TUHS

tuhs@tuhs.org

46 participants
6502 discussions

by robin.birch＠postoffice.co.uk

FP11 floating point processor (I think) Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA63969 for pups-liszt; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 04:23:50 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 3 months

[pups] What is a 21-21858 chip?

by jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de

Hi. I have two PDP11/73 CPUs (M8192). On one module is the 40 pin socket empty. On the other module is a 40 pin Chip labeld 21-21858 in the socket. What chip is that? -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA59843 for pups-liszt; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 22:46:42 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 3 months

Re: [pups] RE: Unix Archive mirror site offer

by jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de

On 16 Feb, Martijn van Buul wrote: [third party disks on RQDX} > I've done exactly the same thing (but it only was an ST225, AKA RD31) on > an RQDX3 controller. You need the XXDP 2.5 diagnostic kit for that. Could this be placed in the archive? It would be nice to have this public available. > Having a couple of 5.25" HD diskdrives really helps. Some of these > drives (the older, the better ;) can be used as RX33 drive I connected a generic Mitzumi 5.25" FDD to the RQDX3 in my MicroVAX III and it just worked. Even booting from it was no problem. -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA59734 for pups-liszt; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 22:15:08 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 3 months

[pups] RE: Unix Archive mirror site offer

by Fred N. van Kempen

Warren, Good news so far. I did some work on VTserver 2.0, and added the uODT code so it uploads the PDP-11 boot code to the machine and gets it going. That works fine.. "copy" gets loaded, and I can transfer stuff from and to the machine's RX50 and RD51 units. My biggest worry next, of course, is using an emulator to emulate my machine (which is a MicroPDP-11/23, by the way) and its disks, and build a working set of file systems. Those I can then transfer to the raw disk. When playing, I noticed that the RD51 is a plain Seagate ST412 MFM drive... did anyone try to use other MFM disks with the RQDX series controllers? I can probably get some very cheap ST251 40MB drives.. ;) --fred > -----Original Message----- > From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au] > Sent: dinsdag 13 februari 2001 2:22 > To: Fred N. van Kempen > Subject: Re: Unix Archive mirror site offer > > > In article by Fred N. van Kempen: > > Here's a promise... if I can get my MicroVAX 3400 back up > (on Ultrix 4.4), > > I'll run the archive on that box... (pups.microwalt.net or > > tuhs.microwalt.net) > > so all the old stuff is hosted on old stuff... otherwise > it's going to be a > > Sun SPARCstation Classic- also an old box, but not quite as old :) > > Excellent. I believe Caldera have bought the rights to UNIX > from SCO, and > I"ve heard rumours that they might drop the ``click on the > license'' thing, > so if that happens we can make the archive available with no > passwords. > > > Also: I am working with Bill Grunshannon and Steven Schultz > on getting my > > own > > MicroPDP-11/23 back up... we need to include your VTserver > stuff into the > > Ultrix-11 source tree, recompile parts, move into binary > tree, and create a > > new tape which I can then load. Bill has a working 11/73 > with Ultrix-11 on > > it, > > and also has an 11/93 with same. > > > > My new VTserver can load in and write entire disk images now, > so it should > be usable to install an Ultrix disk image. > > http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver. > > I'll be back at work tomorrow or the nxet day. > > Cheers, > Warren > ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA58787 for pups-liszt; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 19:14:03 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> Fri Feb 16 18:11:02 2001 Received: from mud.stack.nl (mud.stack.nl [131.155.141.98]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA58783 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 19:13:59 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from martijnb(a)stack.nl) Received: by mud.stack.nl (Postfix, from userid 587) id 3C30C7F07; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:11:02 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:11:02 +0100 From: Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] RE: Unix Archive mirror site offer Message-ID: <20010216091102.A26535(a)mud.stack.nl> Reply-To: Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> References: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC32C31@MWNT4> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.3i In-Reply-To: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC32C31@MWNT4>; from Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl on Thu, Feb 15, 2001 at 04:01:45AM +0100 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > When playing, I noticed that the RD51 is a plain Seagate ST412 MFM drive... > did anyone try to use other MFM disks with the RQDX series controllers? I > can probably get some very cheap ST251 40MB drives.. ;) I've done exactly the same thing (but it only was an ST225, AKA RD31) on an RQDX3 controller. You need the XXDP 2.5 diagnostic kit for that. Having a couple of 5.25" HD diskdrives really helps. Some of these drives (the older, the better ;) can be used as RX33 drive, which greatly reduces the problem of creating a XXDP bootdisk with the needed utilities, since you can write these disks in a (second :) 5.25" drive on a standard PC. Finding a supply of 1.2 MB 5.25" disks can be a bigger problem - I'm very happy with my newly found pack of *fresh* disks. I may still have such a diskimage floating around somewhere (Yup, I seem to have). The basic idea is to low-level format the MFM drive, and make it look like a genuine DEC drive. This is a lot easier if the drives you want to use were also sold as DEC drives (which is the case with the ST251 - it's also known as the RD32). If not, you'll have to provide a lot more information about the drive - never really tried that. This said, I sucessfully low-levelled a 21MB Miniscribe (with the same CHS-layout as a ST225) using the RD31 parameters. -- Martijn van Buul - Pino(a)dohd.org - http://www.stack.nl/~martijnb/ Geek code: G-- - Visit OuterSpace: mud.stack.nl 3333 Kees J. Bot: The sum of CPU power and user brain power is a constant. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA59199 for pups-liszt; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 20:18:56 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 3 months

[pups] Checksums in the UNIX Archive

by Warren Toomey

----- Forwarded message from Fred N. van Kempen ----- Warren, False alert... Ultrix-11 V3.1 source tape file is NOT corrupted. My WinZIP was - I use NT at work, download stuff, and take it home with me, to load onto the Unix machines. The Unix boxes have no problem with the files... ----- End of forwarded message from Fred N. van Kempen ----- Hi all, I'm back from holidays. With regards to corrupt files in the UNIX Archive, yes it looks like I have had a few hit. I'll check through my old backups for a clean version of Ken Wellsch's 6th Edition disk image. There is a checksums file in the archive: /checksums, with MD5 checksums for all files. If you do suspect a file is damaged, please check to see if the MD5 checksum matches that in the /checksums file. Also, has anybody tried out the VTserver 2.0 alpha program?! I'm going to be flat out here at work for a month or two, but I will try to add support for things other than plain copying of disk images. Cheers, Warren

24 years, 3 months

[pups] /bin/ps (and /var/run/psdatabase) corrupt in installation set?

by Martijn van Buul

Oy. I kind of solved my problems with ps, just by recompiling the source.. I think I've got reasons to believe that /bin/ps as distributed in the installation set on minnie is corrupt; it only dumps core. As a side note, /var/run/psdatabase is corrupt too; normally this wouldn't matter (since ps -U recompiles this, and since ps -U is run in /etc/rc), but since ps dumps core... Anyway; If I would've known about /var/run/psdatabase, it might have prevented me from searching a non-existant bug during the last few months :) -- Martijn van Buul - Pino(a)dohd.org - http://www.stack.nl/~martijnb/ Geek code: G-- - Visit OuterSpace: mud.stack.nl 3333 Kees J. Bot: The sum of CPU power and user brain power is a constant.

24 years, 3 months

[pups] Strange problems on an uPDP 11/53+

by Martijn van Buul

After 52 days, my uPDP 11/53+ has suddenly been acting rather strange. /usr/include got 'replaced' by /usr/new, to be precise. At the time, I was the only user. Seeing this, I immediately halted the system, expecting a load of file system errors upon boot. None showed up, and /usr/include is back to itself again. However, programs which *used* to be running perfectly (like my work-in-progress ps) suddenly fail, with a "not enough memory for saving info". Any hints? -- Martijn van Buul - Pino(a)dohd.org - http://www.stack.nl/~martijnb/ Geek code: G-- - Visit OuterSpace: mud.stack.nl 3333 Kees J. Bot: The sum of CPU power and user brain power is a constant. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA70139 for pups-liszt; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:46:34 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Tue Feb 6 10:35:17 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA70135 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:46:30 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f160ZHg18114 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 16:35:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 16:35:17 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200102060035.f160ZHg18114(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Strange problems on an uPDP 11/53+ Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> > After 52 days, my uPDP 11/53+ has suddenly been acting rather strange. > /usr/include got 'replaced' by /usr/new, to be precise. At the time, Oops! > I was the only user. Seeing this, I immediately halted the system, > expecting a load of file system errors upon boot. None showed up, and > /usr/include is back to itself again. However, programs which *used* > to be running perfectly (like my work-in-progress ps) suddenly fail, > with a "not enough memory for saving info". > Any hints? How much memory is on the system now after the reboot. The only thing that pops into mind is that the system is running without enough memory. If part of the memory on the system dropped out earlier that would (possibly) explain the strange behaviour was seen. Rebooting/reseting the system would cause the system to recount memory. A program can get 'ENOMEM' as an error two ways: 1) exceeding the maximum 64KB dataspace (stack + data) or 2) the system has run out of swap or the maps ('coremap' and/or 'swapmap') have become too fragmented. Two commands that can be useful in obtaining more information are sysctl hw and pstat -s "sysctl hw" will give several lines of output - the two you'd be interested in are hw.physmem = 2097152 hw.usermem = 415744 'physmem' is the amount of memory physically present and 'usermem' is the amount current free and available for user programs. "pstat -s" will give a swap space usage summary. Steven Schultz sms(a)Moe.2bsd.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA71926 for pups-liszt; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 18:41:36 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> Tue Feb 6 17:39:28 2001 Received: from mud.stack.nl (mud.stack.nl [131.155.141.98]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA71922 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 18:41:32 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from martijnb(a)stack.nl) Received: by mud.stack.nl (Postfix, from userid 587) id D00657F08; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 08:39:28 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 08:39:28 +0100 From: Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Strange problems on an uPDP 11/53+ Message-ID: <20010206083928.A15141(a)mud.stack.nl> Reply-To: Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> References: <200102060035.f160ZHg18114(a)moe.2bsd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.3i In-Reply-To: <200102060035.f160ZHg18114(a)moe.2bsd.com>; from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com on Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 04:35:17PM -0800 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Steven M. Schultz wrote: > Hi - > > > From: Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> > > After 52 days, my uPDP 11/53+ has suddenly been acting rather strange. > > /usr/include got 'replaced' by /usr/new, to be precise. At the time, > > Oops! Well, strange things are afoot indeed. About the same time, 1 machine crashed (A DEC Alpha running OpenBSD), 2 started acting very strangely, and had to be rebooted (My PDP, and a Wintel box running Windows 2000), and a 4th machine (A Wintel box running Minix-VMD) suddenly had some problems reading his harddisk and using its network (but recovered). The strange thing is that these machines aren't related in any way but one: they're standing quite near to eachother. Do I hear EMC somewhere? > > Any hints? > > How much memory is on the system now after the reboot. 1.5 MB. 798 Kilowords. > The only thing that pops into mind is that the system is running > without enough memory. If part of the memory on the system dropped > out earlier that would (possibly) explain the strange behaviour was > seen. Rebooting/reseting the system would cause the system to > recount memory. Well, the machine had 1.5 MB before it crashed.. It's doubtlessly some memory fault, but it *seems* to be a temporal one. > > "sysctl hw" will give several lines of output - the two you'd be > interested in are > > hw.physmem = 2097152 hw.physmem = 1572864 > hw.usermem = 415744 hw.usermem = 313472 > 'physmem' is the amount of memory physically present and 'usermem' is > the amount current free and available for user programs. Should be enough. 'cc' works without problems - only my ps with debug info seems to be affected; it might not be a memory issue, but a "ps can't determine the right amount of processes"-issue.. I've checked it, and this seems to be the case. Ps thinks that there are 0 processes running, and does a outargs = (struct psout *)calloc(nproc, sizeof(struct psout)); on that. With 'nproc' being 0, this returns a NULL pointer, but doesn't mean that the process is out of memory. Having no ps is very annoying; finding back those 4 children spawned by a httpd can be a nuisance then. pstat -p works, but it isn't comfortable:) > "pstat -s" will give a swap space usage summary. 15/59 swapmap entries 910 kbytes swap used, 6263 kbytes free -- Martijn van Buul - Pino(a)dohd.org - http://www.stack.nl/~martijnb/ Geek code: G-- - Visit OuterSpace: mud.stack.nl 3333 Kees J. Bot: The sum of CPU power and user brain power is a constant. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA75027 for pups-liszt; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 03:47:05 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Wed Feb 7 02:36:03 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA75023 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 03:46:56 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f16Ga3301595; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 08:36:03 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 08:36:03 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200102061636.f16Ga3301595(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pino(a)dohd.org, sms(a)moe.2bsd.com Subject: Re: [pups] Strange problems on an uPDP 11/53+ Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi -- > Well, strange things are afoot indeed. About the same time, 1 machine... > they're standing quite near to eachother. Do I hear EMC somewhere? Time to increase the shielding around the computer room, eh? ;-) > Well, the machine had 1.5 MB before it crashed.. It's doubtlessly some > memory fault, but it *seems* to be a temporal one. I do not think it is a memory/hardware problem - that was just a guess (not a very good one at that ;)). > hw.usermem = 313472 That's fine. > Should be enough. 'cc' works without problems - only my ps with debug What about the standard 'ps' that came with the system? > info seems to be affected; it might not be a memory issue, but a "ps can't > determine the right amount of processes"-issue.. > I've checked it, and this seems to be the case. Ps thinks that there are > 0 processes running, and does a > outargs = (struct psout *)calloc(nproc, sizeof(struct psout)); Ah, ok - malloc() used to actually return a non-NULL pointer when presented with a size request of 0. That was an error and was changed (I forget the exact update/patch number). There were a couple programs in the system that relied on the old behaviour and those had to be fixed. > on that. With 'nproc' being 0, this returns a NULL pointer, but doesn't > mean that the process is out of memory. Right, the ENOMEM error was overloaded by malloc(). An argument can be made that EINVAL should have been returned instead by malloc() if 0 was passed in. > Having no ps is very annoying; finding back those 4 children spawned > by a httpd can be a nuisance then. pstat -p works, but it isn't comfortable:) Are you are using the traditional 'nlist()' method of reading the kernel symbol table to look for 'nproc' and '_proc'? If so is there a permissions problem? /dev/*mem needs to be group=kmem, mode 640, the /unix image should be mode 644 and the 'ps' program setgid to kmem. If there is a problem reading the kernel symbol table then 'nproc' will remain 0 which is what you're seeing. Another way of examining some kernel variables (proc table, file table, etc) is with the "sysctl" call. It's much faster since it doesn't have to do a sequential scan of the /unix symbol table. You can look in /usr/src/ucb/w.c at the function 'readpr()' to see how to examine the proc table using sysctl. Steve

