TUHS

tuhs@tuhs.org

6 participants
6532 discussions

Re: [pups] missing space in 2.11_rp_unknown

by Christian Groessler

Hi, On 02/25/2002 09:16:31 AM PST "Steven M. Schultz" wrote: > >Hi - > >> > I see Greg mentioned running fsck. That sounds like an excellent >> > suggestion. >> >> Yes, but it didn't help :-( > >> What can this be? > > It might be necessary to use the '-s' option . "fsck -s" will > unconditionally rebuild the freelist. This didn't work either. > >> I tried something else, I copied the contents of the root fs >> elsewhere, newfs'd the root partition and copied the contents back. > > Did you use dump+restor? No, tar. I tried again with dump and restor and now it works! Thanks for the hint! I seldomly use dump/restore. Now there's enough space in /: $ df Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on /dev/xp0a 7816 2658 5158 04% / /dev/xp0g 151625 117599 34026 08% /usr $ Btw, the capacity values look a bit strange? regards, chris

23 years, 4 months

Re: [pups] missing space in 2.11_rp_unknown

by Steven M. Schultz

Hi - > > I see Greg mentioned running fsck. That sounds like an excellent > > suggestion. > > Yes, but it didn't help :-( > What can this be? It might be necessary to use the '-s' option . "fsck -s" will unconditionally rebuild the freelist. > I tried something else, I copied the contents of the root fs > elsewhere, newfs'd the root partition and copied the contents back. Did you use dump+restor? > But now booting stops when it normally starts init, > Oh no! > ------------- > : unix > Boot: bootdev=05010 bootcsr=0176700 > > 2.11 BSD UNIX #1: Fri Feb 15 18:47:18 PST 2002 > chris@pdp11:/usr/src/sys/PDP11CPG > > attaching qe0 csr 174440 > qe0: DEC DEQNA addr 08:00:2b:07:82:6c > attaching lo0 > > phys mem = 2097152 > avail mem = 1647872 > user mem = 307200 > > ------------- > > ... and here it hangs. Do I have to consider something else when I > newfs the root partition? The boot block, /boot, /unix, /netnix and /etc/init, /bin/sh are intact since the system got as far as printing the memory numbers. After the memory stats the '/etc/autoconfig' process should be run ('init' runs it) and the device probes should take place. The only thing I can think of (and it's a wild guess) is that the "clock" isn't running - thru the boot process clock interrupts aren't used but when 'init' goes to run 'autoconfig' the system nees clock interrupts in order to drive the context switching. Either the clock isn't running or /etc/autoconfig got corrupted somehow in the copying. Steven Schultz sms(a)2bsd.com

23 years, 4 months

Re: [pups] missing space in 2.11_rp_unknown

by Christian Groessler

Hi, On 02/22/2002 07:31:49 PM PST "Steven M. Schultz" wrote: > >> From: Christian Groessler <cpg(a)aladdin.de> >> I'm running above image with the p11 emulator, and the root partition >> is almost full. >> >> # df >> Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on >> root 7816 7030 786 10% / >> >> but looking at files, I only see 2MB+ in use: >> >> # du -s / >> 2702 > > I see Greg mentioned running fsck. That sounds like an excellent > suggestion. Yes, but it didn't help :-( What can this be? I tried something else, I copied the contents of the root fs elsewhere, newfs'd the root partition and copied the contents back. But now booting stops when it normally starts init, ------------- : unix Boot: bootdev=05010 bootcsr=0176700 2.11 BSD UNIX #1: Fri Feb 15 18:47:18 PST 2002 chris@pdp11:/usr/src/sys/PDP11CPG attaching qe0 csr 174440 qe0: DEC DEQNA addr 08:00:2b:07:82:6c attaching lo0 phys mem = 2097152 avail mem = 1647872 user mem = 307200 ------------- ... and here it hangs. Do I have to consider something else when I newfs the root partition? regards, chris

