing the branch your sitting on may well be a paying bet or a reason to party. Allison Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA04837 for pups-liszt; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 07:25:36 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f >From Rick Copeland <rickgc(a)calweb.com> Tue Nov 24 06:34:05 1998 Received: from mail.calweb.com (mail.calweb.com [208.131.56.12]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA04832 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 07:25:22 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from rickgc(a)calweb.com) Received: by mail.calweb.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id MAA02213; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:24:11 -0800 (PST) X-SMTP: helo rgc from rickgc(a)calweb.com server @12.22.0.83 ip 12.22.0.83 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19981123123403.0091b220(a)pop.calweb.com> X-Sender: rickgc(a)pop.calweb.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:34:05 -0800 To: allisonp(a)world.std.com (Allison J Parent), pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au From: Rick Copeland <rickgc(a)calweb.com> Subject: Re: Reno (was Re: What *was* the Tahoe?) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk At 02:37 PM 11/23/98 -0500, Allison J Parent wrote: >< U.S. called Tahoe/Reno. The BSD developers probably thought "OK, we alre >< have Tahoe, let's have Reno too." Reno also probably stands for >< "renovation", although IMHO sawing the branch you are sitting on is pret >< damn stupid and certainly doesn't qualify as "renovation". > >Tahoe is Lake Tahoe California, Reno is in Nevada. The connection is >the two of the cities are connected by I80, The same road you'd take to >get from Boston to Berkeley. Lake Tahoe is a resort area in the mountains >about 50miles (or so) west of Reno. > >In those cities sawing the branch your sitting on may well be a paying >bet or a reason to party. > >Allison Well since I live so close to Lake Tahoe and Reno (Sacramento is half way between Tahoe and Berkeley) I have got to get my two cents in here. My guess is that Berkeley is well known as a pro party University and Reno and Tahoe are the main party spots on the west cost! Sounds right to me! Rick Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA04939 for pups-liszt; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:04:14 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f

26 years, 7 months

Re: Reno (was Re: What *was* the Tahoe?)

by mxs46＠k2.scl.cwru.edu

Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> writes: > That's useful. The Tahoe-specific documentation also mentions > the Harris HCX-7, the Unisys 7000/40, and ICL Clan 7 - were > these in any way compatible with the Tahoe, or just "other" > ports? Well, they have to be compatible somehow, since the same BSD tape was used for all of them. Actually, there is much more to it. The Tahoe architecture was specifically designed for BSD. CCI first made a vendor release for their machines, kinda like SunOS and Ultrix, based on 4.2BSD. Then some time after the 4.3BSD release CSRG designed to integrate CCI's changes into the mainstream BSD tree. The result was named 4.3BSD-Tahoe. What's interesting is that 4.3BSD-Tahoe does not have any bootblocks for the Tahoe architecture, and the documentation often refers to the BSD kernels being loaded by the system ROM on Tahoe. As you can imagine, having the system ROM load your OS's kernels is one hell of a requirement, and the Harris and Unisys machines would have to REALLY compatible with the CCI for this to work. My guess would be that they were identical clones, just like the PC clones that run unmodified PC-DOS. > And where does "Reno" come from, while we're at it? If I'm not mistaken, there is a city somewhere on the west side of the U.S. called Tahoe/Reno. The BSD developers probably thought "OK, we already have Tahoe, let's have Reno too." Reno also probably stands for "renovation", although IMHO sawing the branch you are sitting on is pretty damn stupid and certainly doesn't qualify as "renovation". Sincerely, Michael Sokolov Phone: 440-449-0299 (Home) 216-217-2579 (Cellular) ARPA Internet SMTP mail: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA04486 for pups-liszt; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 05:49:13 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f >From "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Tue Nov 24 04:42:50 1998 Received: from seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu [152.1.88.4]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA04481 for <pups(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU>; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 05:49:04 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu) Received: (from rdkeys@localhost) by seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA10244; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:42:50 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from rdkeys) From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Message-Id: <199811231842.NAA10244(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Subject: Re: 4.3/4.4 IBM distributions (need history) In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.981123125810.17938D-100000(a)grant.transarc.com> from Pat Barron at "Nov 23, 98 01:05:13 pm" To: pat(a)transarc.com (Pat Barron) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:42:50 -0500 (EST) Cc: pups(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk > I think there were some additional licensing restrictions on AOS (e.g., > only available to educational institutions), so it might not be > includable in the archive. I can probably track down folks in Palo Alto > who worked AOS, and find out. It might be good to find out any info or history or whatever, if anyone still knows anything. If IBM does not particularly want it, it might be nice to add to the archives, as an educational one-up on Gates. > As far as I know, there was never an "official" ACIS release beyond the > 1988 4.3BSD release. I have actual distribution tapes around somewhere, > and could probably make tape images available if it's determined that > that's OK. Then what are the `Reno' and `Lite' builds that I have. I was assuming they were all related, or were there other ports done outside IBM? Now I am less clear on what it is I actually have...... > P.S. We just dumpster-ized about 6 or 8 RTs from our storage facility > in the last couple of weeks - I had tried to give them away, but > the person who was lined up to take them didn't move quite fast > enough, and the person assigned to storage clean-up got tired of > having them around ... :-( Darn! Always one step behind and two weeks late..... If there are any leftover AOS docs, or any leftover boards, particularly the external ESDI, SCSI, TAPE, or ethernet boards, or any leftover mice, that would be nice to locate. Also, a spare tape drive would not hurt. Dupster fodder......(:+{{..... Bob Keys Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA04591 for pups-liszt; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 06:17:42 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f >From Rick Copeland <rickgc(a)calweb.com> Tue Nov 24 05:27:21 1998 Received: from mail.calweb.com (mail.calweb.com [208.131.56.12]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA04586 for <pups(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU>; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 06:17:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from rickgc(a)calweb.com) Received: by mail.calweb.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id LAA10904 for <pups(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU>; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:17:27 -0800 (PST) X-SMTP: helo rgc from rickgc(a)calweb.com server @12.22.0.83 ip 12.22.0.83 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19981123112715.0092ed20(a)pop.calweb.com> X-Sender: rickgc(a)pop.calweb.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:27:21 -0800 To: pups(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU From: Rick Copeland <rickgc(a)calweb.com> Subject: BSD Network Version 2 upload Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk PUPS List, I have just put BSD Network Version 2 up on Minnie in the incoming directory. This is from a tape passed to me from Mr. Kirk McKusick. The file includes a readme and is zipped with WinZip version 6.22. Sincerely, Rick Copeland Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA04712 for pups-liszt; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 06:37:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f

26 years, 7 months

Re: What *was* the Tahoe?

by mxs46＠k2.scl.cwru.edu

Dave Horsfall <dave(a)fgh.geac.com.au> writes: > And, as I recall (I used to work for STC Australia who sold 'em) it > had the instruction set of a Vax [...] Aha! I always suspected that the Tahoe architecture was somehow related to VAXen, I just didn't know how. Now we all know... > [...] but backwards, if you know what I > mean... I have noticed that the Tahoe architecture is big-endian (I use this to easily tell between VAX and Tahoe binaries and filesystem dumps). Is this what you mean? Or is there any more backwardness? > The CPU was five boards, something like integer card plus > FPU card plus priority arbitrator card etc. At least the FPU card was optional, since the Tahoe code in BSD has a emulator for it. Sincerely, Michael Sokolov Phone: 440-449-0299 (Home) 216-217-2579 (Cellular) ARPA Internet SMTP mail: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA04317 for pups-liszt; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 05:07:56 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f