24 years, 3 months

Re: [pups] Y2K problem in ftpd?

by robin.birch＠postoffice.co.uk

Dear All, IIRC the start of this thread stated that this was on a 2.11 system. If this was so has anyone submitted the patch to Steve Schultz for consideration as a formal update? Appologies if this has already been done. Rgds Robin Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA66960 for pups-liszt; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 04:01:38 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Tue Feb 6 02:51:34 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA66955 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 04:01:30 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f15GpYd11283 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 08:51:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 08:51:34 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200102051651.f15GpYd11283(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Y2K problem in ftpd? Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi -- > From: robin.birch(a)postoffice.co.uk > IIRC the start of this thread stated that this was on a 2.11 system. If this > was so has anyone submitted the patch to Steve Schultz for consideration as a > formal update? Don't worry - I saw the thread. Consider the patch submitted :) I did find it fascinating that the bug slipped thru since at one time a (obviously not detailed enough) scan of the system for 'tm_year' references was done. Thanks! Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com

24 years, 3 months

[pups] Booting V6 on 11/34 vs 11/34A ??

by Jay Jaeger

That RK05 image boots on an 11/34A just fine. (I own one. Trust me. It just works. No fiddling required). Perhaps you have a plain 11/34, and perhaps there is some difference that matters. But they should both have MMU, but perhaps the MMU in the 34A is different than a 34 in some odd way. Do you have floating point? Maybe that's the problem. You could always try mini-unix... 8-) That should run (it ran on an 11/20). Jay Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:13:30 +1100 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? In article by Carl Lowenstein: > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable > RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. > > carl Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :( That's the problem. Cheers, Warren - --- --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1(a)home.com visit http://members.home.net/thecomputercollection Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA61690 for pups-liszt; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:48:38 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Wed Jan 31 08:13:30 2001 Received: from mailserver.nktelco.net (mailserver.nktelco.net [216.206.77.3]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA61686 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:48:34 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from chd(a)nktelco.net) Received: by mailserver.nktelco.net from localhost (router,SLMail V4.1); Sun, 04 Feb 2001 17:35:38 -0500 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Received: from nktelco.net [63.238.116.228] by mailserver.nktelco.net [216.206.77.3] (SLmail 4.1.3395) with ESMTP id D0A2B493F87E11D4B0A800500424CC10 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 17:35:37 -0500 Message-ID: <3A7DDBA8.3C69A521(a)nktelco.net> Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 17:46:00 -0500 From: "Chuck Dickman" <chd(a)nktelco.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: [pups] Hardware config for 2.11BSD Installation on PDP-11/73 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SLUIDL: 14D76A5B-F97F11D4-B0A80050-0424CC10 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Greetings, I have a PDP-11/73 on which I have installed 2.11 BSD from the PUPS archives. I have a few hardware configurations questions that I hope someone might be able to help me with. The memory board that I have was made by Clearpoint Inc. The board has the markings Q-RAM 44B REV. B and GSB-2. Unfortunately, I have no documentation for the board. The board originally had 1 MB installed, and I added another 1 MB of chips. The extra chips were not recognized though. Does anyone have information on the jumper settings for this board? I have two MSCP controllers installed. One is a CMD CQD-220/M SCSI controller with one drive attached, CSR is the first MSCP controller, and unit is set to 0. The second is an RQDX3 with an RX50 attached. It is set with CSR at the second MSCP controller address. The jumpers are set for unit 1. The result is that I have a SCSI drive at DU0 and the RX50's at DU4 and DU5 during boot. DU0 is ra0 and DU4 is ra12 in 2.11 BSD. If I change the jumpers on RQDX3 to unit 2, I boot at DU8, the first RX50, but I can no longer access the floppies from 2.11 BSD. Looking at the sources, it seems that the drive number is limited to 0-7, but the controller seems to want unit number 8. What am I missing? This seems to occur both in the kernel and in the standalone installation system. Chuck Dickman chd(a)nktelco.net Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA62190 for pups-liszt; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:01:37 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Mon Feb 5 09:45:33 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA62186 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:01:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f14NjXN00172 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 15:45:33 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 15:45:33 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200102042345.f14NjXN00172(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Hardware config for 2.11BSD Installation on PDP-11/73 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: "Chuck Dickman" <chd(a)nktelco.net> > The memory board that I have was made by Clearpoint Inc. The board 'fraid I can't be of help with the memory board - that's not my area of expertise. > I have two MSCP controllers installed. One is a CMD CQD-220/M SCSI Ah, but I can help with getting the dual MSCP controller question. My 11/73 is similar - it has an Emulex UC08 and the original RQDX3 (with an RD54 and a RX03). > DU0 is ra0 and DU4 is ra12 in 2.11 BSD. If I change the jumpers on > RQDX3 to unit 2, I boot at DU8, the first RX50, but I can no longer > access the floppies from 2.11 BSD. Looking at the sources, it seems > that the drive number is limited to 0-7, but the controller seems to > want unit number 8. What am I missing? This seems to occur both in > the kernel and in the standalone installation system. Ignore anything you might know about DU numbers ;) 2.11 numbers the drives 0 thru 7 on _each_ controller. Thus 'ra0' thru 'ra7' are on the first controller, 'ra8' thru 'ra15' on the second controller and so on. There is a maximum of 4 controllers supported (two bits in the minor device number). The standalone I/O system uses device names of the form: dev(ctlr, unit, part) where 'ctlr' is the controller number (0 thru 3), the 'unit' number is 0 thru 7 and the 'part' is the partition number (0 thru 7). So, to access the first drive on the second controller from a standalone program the name would be: ra(1,0,0) you probably will be prompted for the CSR since 'boot' and friends only know about the first controller's address. Once the kernel is loaded you access drives on the 2nd controller with device names such as /dev/ra8a, /dev/ra9a, and so on. The "sparse" numbering was chosen (eons and eons ago) to make the MSCP disks look more like the traditional disc controllers which allowed for 8 drives per controller. In my /etc/dtab file I have: ra ? 172154 154 5 raintr # uda50, rqdx1/2/3 ra ? 172150 0 5 raintr # 2nd uda50/uc08 From the console ODT prompt (I've an older MXV11 boot set up) I use "172150 du 0" to boot from the SCSI disk attached to the UC08. When the system is up the RD54 (which is unit 0 on the other MSCP controller) is accessed as 'ra8' (and the RX03 which is unit 1 accessed as 'ra9'). It's pretty simple and regular once one knows what is going on ;) Steven Schultz sms(a)to.gd-es.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA62645 for pups-liszt; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:52:20 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Chuck Dickman" <chd(a)nktelco.net> Mon Feb 5 11:49:50 2001 Received: from mailserver.nktelco.net (mailserver.nktelco.net [216.206.77.3]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA62637 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:52:16 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from chd(a)nktelco.net) Received: by mailserver.nktelco.net from localhost (router,SLMail V4.1); Sun, 04 Feb 2001 20:39:27 -0500 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Received: from nktelco.net [63.238.116.228] by mailserver.nktelco.net [216.206.77.3] (SLmail 4.1.3395) with ESMTP id 8253E300FAEF11D4B0A800500424CC10 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 20:39:27 -0500 Message-ID: <3A7E06BE.F5687560(a)nktelco.net> Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 20:49:50 -0500 From: "Chuck Dickman" <chd(a)nktelco.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Hardware config for 2.11BSD Installation on PDP-11/73] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------F423B2C7167AA36041F4AE52" X-SLUIDL: 14D76C4B-F97F11D4-B0A80050-0424CC10 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------F423B2C7167AA36041F4AE52 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Steven M. Schultz" wrote: > > Hi - > <snip> What you described here makes sense and was my first impression of what should happen, but my experience is different. > > In my /etc/dtab file I have: > > ra ? 172154 154 5 raintr # uda50, rqdx1/2/3 > ra ? 172150 0 5 raintr # 2nd uda50/uc08 My /etc/dtab is: ra ? 172150 154 5 raintr # uda50, rqdx1/2/3 ra ? 160334 160 5 raintr # secondary mscp The CQD220 is at 172150 and the RXDX3 is at 160334. Is 172154 a valid MSCP address? It must be, cause it works for you. The docs I have show 160334. On booting the 11/73 and starting 2.11 BSD the following occurs: DU8 and DU9 at boot are the RX50 drives on the second controller. The floppy in DU8 contains the installation standalone utilities that were part of the installation tape, including icheck. ------------ Testing in progress - Please wait Memory Size is 1024 K Bytes 9 Step memory test Step 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Message 04 Entering Dialog mode Commands are Help, Boot, List, Setup, Map and Test. Type a command then press the RETURN key: B DU8 Trying DU8 Starting system from DU8 .83Boot from ra(1,0,0) at 0160334 .: ra(1,0,0)/icheck .ra(1,0,0) err op=89 sts=3 .ra(1,0,0) !online .: ra(0,0,0)/unix .Boot: bootdev=02400 bootcsr=0172150 . 2.11 BSD UNIX #10: Fri Nov 24 16:52:18 PST 2000 root@mars.chd-net:/usr/src/sys/MARS ra0: Ver 6 mod 13 ra0: RA82 size=1295849 attaching qe0 csr 174440 qe0: DEC DELQA addr 08:00:2b:0e:24:7c attaching lo0 phys mem = 1048576 avail mem = 725696 user mem = 307200 February 1 23:38:41 init: configure system hk ? csr 177440 vector 210 skipped: No autoconfig routines. ht ? csr 172440 vector 224 skipped: No autoconfig routines. ra 0 csr 172150 vector 154 vectorset attached ra 1 csr 160334 vector 160 vectorset attached rl ? csr 174400 vector 160 skipped: No autoconfig routines. tm ? csr 172520 vector 224 skipped: No autoconfig routines. ts 0 csr 172520 vector 224 attached xp ? csr 176700 vector 254 skipped: No autoconfig routines. erase, kill ^U, intr ^C # # mount /dev/ra8a /mnt/rx0 ra1: Ver 4 mod 3 ra8 st=3 sb=0 fl=0 en=9 /dev/ra8a on /mnt/rx0: Input/output error : not found : not found # mount /dev/ra9a /mnt/rx0 ra9 st=3 sb=0 fl=0 en=9 /dev/ra9a on /mnt/rx0: Input/output error # > > It's pretty simple and regular once one knows what is going on ;) > I agree that it is pretty simple as you describe it and it is what I expected, but it does not seem to be as I see it here. Could the problem be that I am booting from the second controller? Should all the controllers be jumpered for unit 0? Now that I think about it, it may be the boot firmware that is uncooperative. If I set the RQDX3 for unit 0, I cannot boot from the second controller's first disk, but I can from the second. So, I should set all the controller unit numbers to 0. The restriction is that the boot device must be visible to the firmware. Make sense? ... OK, I moved the RQDX3 to unit 0, and the boot floppy to the second drive. The boot is then: -------------- Testing in progress - Please wait Memory Size is 1024 K Bytes 9 Step memory test Step 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Message 04 Entering Dialog mode Commands are Help, Boot, List, Setup, Map and Test. Type a command then press the RETURN key: B DU1 Trying DU1 Starting system from DU1 .83Boot from ra(1,1,0) at 0160334 .: ra(0,0,0)/unix .Boot: bootdev=02400 bootcsr=0172150 . 2.11 BSD UNIX #10: Fri Nov 24 16:52:18 PST 2000 root@mars.chd-net:/usr/src/sys/MARS ra0: Ver 6 mod 13 ra0: RA82 size=1295849 attaching qe0 csr 174440 qe0: DEC DELQA addr 08:00:2b:0e:24:7c attaching lo0 phys mem = 1048576 avail mem = 725696 user mem = 307200 February 1 23:38:41 init: configure system hk ? csr 177440 vector 210 skipped: No autoconfig routines. ht ? csr 172440 vector 224 skipped: No autoconfig routines. ra 0 csr 172150 vector 154 vectorset attached ra 1 csr 160334 vector 160 vectorset attached rl ? csr 174400 vector 160 skipped: No autoconfig routines. tm ? csr 172520 vector 224 skipped: No autoconfig routines. ts 0 csr 172520 vector 224 attached xp ? csr 176700 vector 254 skipped: No autoconfig routines. erase, kill ^U, intr ^C # mount /dev/ra9a /mnt/rx0 ra1: Ver 4 mod 3 ra9: RX50 size=800 # ls /mnt/rx0 boot icheck restor unix disklabel mkfs rx50toroot # > Steven Schultz > sms(a)to.gd-es.com Thanks for helping me work through this. It looks like the boot device must be within the first 8 devices that the firmware can see, but 2.11 BSD wants all the unit number jumpers set to 0. Chuck Dickman chd(a)nktelco.net --------------F423B2C7167AA36041F4AE52 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Message-ID: <3A7E052A.D2F195E1(a)nktelco.net> Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 20:43:06 -0500 From: Chuck Dickman <chd(a)nktelco.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Subject: Re: [pups] Hardware config for 2.11BSD Installation on PDP-11/73 References: <200102042345.f14NjXN00172(a)moe.2bsd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Steven M. Schultz" wrote: > > Hi - > <snip> What you described here makes sense and was my first impression of what should happen, but my experience is different. > > In my /etc/dtab file I have: > > ra ? 172154 154 5 raintr # uda50, rqdx1/2/3 > ra ? 172150 0 5 raintr # 2nd uda50/uc08 My /etc/dtab is: ra ? 172150 154 5 raintr # uda50, rqdx1/2/3 ra ? 160334 160 5 raintr # secondary mscp The CQD220 is at 172150 and the RXDX3 is at 160334. Is 172154 a valid MSCP address? It must be, cause it works for you. The docs I have show 160334. On booting the 11/73 and starting 2.11 BSD the following occurs: DU8 and DU9 at boot are the RX50 drives on the second controller. The floppy in DU8 contains the installation standalone utilities that were part of the installation tape, including icheck. ------------ Testing in progress - Please wait Memory Size is 1024 K Bytes 9 Step memory test Step 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Message 04 Entering Dialog mode Commands are Help, Boot, List, Setup, Map and Test. Type a command then press the RETURN key: B DU8 Trying DU8 Starting system from DU8 .83Boot from ra(1,0,0) at 0160334 .: ra(1,0,0)/icheck .ra(1,0,0) err op=89 sts=3 .ra(1,0,0) !online .: ra(0,0,0)/unix .Boot: bootdev=02400 bootcsr=0172150 . 2.11 BSD UNIX #10: Fri Nov 24 16:52:18 PST 2000 root@mars.chd-net:/usr/src/sys/MARS ra0: Ver 6 mod 13 ra0: RA82 size=1295849 attaching qe0 csr 174440 qe0: DEC DELQA addr 08:00:2b:0e:24:7c attaching lo0 phys mem = 1048576 avail mem = 725696 user mem = 307200 February 1 23:38:41 init: configure system hk ? csr 177440 vector 210 skipped: No autoconfig routines. ht ? csr 172440 vector 224 skipped: No autoconfig routines. ra 0 csr 172150 vector 154 vectorset attached ra 1 csr 160334 vector 160 vectorset attached rl ? csr 174400 vector 160 skipped: No autoconfig routines. tm ? csr 172520 vector 224 skipped: No autoconfig routines. ts 0 csr 172520 vector 224 attached xp ? csr 176700 vector 254 skipped: No autoconfig routines. erase, kill ^U, intr ^C # # mount /dev/ra8a /mnt/rx0 ra1: Ver 4 mod 3 ra8 st=3 sb=0 fl=0 en=9 /dev/ra8a on /mnt/rx0: Input/output error : not found : not found # mount /dev/ra9a /mnt/rx0 ra9 st=3 sb=0 fl=0 en=9 /dev/ra9a on /mnt/rx0: Input/output error # > > It's pretty simple and regular once one knows what is going on ;) > I agree that it is pretty simple as you describe it and it is what I expected, but it does not seem to be as I see it here. Could the problem be that I am booting from the second controller? Should all the controllers be jumpered for unit 0? Now that I think about it, it may be the boot firmware that is uncooperative. If I set the RQDX3 for unit 0, I cannot boot from the second controller's first disk, but I can from the second. So, I should set all the controller unit numbers to 0. The restriction is that the boot device must be visible to the firmware. Make sense? ... OK, I moved the RQDX3 to unit 0, and the boot floppy to the second drive. The boot is then: -------------- Testing in progress - Please wait Memory Size is 1024 K Bytes 9 Step memory test Step 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Message 04 Entering Dialog mode Commands are Help, Boot, List, Setup, Map and Test. Type a command then press the RETURN key: B DU1 Trying DU1 Starting system from DU1 .83Boot from ra(1,1,0) at 0160334 .: ra(0,0,0)/unix .Boot: bootdev=02400 bootcsr=0172150 . 