23 years, 4 months

[pups] PDP 11

by Nutech

I post this message with hope that someone out there can help me with a problem I have at hand. My company recently bought a preowned printing machine, which uses a PDP11/73 BA23 connected to a VT240 terminal to control the functions of the machine. Needless to say that we are unable to make the PDP run since we have no knowledge of the machine and have no one to look upto for guidance.. While we are able to power on the PDP, the VT240 is dead. Looking for help I came across your site and got the feeling that you might be able to help me out of my current deliema. While I have the original program disks, I have NO operating disks or knowledge of what OS is on the PDP. The printing machine is controlled by the PDP thru 4 serial ports (TT0 thru TT3), the machine has a total of 8 ports, 4 are left unused. PLEASE HELP. Regards, Shroff repro(a)nutechgroup.net

23 years, 4 months

Re: [pups] missing space in 2.11_rp_unknown

by Steven M. Schultz

Hi! > From: Christian Groessler <cpg(a)aladdin.de> > I'm running above image with the p11 emulator, and the root partition > is almost full. > > # df > Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on > root 7816 7030 786 10% / > > but looking at files, I only see 2MB+ in use: > > # du -s / > 2702 > This persists over reboots, so it doesn't seem to be a large deleted > file which is still in use. It might be a corrupt freelist. If that is the case then running fsck will detect that fact and reclaim the space by rebuilding the freelist. > Where is the missing space? My guess is it's "missing" - that can happen if the system's shutdown (or the emulator terminated) prematurely. In that case the freelist metadata might not have been updated. I see Greg mentioned running fsck. That sounds like an excellent suggestion. Cheers, Steven Schultz sms(a)2bsd.com

23 years, 4 months

[pups] missing space in 2.11_rp_unknown

by Christian Groessler

Hi, I'm running above image with the p11 emulator, and the root partition is almost full. I tried to clean it up, but I cannot find where the space is used. df says: -------- # df Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on root 7816 7030 786 10% / -------- but looking at files, I only see 2MB+ in use: -------- # du -s / 2702 -------- This persists over reboots, so it doesn't seem to be a large deleted file which is still in use. Where is the missing space? regards, chris

23 years, 4 months

Re: [TUHS] 4.4BSD-Lite binaries for SPARC and PMAX

by Warren Toomey

> Warren, maybe you know a PUPS volunteer in the USA that has appropriate > equipment and experience to do this job? This would also reduce shipping > efforts and cost for Mr. McKusick. (And risk of damage of the tapes, as > it would avoid shipping across the "big pond".) I've just sent some mail to Tim Shoppa, asking if he would be willing to read the tapes for us. Cheers, Warren

23 years, 4 months

v7 upgrade

by Rhys Weatherley

Hi, I've been lurking here for a week or two, reading the archives on porting v7 to x86, etc. On a lark, I downloaded the v7 sources and started to "upgrade" them so the userland can build and run on top of modern OS kernels such as Linux. The bulk of libc is the same (warts and all), with the "sys" layer replaced with modern syscalls. Perhaps it is a bit "sacrilegious", but I believe it makes the code more accessible for experimentation, and it should solve the "how do we get a PDP-11 compiler" problem: we use the original hosted on top of a modern kernel as a cross-compiler. Check it out and let me know what you think. Most of the libraries have been upgraded, with a handful of the simpler command-line utilities. http://www.southern-storm.com.au/v7upgrade.html Cheers, Rhys.

23 years, 4 months

I N T E R N E T I N C O M E ! ! !

by casanndra2002＠yahoo.com

23 years, 4 months

Legal ramifications putting certain things on my web site?

by Derrik Walker v2.0

I've started porting some of the old UNIX programs to Mac OS X. I've got about 1/2 the games, that should be ok, but I also have other things like crypt and makekey. I'd like to make these available in binary form, but I don't want the men in black knocking at my door either... Any thoughts? On a side note, I simply can not believe how easy it is to compile this old code under Mac OS X. for some of it, it's proving easier than porting Linux code ( if you've only known how long I worked on linux's fortune, and the old one just compiled no fuss, no problems ). Also, if your wandering why ... that's easy, because I can. Thanks. - Derrik firebug(a)apk.net http://junior.apk.net/~firebug --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The number of UNIX installations has grown to 10, with more expected. -- The Unix Programmer's Manual, 2nd Edition, June 1972