26 years, 7 months

Re: 4.3-VAX distributions

by mxs46＠k2.scl.cwru.edu

Steven M. Schultz <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> writes: > GCC2 on a 9mb machine isn't a pretty sight so pcc is actually a "good > thing" ;) It's _ALWAYS_ a good thing, because it's DIVINE (written by Bell Labs Gods themselves), while gcc and others are mere mortals. Actually, gcc is even worse than a mere mortal, since it's GNU. It comes directly from the Inferno. Sincerely, Michael Sokolov Phone: 440-449-0299 (Home) 216-217-2579 (Cellular) ARPA Internet SMTP mail: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA04343 for pups-liszt; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 05:09:07 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f

26 years, 7 months

Re: 4.3/4.4 IBM distributions (need history)

by mxs46＠k2.scl.cwru.edu

"User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> writes: > I am curious, though, about the releases of BSD for the old RT. The University of California at Berkeley has never made any releases for IBM RT and nor will I, so there are no BSD releases for IBM RT. > There really is > a large bloat between the 4.3 and 4.4 levels in my stuff, too. What > is responsible for the differences in the bloat? I have heard jokes that CSRG got Microsoft to rewrite 90% of the code for them. Seriously, though, the bloat starts in Reno and really gets out of hand in 4.4. The sources are bloated just as much as the binaries, so I wouldn't blame it just on the compiler or the libraries. Sincerely, Michael Sokolov Phone: 440-449-0299 (Home) 216-217-2579 (Cellular) ARPA Internet SMTP mail: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA04299 for pups-liszt; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 05:06:39 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f >From Pat Barron <pat(a)transarc.com> Tue Nov 24 04:05:13 1998 Received: from mailhost2.transarc.com (mailhost2.transarc.com [158.98.14.14]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA04294 for <pups(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU>; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 05:06:23 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from pat(a)transarc.com) Received: from grant.transarc.com (grant.transarc.com [158.98.16.11]) by mailhost2.transarc.com (8.8.0/8.8.0) with SMTP id NAA05380; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:05:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:05:13 -0500 (EST) From: Pat Barron <pat(a)transarc.com> To: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> cc: pups(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU Subject: Re: 4.3/4.4 IBM distributions (need history) In-Reply-To: <199811231709.MAA09886(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.981123125810.17938D-100000(a)grant.transarc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk I think there were some additional licensing restrictions on AOS (e.g., only available to educational institutions), so it might not be includable in the archive. I can probably track down folks in Palo Alto who worked AOS, and find out. As far as I know, there was never an "official" ACIS release beyond the 1988 4.3BSD release. I have actual distribution tapes around somewhere, and could probably make tape images available if it's determined that that's OK. --Pat. P.S. We just dumpster-ized about 6 or 8 RTs from our storage facility in the last couple of weeks - I had tried to give them away, but the person who was lined up to take them didn't move quite fast enough, and the person assigned to storage clean-up got tired of having them around ... :-( Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA04329 for pups-liszt; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 05:08:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f

26 years, 7 months

Reno (was Re: What *was* the Tahoe?)

by SHOPPA＠trailing-edge.com

>Tahoe was the internal "code" name that Computer Consoles Inc used >for their Power 6/32 processor. That's useful. The Tahoe-specific documentation also mentions the Harris HCX-7, the Unisys 7000/40, and ICL Clan 7 - were these in any way compatible with the Tahoe, or just "other" ports? And where does "Reno" come from, while we're at it? Tim. (shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com) Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA04103 for pups-liszt; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 04:15:51 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f >From "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Tue Nov 24 03:09:28 1998 Received: from seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu [152.1.88.4]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA04098 for <pups(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU>; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 04:15:43 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu) Received: (from rdkeys@localhost) by seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA09886; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:09:28 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from rdkeys) From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Message-Id: <199811231709.MAA09886(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Subject: Re: 4.3/4.4 IBM distributions (need history) In-Reply-To: <199811220509.AAA16197(a)skybridge.scl.cwru.edu> from Michael Sokolov at "Nov 22, 98 00:09:52 am" To: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu (Michael Sokolov) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:09:28 -0500 (EST) Cc: pups(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk > > We all know now that Michael's on a crusade for 4.3-Tahoe, so would it be > > completely unreasonable to build 4.3-Tahoe from sources under 4.3-Reno? > > It's the most reasonable approach I can think of at the moment. > > That's close to what I'm doing. There are two differences, though. > First, I'm using Ultrix as my cross-compilation base, not 4.3BSD-Reno. (I > would say there is less of a gap between 4.3BSD-Tahoe and Ultrix than > between Tahoe and Reno. The latter is really huge, it's a gap between True > UNIX(R) and a bloated and POSIXized fallen one.) Second, what I will be > building won't be plain Tahoe, it will be Quasijarus1, i.e., Tahoe plus > KA650 support and shadow passwords from Reno and other improvements from > both later CSRG code and my own brain. SCCS will be the #1 tool in the > process. Speaking of crusades.....(:+}}.... I sometimes feel like the orphan child running BSD on the old IBM RT (I know, not a biggie vaxen iron, but that is what I have and the cap that I don). It is not too bad running 16M ram and a 20'' megapel color monitor, but the RISC processor is running around 12mhz on an ISA bus which is not very fast. I am curious, though, about the releases of BSD for the old RT. Few on the net know anything about them anymore, and docs are nil. I asked around IBM, and sort of drew dumb quizzled looks, as if it had vaporized long ago. I have uncovered three discrete distributions, one labelled IBM, and two non-labelled, but which were apparently out of IBM or related to IBM in some way, maybe after IBM dropped AOS, but I am not sure. The background of it all is a mystery. The first is a ``build 0'' thing called AOS or AOS/4.3, and it appears to be a somewhat vanilla 4.3BSD, or possibly might be as late as Tahoe. It has pcc and a Metaware C compiler, and is not very strange. Other than the compilers being somewhat broken and the time never correct, it runs well, and feels like 4.3. The second is a ``build 16'' and labelled Reno, but is running gcc and related things. My suspicion is that it is a 4.4, but I am not sure. It seems fairly plain and following the 4.4 docs pretty well. I don't think it is really Reno, but was named that by someone back in time for some developmental reason maybe having been started from a Reno tree, although I am not sure. The third is a ``build 433'' and labelled Lite, and seems to be somewhat straight 4.4 and somethat Lite (has two intermixed source trees), and is gigabyte in size, and rather strangely laid out. It may have been the last build for the RT. Unfortunately, original tapes and documents for these are long gone, and I have only been able to pick up bits and pieces here and there. I don't find mention of these ports anywhere in the usual docs, other than a slight hint that they existed at one time. Supposedly, bits are on a mystical CD that is reputed to exist, and I have heard of two actual CD's that may have survived. I have spent the last 6 months resurrecting the ports, and basically have a reliable 4.3 running, a running but somewhat broken ``Reno'' or whatever it is (of all things vi is only 99% operational because of terminal driver problems), and a broken but somewhat running ``4.4/4.4Lite'' or whatever that really is (it boots and barely stays up, but I have been working on making it stay up). Does anyone on the PUPS list remember what these things actually are, and what level they are actually at? My historical curiosity is getting the better of me, and like Michael, I tend to like the plain model-T spartan simplicity of a 4.3 style machine. There really is a large bloat between the 4.3 and 4.4 levels in my stuff, too. What is responsible for the differences in the bloat? I get binaries about half the size in 4.3 compared to the 4.4whatevers I have. Is that just a function of gcc and how it codes things or libraries? Anyway, it has been a most refreshing learning experience getting these things up and running again. Is there any interest on the list to archive the ports that I have? Warren? Out of curiosity, again, anyone else on the PUPS list running RT iron or am I the last holdout? The few RT folks that I am familiar with are all running AIX still, although they remember the BSDs. So much seems to have been lost, already, or most of the machines have become dumpster fodder. Any insights, history, or horror stories about the old RT BSD ports are most welcome. Thanks Bob Keys Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA04175 for pups-liszt; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 04:35:28 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f