2.11 BSD UNIX #10: Fri Nov 24 16:52:18 PST 2000 root@mars.chd-net:/usr/src/sys/MARS ra0: Ver 6 mod 13 ra0: RA82 size=1295849 attaching qe0 csr 174440 qe0: DEC DELQA addr 08:00:2b:0e:24:7c attaching lo0 phys mem = 1048576 avail mem = 725696 user mem = 307200 February 1 23:38:41 init: configure system hk ? csr 177440 vector 210 skipped: No autoconfig routines. ht ? csr 172440 vector 224 skipped: No autoconfig routines. ra 0 csr 172150 vector 154 vectorset attached ra 1 csr 160334 vector 160 vectorset attached rl ? csr 174400 vector 160 skipped: No autoconfig routines. tm ? csr 172520 vector 224 skipped: No autoconfig routines. ts 0 csr 172520 vector 224 attached xp ? csr 176700 vector 254 skipped: No autoconfig routines. erase, kill ^U, intr ^C # mount /dev/ra9a /mnt/rx0 ra1: Ver 4 mod 3 ra9: RX50 size=800 # ls /mnt/rx0 boot icheck restor unix disklabel mkfs rx50toroot # > Steven Schultz > sms(a)to.gd-es.com Thanks for helping me work through this. It looks like the boot device must be within the first 8 devices that the firmware can see, but 2.11 BSD wants all the unit number jumpers set to 0. Chuck Dickman chd(a)nktelco.net --------------F423B2C7167AA36041F4AE52-- Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA62886 for pups-liszt; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:46:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Chuck Dickman <chd(a)nktelco.net> Mon Feb 5 11:43:06 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA62882 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:46:28 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f152Zs901247; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 18:35:54 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 18:35:54 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200102050235.f152Zs901247(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: chd(a)nktelco.net, sms(a)moe.2bsd.com Subject: Re: [pups] Hardware config for 2.11BSD Installation on PDP-11/73 Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: "Chuck Dickman" <chd(a)nktelco.net> > What you described here makes sense and was my first impression of > what should happen, but my experience is different. I'm wondering if the console/boot firmware might not be the cause of some of the confusion. > My /etc/dtab is: > > ra ? 172150 154 5 raintr # uda50, rqdx1/2/3 > ra ? 160334 160 5 raintr # secondary mscp Looks good. With 2.11 you can, if you want, leave the interrupt vector as 0, the kernel will allocate an available vector and tell the MSCP controller what vector to use. > The CQD220 is at 172150 and the RXDX3 is at 160334. Is 172154 a valid > MSCP address? It must be, cause it works for you. The docs I have > show 160334. As long as it doesn't conflict with anything else on the system it's valid ;-) The system came with the RQDX3 and I worked with the RD54 for a while before adding the UC08 - when I added the UC08 I just picked the next free CSR which happened to be 172154. > DU8 and DU9 at boot are the RX50 drives on the second controller. The > floppy in DU8 contains the installation standalone utilities that were > part of the installation tape, including icheck. > > ------------ > .83Boot from ra(1,0,0) at 0160334 > .: ra(1,0,0)/icheck It probably doesn't hurt anything but I would leave off the '/' > .ra(1,0,0) err op=89 sts=3 > .ra(1,0,0) !online op=89 is the "ONLINE" command and a status of 3 means the unit didn't go 'online'. That is very strange since 'boot' was obviously loaded from the drive/controller. What I am wondering now is: does the boot monitor pass 0 or 8 thru as the unit number? If it's expecting 8 or 9 then that might be the problem because boot and the 2.11 kernel only deal with 0 thru 7 > .: ra(0,0,0)/unix > .Boot: bootdev=02400 bootcsr=0172150 > . > hk ? csr 177440 vector 210 skipped: No autoconfig routines. > ht ? csr 172440 vector 224 skipped: No autoconfig routines. > ra 0 csr 172150 vector 154 vectorset attached > ra 1 csr 160334 vector 160 vectorset attached Ok, that looks encouraging. > # mount /dev/ra8a /mnt/rx0 > ra1: Ver 4 mod 3 > ra8 st=3 sb=0 fl=0 en=9 > /dev/ra8a on /mnt/rx0: Input/output error > : not found > : not found > # mount /dev/ra9a /mnt/rx0 > ra9 st=3 sb=0 fl=0 en=9 > /dev/ra9a on /mnt/rx0: Input/output error Same as before - the "online" command is failing for reason(s) unknown as yet. > I agree that it is pretty simple as you describe it and it is what I expected, > but it does not seem to be as I see it here. Could the problem be that I am > booting from the second controller? Should all the controllers be jumpered I boot from the second controller all the time. If I weren't so lazy (and the BA23 so narrow and hard to work in ;)) I'd have swapped the UC08 and RQDX3 around a long time ago. As it is now I have to hit ^C during the POST and at the BOOT> prompt I enter "172154 DU 0" to boot from the second controller. > for unit 0? Now that I think about it, it may be the boot firmware that is Yes, if given a choice (and I don't know how this is done) all the controllers need to start from 0. If the "base unit" of a controller is 8 then I think the problem is that the controller is expecting values such as 8, 9, etc in the 'mscp_unit' part of the MSCP packet. That would explain the failure to "online unit 0" - the controller is expecting to be told "online unit 8". > controller's first disk, but I can from the second. So, I should set all the > controller unit numbers to 0. The restriction is that the boot device > must be visible to the firmware. Make sense? Yes. I think the 'restriction' in this case is 2.11 - it doesn't know how to deal with units other than 0 thru 7. > Thanks for helping me work through this. It looks like the boot device > must be within the first 8 devices that the firmware can see, but 2.11 BSD > wants all the unit number jumpers set to 0. Quite welcome! The boot monitor can load anything, but once 'boot' (or the kernel) is loaded they do not know how to deal with unit=8. Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA63034 for pups-liszt; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:23:08 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Chuck Dickman" <chd(a)nktelco.net> Mon Feb 5 13:20:27 2001 Received: from mailserver.nktelco.net (mailserver.nktelco.net [216.206.77.3]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA63030 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:23:03 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from chd(a)nktelco.net) Received: by mailserver.nktelco.net from localhost (router,SLMail V4.1); Sun, 04 Feb 2001 22:10:04 -0500 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Received: from nktelco.net [63.238.116.228] by mailserver.nktelco.net [216.206.77.3] (SLmail 4.1.3395) with ESMTP id 8253E3E2FAEF11D4B0A800500424CC10 for <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> plus 1 more; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 22:10:04 -0500 Message-ID: <3A7E1BFB.98767635(a)nktelco.net> Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 22:20:27 -0500 From: "Chuck Dickman" <chd(a)nktelco.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Hardware config for 2.11BSD Installation on PDP-11/73 References: <200102050235.f152Zs901247(a)moe.2bsd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SLUIDL: 14D76D51-F97F11D4-B0A80050-0424CC10 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk "Steven M. Schultz" wrote: > > > "Chuck Dickman" wrote: > > > > Thanks for helping me work through this. It looks like the boot device > > must be within the first 8 devices that the firmware can see, but 2.11 BSD > > wants all the unit number jumpers set to 0. > > Quite welcome! The boot monitor can load anything, but once 'boot' > (or the kernel) is loaded they do not know how to deal with unit=8. I think that was what I was trying to say, but you said it better. Thanks. > > Steven Schultz > sms(a)moe.2bsd.com Now if someone could help be double my memory. :-) Chuck Dickman chd(a)nktelco.net Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA65456 for pups-liszt; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 23:39:58 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> Mon Feb 5 22:37:53 2001 Received: from mud.stack.nl (mud.stack.nl [131.155.141.98]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA65452 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 23:39:53 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from martijnb(a)stack.nl) Received: by mud.stack.nl (Postfix, from userid 587) id 3AC547F18; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:37:53 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:37:53 +0100 From: Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: [pups] Y2K problem in ftpd? Message-ID: <20010205133753.A23455(a)mud.stack.nl> Reply-To: Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.3i Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi. A friendly user pointed me to this obvious error: (part of a typescript, an FTP session to my PDP, running 2.11BSD) ncftp /usr/home/martijnb> ls -la foobar.c -rw-r--r-- 1 martijnb users 106 Jan 15 15:25 foobar.c ncftp /usr/home/martijnb> quote mdtm foobar.c 191010115144152 (mdtm should return the datestamp, in the form yyyymmddhhmm. ftpd thinks that it is 19101, and chops off the last digit of the filedate..) Things go wrong when you try to get an allready existing file: ncftp /usr/home/martijnb > get foobar.c The local file "foobar.c" already exists. Local: 133 bytes, dated Mon Feb 5 13:25:59 2001. Remote: 133 bytes, dated Thu Oct 13 04:44:15 1910. [O]verwrite? [A]ppend to? [S]kip? [N]ew Name? > Hmm. I'll see if I can figure out a quick patch :) -- Martijn van Buul - Pino(a)dohd.org - http://www.stack.nl/~martijnb/ Geek code: G-- - Visit OuterSpace: mud.stack.nl 3333 Kees J. Bot: The sum of CPU power and user brain power is a constant. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA65628 for pups-liszt; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 00:14:23 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Dave Horsfall <dave(a)fgh.geac.com.au> Mon Feb 5 23:09:49 2001 Received: from fgh.geac.com.au ([203.32.189.100]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA65624 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 00:14:21 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from dave(a)horsfall.org) Received: from localhost (dave@localhost) by fgh.geac.com.au (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f15D9on12003 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 00:09:50 +1100 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: fgh.au.geac.com: dave owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 00:09:49 +1100 (EST) From: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)fgh.geac.com.au> X-X-Sender: <dave(a)fgh.au.geac.com> To: PDP Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] Y2K problem in ftpd? In-Reply-To: <20010205133753.A23455(a)mud.stack.nl> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102052354420.5033-100000(a)fgh.au.geac.com> X-No-Archive: Yes X-Disclaimer: "Me, speak for us?" X-Witty-Saying: "Mobius Strip - See other side for instructions" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Mon, 5 Feb 2001, Martijn van Buul wrote: > ncftp /usr/home/martijnb> quote mdtm foobar.c > 191010115144152 > > (mdtm should return the datestamp, in the form yyyymmddhhmm. ftpd > thinks that it is 19101, and chops off the last digit of the filedate..) Yep, that's a sure sign, which (cough, cough) I have personally seen on some (cough, cough) Y2K-compliant software supported by (cough, cough) A Large Software Company. No, I wasn't personally responsible for that code :-) > I'll see if I can figure out a quick patch :) Beware of the Y2K.1 bug :-( Synopsis: In order to overcome the Y2K bug, we implement a quick fix, because we are too lazy to do it properly: IF last two digits == '00' THEN make first two digits == '20'. // Because we're gonna retire this stuff after 2000. So what happens in 2001? Well, you get 1901, 19101, etc. Sigh... Isn't that fix what got us into trouble in the first place? Disclaimer: None of Geac software exhibited the Y2K.1 bug, since we tested it thoroughly, for years 2000, 2001, etc: I make no comment on Y2K. -- Dave Horsfall CL VK2KFU dave(a)geac.com.au Ph: +61 2 9978-7493 Fx: * 9978-7490 Geac Computers P/L (ERP Division) 2/57 Christie St, St Leonards 2065, Australia Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA65695 for pups-liszt; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 00:29:48 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> Mon Feb 5 23:27:46 2001 Received: from mud.stack.nl (mud.stack.nl [131.155.141.98]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA65691 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 00:29:45 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from martijnb(a)stack.nl) Received: by mud.stack.nl (Postfix, from userid 587) id 8FD117F18; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:27:46 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:27:46 +0100 From: Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Y2K problem in ftpd? Message-ID: <20010205142746.A24731(a)mud.stack.nl> Reply-To: Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> References: <20010205133753.A23455(a)mud.stack.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.3i In-Reply-To: <20010205133753.A23455(a)mud.stack.nl>; from pino(a)dohd.org on Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 01:37:53PM +0100 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Martijn van Buul wrote: > I'll see if I can figure out a quick patch :) Done. A diff for /usr/src/libexec/ftpd/ftpcmd.y: 461,463c461,464 < "19%02d%02d%02d%02d%02d%02d", < t->tm_year, t->tm_mon+1, t->tm_mday, < t->tm_hour, t->tm_min, t->tm_sec); --- > "%04d%02d%02d%02d%02d%02d", > t->tm_year+1900, t->tm_mon+1, > t->tm_mday, t->tm_hour, t->tm_min, > t->tm_sec); Miraculously, this *reduces* the size of the binary by a whopping two bytes ;) -- Martijn van Buul - Pino(a)dohd.org - http://www.stack.nl/~martijnb/ Geek code: G-- - Visit OuterSpace: mud.stack.nl 3333 Kees J. Bot: The sum of CPU power and user brain power is a constant. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA65865 for pups-liszt; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 01:04:27 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> Mon Feb 5 23:50:37 2001 Received: from fgh.geac.com.au ([203.32.189.100]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA65861 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 01:04:25 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from dave(a)horsfall.org) Received: from localhost (dave@localhost) by fgh.geac.com.au (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f15DocZ18079 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 00:50:38 +1100 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: fgh.au.geac.com: dave owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 00:50:37 +1100 (EST) From: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> X-X-Sender: <dave(a)fgh.au.geac.com> To: PDP Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] Y2K problem in ftpd? In-Reply-To: <20010205142746.A24731(a)mud.stack.nl> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102060048000.5033-100000(a)fgh.au.geac.com> X-No-Archive: Yes X-Disclaimer: "Me, speak for us?" X-Witty-Saying: "Mobius Strip - See other side for instructions" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Mon, 5 Feb 2001, Martijn van Buul wrote: > < "19%02d%02d%02d%02d%02d%02d", > < t->tm_year, t->tm_mon+1, t->tm_mday, Dead giveaway... > Miraculously, this *reduces* the size of the binary by a whopping two > bytes ;) Well, we can find a job for you in writing PDP-11 bootstraps :-) -- Dave Horsfall CL VK2KFU dave(a)geac.com.au Ph: +61 2 9978-7493 Fx: * 9978-7490 Geac Computers P/L (ERP Division) 2/57 Christie St, St Leonards 2065, Australia Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA66602 for pups-liszt; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 03:01:50 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 3 months