23 years, 4 months

[pups] PDP11-23

by Pieter Visser

Hello, I ám still have a working Dec pdp11-23. It runs on CTS-300 with 10 Mb Harddisk and a Tape drive for back-ups I think the programm is writen in dibol. I f you want more information about this system please reply by email If anyone can help me with the following questions. Can i connect an windows/dos sytem to the pdp11-23 and run the program. Is it possible to copy the program and run it on a Windows/Dos based machine. Hope to hear from sombody, Pieter Visser The Netherlands e-mail p.visser(a)tip.nl handy +31-(0)6-53630275 phone +31-(0)165-313597 work +31-(0)76-5022800 fax +31-(0)76-5022090

23 years, 4 months

Re: Porting Unix v6 to i386

by Aaron J. Grier

On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 10:24:30AM +0000, P.A.Osborne wrote: > The reason I want the compiler is that it will generate standalone 16 > bit code on a sensible platform. GCC doesnt produce 16 bit code as > far as I am aware - so personally I thought it would be amusing (I > must be mad) to use tools that run under DOS (well OS/2). support for PDP-11 was added to gcc a few months ago. I don't think it's been well tested, but support exists in current versions of binutils and gcc. http://pdp11.nocrew.org/ there's also support for the m68hc11/12 which are 16-bit. it seems like support for 80{,1,2}86 in gcc should be possible; it just hasn't been done yet. another compiler that might be worth looking at is SDCC http://sdcc.sourceforge.net/ which is currently targeted towards 8-bit MCUs. of course bootstrapping via the original K&R compiler would be the "classic" way to do it, though. ;) -- Aaron J. Grier | "Not your ordinary poofy goof." | agrier(a)poofygoof.com "[...] I generally haven't found IDM guys to be very good live acts, most of them just sit down at their laptop and tweak reaktor." -- Brandon Daniel

23 years, 4 months

Re: [TUHS] Re: Porting Unix v6 to i386

by John Holden

Aaron J. Grier wrote :- > support for PDP-11 was added to gcc a few months ago. It's been around since 1991 as a patch, but it didn't keep up with the newer versions of gcc

23 years, 4 months

Re: [pups] screen 3.9.9 vs. 2.11BSD write() to fifo and/or select() on socket

by Steven M. Schultz

Hi - > From: David W Talmage <talmage(a)cmf.nrl.navy.mil> > I thought that I'd read in the FM that they do. I see now that I was > mistaken,perhaps delusional. I see now that <sys/stat.h> contains the gospel: > > #define S_IFIFO 0010000 /* named pipe (fifo) - Not used by 2.11BSD */ :) Adding FIFOs to the kernel would make an interesting project though - perhaps when I become inspired/motivated I'll give it a try. > Sounds like I'm in for some deep hacking if I continue with this. Will > overlays help me here? Overlays will help if the code comes out to more than 64KB. Alas, overlays will _not_ help the dataspace requirements. The last time I looked at 'screen' I saw things like "char buf[32768];' sprinkled thru the code. So you might be in for some serious hacking to trim back the sizes of arrays/buffers/etc. It probably would also be a good idea to 'string'ify the program (there are tools to assist doing this - take a look at how sendmail and lint are built). > I wonder if setitimer() will fare any better. alarm() is obsolete. The gospel according to /usr/src/lib/libc/gen/alarm.c says: /* * Backwards compatible alarm. */ #include <sys/time.h> #include <unistd.h> unsigned int alarm(secs) unsigned int secs; { struct itimerval it, oitv; register struct itimerval *itp = ⁢ timerclear(&itp->it_interval); itp->it_value.tv_sec = secs; itp->it_value.tv_usec = 0; if (setitimer(ITIMER_REAL, itp, &oitv) < 0) return (-1); if (oitv.it_value.tv_usec) oitv.it_value.tv_sec++; return (oitv.it_value.tv_sec); } <g> > I'll send a progress report if I decide to continue this project. Thanks for > your help, Mr. Schultz. What I think you're seeing is the race condition that fork() has - there is no guarantee which process (parent or child) runs first. The test program does the fork() and the child runs to completion before the parent enters the select(). At that point the parent will wait until the alarm goes off. One thing you might try is create two separate programs. One would create the socket and wait for the other program to connect and send a string. If that works it shows that the UNIX domainsockets are working as expected and that the fork() race is indeed the problem. IF the client/server tests fail then there is something wrong in the UNIX domain socket handling that needs to be addressed. Good Luck! Cheers, Steven Schultz