26 years, 7 months

Re: 4.3-VAX distributions

by mxs46＠k2.scl.cwru.edu

Steven M. Schultz <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> writes: > Reno came with GCC though. Wrong. Reno uses pcc for both VAX and Tahoe architectures, just like 4.2, 4.3, 4.3-Tahoe, and all other True UNIX(R) releases. gcc is included in the Reno distribution _as a compressed tarball_, and it's used only for the experimental and unsupported hp300 port, and that's only because there is no pcc support for it. Sincerely, Michael Sokolov Phone: 440-449-0299 (Home) 216-217-2579 (Cellular) ARPA Internet SMTP mail: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA01241 for pups-liszt; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:40:15 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Mon Nov 23 12:26:14 1998 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0(a)MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA01235 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:40:05 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id SAA20820 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 18:26:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 18:26:14 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <199811230226.SAA20820(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: 4.3-VAX distributions Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu (Michael Sokolov) > Wrong. Reno uses pcc for both VAX and Tahoe architectures, just like > 4.2, 4.3, 4.3-Tahoe, and all other True UNIX(R) releases. gcc is included Oops - I actually fired up the uVax-II (first time in almost 3 years) and typed 'gcc' and it told me 2.5.8 But as it turns out that was something I'd added later (with much work). GCC2 on a 9mb machine isn't a pretty sight so pcc is actually a "good thing" ;) Steven Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA02007 for pups-liszt; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:05:00 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f >From Kirk McKusick <mckusick(a)mckusick.com> Mon Nov 23 16:05:13 1998 Received: from knecht.Sendmail.ORG (knecht.sendmail.org [209.31.233.160]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA02001 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:04:51 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from mckusick(a)flamingo.McKusick.COM) Received: from flamingo.McKusick.COM (root(a)flamingo.mckusick.com [209.31.233.178]) by knecht.Sendmail.ORG (8.9.2.Alpha2/8.9.2.Alpha2) with ESMTP id XAA28300; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 23:04:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from flamingo.McKusick.COM (mckusick@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flamingo.McKusick.COM (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA03948; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 22:05:14 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199811230605.WAA03948(a)flamingo.McKusick.COM> To: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu (Michael Sokolov) Subject: Re: What *was* the Tahoe? cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 22 Nov 1998 20:14:04 EST." <199811230114.UAA16563(a)skybridge.scl.cwru.edu> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 22:05:13 -0800 From: Kirk McKusick <mckusick(a)mckusick.com> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 20:14:04 -0500 From: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu (Michael Sokolov) To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: What *was* the Tahoe? Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> writes: > I've been looking over the 4.3BSD Tahoe and Reno distributions > available in the PUPS archive, and have (what I hope) is a rather > simple question: > > What is the "Tahoe"? I have been pondering over the same question for a LONG time, and I would love to know the answer to it, as would Rick Copeland. The ex-CSRG folks are probably the only people on the planet who know the answer, and it looks like Marshall Kirk McKusick is the only one of them on this list. Kirk, do you have any insight? Sincerely, Michael Sokolov Phone: 440-449-0299 (Home) 216-217-2579 (Cellular) ARPA Internet SMTP mail: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu Tahoe was the internal "code" name that Computer Consoles Inc used for their Power 6/32 processor. Many of their early changes to BSD were labelled: #ifdef tahoe to identify the 6/32 specific code. So, when we did the port we just called it Tahoe because its prime purpose was to add support for the CCI 6/32 machine. Kirk McKusick Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA02069 for pups-liszt; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:19:19 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f >From Dave Horsfall <dave(a)fgh.geac.com.au> Mon Nov 23 17:16:50 1998 Received: from caveman.geac.com.au (caveman.geac.com.au [203.30.73.2]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA02064 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:19:11 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from dave(a)fgh.geac.com.au) Received: (qmail 4403 invoked from network); 23 Nov 1998 06:22:48 -0000 Received: from brane.geac.com.au (202.6.67.115) by caveman.geac.com.au with SMTP; 23 Nov 1998 06:22:48 -0000 Received: from fgh.geac.com.au by brane.geac.com.au with smtp\n (Smail3.1.29.1 #3) id m0zhqEJ-00002RC; Mon, 23 Nov 98 18:16 AEDT Received: from localhost (dave@localhost) by fgh.geac.com.au (SMI-8.X/SVR4) with ESMTP id SAA05724 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:16:50 +1100 Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:16:50 +1100 (EST) From: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)fgh.geac.com.au> X-Sender: dave@fgh cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: What *was* the Tahoe? In-Reply-To: <199811230605.WAA03948(a)flamingo.McKusick.COM> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.03.9811231813070.22354-100000@fgh> X-No-Archive: Yes X-Witty-Saying: "Tesseract - Enter at own risk" X-Disclaimer: "Me, speak for us?" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk On Sun, 22 Nov 1998, Kirk McKusick wrote: > Tahoe was the internal "code" name that Computer Consoles Inc used > for their Power 6/32 processor. Many of their early changes to BSD > were labelled: > #ifdef tahoe > to identify the 6/32 specific code. So, when we did the port we > just called it Tahoe because its prime purpose was to add support > for the CCI 6/32 machine. And, as I recall (I used to work for STC Australia who sold 'em) it had the instruction set of a Vax, but backwards, if you know what I mean... The CPU was five boards, something like integer card plus FPU card plus priority arbitrator card etc. -- Dave Horsfall VK2KFU dave(a)geac.com.au Ph: +61 2 9978-7493 Fx: +61 2 9978-7422 Geac Computers P/L (FGH Division) 2/57 Christie St, St Leonards 2065, Australia Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA03974 for pups-liszt; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 03:38:04 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f

26 years, 7 months

Re: What *was* the Tahoe?

by mxs46＠k2.scl.cwru.edu

Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> writes: > I've been looking over the 4.3BSD Tahoe and Reno distributions > available in the PUPS archive, and have (what I hope) is a rather > simple question: > > What is the "Tahoe"? I have been pondering over the same question for a LONG time, and I would love to know the answer to it, as would Rick Copeland. The ex-CSRG folks are probably the only people on the planet who know the answer, and it looks like Marshall Kirk McKusick is the only one of them on this list. Kirk, do you have any insight? Sincerely, Michael Sokolov Phone: 440-449-0299 (Home) 216-217-2579 (Cellular) ARPA Internet SMTP mail: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA01021 for pups-liszt; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:01:58 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f

26 years, 7 months

Re: booting 4.3-reno without a tape drive

by mxs46＠k2.scl.cwru.edu

Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> writes: > For a quick work-around to make a bootable 4.3 miniroot without a > tape drive, Michael, you might consider the following (similar > tricks will work on NetBSD distributions too): > > Ingredients: > [...] > Some other operating system to write the disk from > (for example, VMS, NetBSD, BSD2.11 and a PDP-11/73/83/93 CPU, > RT-11 and any PDP-11 CPU, etc.) The last part is the problem. At this location I have only one DEC machine, and that's the KA650 I'm trying to get Ultrix on. The guy with the MV3400 (and the TK70/TQK70 pair inside it) is still out for the weekend, should hear something later this evening. If that falls through and no one helps me with a spare TQK50, I'll have to come up with another disk for this PC I'm typing this on, install FreeBSD on it, netboot NetBSD/vax, and use that to load Reno over the net onto another disk (the VAX has 5 of them). Much more painful, but still better than nothing. Sincerely, Michael Sokolov Phone: 440-449-0299 (Home) 216-217-2579 (Cellular) ARPA Internet SMTP mail: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA00612 for pups-liszt; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:30:19 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f