Re: [pups] 2.11BSD networking on simulator

by Per Andersson

On Sat, 3 Feb 2001, Richard Donkin wrote: > "Steven M. Schultz" wrote: > ... > > I use BSD/OS myself, but FreeBSD works very nicely also. I've not > > tried it with linux. > > Could you let me know the FreeBSD and Begemot P11 versions you were > using? (Anyone > else who has a working combination, feel free to jump in!) This might not be state-of-the-art (but thats not the point anyway), I'm running p11 version 2.5 on an FreeBSD 3.4 machine and it works ok, the main problem I have found is that after a while the clock starts to run slow, at the momement it thinks it's christmas eve (after beeing up about 130 days). /Per Andersson Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA54943 for pups-liszt; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 09:25:12 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> Sun Feb 4 08:23:08 2001 Received: from mailhost.cs.uofs.edu (mailhost.cs.uofs.edu [134.198.169.1]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA54939 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 09:25:05 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from bill(a)cs.uofs.edu) Received: from triangle.cs.uofs.edu (IDENT:root@triangle.cs.uofs.edu [134.198.172.101]) by mailhost.cs.uofs.edu (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id RAA54493 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 17:24:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (bill@localhost) by triangle.cs.uofs.edu (8.9.3/8.8.6) with ESMTP id RAA06862 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 17:23:10 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: triangle.cs.uofs.edu: bill owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 17:23:08 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD networking on simulator In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102032157010.4898-100000(a)wilfer4.cdg.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10102031721020.6311-100000(a)triangle.cs.uofs.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Sat, 3 Feb 2001, Per Andersson wrote: > > This might not be state-of-the-art (but thats not the point anyway), I'm > running p11 version 2.5 on an FreeBSD 3.4 machine and it works ok, the main Where can I find this Begemot P11 Emulator?? I visited the Begemot site but the link to products doesn't appear to work. I have tried E11 (demo version) and the Supnil Emulator, but have never heard of this one til now. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h> Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA55257 for pups-liszt; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 10:48:52 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Sun Feb 4 09:45:42 2001 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.89]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA55253 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 10:48:48 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk) Received: from falstaf.demon.co.uk ([158.152.152.109]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14PCOP-000PL9-0V; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 23:46:58 +0000 Message-ID: <e+SmvUAmgJf6Ew48(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 23:45:42 +0000 To: Per Andersson <pa(a)cdg.chalmers.se> Cc: Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au From: Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD networking on simulator References: <3A7BD55D.B64B221B(a)bigfoot.com> <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102032157010.4898-100000(a)wilfer4.cdg.chalmers.se> In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102032157010.4898-100000(a)wilfer4.cdg.chalmers.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.00 U <YSkKJATYm0AxAbv6xwlBrCeVCW> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In message <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102032157010.4898-100000(a)wilfer4.cdg.chalmers .se>, Per Andersson <pa(a)cdg.chalmers.se> writes > > >On Sat, 3 Feb 2001, Richard Donkin wrote: > >> "Steven M. Schultz" wrote: >> ... >> > I use BSD/OS myself, but FreeBSD works very nicely also. I've not >> > tried it with linux. >> >> Could you let me know the FreeBSD and Begemot P11 versions you were >> using? (Anyone >> else who has a working combination, feel free to jump in!) > >This might not be state-of-the-art (but thats not the point anyway), I'm >running p11 version 2.5 on an FreeBSD 3.4 machine and it works ok, the main >problem I have found is that after a while the clock starts to run slow, >at the momement it thinks it's christmas eve (after beeing up about 130 days). > > > /Per Andersson > > Hi, Harti Brandt, the guy who wrote this package is shortly (I hope :-)) going to release a new version that includes a clock patch that Steve Schultz dreamt up. Regards Robin Currently running P11 on linux ____________________________________________________________________ Robin Birch robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD Old computers and radios always welcome Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA55275 for pups-liszt; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 10:50:10 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Sun Feb 4 09:47:06 2001 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.89]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA55271 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 10:50:07 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk) Received: from falstaf.demon.co.uk ([158.152.152.109]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14PCPh-000PMw-0V; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 23:48:18 +0000 Message-ID: <S+VlfhA6hJf6EwZk(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 23:47:06 +0000 To: Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au From: Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD networking on simulator References: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102032157010.4898-100000(a)wilfer4.cdg.chalmers.se> <Pine.LNX.4.10.10102031721020.6311-100000(a)triangle.cs.uofs.edu> In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10102031721020.6311-100000(a)triangle.cs.uofs.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.00 U <YSkKJATYm0AxAbv6xwlBrCeVCW> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In message <Pine.LNX.4.10.10102031721020.6311-100000(a)triangle.cs.uofs.ed u>, Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> writes >On Sat, 3 Feb 2001, Per Andersson wrote: > >> >> This might not be state-of-the-art (but thats not the point anyway), I'm >> running p11 version 2.5 on an FreeBSD 3.4 machine and it works ok, the main > >Where can I find this Begemot P11 Emulator?? I visited the Begemot site >but the link to products doesn't appear to work. I have tried E11 (demo >version) and the Supnil Emulator, but have never heard of this one til now. > >bill > There is an oldish version on the pups archive. I believe that harti is going to release a newer version soon. regards Robin ____________________________________________________________________ Robin Birch robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD Old computers and radios always welcome Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA55355 for pups-liszt; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 11:05:29 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Sun Feb 4 10:03:00 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA55351 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 11:05:25 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f14030W16555 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 16:03:00 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 16:03:00 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200102040003.f14030W16555(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD networking on simulator Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: Per Andersson <pa(a)cdg.chalmers.se> > > This might not be state-of-the-art (but thats not the point anyway), I'm > running p11 version 2.5 on an FreeBSD 3.4 machine and it works ok, the main > problem I have found is that after a while the clock starts to run slow, > at the momement it thinks it's christmas eve (after beeing up about 130 days). The bug is an arithmetic overflow in the clock computations. After about 24 days (with 60Hz power in the US) the number of ticks the virtual machine has been up overflows 32 bits and time behaves very strange. Apply the patch below to 'device.c' and the problem goes away - it did for me. Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com --- device.c.dist Sat Mar 4 00:03:28 2000 +++ device.c Fri Sep 29 23:59:10 2000 @@ -203,6 +203,7 @@ int secs; int newrate, diff; int newdir; + double dnow, dstart; for(t = timeouts; t < &timeouts[ntimeouts]; t++) if(t->time && --t->curr == 0) { @@ -223,9 +224,9 @@ * to the number we have elapsed */ gettimeofday(&tv, NULL); - secs = ((1000 * tv.tv_sec + tv.tv_usec/1000) - - (1000 * timer.start.tv_sec + timer.start.tv_usec/1000)) - / 1000; + dstart = 1000.0 * timer.start.tv_sec + timer.start.tv_usec/1000.0; + dnow = 1000.0 * tv.tv_sec + tv.tv_usec/1000.0; + secs = (dnow - dstart) / 1000.0; newrate = 1000000 / clock_rate; Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA55652 for pups-liszt; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 11:55:21 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Jay Jaeger <cube1(a)home.com> Sun Feb 4 10:50:25 2001 Received: from mail2.rdc1.il.home.com (mail2.rdc1.il.home.com [24.2.1.77]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA55648 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 11:55:16 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from cube1(a)home.com) Received: from ddjay.home.com ([65.3.254.22]) by mail2.rdc1.il.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20010204005319.ULPW13648.mail2.rdc1.il.home.com(a)ddjay.home.com>; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 16:53:19 -0800 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010203184258.00bda9f0@cirithi> X-Sender: cube1@cirithi X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 18:50:25 -0600 To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au From: Jay Jaeger <cube1(a)home.com> Subject: [pups] V6 and PDP-11/34 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk I *have* *run* the standard Unix V6 distribution on my PDP 11/34. Works just fine. I also compared my V6 distribution image with the one on PUPS (years ago) and they matched just fine. Load the pack from the RK05 image after the 100 (IIRC) block tape to disk loader program [how you get it there is another issue, of course... 8-)], boot up, type rkunix at the "@" and away you go. I did not use the tape to disk program on the tape image, however -- I didn't have a tape drive at the time IIRC. I have a standalone program that used a parallel port on my PC and a DR11 on my PDP-11 to write it, IIRC, but I might have used XMODEM and a serial port -- its been a lonnnng time since I did it. Jay Jaeger Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:13:30 +1100 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? In article by Carl Lowenstein: > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable > RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. > > carl Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :( That's the problem. Cheers, Warren --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1(a)home.com visit http://members.home.net/thecomputercollection Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA56873 for pups-liszt; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 17:46:26 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Wed Jan 31 08:13:30 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA56869 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 17:46:21 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f146dSx18575 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 22:39:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 22:39:28 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200102040639.f146dSx18575(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD networking on simulator Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> > Could you let me know the FreeBSD and Begemot P11 versions you were > using? (Anyone else who has a working combination, feel free to jump in!) Gosh, it was quite a while ago that I tried P11 on a FreeBSD system. It was pre-4.0 as I remember - perhaps 3.5 or 3.6 > Thanks very much for the config file, that should make life a lot > easier... And Quite welcome! Getting rid of the M4 macros and distilling the config file down to the basics makes it much easier to see what is going on. Coming up with that first config file was a day or so of fun ;) > thanks for all your efforts in updating 2.11BSD - very impressive to get > a full fledged BSD system on a PDP-11! You're welcome - it's been a lot of fun over the years. The past couple years development has slowed down, combination of too many other projects and not a lot of room left to stuff new features in ;) Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com

24 years, 3 months

Re: [pups] makedepend

by Steven M. Schultz

Hi Robin - > From: robin.birch(a)postoffice.co.uk > > I know that this isn't to do with a pdp or ancient unix but does anyone know > where I can find the sources for makedepend ? It's installed in /usr/src/X11/xc/config/makedepend on the systems I have looked on. Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA51838 for pups-liszt; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 20:53:31 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> Sat Feb 3 19:51:28 2001 Received: from amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net [195.40.1.45]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA51834 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 20:53:28 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com) Received: from bigfoot.com (dsl-212-135-223-35.dsl.easynet.co.uk [212.135.223.35]) by amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D68A17576; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 09:51:37 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <3A7BD4A0.D58E2F80(a)bigfoot.com> Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 09:51:28 +0000 From: Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Cc: PUPS List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] Re: 2.11BSD networking on simulator References: <3A78919C.3D604E23(a)bigfoot.com> <20010201094448.D70596(a)wantadilla.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Greg Lehey wrote: > > The Begemot emulator was written on BSD, so you'll probably find it > easier to use under FreeBSD. > > > Does anyone have a working Begemot sim setup with networking, used > > with 2.11BSD? If so, could you post your config files? The Begemot > > sim seems a lot more complex to set up than Supnik. > > *sigh* I used to, and it worked well. A number of changes in FreeBSD > have rendered the emulator non-functional, and I haven't had time to > find out what's wrong. I'll take a look and see if I can see anything > obvious, but it might take me a while. Thanks - do you know what FreeBSD version it last worked on? Also, which version of P11 you are using? I'm not doing anything significant with the FreeBSD box (it's a virtual machine under VMware) so re-installing is not a problem. Richard Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA51862 for pups-liszt; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 20:56:36 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> Sat Feb 3 19:54:37 2001 Received: from amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net [195.40.1.45]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA51858 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 20:56:32 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com) Received: from bigfoot.com (dsl-212-135-223-35.dsl.easynet.co.uk [212.135.223.35]) by amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7720F1755A for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 09:54:45 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <3A7BD55D.B64B221B(a)bigfoot.com> Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 09:54:37 +0000 From: Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD networking on simulator References: <200101312317.f0VNHsd17441(a)moe.2bsd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk "Steven M. Schultz" wrote: ... > I use BSD/OS myself, but FreeBSD works very nicely also. I've not > tried it with linux. Could you let me know the FreeBSD and Begemot P11 versions you were using? (Anyone else who has a working combination, feel free to jump in!) Thanks very much for the config file, that should make life a lot easier... And thanks for all your efforts in updating 2.11BSD - very impressive to get a full fledged BSD system on a PDP-11! Cheers Richard