23 years, 4 months

Re: [pups] screen 3.9.9 vs. 2.11BSD write() to fifo and/or select() on socket

by Steven M. Schultz

Hi! > From: David W Talmage <talmage(a)cmf.nrl.navy.mil> > Would someone please advise me about fifos and sockets in 2.11BSD? Ok ;) Don't use fifos - they don't exist (as you probably have found out by now :)) > I'm having > trouble porting screen 3.9.9, the multiplexing terminal emulator, to 2.11BSD fifos and sockets are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to 'screen'. Eons ago (when screen was a fairly new program) I made an attempt at porting it and ran into the address space problems - seems that screen wants to use lots of large buffers, has lots of strings (all the help, etc) and so on. > because of them. I'm running Mr. Schultz's 2.11BSD with all patches up to > #442 on Mr. Brandt's p11 emulator version 2.9. FWIW, I have INET in my kernel > but I've ifconfig-ed only lo0. Thanks for the "ownership" label but I think of it more as being a 'steward' and coordinator than anything else p11 2.9? Wow, I've an old patched/hacked 2.5 because I can't seem to find p11's home now - begemot.org doesn't mention anything about "p11". > The fifo test portion of the configure script fails when writing to the fifo. > The write() returns -1 and sets errno == 79, "Inappropriate file type or Right, FIFOs don't exist. One of those things I never could find the need or time for ;) > format". This happens when I run the test as root, as I must in order to use > mknod() to create the fifo. See fifotest.c, below. If 2.11's mknod can create fifos that is _news_ to me. I don't recall seeing (or adding) that capability. > screen can use sockets instead of fifos. That portion of the configure script > fails as well. It fails in that it does not return from the select() on the > socket until the alarm goes off. See socketstest.c, below. Now that is very strange. Unix domain sockets do work (syslogd uses them for example) so I'm at a loss to explain why the test program isn't working. One thing I did do is after running "./a.out&" was do an immediate 'ps'. That should see 2 a.out processes due to the 'fork()' call. I only say one. This tells me that the alarm was started (obviously since alarm(5) is the first thing executed) but the child process raced thru and exited before the parent got to the select() call. With the child exited the select() will block until interrupted by the alarm() call. Steven Schultz sms(a)2bsd.com