26 years, 7 months

Re: Minnie's new domain name

by mxs46＠k2.scl.cwru.edu

Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> writes: > Over the summer break [...] I was first thrown off by this (yesterday was officially the first snow day here in Cleveland), but then I remembered that Australia is in the southern hemisphere, so your summer is our winter, right? > I'll add some smarts to > minnie's web server and other services to remind people to make the > switch in their bookmarks, hotlinks etc. OK, will change the HostName line in my .ssh/config. I'm already using the new domain name when posting. > P.S Minnie's 2nd hard disk wedged itself sometime over the weekend. It's > back now. I hate PC hardware. Then why do you use it? Why not run the PUPS/TUHS server on a VAX running 4.3BSD-Quasijarus (or 4.3BSD or 4.3BSD-Reno if you can't wait), or maybe a PDP-11 running 2.11BSD? Sincerely, Michael Sokolov Phone: 440-449-0299 (Home) 216-217-2579 (Cellular) ARPA Internet SMTP mail: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu P.S. Your Sendmail is still putting .oz.au in the outgoing mail headers. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA00720 for pups-liszt; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:40:08 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Mon Nov 23 09:31:04 1998 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0(a)MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA00713 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:40:00 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id PAA18529 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 15:31:04 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 15:31:04 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <199811222331.PAA18529(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: 4.3-VAX distributions Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > The lifting of the filesystem limits is in Tahoe, not in Reno. When you > talk about the speed of Reno's binaries, what are you comparing it to? I > know for sure that there are no significant changes in the C compiler > between plain 4.3, Tahoe, and Reno. UH, not quite so. Unless 4.3 and Tahoe used GCC (which they did not). I'd say that there is a big difference between the 4.3 C compiler (pcc or whatever it started out as) and GCC. Tahoe, while adding support for the CCI line of computers (tried to get folks to buy one but they wouldn't go for it) did NOT use GCC (which wasn't out yet or if it was had just started making an appearance). Reno came with GCC though. The older pre-Reno compilers (being straight K&R) didn't handle prototypes - that's what you had "lint" for. Steven Schultz sms(a)Moe.2bsd.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA00729 for pups-liszt; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:41:02 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f

26 years, 7 months

Re: Minnie's new domain name

by norman＠nose.cita.utoronto.ca

Re Warren's postscript: P.S Minnie's 2nd hard disk wedged itself sometime over the weekend. It's back now. I hate PC hardware. Perhaps it's time to dig up an old PDP-11? Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA00626 for pups-liszt; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:31:02 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f

26 years, 7 months

booting 4.3-reno without a tape drive

by SHOPPA＠trailing-edge.com

Michael Sokolov wrote: > How soon will this happen? I'm all ready to go, but unfortunately >hardware problems are holding me back. I have solved the KA650 problem I >was having, but now I'm stuck because neither of the two TQK50 boards I >have works. (The drive SEEMS to work, though.) Thus the sooner I find a >working TQK50 board (or, alternatively, a working TK70/TQK70 pair), the >sooner will I make 4.3BSD-Quasijarus1. For a quick work-around to make a bootable 4.3 miniroot without a tape drive, Michael, you might consider the following (similar tricks will work on NetBSD distributions too): Ingredients: Microvax II Honest-to-goodness DEC disk or *fully* compatible 3rd-party disk. *Fully* compatible means that it must have the same MSCP media ID code and same number of tracks, sectors, and cylinders as a drive already hardwired into vaxuba/uda.c. These are the ones hardwired in: { MSCP_MKDRIVE2('R', 'A', 60), "ra60", ra60_sizes, 42, 4, 2382 }, { MSCP_MKDRIVE2('R', 'A', 70), "ra70", ra70_sizes, 33, 11, 1507 }, { MSCP_MKDRIVE2('R', 'A', 80), "ra80", ra80_sizes, 31, 14, 559 }, { MSCP_MKDRIVE2('R', 'A', 81), "ra81", ra81_sizes, 51, 14, 1248 }, { MSCP_MKDRIVE2('R', 'A', 82), "ra82", ra82_sizes, 57, 14, 1423 }, { MSCP_MKDRIVE2('R', 'C', 25), "rc25-removable", rc25_sizes, 42, 4, 302 }, { MSCP_MKDRIVE3('R', 'C', 'F', 25), "rc25-fixed", rc25_sizes, 42, 4, 302 }, { MSCP_MKDRIVE2('R', 'D', 52), "rd52", rd52_sizes, 18, 7, 480 }, { MSCP_MKDRIVE2('R', 'D', 53), "rd53", rd53_sizes, 18, 8, 963 }, { MSCP_MKDRIVE2('R', 'X', 50), "rx50", rx50_sizes, 10, 1, 80 }, Note that "rd54" is conspicuously missing, and I think the tabulated rd52/53 sizes are as appropriate on a RQDX2, *not* a RQDX3. Some other operating system to write the disk from (for example, VMS, NetBSD, BSD2.11 and a PDP-11/73/83/93 CPU, RT-11 and any PDP-11 CPU, etc.) The tape distribution of 43reno_vax from the PUPS archive. Specifically, you need these files: miniroot mdec/rdboot, from usr.tar mdec/bootra, from usr.tar etc/etc.tahoe/disktab, from src.tar Cooking directions: The miniroot wants to live in the swap ("b") partition of the drive. So your first task is to find the starting block number of the swap partition from the extracted "disktab". For example, for an RA81, the offset ("ob=") for an RA81 is 16422 blocks. So copy the miniroot onto the target drive starting at block 16422 (i.e. if you're under 2.11 BSD and you've partitioned the target drive, ra0, so that partition a covers the entire disk, do a "dd if=miniroot of=/dev/rra0a seek=16422 bs=512") In the "a" partition of the output drive you need a copy of "boot". The miniroot already has a filesystem with this in it, so the lazy thing to do is to just plop another copy of the miniroot, starting at block 0 on the output disk (i.e. "dd if=miniroot of=/dev/rra0a") You need the secondary bootstrap in blocks 1-15 of the target disk. Put this down with "dd if=bootra of=/dev/rra0a seek=1 bs=512" You need a block-0 boot block on the output disk. For a Microvax, this is rdboot. (I believe raboot is appropriate on a Unibus or BI-bus VAX). Lay this down with "dd if=rdboot of=/dev/rra0a" Now move the output disk to your Microvax II configuration, and boot: >>> b dua0/r5:1 2..1..0.. loading boot ra0: unlabeled Boot : ra(0,0,1)vmunix ra0: unlabeled 338756+108644+131004 start 0x238c 4.3 BSD Reno UNIX #1: Sat Jul 28 15:19:06 1998 PDT trent@kerberos.berkeley.edu:/usr/src/sys/GENERIC.vaxminiroot REAL MEM=16773120 und so weiter. Now, one obvious improvement to this would be to lay down a fake 4.3-ish disk label at the start of the output disk as well. This way the reliance on a fully-geometry-compatible disk might be avoided. I'll work on this in my Copious Free Time (TM). -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA00512 for pups-liszt; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:14:17 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f