24 years, 3 months

[pups] makedepend

by robin.birch＠postoffice.co.uk

Ok, I know that this isn't to do with a pdp or ancient unix but does anyone know where I can find the sources for makedepend ? REgards Robin Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA47580 for pups-liszt; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 05:00:31 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> Sat Feb 3 03:03:59 2001 Received: from mail3.microsoft.com (mail3.microsoft.com [131.107.3.123]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA47576 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 05:00:26 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from iking(a)microsoft.com) Received: from 157.54.9.100 by mail3.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Fri, 02 Feb 2001 09:02:45 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Received: by inet-imc-03.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <111FYTTA>; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:04:09 -0800 Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C138A34(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> To: "'Ken Wellsch'" <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:03:59 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk After seeing all the mail of success with the Supnik emulator, I found a compiled copy and tried that -- and got to a login: prompt! That's with the image you sent me -- many thanks. I'm going to have to learn more about the Supnik emulator now; in particular, I need to understand how to set it for a given processor emulation, so that once I rebuild the system to run on a '34 (which is supposed to be feasible), I can be reasonably sure it will work once it's ported over to the real machine. NOTE: neither simulator will run in a DOS box on Windows 2000. E11 starts up, but has problem accessing files (you can't MOUNT a file as a device). Supnik just won't go at all. I've been running my emulator on a DOS machine (actually, an old 486 laptop; hey guys, I have a laptop PDP-11!). Cheers -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 5:20 AM To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Ian King wrote: > > Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it > wouldn't unzip it. (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a > transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.) So going over all the things I can easily do data integrity checks on, I've run 'gzip -tv' on all the GZip'ed things and found three that are apparently damaged: gzip: ./PDP-11/Distributions/dec/Ultrix-3.1/ultrix-3.1-bootape.tar.gz: invalid compressed data--crc error gzip: ./PDP-11/Distributions/research/Ken_Wellsch_v6/v6.tape.gz: invalid compressed data--crc error gzip: ./PDP-11/Distributions/unsw/90/record0.gz: invalid compressed data--crc error I can't comment on the *.Z compressed archives as they do not do any crc. I will have to peruse my stack of archive CD's made at various stages of the archive to see if I have the other two (I have a good 'v6.tape.gz' file). I did not try and run the MD5 list yet. But this is an example of why I had been pushing for the use of MD5 for all items in the archive... B^) -- Ken

24 years, 3 months

Re: FW: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?

by Bill Mayhew

This is a real stretch for my brain, but I seem to recall that the ";" that appeared in ";login:" in the 1970s was sort-of "bleed-through" from an escape sequence that was intended to do cursor positioning and/or screen-clearing on some terminals... or something like that... therefore its absence would not necessarily be significant on different hardware. -Bill Mayhew, UNIX mangler emeritus > From: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > [mailto:owner-pups@minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au]On Behalf Of Carl Lowenstein > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 12:35 PM > To: iking(a)microsoft.com > Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > > > From iking(a)microsoft.com Tue Jan 30 15:27 PST 2001 > > From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> > > To: "'Ken Wellsch'" <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com>, > > Carl Lowenstein > > <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> > > Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > > Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:38:15 -0800 > > > > Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it > > wouldn't unzip it. (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a > > transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.) I've also tried the > > "Dennis" images, which are supposedly straight RK05 images; E11 won't boot > > 'em. One issue on which I'm not clear: where is the boot address? Stuff > at > > loc 0 doesn't look like boot instructions. > > > > If I could get an image to run in an emulator (as I mentioned, I'm running > > E11 from DBit), I'd write some cheesy little loader to bring it down the > > serial line (I already have it sketched out); but until I can at least get > > one to boot in the emulator, I'm reluctant to spend the hours (at 9600 > baud) > > to spray it onto a disk. <sigh> > > Well, as some response to this challenge "get an image to run in an > emulator", > I visited Bob Supnik's Computer History Simulation Project web page > > <www.tiac.net/users/mps/retro/> > > and followed the links to the sources for SIMH v2.5a and to the Unix V6 > disk images. > > I read the documentation file "simh_doc.txt", and compiled the > simulator. Then I read "simh_swre.txt", unpacked the V6 images, ran > the simulator and attached the three RK05 images to it, and booted > RK0. All according to the instructions. > > I got the bootstrap prompt "@" to which I typed "unix" and it came up > with a "login:" prompt, to which I could log in as root, and do things. > > It's not quite the same V6 image that I remember from the olden days of > loading onto an 11/40 from magtape. The login prompt seems not to be > ";login:" as we still see on the Usenix magazine. dmr's account seems > to have vanished but ken's is still there. And that's how I spent a > few hours last night. > > In case it matters, the underlying hardware/software platform is an AMD > K6-3 running Mandrake 7.1 Linux. > > carl > > carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego > {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu > clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA40296 for pups-liszt; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 11:24:16 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Fri Feb 2 10:22:10 2001 Received: from chiton.ucsd.edu (chiton.ucsd.edu [192.135.238.128]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA40289 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 11:24:12 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu) Received: (from cdl@localhost) by chiton.ucsd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA11849; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 16:22:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 16:22:10 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Message-Id: <200102020022.QAA11849(a)chiton.ucsd.edu> To: mayhew(a)altavista.com Subject: Re: FW: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > From mayhew(a)altavista.com Thu Feb 1 14:31 PST 2001 > Date: 1 Feb 2001 14:30:43 -0800 > X-Sent: 1 Feb 2001 22:30:43 GMT > To: cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu > From: Bill Mayhew <mayhew(a)altavista.com> > Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > Subject: Re: FW: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > This is a real stretch for my brain, but I seem to recall that the > ";" that appeared in ";login:" in the 1970s was sort-of "bleed-through" > from an escape sequence that was intended to do cursor positioning > and/or screen-clearing on some terminals... or something like that... > therefore its absence would not necessarily be significant on different > hardware. Oh, yes. I was just hiding my previous knowledge. The ";" and ":" in the login prompt were the visible part of escape sequences to control a Teletype KSR37. They didn't do anything useful on a VT05 but did show up on the screen. Unix Sixth Edition predates the common availability of even the dumbest CRT terminals. There are still a lot of TTY37 control codes hanging around in nroff output. carl Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA43985 for pups-liszt; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 01:17:03 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 3 months

Re: [pups] 2.11BSD networking on simulator

by robin.birch＠postoffice.co.uk

I have the begemot simulator running very effectively on Linux, although I have not used the emulated ethernet connection. If anyone knows how to set this up on linux then I would welcome some help. I must say that although p11 takes quite a bit of setting up it is well worth the trouble. Regards Robin Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA38448 for pups-liszt; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 04:37:00 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Fri Feb 2 03:35:13 2001 Received: from chiton.ucsd.edu (chiton.ucsd.edu [192.135.238.128]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA38444 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 04:36:55 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu) Received: (from cdl@localhost) by chiton.ucsd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA05794; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:35:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:35:13 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Message-Id: <200102011735.JAA05794(a)chiton.ucsd.edu> To: iking(a)microsoft.com Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > From iking(a)microsoft.com Tue Jan 30 15:27 PST 2001 > From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> > To: "'Ken Wellsch'" <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com>, > Carl Lowenstein > <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> > Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:38:15 -0800 > > Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it > wouldn't unzip it. (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a > transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.) I've also tried the > "Dennis" images, which are supposedly straight RK05 images; E11 won't boot > 'em. One issue on which I'm not clear: where is the boot address? Stuff at > loc 0 doesn't look like boot instructions. > > If I could get an image to run in an emulator (as I mentioned, I'm running > E11 from DBit), I'd write some cheesy little loader to bring it down the > serial line (I already have it sketched out); but until I can at least get > one to boot in the emulator, I'm reluctant to spend the hours (at 9600 baud) > to spray it onto a disk. <sigh> Well, as some response to this challenge "get an image to run in an emulator", I visited Bob Supnik's Computer History Simulation Project web page <www.tiac.net/users/mps/retro/> and followed the links to the sources for SIMH v2.5a and to the Unix V6 disk images. I read the documentation file "simh_doc.txt", and compiled the simulator. Then I read "simh_swre.txt", unpacked the V6 images, ran the simulator and attached the three RK05 images to it, and booted RK0. All according to the instructions. I got the bootstrap prompt "@" to which I typed "unix" and it came up with a "login:" prompt, to which I could log in as root, and do things. It's not quite the same V6 image that I remember from the olden days of loading onto an 11/40 from magtape. The login prompt seems not to be ";login:" as we still see on the Usenix magazine. dmr's account seems to have vanished but ken's is still there. And that's how I spent a few hours last night. In case it matters, the underlying hardware/software platform is an AMD K6-3 running Mandrake 7.1 Linux. carl carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu

24 years, 3 months

[pups] 2.11BSD networking on simulator

by Richard Donkin

I'm running 2.11BSD on the Supnik simulator, and wondering how to get it networked. This sim seems to only support serial lines, so maybe I have to move over to the Begemot simulator - in which case, is it best to use FreeBSD or Linux as the host for the sim? I'm more familiar with Linux but I have FreeBSD running now - the question is what's easier to set up for networking. Does anyone have a working Begemot sim setup with networking, used with 2.11BSD? If so, could you post your config files? The Begemot sim seems a lot more complex to set up than Supnik. Cheers, Richard Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA32905 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:44:03 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> Thu Feb 1 08:42:02 2001 Received: from amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net [195.40.1.45]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA32901 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:43:59 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com) Received: from bigfoot.com (dsl-212-135-223-35.dsl.easynet.co.uk [212.135.223.35]) by amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 372D317941 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:42:24 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <3A7894BA.370723F0(a)bigfoot.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:42:02 +0000 From: Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: PUPS List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] File exchange with Supnik sim Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk I've tried the suggestions for getting files in and out of the Supnik sim, in particular using rl0 mapped to x.tar, and 'tar cvf /dev/rrl0a /etc/hosts'. However, tar complains: 'tar: tape write error: Read-only file system'. The disklabel for rl0 looks like: # /dev/rrl0a: type: old DEC disk: label: flags: bytes/sector: 512 sectors/track: 20 tracks/cylinder: 2 sectors/cylinder: 40 cylinders: 0 rpm: 0 interleave: 0 trackskew: 0 cylinderskew: 0 headswitch: 0 # milliseconds track-to-track seek: 0 # milliseconds drivedata: 0 1 partitions: # size offset fstype [fsize bsize] a: 10240 0 2.11BSD 1024 1024 # (Cyl. 0 - 255) cylinders/unit 0 Warning, revolutions/minute 0 boot block size 0 super block size 0 partition a: extends past end of unit 0 10240 0 Presumably I need to create a valid disklabel, but it would be good to have some advice on what a valid one would look like. I've also tried the same sort of thing with 'tar cvbBf 20 /dev/rmt0 /etc/hosts', and something like a tar file is produced - however, GNU tar on Linux and FreeBSD 4.2 tar can't read this, saying 'this doesn't look like a tar file'. Is there some trick to getting this to work, and am I better off using rl0 or rmt0? Richard Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA33243 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:16:28 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Thu Feb 1 09:14:49 2001 Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (postfix(a)wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA33239 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:16:24 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from grog(a)lemis.com) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 172826AC9E; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:44:49 +1030 (CST) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:44:49 +1030 From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> To: Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> Cc: PUPS List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] Re: 2.11BSD networking on simulator Message-ID: <20010201094448.D70596(a)wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <3A78919C.3D604E23(a)bigfoot.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3A78919C.3D604E23(a)bigfoot.com>; from rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com on Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 10:28:44PM +0000 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk [Format recovered--see http://www.lemis.com/email/email-format.html] Your message contained alternate long and short lines On Wednesday, 31 January 2001 at 22:28:44 +0000, Richard Donkin wrote: > I'm running 2.11BSD on the Supnik simulator, and wondering how to > get it networked. This sim seems to only support serial lines, so > maybe I have to move over to the Begemot simulator - in which case, > is it best to use FreeBSD or Linux as the host for the sim? I'm > more familiar with Linux but I have FreeBSD running now - the > question is what's easier to set up for networking. The Begemot emulator was written on BSD, so you'll probably find it easier to use under FreeBSD. > Does anyone have a working Begemot sim setup with networking, used > with 2.11BSD? If so, could you post your config files? The Begemot > sim seems a lot more complex to set up than Supnik. *sigh* I used to, and it worked well. A number of changes in FreeBSD have rendered the emulator non-functional, and I haven't had time to find out what's wrong. I'll take a look and see if I can see anything obvious, but it might take me a while. Greg -- When replying to this message, please take care not to mutilate the original text. For more information, see http://www.lemis.com/email.html Finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA33329 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:31:29 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Thu Feb 1 09:17:54 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA33322 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:31:25 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f0VNHsd17441 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:17:54 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:17:54 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200101312317.f0VNHsd17441(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD networking on simulator Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> > I'm running 2.11BSD on the Supnik simulator, and wondering how to get it > networked. It can not be done except perhaps with a SL/IP link. The Supnik simulator does not have an emulated ethernet device. > Begemot simulator - in which case, is it best to use FreeBSD or Linux as > the host I use BSD/OS myself, but FreeBSD works very nicely also. I've not tried it with linux. > Does anyone have a working Begemot sim setup with networking, used with > 2.11BSD? If so, Quite a few folks have it running. > could you post your config files? The Begemot sim seems a lot more > complex to set up than Supnik. Yes, it is quite a bit more complex (cryptic) to set up. Here's what I use to run P11 with. If you strip out all of the macro preprocessing stuff the config file is much more readable and not nearly as cryptic as before. Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com ------------------ set clock_rate 60 ctrl rk 017777400 0220 5 4000 end ctrl rl 017774400 0160 4 4000 end ctrl rp 017776700 0254 5 4000 dev 0 ./2.11BSD 1999 dev 1 ./junk 1999 end ctrl kl dev 017777560 060 064 4 tty_net -7 -t 10000 dev 017776500 0300 0304 4 tty_net -7 -t 10001 end ctrl mr 017777520 ./rp.boot end ctrl lp 017777514 0200 4 end ctrl tm 017772520 0224 5 # dev 0 /tmp/foo end ctrl qna 017774440 5 0x08:0x00:0x2b:0x07:0x82:0x6c 0xf8:0x7a qna.rom dev epp_tun tun0 0x08:0x00:0x2b:0x07:0x82:0x6c 0x08:0x00:0x2b:0x07:0x82:0x00 end # The toy clock. # ctrl toy 017777526 end Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA33890 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 12:39:12 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> Thu Feb 1 11:37:29 2001 Received: from arundel.fortyfour.org (138bus2.tampabay.rr.com [24.94.138.2]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA33886 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 12:39:07 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com) Received: from tampabay.rr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arundel.fortyfour.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f111bTR01279; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 20:37:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A78BDD9.995B3F42(a)tampabay.rr.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 20:37:29 -0500 From: Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; NetBSD 1.5.1_ALPHA i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? References: <200101302330.PAA29420(a)chiton.ucsd.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Carl Lowenstein wrote: > > > From wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 14:16 PST 2001 > > > > Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :( > > That's the problem. > > Why, said he wonderingly. Is the 11/34 one of those machines that does > not have a directly addressable PSW at 177776 so it must be done with > MPTS and MFPS instructions? Thats all I can think of immediately. > > ... When I looked last night at the machine assist (mch.s) for Ultrix-11/3.1 source, all I could easily find was consistent with this, contained in the V6 start document: The main difference between an 11/40 and an 11/45 (or 11/70) system is that in the former instruction restart after a segmentation violation caused by overflowing a user stack must be handled by software, while in the latter machines there is hardware help. which in more detail means, if I understand right, there is no SSR2 register in the MMU so the kernel code needs to disassemble the instruction to backup over it for restarting as per above. The Ultrix mch.s file has code that does this (quite a lot) and I noticed a few cases that checked it the cputype is 34. Cheers, -- Ken Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA35763 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 20:11:50 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 3 months