23 years, 4 months

[pups] screen 3.9.9 vs. 2.11BSD write() to fifo and/or select() on socket

by David W Talmage

Would someone please advise me about fifos and sockets in 2.11BSD? I'm having trouble porting screen 3.9.9, the multiplexing terminal emulator, to 2.11BSD because of them. I'm running Mr. Schultz's 2.11BSD with all patches up to #442 on Mr. Brandt's p11 emulator version 2.9. FWIW, I have INET in my kernel but I've ifconfig-ed only lo0. screen's configure complains that it finds no usable fifo or socket. The fifo test portion of the configure script fails when writing to the fifo. The write() returns -1 and sets errno == 79, "Inappropriate file type or format". This happens when I run the test as root, as I must in order to use mknod() to create the fifo. See fifotest.c, below. screen can use sockets instead of fifos. That portion of the configure script fails as well. It fails in that it does not return from the select() on the socket until the alarm goes off. See socketstest.c, below. /* fifotest.c */ #include "confdefs.h" #include <sys/errno.h> #include <sys/types.h> #include <sys/stat.h> #include <fcntl.h> /* #ifndef O_NONBLOCK #define O_NONBLOCK O_NDELAY #endif #ifndef S_IFIFO #define S_IFIFO 0010000 #endif */ char *fin = "/tmp/conftest254"; main() { struct stat stb; int f; (void)alarm(5); #ifdef POSIX if (mkfifo(fin, 0777)) { #else if (mknod(fin, S_IFIFO|0777, 0)) { #endif printf("mknod failed\n"); perror("mknod"); exit(1); } if (stat(fin, &stb) || (stb.st_mode & S_IFIFO) != S_IFIFO) { printf("stat failed\n"); exit(1); } close(0); #ifdef __386BSD__ /* * The next test fails under 386BSD, but screen works using fifos. * Fifos in O_RDWR mode are only used for the BROKEN_PIPE case and for * the select() configuration test. */ exit(0); #endif if (open(fin, O_RDONLY | O_NONBLOCK)) { printf("open #1 failed\n"); exit(1); } if (fork() == 0) { printf("f0\n"); close(0); if (open(fin, O_WRONLY | O_NONBLOCK)) { printf("f0 open #2 failed\n"); exit(1); } close(0); if (open(fin, O_WRONLY | O_NONBLOCK)) { printf("f0 open #3 failed\n"); exit(1); } if (write(0, "TEST", 4) == -1) { /* FAILS HERE */ printf("f0 write failed %d\n", errno); perror("write"); exit(1); } exit(0); } printf("f1\n"); f = 1; if (select(1, &f, 0, 0, 0) == -1) { printf("f1 select failed\n"); exit(1); } exit(0); } /* socketstest.c */ #include <sys/types.h> #include <sys/socket.h> #include <sys/un.h> #include <fcntl.h> char *son = "/tmp/conftest254"; main() { int s1, s2, s3, l; struct sockaddr_un a; (void)alarm(5); if ((s1 = socket(AF_UNIX, SOCK_STREAM, 0)) == -1) { perror("socket"); exit(1); } a.sun_family = AF_UNIX; strcpy(a.sun_path, son); (void) unlink(son); if (bind(s1, (struct sockaddr *) &a, strlen(son)+2) == -1) { perror("bind"); exit(1); } if (listen(s1, 2)) { perror("listen"); exit(1); } if (fork() == 0) { if ((s2 = socket(AF_UNIX, SOCK_STREAM, 0)) == -1) { perror("f0 socket"); kill(getppid(), 3); } (void)connect(s2, (struct sockaddr *)&a, strlen(son) + 2); if (write(s2, "HELLO", 5) == -1) { perror("f0 write"); kill(getppid(), 3); } exit(0); } l = sizeof(a); if (close(0) == -1) { perror("close"); } if (accept(s1, &a, &l)) { perror("accept"); exit(1); } l = 1; if (select(1, &l, 0, 0, 0) == -1) { /* DOESN'T RETURN BEFORE SIG_ALARM */ perror("select"); exit(1); } exit(0); } -- David Talmage (talmage(a)cmf.nrl.navy.mil) ITT Industries, Advanced Engineering & Sciences, Advanced Technology Group

23 years, 4 months

4.4BSD-Lite binaries for SPARC and PMAX

by Jochen Kunz

Hi. I plan to do a BSD exhibition at the VCFE. Main focus is 4.3BSD{,-Tahoe,-Reno} on VAXen. But I want to show 4.4BSD-Lite on HP300, SPARC and PMAX too. I have the 4.4BSD-Lite HP300 binaries, but nothing for SPARC and PMAX. Are there any binaries still around? I don't want to struggle with a SPARC and PMAX bootstrap... Ahh, and 4.2BSD-Reno for HP300 is missing too... -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/

23 years, 4 months

Re: FW: FW: Cancer (DO NOT DELETE A WORD OF THIS)

by Rahbynz1＠aol.com

Please read the following: http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blamybruce.htm?terms=make+a+wish

23 years, 4 months

Re: [pups] Duh - how do you format an RX50?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Feb 10, 17:23, Jay Jaeger wrote: > Rats. So it would seem. Forgot about that angle. Useful program -- just > not for floppies. > > Oh well. > > (Hmm. I wonder how "bzzzzt"s taste when you have to eat them with your > hat?) I suspect that they kind of tingle, eh? As far as I remember, yes. I've tried it a few times myself :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 4 months