26 years, 7 months

Re: 4.3-VAX distributions

by mxs46＠k2.scl.cwru.edu

Steven M. Schultz <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> writes: > All caps? Must be using a V(erbose)M(essage)S(system) confuser - didn't > know there were any left :-) :-) I'm sure you know that domain names are case-insensitive. Also note that in the InterNIC records everything is all uppercase. As far as the mail user names go, they CAN be case-sensitive, but most OSes, even UNIX (Sendmail), try to be on the safe side and ignore the case in this context. > the base 4.3 system up to and including Tahoe couldn't be cold started > on a KA630 (much less a 650 since that didn't exist yet ;)). You _had_ > to have the Ultrix 'boot' bits&pieces to work with. The 4.3 kernel > had uVax support in it but the boot stuff did not. > > With 4.3-Reno that changed but... As others have noticed the > cold start kit didn't create tapes suitable for a uVax. This change occurred in Tahoe, NOT in Reno. Trust me. If you don't, look at /usr/home/msokolov/43tahoe.cci/srcsys.tar.gz and see for yourself. > 4.3-Reno did have disklabels (the first 4.3BSD to do so) BUT the > standalone programs still had compiled in partitions. The disk label support first appears in Tahoe. Again, if you don't believe me, look at /usr/home/msokolov/43tahoe.cci. > At the time 4.3-Reno came out Ultrix was still a warmed over 4.2BSD [...] Ultrix v4.00, which I used to run on my main production VAX when my farm was on the net, has _ALL_ enhancements from 4.3BSD (including DNS and DBM passwd files) and most enhancements from Tahoe (including MX record support in Sendmail). Its disk label mechanism is rumored to be incompatible with Tahoe's, though (haven't had a chance to test this for myself). > [...] that DEC had corrupted > with System V(anilla) bolted on contamination. Here I agree wholeheartedly! But hey, just ignore all SysVile and DEC additions and pretend it's 4.3BSD! That's what I did. > 4.3-Reno was a transitional experiment that happened just as the CSRG > and DEC had a serious falling out - and DEC support (Vaxen) vanished > at that point. Any further work (4.4BSD) totally and completely > ignored all DEC machines. This pulled the thread that was holding everything together. Reno was the beginning of the destructive process that eventually and inevitably led to the disbanding of CSRG. Reno is the beginning of the end. One of the main reasons I don't do Reno. > Yep - you get NFS (which no 4BSD had prior to Reno). True. I will have to hack NFS into Quasijarus somehow at some point. This is not for Quasijarus1, though. Sincerely, Michael Sokolov Phone: 440-449-0299 (Home) 216-217-2579 (Cellular) ARPA Internet SMTP mail: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA00216 for pups-liszt; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:30:34 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f

26 years, 7 months

Re: 4.3-VAX distributions

by mxs46＠k2.scl.cwru.edu

Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> writes: > Exactly. The details are all in tmscpboot.c. Prepend this to the > "tape directory", write it to TK50, B MUA0, and you're at the "=" > prompt, from which you can execute the standalone images. I know this. > "format" seems to crash badly [...] Of course! The documentation says clearly that it's for hp (780/750/8600 MASSBUS and clones) and up (RH-11 and clones) disks. > [...] but one probably doesn't need that on a Q-bus > machine :-). Has nothing to do with Q-bus, it's the distinction between SMDish disks and MSCP. But yes, for MSCP you are supposed to use the controller-specific diagnostics for formatting. For DEC ones it's a pain, but most (all?) third-party MSCP controllers have formatting utilities in their ROMs. > There are other ways to start it up. For example, using an already- > running OS (some other Unix or VMS) and copying the miniroot from tape > to the swap area of an unused disk. Here is my preferred way. It requires at least two disks. First boot from an Ultrix tape. That's the easiest thing in the world probably (assuming working hardware, of course, which I don't have right now). When you get a choice between quick installation, custom installation, and maintenance, choose the last one. This will drop you into the shell. Now you have Ultrix running in a RAM disk, you can do anything you want with your disks, and you can pull the Ultrix tape out and do anything you want with the tape drive. Then you put the BSD tape in, advance to the second file (the miniroot) with mt fsf, and dd it to partition c on one of the disks. Why partition c and not partition b? Why need two disks in the first place? Because I can bet that Ultrix and BSD will have different ideas about the default location of partition b. Then extract mdec/rdboot and mdec/bootra from the /usr tar image on the tape, cat them together, and dd them to the beginning of partition c (the miniroot as shipped doesn't have a bootblock). Then reboot from that disk. Now you have BSD running! Disklabel the other disk the way you want. This will put the bootblocks on it automatically. Then create the root and /usr filesystems on it and restore them from the tape. You are all set! True, this method imposes additional requirements (two disks and an Ultrix tape). It's also a little cumbersome (the part about the miniroot bootblocks). However, it has two advantages over the method with the tmscpboot tape. First, you can use the stock BSD tape, not a hacked one. Second, even in Reno tmscpboot supports only KA630 and not KA650. If you know VAX assembly language (I don't yet) and have a machine where you can rebuild it, you can fix this, but again you have extra requirements. Of course, the proper solution is to significantly redesign BSD's installation mechanism and make it a little more like Ultrix's. That's my plan for Quasijarus2, although Quasijarus1 will still be like Tahoe/Reno. > The compiled-in partition tables used during an install are a real > pain compared to, say, a 2.11BSD installation, where disklabel is > a standalone utility! (That's a real win, Steven!) I agree wholeheartedly! A standalone disklabel program is part of my plan for Quasijarus2. Again, Quasijarus1 will still be like Tahoe/Reno. > Gees, looking at the install docs there are some very real improvements > in Reno, especially in the filesystem and the speed of recompiled > code. The lifting of the filesystem limits is in Tahoe, not in Reno. When you talk about the speed of Reno's binaries, what are you comparing it to? I know for sure that there are no significant changes in the C compiler between plain 4.3, Tahoe, and Reno. Sincerely, Michael Sokolov Phone: 440-449-0299 (Home) 216-217-2579 (Cellular) ARPA Internet SMTP mail: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA00292 for pups-liszt; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:40:18 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Mon Nov 23 08:41:31 1998 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA00282 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:40:08 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA29811; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:41:31 +1100 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199811222241.JAA29811(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Re: Minnie's new domain name To: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu (Michael Sokolov) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:41:31 +1100 (EST) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) In-Reply-To: <199811220300.WAA16161(a)skybridge.scl.cwru.edu> from Michael Sokolov at "Nov 21, 98 10:00:59 pm" Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk In article by Michael Sokolov: > Dear Warren, > > I see you started changing *.adfa.oz.au to *.adfa.edu.au. Should we all > start changing this in our notes, aliases, links, etc? And just out of > curiosity, what's changing? What did OZ.AU mean? Did it mean Australian > universities or what? Are you changing to EDU because that's what everyone > else uses? > > And while we are at it, what's ADFA? I thought the school's name is > UNSW, isn't it? Hi Michael, yes I should put some email out. History lesson following.... Before the Internet reached Australia, the universities had a UUCP-based mail/news system called ACSnet, where addresses were not bang-paths but @-based. The ACSnet software did the route lookups. Anyway, all ACSnet computers had a `domain' name ending in .oz, e.g kre(a)munnari.oz was a valid email address. When we finally got Internet-connected, our country suffix was .au. To make the transition easier, we just tacked it on to the end of the existing domain names, thus kre(a)munnari.oz became kre(a)munnari.oz.au More recently, to bring Australia in line with Internet conventions, .oz.au became .edu.au. Unfortunately, ADFA never bothered to do this switch until mid-way through this year. Over the summer break, I'll add some smarts to minnie's web server and other services to remind people to make the switch in their bookmarks, hotlinks etc. I'll keep it running indefinitely. ADFA is the Australian Defense Force Academy: it has military cadets as undergrads and civilians as postgrads. One half is run by the University of New South Wales and teaches normal civilian university stuff. I belong to this half. The other half is run by Defence, and teaches military history, how to shoot with guns etc. I'm not involved with that side at all :-) Cheers all, Warren P.S Minnie's 2nd hard disk wedged itself sometime over the weekend. It's back now. I hate PC hardware. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA00331 for pups-liszt; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:49:26 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f