Re: [pups] Re: regarding bsd 4.3 for vax machines documentation

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> wrote: > Check the UNIX Heritage Society at > http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/TUHS for details of 4.3BSD and how you > can get it for the Vax. For VAX 4.3BSD UNIX specifically, check out: http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Quasijarus/ -- Michael Sokolov Public Service Agent International Engineering and Science Task Force 1351 VINE AVE APT 27 Phone: +1-714-738-5409 FULLERTON CA 92833-4291 USA (home office) E-mail: msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA19895 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:26:38 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Tue Jan 30 14:25:17 2001 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19891 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:26:36 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f0U4PIO32651 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:25:18 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200101300425.f0U4PIO32651(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] Re: new VTserver (was DZ-11 driver) In-Reply-To: <200101290215.NAA06982(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au> from John Holden at "Jan 29, 2001 01:15:11 pm" Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:25:17 +1100 (EST) CC: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL68 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by Robin Birch: > Warren, > Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a > tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device. You > could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more > complex boot driver in. If you use the console then that shoud be > universal across all PDP11s. > > Robin Done! See http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver and http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver/vtserver/vtreadme.html for details. At the present I have Ersatz-2.0 running as a PDP-11/34A, one RK05 and just the console. I have my tape server connected to the serial console line, and I'm bringing in an RK05 disk image: Virtual tape server, $Revision: 2.0 $ Running command stty -f /dev/ttyid1 9600 cs8 clocal -crtscts Tape records are: 0 tinyboot 1 copy 2 root.img Opening port /dev/ttyd1 .... Port open E11>show cpu Emulation: PDP-11/34a, FP11A NOASR, NOCCR, NOCDR, NOCHR, NOCMDR, NOCPUERR, NOCSM, NODSPACE, NODUALREGSET, NODESTFIRST, EIS, NOFPBACKOUT, FPP, NOHALT4, NOJMPPLUS2, JMP4, NOKTJ11B, NOMBR, NOMFPT, NOMMTRAPS, MMU, NOMMU22, NOMR, NOMSEA, NOMSER, MXPS, ODD, NOPARCSR, NOPCR, NOPIRQ, PSWIO, NOQBUS, NOSIZE, NOSPL, SR, NOSR1, NOSTACKLIM, NOSUPMODE, NOSYSID, NOTSTSET, UNDOAUTO, NOUMAP Host: Cyrix 486, NPX E11>g 70000 Opened tinyboot rrrrrrrrrrrrrr EOF 40tinyboot from virtual tape server Load tape record: 1 Opened copy rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrcopy Infile: vt(0,0,2) Outfile: rk(0,0,0) Opened root.img rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr 100K sent rrrrrrrrrrrrrrr So no need for DZ-11, but many thanks to Norman, John and others who wrote code for me. I'll probably still try to add DZ-11 support. Cheers, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA19994 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:44:56 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Tue Jan 30 14:43:34 2001 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19990 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:44:55 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f0U4hYh32768 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:43:34 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200101300443.f0U4hYh32768(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:43:34 +1100 (EST) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL68 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Now that I (think I) have got a working system of loading a bootable disk image over a serial line into a PDP-11/34, can someone create a suitable disk image? I'm away until Feb 14th and won't be able to do it. The requestor is Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com>, who says: I've recently acquired a working PDP-11/34, with RK05s. (I also have some Plessey DD 11/80s for it.) My 11/34 is mapped, with 124k available; I also have another memory card with 128k on it, and if I can ever find any documentation on the Plessey memory cards and the memory management switch settings, I may have 252k one of these days. :-) I have only one DL/KL-11, but also a DZ11. He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download onto his real disk. Many thanks all! Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA21488 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:27:54 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> Tue Jan 30 17:55:19 2001 Received: from chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net [195.40.1.44]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21484 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:27:51 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com) Received: from bigfoot.com (dsl-212-135-223-35.dsl.easynet.co.uk [212.135.223.35]) by chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D518F81EE for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 07:54:33 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <3A767367.3B2FDC99(a)bigfoot.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 07:55:19 +0000 From: Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: PUPS List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] 2.11 BSD compilation fails Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi, I have got 2.11 BSD (from the rp_unknown disk) up and working on the Supnik 2.3+BB1 simulator, configured as follows: set cpu 22b set cpu 2048K at rp0 mydisks/2.11BSD/2.11_rp_unknown boot rp While tinkering with the date2.c program posted earlier by Alex Chupakhin, which now runs on 2.11 BSD btw, I discovered the following: - 'cc -o date2 date2.c' works fine, producing a 12K binary - a makefile containing this command fails - the compilation starts but fails silently, producing a 2K binary that is not marked executable. The makefile is: date2: date2.c cc -o date2 -c date2.c - 'make -n | sh' fails in the same way Is this a known problem that will be fixed by patches (none applied yet as the simulator is not networked)? Or do I need to provide more memory? Some other info: # uname -a 2.11BSD whistler-2bsd 2.11BSD 2.11 BSD UNIX #11: Tue Jan 6 16:57:02 MET 1998 root@pdp11.begemot.com:/usr/src/sys/HIPPON PDP11 By the way, if anyone else has 2.11 BSD in unpatched state and wants to set the date to 2001, email me for a copy of the updated date2.c program. Apart from this problem, 2.11BSD is working very nicely - I'm impressed that such a feature-rich Unix can even be run on a PDP-11! Cheers, Richard Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA22856 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 02:29:08 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Wed Jan 31 01:26:10 2001 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA22852 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 02:29:02 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk) Received: from falstaf.demon.co.uk ([158.152.152.109]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14Ncgp-0009DZ-0A; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:27:28 +0000 Message-ID: <NatiWLAS0td6Ewpf(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:26:10 +0000 To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au Cc: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> From: Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Subject: Re: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver References: <RQsFELAVoXd6EwKY(a)ruffnready.co.uk> <200101292137.f0TLb2d29560(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> In-Reply-To: <200101292137.f0TLb2d29560(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.00 U <YSkKJATYm0AxAbv6xwlBrCeVCW> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In message <200101292137.f0TLb2d29560(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>, Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> writes >In article by Robin Birch: >> Warren, >> Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a >> tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device. You >> could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more >> complex boot driver in. If you use the console then that shoud be >> universal across all PDP11s. >> >> Robin > >I had thought of that. I'm not sure I want to write a terminal emulator :) >I guess I should ask those people with tapeless PDP-11s. > >If you had a method of booting and installing disk images over a serial >line, would you be happy with a serial line to a `tape server' separate >to your console line, or would you rather have the two combined? > > Warren Well, the terminal emulator doesn't have to be very sophisticated as once the thing was running properly then you would use what ever the PC system had installed. The "two separate" would probably be easier to create but it occurs to me that many PCs only have one serial line and the only serial line that is common to all 11s is the console therefore only needing a single driver. Robin ____________________________________________________________________ Robin Birch robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD Old computers and radios always welcome Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA23022 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 02:57:09 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> Tue Jan 30 17:19:44 2001 Received: from mail3.microsoft.com (mail3.microsoft.com [131.107.3.123]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA23018 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 02:57:03 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from iking(a)microsoft.com) Received: from 157.54.9.100 by mail3.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:18:30 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Received: by inet-imc-03.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <D8RC1PP1>; Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:41 -0800 Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB0D(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> To: "'wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au'" <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au>, PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both ways. (I even have some original shipping boxes.) BTW, the mail Warren cites below was sent before I had really dug into my 11/34's manuals; I have 124kW of MOS memory in the machine, and RSX-11M can use it all in a "mapped" configuration. Also, if I am going to transfer a disk image, I have another DL-11 I am going to install to make use of Warren's VTServer program. TIA -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au] Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Now that I (think I) have got a working system of loading a bootable disk image over a serial line into a PDP-11/34, can someone create a suitable disk image? I'm away until Feb 14th and won't be able to do it. The requestor is Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com>, who says: I've recently acquired a working PDP-11/34, with RK05s. (I also have some Plessey DD 11/80s for it.) My 11/34 is mapped, with 124k available; I also have another memory card with 128k on it, and if I can ever find any documentation on the Plessey memory cards and the memory management switch settings, I may have 252k one of these days. :-) I have only one DL/KL-11, but also a DZ11. He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download onto his real disk. Many thanks all! Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA23100 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 03:05:55 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Mark Green <mark(a)cs.ualberta.ca> Wed Jan 31 02:04:16 2001 Received: from scapa.cs.ualberta.ca (root(a)scapa.cs.ualberta.ca [129.128.4.44]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA23096 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 03:05:51 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from mark(a)cs.ualberta.ca) Received: (from localhost user: 'mark' uid#150 fake: goodfare.cs.ualberta.ca) by scapa.cs.ualberta.ca id <S433530AbRA3QEQ>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:04:16 -0700 Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11 BSD compilation fails In-Reply-To: <3A767367.3B2FDC99(a)bigfoot.com> from Richard Donkin at "Jan 30, 2001 07:55:19 am" From: Mark Green <mark(a)cs.ualberta.ca> To: Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:04:16 -0700 (MST) CC: PUPS List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL66 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010130160418Z433530-3339+182(a)scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > > While tinkering with the date2.c program posted earlier by Alex > Chupakhin, which now runs on 2.11 BSD btw, I discovered the following: > > - 'cc -o date2 date2.c' works fine, producing a 12K binary > > - a makefile containing this command fails - the compilation starts but > fails silently, producing a 2K binary that is not marked executable. > The makefile is: > > date2: date2.c > cc -o date2 -c date2.c Remove the -c flag, it tells the compiler to only compile the program and not produce an executable. > > - 'make -n | sh' fails in the same way > -- Dr. Mark Green mark(a)cs.ualberta.ca McCalla Professor (780) 492-4584 Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX) University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA23775 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 05:22:29 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Wed Jan 31 04:20:58 2001 Received: from chiton.ucsd.edu (chiton.ucsd.edu [192.135.238.128]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA23771 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 05:22:25 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu) Received: (from cdl@localhost) by chiton.ucsd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA24283 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:20:58 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:20:58 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Message-Id: <200101301820.KAA24283(a)chiton.ucsd.edu> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. carl carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu > From owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 08:17 PST 2001 > From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> > To: "'wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au'" <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au>, > PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> > Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800 > > In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a > bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both ways. > (I even have some original shipping boxes.) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au] > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM > To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society > Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > > He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download > onto his real disk. > > Many thanks all! > > Warren > Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA23853 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 05:31:48 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> Wed Jan 31 04:30:14 2001 Received: from arundel.fortyfour.org (138bus2.tampabay.rr.com [24.94.138.2]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA23848 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 05:31:44 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com) Received: from tampabay.rr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arundel.fortyfour.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0UIUER28642; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:30:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A770836.5E42CF2B(a)tampabay.rr.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:30:14 -0500 From: Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; NetBSD 1.5.1_ALPHA i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? References: <200101301820.KAA24283(a)chiton.ucsd.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk I'll second that. The V6 tape image I provided to PUPS has the usual boot blocks at the start of the tape then as I recall three RJ05 disk images. Long long ago I think I got folks interested in using emulators like Bob Supnik's by using the first tape disk image as the "disk" image for "sim" and booted V6... but it has been more than 6 years now since I did that and I may be rusty on details. -- Ken Carl Lowenstein wrote: > > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable > RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. > > carl > > carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego > {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu > clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu > > > From owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 08:17 PST 2001 > > From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> > > To: "'wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au'" <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au>, > > PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> > > Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800 > > > > In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a > > bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both ways. > > (I even have some original shipping boxes.) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au] > > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM > > To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society > > Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > > > > > He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download > > onto his real disk. > > > > Many thanks all! > > > > Warren > >

24 years, 3 months

Re: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

I don't have a PDP-11, but I have done work in various ways with remote-device installs. If it were me I would prefer to be able to use a device distinct from the console, for several reasons: - a separate device might have an input silo (e.g. the DZ11 does); the console usually doesn't. A silo offers a little more robustness and may allow greater speeds. - it is better to keep the console available as a place for error messages to show up when things go wrong. - things are going to go wrong in any case, and I am going to have to try booting several times. If I have to get a serial-line switch or move cables back and forth, that is another thing that can go wrong, and another thing I can screw up. On the other hand, if I had the problem I would likely be happy to get any code that would help, whichever way it worked. So I also favour letting the implementor choose. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA18661 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:07:27 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> Tue Jan 30 09:19:45 2001 Received: from mail3.microsoft.com (mail3.microsoft.com [131.107.3.123]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA18657 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:07:23 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from iking(a)microsoft.com) Received: from 157.54.9.100 by mail3.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:18:44 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Received: by inet-imc-03.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <D8RCCVFR>; Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:19:55 -0800 Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB07(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> To: "'norman(a)nose.cs.utoronto.ca'" <norman(a)nose.cs.utoronto.ca>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: RE: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:19:45 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk That's why I've inquired of Warren about using the DZ-11 as the pseudo-device. I also have a console input (DL-11, from memory). The input silo is potentially a benefit, but it's not a panacea by any means -- it has to be handled pretty carefully. -- isk -----Original Message----- From: norman(a)nose.cs.utoronto.ca [mailto:norman@nose.cs.utoronto.ca] Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 2:13 PM To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver I don't have a PDP-11, but I have done work in various ways with remote-device installs. If it were me I would prefer to be able to use a device distinct from the console, for several reasons: - a separate device might have an input silo (e.g. the DZ11 does); the console usually doesn't. A silo offers a little more robustness and may allow greater speeds. - it is better to keep the console available as a place for error messages to show up when things go wrong. - things are going to go wrong in any case, and I am going to have to try booting several times. If I have to get a serial-line switch or move cables back and forth, that is another thing that can go wrong, and another thing I can screw up. On the other hand, if I had the problem I would likely be happy to get any code that would help, whichever way it worked. So I also favour letting the implementor choose. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA19302 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:59:02 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From norman(a)nose.cs.utoronto.ca [mailto:norman@nose.cs.utoronto.ca] Tue Jan 30 11:56:50 2001 Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (postfix(a)wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19298 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:58:46 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from grog(a)lemis.com) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 1488F6AC9D; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:26:50 +1030 (CST) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:26:50 +1030 From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> To: nanduri shankar <n_shankar_2001(a)yahoo.com> Cc: freebsd-doc(a)freebsd.org, UNIX Heritage Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: [pups] Re: regarding bsd 4.3 for vax machines documentation Message-ID: <20010130122650.D48490(a)wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20010129184128.50518.qmail(a)web9007.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010129184128.50518.qmail(a)web9007.mail.yahoo.com>; from n_shankar_2001(a)yahoo.com on Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 10:41:28AM -0800 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Monday, 29 January 2001 at 10:41:28 -0800, nanduri shankar wrote: > hello sir/madam, > i want to know the information about > the bsd 4.3 for vax machines . > let u provide me documentation regarding this topic. > iam waiting for your earliest reply. The FreeBSD documentation project doesn't deal with 4.3BSD, nor with Vaxen. Check the UNIX Heritage Society at http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/TUHS for details of 4.3BSD and how you can get it for the Vax. Greg -- Finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA19420 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:24:19 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 3 months