Re: [pups] Duh - how do you format an RX50?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Feb 8, 8:31, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > RX50's came pre-formatted from DEC. There was never a way to > format them on PDP's or VAX as far as I knew. I do think it is > possible to create them using PUTR and an old PC with a proper > floppy controller and a 1.2M floppy drive configured the right > way. You can format them on a Rainbow, but not an -11 or VAX. > My understanding is they are 80 track, 96 tpi format but spin > at the slow spead of normal 5.25 disks and not the higher speed > used by IBM HD disks. Very similar low-level format to IBM floppies, except that, as Bill says, they're 80-track. The spec is 80-track, 96 tpi, single-side, double density (not HD), 10 sectors per track, 512 bytes/sector. DEC squeeze the extra sector in by shortening some of the gaps; even so the timing is a little tight and the drive speed has to be better-than-averagely accurate. It doesn't matter whether you write them at 300 rpm or 360, so long as the controller adjusts its data rate accordingly (250kbps or 300kbps). Which is what a PC does (uses 250kbps for 300rpm and 300kbps for 360 rpm). However, many HD-capable drives use pin 2 on the interface not only to change the speed but change the write current. Some such drives have jumpers to set the correct values. > As a curious note, I actually had (and may still have in the > attic somewhere) a real shugart 80 track 5.25 drive that would > have been the equivalent of an RX50, so it was not only DEC who > used that format. I had them on a TRS-80 and NewDOS-80 and > DOSPlus had no problems formatting and using the drive. This > was long before my first PDP, but I now wonder if they would > have been able to read and write (and maybe even format!) RX50's. If the controller it was attached to can write MFM (double-density), then it would work. Drives of that type were very common before PCs took over. In fact you can fudge one to look like half of an RX50 (a real RX50 plays funny tricks with the SideSelect and Track00 signals, and some DEC controllers use that to recognise an RX50). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 4 months

Re: [pups] Duh - how do you format an RX50?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Feb 9, 8:37, Jay Jaeger wrote: > Um, bzzzzt. Wrong. I have a floppy labeled: BL-FN7AP-MC CZFNAP0 M-11 > FORMTR RX50 . This is a formatter program for a Micro PDP-11. > > It is a *diagnostic* program (not a user program) for formatting these > beasties. Mine is for the -11, I would imagine that there is one for the > MicroVAX as well. Jay, I just checked on that. It's not an RX50 formatter, it's the XXDP V2 formatting and diagnostics routines for an RXDX3. IIRC it will format RD5x hard drives, and RX33, but not an RX50. Can you get a directory listing of the disk? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 4 months

Re: [pups] Duh - how do you format an RX50?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Feb 9, 12:14, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > On Sat, 9 Feb 2002, Jay Jaeger wrote: > > > Um, bzzzzt. Wrong. I have a floppy labeled: BL-FN7AP-MC CZFNAP0 M-11 > > FORMTR RX50 . This is a formatter program for a Micro PDP-11. > I guess this constitutes the last straw for this myth. Or was it merely > a business decision intended to promote the sale of pre-formatted RX-50 > diskettes. (A practice not uncommon in those days. For example, at one > place where I worked we were responsible for maintaining Terak Micros, a > LSI-11 based system. Any time we reported a floppy problem the first > question was, "Are you using Terak brand diskettes??" Of course, everyone > at that time knew there were only 3 manufacturers of platens and everybody > else just supplied labels!!) > > Other arguments: I have an Andromeda Disk Controller. I know one of the > supported floppy formats is RX50. I'll bet the their formatting program > won't care what drive is there and will happily format diskettes for use > in this and other RX-50's. I expect it would. It's not hard to write a formatter program. I wrote one for my Acorn Archimedes, and an RX50 copier program as well. > I wonder if there is anyone who could be contacted about releasing it?? > Maybe even the VMS version, too. Or even, the source?? Somehow, I doubt > that Compaq still sells many pre-formatted RX50's. I seem to recall that DEC let people copy XXDP between machines without too much excitement. > And while we're on the subject, what about this supposed problem using > anything put certain kinds of diskettes?? I used my 80 track 96tpi drive > all the time with the same diskettes I used in my other SS/SD, DS/SD drives > all the time and never had a problem. Is this perhaps another myth intended > to foster the sale of pre-formatted diskettes?? So long as they're labelled SD or DD and not HD, they have the right coercivity. Some people argue that the fineness of the emulsion may be a factor, but actually you'd have to be incredibly unlucky to have a flaw on a disk that would allow it to be perfect for SD but not DD. Some people have likewise argued that the disk head gap is only about half as wide for 80-track as it is for 40-track, but that's irrelevant: even if the gap is a third of the track pitch, thats around 1/300", the resulting bit density (300 bpi) on the radius of the disk is still much coarser than the bit density around the circumference (about 3300 bpi for single density). I do have a few very old S/S floppies with flaws on the second side, and which therefore aren't good to use as D/S (I value my data!) but I have hundreds more sold as S/S that are work fine as D/S. They just weren't certified that way; they probably just weren't tested, in the days when lots of disks didn't need to be. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 4 months