26 years, 7 months

What *was* the Tahoe?

by SHOPPA＠trailing-edge.com

I've been looking over the 4.3BSD Tahoe and Reno distributions available in the PUPS archive, and have (what I hope) is a rather simple question: What is the "Tahoe"? It seems - based on the documentation supplied in the Tahoe-specific installation docs - that "Tahoe" generically refers to any of several VERSAbus machines in the Berkeley EECS department. The CCI (Computer Consoles Inc.) Power 6/32 is frequently mentioned as the CPU, but the Harris HCX-7, the Unisys 7000/40, and ICL Clan 7 are also mentioned. Are these all the same architecture and instruction set, or are they different? How was the CPU implemented - on a chip? On a chipset? On a board? On multiple boards? The information regarding peripherals is a bit clearer. There appear to be many different supported VERSABus SMD-drive controllers and at least one supported VERSABus 9-track controller. Are any of the Berkeley EECS Tahoe machines still up and running? How many were there? How many were outside Berkeley? Tim. (shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com) Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA01013 for pups-liszt; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:01:32 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f

26 years, 7 months

Re: 4.3-VAX distributions

by mxs46＠k2.scl.cwru.edu

Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> writes: > That would explain why I couldn't boot it, yep. Partially. You wouldn't be able to boot it on a MicroVAX by typing "B MUA0" even if it were complete. The reason is that the standard tape-making script writes the VAX-11 bootstraps on the tape, not the MicroVAX ones. The two are completely different. The big VAXen with front-end processors, microcode consoles and such can't boot from a tape by themselves. The bootstraps that appear on standard BSD distributions are designed to be loaded by manually typing in a little program from the console in hex and manually transferring control to it. The hex codes for 4 such programs (for different tape drives and controllers) appear in the installation docs. They cannot be ported to MicroVAXen, however, because they use some features that exist only on big VAXen. MicroVAXen, however, have tape boot capabilities built right into their ROMs. Much easier for the installer, needless to say. Also needless to say, the protocol the ROM tape boot code uses is completely different from the one the BSD developers have crafted for their very special purpose. Therefore, a tape needs a completely different bootstrap in order to be directly bootable on a MicroVAX. One was written for 4.3BSD-Tahoe, and it appears in the distributed /usr/mdec. There are two problems, however. First, the standard tape-making scripts don't put it on the tape. Second, it only supports KA630. When KA650 support was added, everything else was updated accordingly, but this one was apparently forgotten. In theory, the code looks generic enough to run on KA650 out of the box, but in practice it has a check for SID and refuses to run if it's not 08 (MicroVAX ii). Right now I don't know enough VAX assembly language to remove this check or extend to accept 0A (CVAX) as well. > In any event, I am now very happy to now have a bootable copy of > 4.3-Reno. (Installing as I type, AAMAF.) Do you mean the one in /usr/home/msokolov/43reno.vax? How did you get it to boot on a MicroVAX? Did you pull /usr/mdec/tmscpboot out of the tarball and make a MicroVAX boot tape? > We all know now that Michael's on a crusade for 4.3-Tahoe, so would it be > completely unreasonable to build 4.3-Tahoe from sources under 4.3-Reno? > It's the most reasonable approach I can think of at the moment. That's close to what I'm doing. There are two differences, though. First, I'm using Ultrix as my cross-compilation base, not 4.3BSD-Reno. (I would say there is less of a gap between 4.3BSD-Tahoe and Ultrix than between Tahoe and Reno. The latter is really huge, it's a gap between True UNIX(R) and a bloated and POSIXized fallen one.) Second, what I will be building won't be plain Tahoe, it will be Quasijarus1, i.e., Tahoe plus KA650 support and shadow passwords from Reno and other improvements from both later CSRG code and my own brain. SCCS will be the #1 tool in the process. > And what stands in the way of reading around the bad blocks on Kirk > McKusick's 43tahoe_cci distribution? Even though I know that Rick > Copeland doesn't have all the fancy tape recovery equipment I have in my > lab, is there some fundamental problem preventing the use of "mt fsr" > commands to skip the bad block(s) and recover the rest of the "src" and > "usr" tree? If you do this you will still miss something. OTOH, if you go to the 4.3tahoe directory on Kirk's 2nd CD-ROM, you won't miss anything, since all of /usr and /usr/src is there. I can bet that the files on that CD-ROM match the ones on the tape byte for byte. Sincerely, Michael Sokolov Phone: 440-449-0299 (Home) 216-217-2579 (Cellular) ARPA Internet SMTP mail: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA14402 for pups-liszt; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 17:04:17 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f