Re: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver

by Warren Toomey

In article by Robin Birch: > Warren, > Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a > tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device. You > could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more > complex boot driver in. If you use the console then that shoud be > universal across all PDP11s. > > Robin I had thought of that. I'm not sure I want to write a terminal emulator :) I guess I should ask those people with tapeless PDP-11s. If you had a method of booting and installing disk images over a serial line, would you be happy with a serial line to a `tape server' separate to your console line, or would you rather have the two combined? Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA18242 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:14:39 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 3 months

RE: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver

by Ian King

Warren, I have the DZ-11 docs; I'll scan the relevant sections and mail it to you. -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au] Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 5:25 PM To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver Hi all, I'm working on a new version of my Vtserver, which allows a PDP-11 with no tape drive to boot from a Unix/Linux server (via serial cable) and install a UNIX. See ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver At present I'm working on a new version which uses the 2.11BSD boot code so as to support more disk drives. The work in progress is at: http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver. At present it's not usable unless you have a PDP-11/45. I've got a potential user with an 11/34, two RK05s and a DZ-11. I can't find any details of DZ-11 here in my peripherals handbooks, and the 2.11 kernel drivers are a bit too complicated to read. My existing KL-11 driver is below. Can someone come up with a standalone equivalent for a DZ-11, or point me at some docs? I'll be away from 1st to 14th Feb, so there may be some delays in responding. Thanks all, Warren struct vtdevice { int rcsr,rbuf; int tcsr,tbuf; }; #define NVT 2 struct vtdevice *VTcsr[NVT + 1] = { (struct vtdevice *)0176500, /* We use VTcsr[0] unit 1 */ (struct vtdevice *)0, (struct vtdevice *)-1 }; /* Get a character, or timeout and return with hitim zero */ char vtgetc() { register c; VTcsr[0]->rcsr = 1; hitim=3; lotim=65535; while ((VTcsr[0]->rcsr&0200)==0) { lotim--; if (lotim==0) hitim--; if (hitim==0) { putchar('t'); return(0); } } c = VTcsr[0]->rbuf; return(c); } vtputc(c) register c; { register s; while((VTcsr[0]->tcsr&0200) == 0) ; s = VTcsr[0]->tcsr; VTcsr[0]->tcsr = 0; VTcsr[0]->tbuf = c; VTcsr[0]->tcsr = s; } Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA24991 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:17:28 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Wed Jan 31 08:13:30 2001 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24987 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:17:26 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f0UMDUQ35508; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:13:30 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200101302213.f0UMDUQ35508(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? In-Reply-To: <200101301820.KAA24283(a)chiton.ucsd.edu> from Carl Lowenstein at "Jan 30, 2001 10:20:58 am" To: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:13:30 +1100 (EST) CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL68 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by Carl Lowenstein: > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable > RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. > > carl Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :( That's the problem. Cheers, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25322 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:28:22 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> Wed Jan 31 08:38:15 2001 Received: from mail3.microsoft.com (mail3.microsoft.com [131.107.3.123]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA25314 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:28:18 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from iking(a)microsoft.com) Received: from 157.54.9.100 by mail3.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:48:28 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Received: by inet-imc-03.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <D8RC2W0X>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:38:29 -0800 Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB13(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> To: "'Ken Wellsch'" <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com>, Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:38:15 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it wouldn't unzip it. (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.) I've also tried the "Dennis" images, which are supposedly straight RK05 images; E11 won't boot 'em. One issue on which I'm not clear: where is the boot address? Stuff at loc 0 doesn't look like boot instructions. If I could get an image to run in an emulator (as I mentioned, I'm running E11 from DBit), I'd write some cheesy little loader to bring it down the serial line (I already have it sketched out); but until I can at least get one to boot in the emulator, I'm reluctant to spend the hours (at 9600 baud) to spray it onto a disk. <sigh> Any suggestions you may have would be greatly appreciated. -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 10:30 AM To: Carl Lowenstein Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? I'll second that. The V6 tape image I provided to PUPS has the usual boot blocks at the start of the tape then as I recall three RJ05 disk images. Long long ago I think I got folks interested in using emulators like Bob Supnik's by using the first tape disk image as the "disk" image for "sim" and booted V6... but it has been more than 6 years now since I did that and I may be rusty on details. -- Ken Carl Lowenstein wrote: > > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable > RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. > > carl > > carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego > {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu > clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu > > > From owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 08:17 PST 2001 > > From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> > > To: "'wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au'" <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au>, > > PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> > > Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800 > > > > In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a > > bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both ways. > > (I even have some original shipping boxes.) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au] > > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM > > To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society > > Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > > > > > He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download > > onto his real disk. > > > > Many thanks all! > > > > Warren > > Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25337 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:29:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com] Wed Jan 31 09:27:56 2001 Received: from arundel.fortyfour.org (138bus2.tampabay.rr.com [24.94.138.2]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25333 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:29:30 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com) Received: from tampabay.rr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arundel.fortyfour.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0UNRuR29214; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:27:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A774DFC.8A3260E8(a)tampabay.rr.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:27:56 -0500 From: Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; NetBSD 1.5.1_ALPHA i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? References: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB13(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi Ian, Indeed, looks like there has been some bit rot on the archive... sigh. Luckily I am a pack rat and have copies of my Waterloo days data. The images are all clean there. Curiously enough I even found the directory where I ran that simulation (circa Oct/94 I see). I just rebuilt the code there and ran it on my NetBSD/i386 system and it boots V6 just fine. In case you don't read minds, after doing the 'attach ...' then 'boot rk0' the intuitive V6 boot prompt '@' is where you type 'rkunix' for example B^) Almost instantly I had a 'login:' prompt, and the image is off the tape so there is no root password set... Don't forget to type 'date' when logged in ... it is a hoot to see B^) Oh heck, never thought to actually try to set the date, post 2000... maybe better to let it live back in 1975... I've tar/gzip'ed the bundle. Do you want me to try and UUencode it and mail it to you? It is nearly 1 Mbyte in binary form... Oh yeah, as Warren mentioned, stock V6 does not run on a '34. I think it ran on a '40. I know it can run on a '34 because in 1980 I started using UNIX, V6 running on a '34 B^) Cheers, -- Ken Ian King wrote: > > Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it > wouldn't unzip it. (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a > transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.) I've also tried the > "Dennis" images, which are supposedly straight RK05 images; E11 won't boot > 'em. One issue on which I'm not clear: where is the boot address? Stuff at > loc 0 doesn't look like boot instructions. > > If I could get an image to run in an emulator (as I mentioned, I'm running > E11 from DBit), I'd write some cheesy little loader to bring it down the > serial line (I already have it sketched out); but until I can at least get > one to boot in the emulator, I'm reluctant to spend the hours (at 9600 baud) > to spray it onto a disk. <sigh> > > Any suggestions you may have would be greatly appreciated. -- Ian Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25365 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:32:27 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Wed Jan 31 09:30:55 2001 Received: from chiton.ucsd.edu (chiton.ucsd.edu [192.135.238.128]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25361 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:32:23 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu) Received: (from cdl@localhost) by chiton.ucsd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA29420; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:30:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:30:55 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Message-Id: <200101302330.PAA29420(a)chiton.ucsd.edu> To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > From wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 14:16 PST 2001 > From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> > Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > To: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> > Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:13:30 +1100 (EST) > CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > In article by Carl Lowenstein: > > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major > > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable > > RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. > > > > carl > > Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :( > That's the problem. > > Cheers, > Warren Why, said he wonderingly. Is the 11/34 one of those machines that does not have a directly addressable PSW at 177776 so it must be done with MPTS and MFPS instructions? Thats all I can think of immediately. Pulling out my handy PDP-11 architecture handbook, I find this to be so. There are some other differences between 11/34 and 11/40-45 but this one would be a real show-stopper. The modifications to 6th Ed. Unix to take care of this would be concentrated in the save/raise/lower processor priority routines. Just offhand I don't think one could make a zero-length binary patch that would work on the 11/34 and remain 11/40-45 compatible. I guess I will look at locore.s tonight when I get home. That must be the place where such things happen. I wonder what the RT-11 guys did when they had the same problem. I seem to remember something involving creative use of stack pushes and RTI instructions to set the processor priority. carl Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25390 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:35:01 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> Wed Jan 31 09:33:02 2001 Received: from chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net [195.40.1.44]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25383 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:34:57 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com) Received: from bigfoot.com (dsl-212-135-223-35.dsl.easynet.co.uk [212.135.223.35]) by chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45018F8357; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:32:11 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <3A774F2E.46106B82(a)bigfoot.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:33:02 +0000 From: Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Green <mark(a)cs.ualberta.ca> Cc: PUPS List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11 BSD compilation fails References: <20010130160418Z433530-3339+182(a)scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Mark Green wrote: > > > > > While tinkering with the date2.c program posted earlier by Alex > > Chupakhin, which now runs on 2.11 BSD btw, I discovered the following: > > > > - 'cc -o date2 date2.c' works fine, producing a 12K binary > > > > - a makefile containing this command fails - the compilation starts but > > fails silently, producing a 2K binary that is not marked executable. > > The makefile is: > > > > date2: date2.c > > cc -o date2 -c date2.c > Remove the -c flag, it tells the compiler to only compile the program > and not produce an executable. Ooops... I must have been up too late when I came up with that one. Thanks Richard Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA26019 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 12:46:59 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> Wed Jan 31 11:45:20 2001 Received: from mailhost.cs.uofs.edu (mailhost.cs.uofs.edu [134.198.169.1]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26015 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 12:46:54 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from bill(a)cs.uofs.edu) Received: from triangle.cs.uofs.edu (IDENT:root@triangle.cs.uofs.edu [134.198.172.101]) by mailhost.cs.uofs.edu (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id UAA37178 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 20:45:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (bill@localhost) by triangle.cs.uofs.edu (8.9.3/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA03841 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 20:45:24 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: triangle.cs.uofs.edu: bill owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 20:45:20 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? In-Reply-To: <3A774DFC.8A3260E8(a)tampabay.rr.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10101302039390.3188-100000(a)triangle.cs.uofs.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Tue, 30 Jan 2001, Ken Wellsch wrote: > Don't forget to type 'date' when logged in ... it is a hoot to see B^) > > Oh heck, never thought to actually try to set the date, post 2000... > maybe better to let it live back in 1975... > I assume it is just like Ultrix-11 was, soooooo Here's a quick way to get the date right until you get a chance to install a fixed "date" command. Yes, it is only the date command that is not Y2K ready. First: Set the date to 9912312359 Second: wait one minute. It is now 1 Jan 2000. Third: Set the date to 12312359 Fourth: wait one minute. It is now 1 Jan 2001. Fifth: Set the month, day, hour and minute to the current time. Voila. Primitive, but it works. I guess I could try building the GNU date command on Ultrix-11 or maybe just get the sources from FreeBSD. All the best. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h> Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA27811 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 18:07:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> Wed Jan 31 16:58:53 2001 Received: from mail3.microsoft.com (mail3.microsoft.com [131.107.3.123]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA27807 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 18:07:29 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from iking(a)microsoft.com) Received: from 157.54.9.100 by mail3.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:03:00 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Received: by inet-imc-03.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <D0V9B1YG>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:59:19 -0800 Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB1A(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> To: "'Carl Lowenstein'" <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu>, wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:58:53 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Again, I'd be glad to do things like this, if I could get an image to run on an emulator -- that's been a goal. I've tried various 'processors' (in emulation), but not been successful at booting the Unix kernel. Can anyone say, "I booted image X on emulator Y and had a successfully running Unix"? If so, please please please share your experience -- I haven't been able to boot anything out of the PUPS archive on the E11 emulator (held out by some to be the best). And, if/when I have success, I promise to share a field report. :-) -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Carl Lowenstein [mailto:cdl@mpl.ucsd.edu] Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 3:31 PM To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > From wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 14:16 PST 2001 > From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> > Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > To: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> > Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:13:30 +1100 (EST) > CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > In article by Carl Lowenstein: > > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major > > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable > > RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. > > > > carl > > Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :( > That's the problem. > > Cheers, > Warren Why, said he wonderingly. Is the 11/34 one of those machines that does not have a directly addressable PSW at 177776 so it must be done with MPTS and MFPS instructions? Thats all I can think of immediately. Pulling out my handy PDP-11 architecture handbook, I find this to be so. There are some other differences between 11/34 and 11/40-45 but this one would be a real show-stopper. The modifications to 6th Ed. Unix to take care of this would be concentrated in the save/raise/lower processor priority routines. Just offhand I don't think one could make a zero-length binary patch that would work on the 11/34 and remain 11/40-45 compatible. I guess I will look at locore.s tonight when I get home. That must be the place where such things happen. I wonder what the RT-11 guys did when they had the same problem. I seem to remember something involving creative use of stack pushes and RTI instructions to set the processor priority. carl Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA27852 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 18:13:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> Wed Jan 31 17:05:55 2001 Received: from mail3.microsoft.com (mail3.microsoft.com [131.107.3.123]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA27848 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 18:13:30 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from iking(a)microsoft.com) Received: from 157.54.9.100 by mail3.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:04:36 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Received: by inet-imc-03.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <D0V9BGQ8>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:05:48 -0800 Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB1C(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> To: "'Ken Wellsch'" <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:05:55 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Ken, if you send it to my personal email account, there's no size restriction (I run the mail server); it's iking(a)killthewabbit.org. I would greatly appreciate your sending it to me. BTW, I've been using 1977 (the year I graduated fron high school) on my PDP-11 under RSX-11; some tools won't accept the "01" year. :-) Cheers -- isk PS: I've hired a lot of Waterloo folks -- smart buggers, the lot of them. :-) -----Original Message----- From: Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 3:28 PM To: Ian King Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Hi Ian, Indeed, looks like there has been some bit rot on the archive... sigh. Luckily I am a pack rat and have copies of my Waterloo days data. The images are all clean there. Curiously enough I even found the directory where I ran that simulation (circa Oct/94 I see). I just rebuilt the code there and ran it on my NetBSD/i386 system and it boots V6 just fine. In case you don't read minds, after doing the 'attach ...' then 'boot rk0' the intuitive V6 boot prompt '@' is where you type 'rkunix' for example B^) Almost instantly I had a 'login:' prompt, and the image is off the tape so there is no root password set... Don't forget to type 'date' when logged in ... it is a hoot to see B^) Oh heck, never thought to actually try to set the date, post 2000... maybe better to let it live back in 1975... I've tar/gzip'ed the bundle. Do you want me to try and UUencode it and mail it to you? It is nearly 1 Mbyte in binary form... Oh yeah, as Warren mentioned, stock V6 does not run on a '34. I think it ran on a '40. I know it can run on a '34 because in 1980 I started using UNIX, V6 running on a '34 B^) Cheers, -- Ken Ian King wrote: > > Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it > wouldn't unzip it. (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a > transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.) I've also tried the > "Dennis" images, which are supposedly straight RK05 images; E11 won't boot > 'em. One issue on which I'm not clear: where is the boot address? Stuff at > loc 0 doesn't look like boot instructions. > > If I could get an image to run in an emulator (as I mentioned, I'm running > E11 from DBit), I'd write some cheesy little loader to bring it down the > serial line (I already have it sketched out); but until I can at least get > one to boot in the emulator, I'm reluctant to spend the hours (at 9600 baud) > to spray it onto a disk. <sigh> > > Any suggestions you may have would be greatly appreciated. -- Ian Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA29613 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 00:21:49 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com] Wed Jan 31 23:20:06 2001 Received: from arundel.fortyfour.org (138bus2.tampabay.rr.com [24.94.138.2]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29604 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 00:21:43 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com) Received: from tampabay.rr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arundel.fortyfour.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0VDK7R00577 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:20:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A781106.F7302A5A(a)tampabay.rr.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:20:06 -0500 From: Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; NetBSD 1.5.1_ALPHA i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? References: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB13(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Ian King wrote: > > Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it > wouldn't unzip it. (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a > transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.) So going over all the things I can easily do data integrity checks on, I've run 'gzip -tv' on all the GZip'ed things and found three that are apparently damaged: gzip: ./PDP-11/Distributions/dec/Ultrix-3.1/ultrix-3.1-bootape.tar.gz: invalid compressed data--crc error gzip: ./PDP-11/Distributions/research/Ken_Wellsch_v6/v6.tape.gz: invalid compressed data--crc error gzip: ./PDP-11/Distributions/unsw/90/record0.gz: invalid compressed data--crc error I can't comment on the *.Z compressed archives as they do not do any crc. I will have to peruse my stack of archive CD's made at various stages of the archive to see if I have the other two (I have a good 'v6.tape.gz' file). I did not try and run the MD5 list yet. But this is an example of why I had been pushing for the use of MD5 for all items in the archive... B^) -- Ken Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA30614 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 03:08:48 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> Thu Feb 1 02:07:09 2001 Received: from arundel.fortyfour.org (138bus2.tampabay.rr.com [24.94.138.2]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA30610 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 03:08:43 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com) Received: from tampabay.rr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arundel.fortyfour.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0VG79R00768; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:07:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A78382D.37188B15(a)tampabay.rr.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:07:09 -0500 From: Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; NetBSD 1.5.1_ALPHA i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10101302039390.3188-100000(a)triangle.cs.uofs.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > On Tue, 30 Jan 2001, Ken Wellsch wrote: > > > Don't forget to type 'date' when logged in ... it is a hoot to see B^) > > > > Oh heck, never thought to actually try to set the date, post 2000... > > maybe better to let it live back in 1975... > > I assume it is just like Ultrix-11 was, soooooo > Here's a quick way to get the date right until you get a chance to > install a fixed "date" command. Yes, it is only the date command > that is not Y2K ready. No, V6 predates Ultrix-11 by just a bit I believe. The date setting format on V6 appears to be '1231245999', that is two digits for: month, day, hour, minute, year. A trailing 'p' means the hours are 12 based (and it is PM), otherwise 24 based. I can confirm as I expected that setting 0131110301 puts me at 1970 B^) No big deal. I can see in the 'date' source what it is doing... Thanks for the 'put it into the year 2001' method! -- Ken