Re: [pups] Duh - how do you format an RX50?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Feb 9, 8:37, Jay Jaeger wrote: > Um, bzzzzt. Wrong. I have a floppy labeled: BL-FN7AP-MC CZFNAP0 M-11 > FORMTR RX50 . This is a formatter program for a Micro PDP-11. > > It is a *diagnostic* program (not a user program) for formatting these > beasties. Mine is for the -11, I would imagine that there is one for the > MicroVAX as well. > At 11:42 PM 2/8/2002 +0000, Pete Turnbull wrote: > >You can format them on a Rainbow, but not an -11 or VAX. Jay, I'd be very interested to know more about that. I never heard of it before, and I thought I had a pretty comprehensive collection of the PDP-11 (including microPDP-11) diagnostics. Was it standard issue with a particular model? Is there a date on it? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 4 months

[pups] Duh - how do you format an RX50?

by Jonathan Engdahl

I can't believe I haven't figured this out yet. I bought an RX50, and installed it in my PDP-11/53 running 2.11BSD. It's nice having that empty hole in the front of the BA23 plugged, but I hope for even more. The drive seems alive: if I say "cp /dev/ra1a /dev/null", it starts groaning and ticking as if it were reading the floppy. But how do you format the floppies? I tried XXDP/ZRQCH0 (downloaded via VTserver), but it says the floppies are UNFORMATTABLE. That does that mean? -- Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation Principal Research Engineer 1 Allen-Bradley Drive Advanced Technology Mayfield Heights, OH 44124 http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl engdahl(a)safeaccess.com "The things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18

23 years, 5 months

[pups] bootstrapping an RT-11 image via VTserver

by Jonathan Engdahl

I built an 11/23 with 256K RAM, a UDC11 disk controller, one 80 meg MFM hard drive. The hard drive formatter runs under RT-11. The assumption is that you have a working floppy from which you can boot RT-11. I want to devise a method to run the formatter via VTserver. I figured out how to do this for the RQDX3 and XXDP. You can run XXDP under E11, load the utility you want to run, then stop E11 and dump the entire 28K word memory image to a disk file. By hacking a header onto this memory image, you can turn it into a standalone that can be bootstrapped via VTserver, just like the disklabel, mkfs, and restor standlones. This is easy, because XXDP tells you what the restart address is when you load a program. The question: is is possible to restart RT11SJ in the same manner as XXDP? I read some of the manuals, and tried using ODT to restart RT-11 at various points pointed to by the vector table and fixed area. By starting at the trap 4 address I can get it to restart and live. However, this seems to make RT-11 forget that I had done a "GET" of the utility that I wanted to run. I tried restarting at the RMON address, but that crashes. One other experiment I've tried is to GET the utility then "START 1000", but that crashes too. If I GET then just type "START" it lives. What am I doing wrong? One assumption is that the utility only uses memory and TT: system calls -- no disk accesses or swapping. Is it possible to abuse RT-11 in this manner? The utilities I'm trying to run are the UDC11 OCT and UDCT utilities. I want to make it possible to reformat the hard drive on this single drive system without tearing it apart and moving pieces to another system. It is also possible to mess up the NVRAM on the UDC11 so that you cannot boot. If this happens, and you are lucky enough to have another running system (and I am), you can rejumper the CSR of the stuck board and fix it on the other system. Otherwise, you are in big trouble. I wonder if it would be possible to bootstrap a VM0: image into high RAM and boot from it? I realize there are other solutions. The standard answer to questions like this is "get more hardware". The reason for doing this is I want to invent a method that will work for a very minimal pile of hardware. And the whole point of that is to make it possible for people to get a PDP-11 running with minimal investment. -- Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation Principal Research Engineer 1 Allen-Bradley Drive Advanced Technology Mayfield Heights, OH 44124, USA Mayfield Heights Labs engdahl(a)safeaccess.com 440-646-7326 http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/PDP-11.htm

23 years, 5 months

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