26 years, 7 months

Re: 4.3-VAX distributions

by SHOPPA＠trailing-edge.com

>> In any event, I am now very happy to now have a bootable copy of >> 4.3-Reno. (Installing as I type, AAMAF.) > Do you mean the one in /usr/home/msokolov/43reno.vax? How did you get it >to boot on a MicroVAX? Did you pull /usr/mdec/tmscpboot out of the tarball >and make a MicroVAX boot tape? Exactly. The details are all in tmscpboot.c. Prepend this to the "tape directory", write it to TK50, B MUA0, and you're at the "=" prompt, from which you can execute the standalone images. "format" seems to crash badly, but one probably doesn't need that on a Q-bus machine :-). There are other ways to start it up. For example, using an already- running OS (some other Unix or VMS) and copying the miniroot from tape to the swap area of an unused disk. The compiled-in partition tables used during an install are a real pain compared to, say, a 2.11BSD installation, where disklabel is a standalone utility! (That's a real win, Steven!) >First, I'm using Ultrix as my cross-compilation base, not 4.3BSD-Reno. (I >would say there is less of a gap between 4.3BSD-Tahoe and Ultrix than >between Tahoe and Reno. The latter is really huge, it's a gap between True >UNIX(R) and a bloated and POSIXized fallen one.) Gees, looking at the install docs there are some very real improvements in Reno, especially in the filesystem and the speed of recompiled code. I'm willing to live with a bit more disk space usage, especially for the promised speed benefits. It's not like KA630's or KA650's are speed demons, and big cheap disks are readily available these days. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA14819 for pups-liszt; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 20:10:10 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Sun Nov 22 19:00:06 1998 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0(a)MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA14808 for <PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU>; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 20:10:00 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id BAA06484 for PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 01:00:06 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 01:00:06 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <199811220900.BAA06484(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU Subject: Re: 4.3-VAX distributions Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com > To: PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU All caps? Must be using a V(erbose)M(essage)S(system) confuser - didn't know there were any left :-) :-) > Exactly. The details are all in tmscpboot.c. Prepend this to the > "tape directory", write it to TK50, B MUA0, and you're at the "=" Since PUPS is on a uVax kick at the moment I'll chime in with my (not so fond) memories of trying to jack 4.3-Reno onto a uVax-II. It was a perverse sort of fun but not something I'd willingly do again. Burnout? Perhaps. the base 4.3 system up to and including Tahoe couldn't be cold started on a KA630 (much less a 650 since that didn't exist yet ;)). You _had_ to have the Ultrix 'boot' bits&pieces to work with. The 4.3 kernel had uVax support in it but the boot stuff did not. With 4.3-Reno that changed but... As others have noticed the cold start kit didn't create tapes suitable for a uVax. > prompt, from which you can execute the standalone images. "format" > seems to crash badly, but one probably doesn't need that on a Q-bus > machine :-). What I ended up doing was using my 2.11BSD 11/73 to create a bootable 4.3-Reno tape for the uVax - all the pieces are there, just need a system to 'dd' the files out with the right blocking factors, usw. Then the fun really began. The SPL "probing" logic in the kernel had a small problem when probing for MSCP controllers. As I recall (and this is going back quite a few years) some 3rd party adaptors ran at a different (lower) SPL than the probing logic expected - thus the autoconfig routines raised the SPL higher than the interrupt of the (Dilog I think) controller and the whole system hung. So, to install the system you HAD to use DEC controllers - ok, I had a RQDX3 and a couple RD53 drives present (the Dilog had a 319mb Miniscribe disk). BUT 4.3-Reno had a bug in the MSCP driver and would not recognize an honest to DEC RD53 drive! This was rapidly getting to be unfun. I think the workaround (it's been a __long__ time so memory is fuzzy) was to lie and call the drive an RA60 and then correct the problem later. But to get the lie thru to the kernel I had to use the standalone 'copy' program to copy a file (created on a PDP-11) to the first couple sectors of the uVax's RD53. Sheesh! > The compiled-in partition tables used during an install are a real > pain compared to, say, a 2.11BSD installation, where disklabel is > a standalone utility! (That's a real win, Steven!) You're quite welcome. Actually 4.3-Reno served as inspiration and reminder of pain to avoid when it came time to implement 2.11BSD's disklabel capabilities. I swore I'd never go thru the pain of the kernel having labels but the standalone utilities lacking them 4.3-Reno did have disklabels (the first 4.3BSD to do so) BUT the standalone programs still had compiled in partitions. > >First, I'm using Ultrix as my cross-compilation base, not 4.3BSD-Reno. (I > >would say there is less of a gap between 4.3BSD-Tahoe and Ultrix than > >between Tahoe and Reno. The latter is really huge, it's a gap between True Can't be any version of Ultrix I ever used. At the time 4.3-Reno came out Ultrix was still a warmed over 4.2BSD that DEC had corrupted with System V(anilla) bolted on contamination. Affectionately known as Buglix ;-) That was the same era that DEC had Ultrix-11 and that was a mucked up 2.9BSD. Of course you have to realize DEC had "Mr. Ken (Unix is Snake Oil) Olsen" around at the time 8-) UNIX is still around - but DEC? No, I don't like Compaq confusers thank you ;) 4.3-Reno was a transitional experiment that happened just as the CSRG and DEC had a serious falling out - and DEC support (Vaxen) vanished at that point. Any further work (4.4BSD) totally and completely ignored all DEC machines. > Gees, looking at the install docs there are some very real improvements > in Reno, especially in the filesystem and the speed of recompiled Yep - you get NFS (which no 4BSD had prior to Reno). NFS doubles the size of the kernel though (at least) so there's a memory penalty to pay. It also brought many of the POSIX features (termios for example). > code. I'm willing to live with a bit more disk space usage, especially > for the promised speed benefits. It's not like KA630's or KA650's are speed > demons, and big cheap disks are readily available these days. Disk is cheap. Especially for older drives (but you run the risk that an old drive will die soon ;-(). Best to invest in a modern SCSI<->MSCP adaptor and use current drives (that's what I did for my 11/73 - adaptor is $$$ but the drives are cheap). Boy, you're not just whistling Dixie (apologies to those outside the US for which the reference is obscure). "Not a speed demon" doesn't begin to describe it. I went, believe it or not, thru the work of getting a newer GCC-2 (at the time I think 2.3.x was "new") to build and run on a uVax-II under 4.3-Reno. The biggest problem was that 4.3-Reno was neither "old" (V7ish) Unix or "POSIX" (just getting off the standard's writers desks). Getting GCC to build was a stop/go effort for several days but in the end the build would work: about 23 hours (or so)!! Sheesh - a 11/73 can *completely* regenerate itself from sources (all programs, manpages, etc) in about 28 hours. It was an interesting experiment but the uVax-II has sat here for 2+ years without being powered up. At one time the thought was to port 4.4BSD over but everyone that _could_ do the work lost interest - I've my PDP-11s and PPro systems to keep me busy so I haven't the time or inclination to do much with a KA630 system. For "slow" I have a PDP-11 (lots of fun, keeps you humble with the address space limits ;)). For 'fast' I have a couple dual cpu PPro systems (running BSD/OS) that can give a quad processor SUN Enterprise Server-4500 a run for their money. I have no need of a "slow" computer that attempts to run current day (bloated) software. I've toyed with the idea of swapping the innards of the 11/93 and the uVax. The KDJ11E would be a lot happier in a BA-123 than a BA-23;) But that's as far as it's gone (thinking about it). So - if anyone out there wants a uVax-II (9mb of memory but lots of disks and a 9-track tape drive to go with) drop by my place (shipping's out of the question). If you're more hardware capable than I perhaps we could swap the stuff into a BA23 (smaller enclosure to drive home, ...). Yikes and gadzooks - I was a bit verbose tonight (but my typing skills are much improved! ;-)). Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA14865 for pups-liszt; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 20:31:53 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f

26 years, 7 months

4.3-VAX distributions (was Re: The files Tim Shoppa has just uploaded)

by SHOPPA＠trailing-edge.com

> I have just logged into minnie and diffed the files Tim Shoppa has just >uploaded against the 43reno.vax distribution in my home directory. They are >identical byte for byte, Darn. And the label said it was a Tahoe distribution :-). You'll also remember that I'm the one who found the V6 RL02 packs at UBC which, despite all indications, are actually some sort of V7 system that has all the internal labels reading "V6"! > except that Tim's first file is severely >truncated. That would explain why I couldn't boot it, yep. In any event, I am now very happy to now have a bootable copy of 4.3-Reno. (Installing as I type, AAMAF.) We all know now that Michael's on a crusade for 4.3-Tahoe, so would it be completely unreasonable to build 4.3-Tahoe from sources under 4.3-Reno? It's the most reasonable approach I can think of at the moment. And what stands in the way of reading around the bad blocks on Kirk McKusick's 43tahoe_cci distribution? Even though I know that Rick Copeland doesn't have all the fancy tape recovery equipment I have in my lab, is there some fundamental problem preventing the use of "mt fsr" commands to skip the bad block(s) and recover the rest of the "src" and "usr" tree? -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA14239 for pups-liszt; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 15:57:23 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f

26 years, 7 months

The files Tim Shoppa has just uploaded

by mxs46＠k2.scl.cwru.edu

Dear PUPS/TUHS members, I have just logged into minnie and diffed the files Tim Shoppa has just uploaded against the 43reno.vax distribution in my home directory. They are identical byte for byte, except that Tim's first file is severely truncated. The first file contains the bootstraps and the standalone programs, and for Reno it's about 140 KB. Tim's first file is only 512 bytes, although these bytes exactly match the first 512 bytes in the correct first file. Resolution: the files Tim has uploaded are completely superseded by the authentic 4.3BSD-Reno/VAX distribution in /usr/home/msokolov/43reno.vax and /usr/PUPS/Distributions/4bsd/43reno.vax. Sincerely, Michael Sokolov Phone: 440-449-0299 (Home) 216-217-2579 (Cellular) ARPA Internet SMTP mail: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA13933 for pups-liszt; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 14:04:29 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f