24 years, 3 months

[pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver

by Warren Toomey

Hi all, I'm working on a new version of my Vtserver, which allows a PDP-11 with no tape drive to boot from a Unix/Linux server (via serial cable) and install a UNIX. See ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver At present I'm working on a new version which uses the 2.11BSD boot code so as to support more disk drives. The work in progress is at: http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver. At present it's not usable unless you have a PDP-11/45. I've got a potential user with an 11/34, two RK05s and a DZ-11. I can't find any details of DZ-11 here in my peripherals handbooks, and the 2.11 kernel drivers are a bit too complicated to read. My existing KL-11 driver is below. Can someone come up with a standalone equivalent for a DZ-11, or point me at some docs? I'll be away from 1st to 14th Feb, so there may be some delays in responding. Thanks all, Warren struct vtdevice { int rcsr,rbuf; int tcsr,tbuf; }; #define NVT 2 struct vtdevice *VTcsr[NVT + 1] = { (struct vtdevice *)0176500, /* We use VTcsr[0] unit 1 */ (struct vtdevice *)0, (struct vtdevice *)-1 }; /* Get a character, or timeout and return with hitim zero */ char vtgetc() { register c; VTcsr[0]->rcsr = 1; hitim=3; lotim=65535; while ((VTcsr[0]->rcsr&0200)==0) { lotim--; if (lotim==0) hitim--; if (hitim==0) { putchar('t'); return(0); } } c = VTcsr[0]->rbuf; return(c); } vtputc(c) register c; { register s; while((VTcsr[0]->tcsr&0200) == 0) ; s = VTcsr[0]->tcsr; VTcsr[0]->tcsr = 0; VTcsr[0]->tbuf = c; VTcsr[0]->tcsr = s; } Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA15283 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 01:14:40 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Tue Jan 30 00:11:33 2001 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA15279 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 01:14:36 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk) Received: from falstaf.demon.co.uk ([158.152.152.109]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14NF3N-0006Ms-0A; Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:13:10 +0000 Message-ID: <RQsFELAVoXd6EwKY(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:11:33 +0000 To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au Cc: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> From: Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Subject: Re: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver References: <200101290124.f0T1Ois26299(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> In-Reply-To: <200101290124.f0T1Ois26299(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.00 U <YSkKJATYm0AxAbv6xwlBrCeVCW> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Warren, Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device. You could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more complex boot driver in. If you use the console then that shoud be universal across all PDP11s. Robin In message <200101290124.f0T1Ois26299(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>, Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> writes >Hi all, > I'm working on a new version of my Vtserver, which allows a PDP-11 >with no tape drive to boot from a Unix/Linux server (via serial cable) and >install a UNIX. See ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver > >At present I'm working on a new version which uses the 2.11BSD boot code >so as to support more disk drives. The work in progress is at: >http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver. At present it's not usable >unless you have a PDP-11/45. > >I've got a potential user with an 11/34, two RK05s and a DZ-11. I can't >find any details of DZ-11 here in my peripherals handbooks, and the 2.11 >kernel drivers are a bit too complicated to read. > >My existing KL-11 driver is below. Can someone come up with a standalone >equivalent for a DZ-11, or point me at some docs? > >I'll be away from 1st to 14th Feb, so there may be some delays in >responding. > >Thanks all, > Warren > > >struct vtdevice { > int rcsr,rbuf; > int tcsr,tbuf; >}; > >#define NVT 2 >struct vtdevice *VTcsr[NVT + 1] = { > (struct vtdevice *)0176500, /* We use VTcsr[0] unit 1 */ > (struct vtdevice *)0, > (struct vtdevice *)-1 >}; > >/* Get a character, or timeout and return with hitim zero */ >char vtgetc() >{ > register c; > > VTcsr[0]->rcsr = 1; hitim=3; lotim=65535; > > while ((VTcsr[0]->rcsr&0200)==0) { > lotim--; > if (lotim==0) hitim--; > if (hitim==0) { putchar('t'); return(0); } > } > c = VTcsr[0]->rbuf; return(c); >} > >vtputc(c) >register c; >{ > register s; > > while((VTcsr[0]->tcsr&0200) == 0) ; > s = VTcsr[0]->tcsr; > VTcsr[0]->tcsr = 0; VTcsr[0]->tbuf = c; VTcsr[0]->tcsr = s; >} ____________________________________________________________________ Robin Birch robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD Old computers and radios always welcome

24 years, 3 months

[pups] Re: Ultrix-11 Latest News

by bill＠cs.scranton.edu

[This is a courtesy copy of a message which was also posted to the newsgroup(s) shown in the header.] In article <944vup$3e6$1(a)news.IAEhv.nl>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems(a)iae.nl> writes: |> Bill, |> |> tried to telnet but no joy |> |> Bill Gunshannon heeft geschreven in bericht |> <944t6p$1o3d$1(a)info.cs.uofs.edu>... |> >Ok, here it is. An 11/23+ running Ultrix-11 3.1, available on the |> >Net. |> > |> >telnet to 134.198.175.226 |> >login as guest |> >password is ultrix11 Well, the bad news it it appears I forgot that at one time no the distnat past TTL was set to some very low number. If you are more than a couple hops away from the University of Scranton you won't be able to get in yet. However, good news on two fronts. I have put up the sources and if I have the time I will try to find the offending bit this weekend. (Anybody who remembers fixing this in any Ultrix-11 or Ultrix-32 when it happened originaly feel free to save me the trouble of searching through the source.) the other good news is I may be acquiring an 11/93 shortly. If I do and it actually still works (one never knows inthese acquisitions) I will probably be putting Ultrix-11 on it and building a Split I&D system. That will then become the system I will put on the Net to play with. Hsve a nice weekend, all. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>

24 years, 4 months

[pups] Ultrix-11 Latest News

by Bill Gunshannon

It was pointed out to me that I was remiss in not making this announcement here as well as on USENET. Mea culpa, mea culpa. ------- Ok, here it is. An 11/23+ running Ultrix-11 3.1, available on the Net. telnet to 134.198.175.226 login as guest password is ultrix11 Don't expect much. As I said, it's only an 11/23+. It has 3M of memory and an RA81 disk. Things like ftp "run", but they don't "work". Look to be lack of buffer space, but without any documentation I have not found out how to tune it any more than it is now. Of course, if I ever get an 11/73 running I could build a split I&D system which should be considerably better. Please don't try to crash it. It is likely to do that all by itself anyway and you would just keep others from trying it out. No, it's not running any critical applications. If you want to move some code over to try the compiler or something, try "gkermit". But remember, it won;t stream and it needs real small packets. I await any comments and am still hoping someone will find a box of Ultrix-11 docs sitting in a closet somewhere that I will gladly pay to ship here. All the best. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>

24 years, 4 months

[pups] Stupid question..

by Martijn van Buul

Hey. I'm playing around with a /53 running 2.11BSD, trying to port some software, and I have a (probably stupid) problem: environ. When I write a simple program like #include <stdio.h> extern char **environ; void main(argc, argv) int argc; char **argv; { printf("Hello world!"); environ=environ; } and compile & link it using cc ("cc -o test test.c"), things go fine, however if I link things manually ("cc -c test.c ; ld -o test test.o -lc") I get an unresolved _environ. By some experimentation, I noticed that including /lib/crt0.o in the linker helps to some extent - however, the binary generated by cc works like a charm, while the manually linked version quits with a bus error. Any ideas? -- Martijn van Buul - Pino(a)dohd.org - http://www.stack.nl/~martijnb/ Geek code: G-- - Visit OuterSpace: mud.stack.nl 3333 Kees J. Bot: The sum of CPU power and user brain power is a constant. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA08435 for pups-liszt; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:22:57 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Tue Jan 16 08:15:45 2001 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08430 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:22:55 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f0FMTm309828 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:29:48 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08355 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:17:00 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f0FMFjJ26746 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:15:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:15:45 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200101152215.f0FMFjJ26746(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Stupid question.. Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> > > however if I link things manually ("cc -c test.c ; ld -o test test.o -lc") > I get an unresolved _environ. By some experimentation, I noticed that > including /lib/crt0.o in the linker helps to some extent - however, > the binary generated by cc works like a charm, while the manually > linked version quits with a bus error. Any ideas? Try placing /lib/crt0.o before the test.o: ld -o test /lib/crt0.o test.o -lc on another note it's usually not a good idea to call a program 'test' because when you are least expecting it you will end up running /bin/test and wonder what is wrong. Steven

24 years, 4 months

[pups] RL0{1,2} platters available in Portland, OR

by Aaron J. Grier

my company was recently doing some housecleaning and unearthed about a dozen RL01 and RL02 platters, along with a bunch of 8" RT-11 floppies, and doc set for RT-11. seeing that used platters seem to still be rather common, I'm sure I can talk accounting into letting them go for the price of shipping. Likewise with the floppies and documentation. (of course Portland people can pick up for free, or if you're in SE PDX, I can deliver!) We have the original DEC packaging for many of the platters, and can ship worldwide via UPS, DHL, etc... I guess to bring things back on topic a little, what's the background / specs of the RL-series drives? I know they're 5 and 10MB, but that's about it. What interface boards were available for the various PDPs and VAXen? How fast(?)/reliable/cranky were these things? :) -- Aaron J. Grier | "Not your ordinary poofy goof." | agrier(a)poofygoof.com "[I]f you can find the purity in hardcore and gabber, I guess you're already screwed up enough." -- Drew Smith

24 years, 4 months

[pups] Dead period on tuhs, pups lists

by Warren Toomey

All, I'm just off for a 4-day break, so messages for the tuhs and pups mailing lists will be queued until I get back. Hope you all have a safe and happy festive time! Cheers, Warren

24 years, 5 months

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