26 years, 7 months

Re: 4.3BSD Tahoe binaries for uVax

by mxs46＠k2.scl.cwru.edu

Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> writes: > Some further clues, for anyone who's following this bit or > archeology: This is clearly a 4.3BSD-Reno tape (for VAX). I'll look at it when it's fully uploaded (you're saying it won't be until 19:00 EST, so it'll be after the X-Files I guess), but I can bet that it's identical to the one in /usr/home/msokolov/43reno.vax on minnie (read by Rick Copeland from the CSRG master provided by Marshall Kirk McKusick). > The second file on the tape has the following string in it: > > 4.3 BSD Reno UNIX #1: Sat Jul 28 15:19:06 PDT 1990 > trent@kerberos.berkeley.edu:/usr/src/sys/GENERIC.vaxminiroot The second file is the dd image of the miniroot filesystem. This string appears in the /vmunix file inside (the kernel). kerberos.berkeley.edu was a VAX. The tape in /usr/home/msokolov/43reno.vax has also been pressed from kerberos.berkeley.edu. > The third file has this string in it: > > 4.3 BSD Reno UNIX #4 Sat Jul 28 13:24:08 PDT 1990 > trent@kerberos.berkeley.edu:/nbsd/usr/src/sys/GENERIC.allvax. The third file is the dump of the full root filesystem. Again, this string appears in the /vmunix file inside. > Additionally, in the third file, there appears to be some printf-type > strigns for configuring in the different possible CPU's supported: > > VAX 8600, serial# %d(%d), hardware level %d(%d) > VAX 82%c0, hardware rev %d, ucode patch rev %d, sec patch %d, ucode rev %d > VAX 11/78%c, serial# %d(%d), hardware ECO level %d(%d) > VAX 11/750, hardware rev %d, ucode rev %d > VAX 11/730, ucode rev %d > MicroVAX-II-MicroVAX 3000, ucode rev %d This is also obviously inside /vmunix. The set of supported CPUs is the one for Reno. > So the tape sticker says "Tahoe", the miniroot and Generic root claim > to be Reno, and the fourth file (the tar archive) has the following > mentions of Tahoe and Reno: > > [names on manpage directories mentioning tahoe] It is Reno. Trust me. "tahoe" appears in the names of some manpage directories because some manpages are architecture-specific (tahoe is the name of a computer architecture, just like vax, hp300, i386, etc.). The tape is mislabeled, that's all. Sincerely, Michael Sokolov Phone: 440-449-0299 (Home) 216-217-2579 (Cellular) ARPA Internet SMTP mail: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA13713 for pups-liszt; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 12:47:28 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f

26 years, 7 months

Re: 4.3BSD Tahoe binaries for uVax

by SHOPPA＠trailing-edge.com

Some further clues, for anyone who's following this bit or archeology: The second file on the tape has the following string in it: 4.3 BSD Reno UNIX #1: Sat Jul 28 15:19:06 PDT 1990 trent@kerberos.berkeley.edu:/usr/src/sys/GENERIC.vaxminiroot The third file has this string in it: 4.3 BSD Reno UNIX #4 Sat Jul 28 13:24:08 PDT 1990 trent@kerberos.berkeley.edu:/nbsd/usr/src/sys/GENERIC.allvax. Additionally, in the third file, there appears to be some printf-type strigns for configuring in the different possible CPU's supported: VAX 8600, serial# %d(%d), hardware level %d(%d) VAX 82%c0, hardware rev %d, ucode patch rev %d, sec patch %d, ucode rev %d VAX 11/78%c, serial# %d(%d), hardware ECO level %d(%d) VAX 11/750, hardware rev %d, ucode rev %d VAX 11/730, ucode rev %d MicroVAX-II-MicroVAX 3000, ucode rev %d So the tape sticker says "Tahoe", the miniroot and Generic root claim to be Reno, and the fourth file (the tar archive) has the following mentions of Tahoe and Reno: $ sear file4.tar_list tahoe 755 0 Jul 29 06:26:47 1990 share/man/cat4/tahoe/ 444 2488 Jul 29 06:26:43 1990 share/man/cat4/tahoe/ace.0 444 3563 Jul 29 06:26:44 1990 share/man/cat4/tahoe/autoconf.0 444 1321 Jul 29 06:26:44 1990 share/man/cat4/tahoe/cons.0 444 6446 Jul 29 06:26:44 1990 share/man/cat4/tahoe/cy.0 444 4074 Jul 29 06:26:44 1990 share/man/cat4/tahoe/dr.0 444 2331 Jul 29 06:26:44 1990 share/man/cat4/tahoe/enp.0 444 4121 Jul 29 06:26:44 1990 share/man/cat4/tahoe/ik.0 444 2498 Jul 29 06:26:45 1990 share/man/cat4/tahoe/intro.0 444 386 Jul 29 06:26:45 1990 share/man/cat4/tahoe/lp.0 444 4427 Jul 29 06:26:45 1990 share/man/cat4/tahoe/mtio.0 444 9321 Jul 29 06:26:45 1990 share/man/cat4/tahoe/vd.0 444 3816 Jul 29 06:26:46 1990 share/man/cat4/tahoe/vx.0 444 2271 Jul 29 06:26:45 1990 share/man/cat4/tahoe/mem.0 444 2271 Jul 29 06:26:45 1990 share/man/cat4/tahoe/kmem.0 ---> share/man/cat4/tahoe/mem.0 755 0 Jul 4 18:49:29 1990 share/man/cat6/tahoe/ $ sear file4.tar_list reno %SEARCH-I-NOMATCHES, no strings matched If someone who is more aware of the 4.3BSD histories than I am (and I'm certain that I'm one of the least-aware folks around!) can pinpoint where in the hierarchy this tape belongs, it'd help settle a lot of my confusion! In the meantime, the FTP connection to minnie seems to be holding up admirably, and folks will be able to inspect the files for themselves sometime around 7 PM EST tonight (Saturday here - that's either tomorrow or yesterday in Australia, I can never remember which) in the directory /usr/home/shoppa/43bsd_tahoe on minnie. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA13145 for pups-liszt; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 10:13:57 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f

26 years, 7 months

Re: 4.3BSD Tahoe binaries for uVax

by SHOPPA＠trailing-edge.com

> The problem is that we (PUPS/TUHS) haven't been able to find a Tahoe >tape with VAX binaries. I think I *might* be able to provide part of the solution to this. I have in my posession here a TK50 tape hand-labeled "4.3 Tahoe BSD". Let me upload it to my directory on Minnie, and maybe with some help from you guys we'll figure out what's in it. It has been at least a year since I've looked at the contents of this tape, but I was under the impression that it consisted mainly of binaries, and had very little in the way of sources on it. I'll put images of the tape files on Minnie (hmm - a full TK50 will probably be an overnight job) and with a little luck we'll figure out how to make the next step. (I didn't know that this was a sought-after tape in the first place!) I honestly don't know if this is a VAX Tahoe distribution or for something else (MIPS, maybe?). It did fail to boot on my KA650 when I tried it, but your notes indicate that this was to be expected because it wasn't a KA630. And browsing through the contents of the tape does seem to indicate that it might be for the VAX. The tape has 4 files on it, about 50 Megabytes uncompressed, organized as follows: File 1: 1 record, 512 bytes. File 2: 205 records, 10240 bytes each. File 3: 320 records, 10240 bytes each. File 4: 2135 records, 20480 bytes each. The first block has no obvious text in it. Obvious guess is a boot block :-) The second file appears to be an executable of some sort. Running "strings" against it turns up evidence that this is some sort of standalone utility that knows how to write to devices with names like "ra1", "hp3", etc. The third file is, I would guess, the dump of a root file system. The string "/dev/ra1a" and machine name "kerberos.berkeley.edu" turn up near the beginning, and the dump of what appears to be the "/dev" directory has names such as tu0, tu1, hp0a-hp0g, rhp0a-rhp0g, etc. The fourth file is a tar archive, and appears to contain mainly binaries, with little in the way of sources. The are links in the tar archive to things like "/sys/vaxuba", "/sys/vax", etc., but the /sys directory itself isn't in the tar archive. (Would this possibly be in the third file, which I guessed is a dump of the root filesystem? The other BSD- derived distributions that I'm familiar with do not have "/sys" or "/usr/src/sys" in the root filesystem!) -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA12866 for pups-liszt; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 08:41:48 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f

26 years, 7 months

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