TUHS

tuhs@tuhs.org

29 participants
6557 discussions

by Gregg C Levine

Hello from Gregg C Levine I've got a question for those of you, who work more in that field then I.Has anyone successfully gotten, say, NetBSD, or anything along the lines of the 4.4 series to run on a PDP-11? Granted I don't think it would work there, because of the way its hardware was constructed. Or for that matter, say Linux? Since the Simh collection builds easily on Linux, I was thinking that it would be relatively simple to do so. Gregg C Levine drwho8(a)worldnet.att.net "How many floors does this TARDIS of yours have, anyway?"

23 years, 1 month

SCO then Caldera

by Gregg C Levine

Hello from Gregg C Levine The web site links, that contain the SCO location, now point to a site on Caldera's site. I tried e-mailing someone via their contacts page, but so far to no avail. Has anyone on the list had any favorable response, regarding the ability to access their archives of the older versions of UNIX? As always, I am interested in the versions of UNIX that are targeted towards the PDP-11. Seriously though, has anyone actually gotten any feedback from Caldera? Warren if you want to comment, please do so, and I'll even accept a private one. Gregg C Levine drwho8(a)worldnet.att.net "How many floors does this TARDIS of yours have, anyway?"

23 years, 1 month

Re: [TUHS] The Tim Shoppa distribution of V6

by Wolfgang Helbig

Gregg C Levine: >gotten the distribution to boot, using a version of Simh? A text file of >commands to be fed to the Simh program would be a great help. Here is a transcript: PDP-11 simulator V2.9-10 sim> set rl0 rl02 sim> show rl0 RL0, 5242KW, not attached, write enabled, RL02 sim> att rl0 unix_v6.rl02 sim> show rl0 RL0, 5242KW, attached to unix_v6.rl02, write enabled, RL02 sim> boot rl0 !unix unix v6 11/23 mem = 99 KW max = 63 # Good Luck, Wolfgang Gregg C Levine: >gotten the distribution to boot, using a version of Simh? A text file of >commands to be fed to the Simh program would be a great help. Here is a transcript: PDP-11 simulator V2.9-10 sim> set rl0 rl02 sim> show rl0 RL0, 5242KW, not attached, write enabled, RL02 sim> att rl0 unix_v6.rl02 sim> show rl0 RL0, 5242KW, attached to unix_v6.rl02, write enabled, RL02 sim> boot rl0 !unix unix v6 11/23 mem = 99 KW max = 63 # Good Luck, Wolfgang

23 years, 1 month

Re: [TUHS] The Tim Shoppa distribution of V6

by Gregg C Levine

Hello from Gregg C Levine Thank you for your kind advice, Warren. However, I have tried most of the other members of that directory, and yes, it does work. I am curious about this one, because it appears to be decidely different then say an actual distribution of V6. I am also looking at the ones that came from the Research area. Gregg C Levine drwho8(a)worldnet.att.net "How many floors does this TARDIS of yours have, anyway?" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Warren Toomey" <wkt(a)minnie.tuhs.org> To: "Gregg C Levine" <drwho8(a)worldnet.att.net> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 8:09 AM Subject: Re: [TUHS] The Tim Shoppa distribution of V6 > In article by Gregg C Levine: > > On the FTP site, is a a V6 distribution contributed by Tim Shoppa. It is > > created for the PDP-11/23, and there is a good readme.txt file that explains > > the different images, and how they got there. However, has anyone actually > > gotten the distribution to boot, using a version of Simh? A text file of > > commands to be fed to the Simh program would be a great help. > > I have mine, built using the MingW compiler, and this is version 2.9-10. > > Also, if anyone has gotten it to boot on real hardware, that would a be a > > great plus. > > Gregg, I'd first try the other V6 boot images found in: > > http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/PDP-11/Boot_Images > > e.g v6_rl02_unknown.gz > > to make sure that they will boot with the Supnik emulator. > You might also find that the Supnik emulator can't emulate > an 11/23. So I would also try the Ersatz emulator and set > it's CPU to be a 23. > > In other words, try a known bootable image first, then > try Ersatz-11 as an 11/23 on that same bootable image, > and then try Tim Shoppa's image. > > Warren >

23 years, 1 month

The Tim Shoppa distribution of V6

by Gregg C Levine

Hello again from Gregg C Levine On the FTP site, is a a V6 distribution contributed by Tim Shoppa. It is created for the PDP-11/23, and there is a good readme.txt file that explains the different images, and how they got there. However, has anyone actually gotten the distribution to boot, using a version of Simh? A text file of commands to be fed to the Simh program would be a great help. I have mine, built using the MingW compiler, and this is version 2.9-10. Also, if anyone has gotten it to boot on real hardware, that would a be a great plus. Gregg C Levine drwho8(a)worldnet.att.net "How many floors does this TARDIS of yours have, anyway?"

23 years, 1 month

FW: Missing pack from the UnixV6 distros based at the TUH site

by Gregg C Levine

Hello from Gregg C Levine normally with Jedi Knight Computers Forwarded from a posting on news:alt.sys.pdp-11 that I made. Rather then repost the entire message in perpetuity I decided to forward the whole business to this list. As I am still deciding the best way to make use of the whole file tree, without an actual machine living here, I decided to download everything to this one, and then wait. Gregg C Levine drwho8(a)att.net "How many floors does this TARDIS of yours have, anyway?" "Gregg C Levine" <drwho8(a)att.net> wrote in message news:<20020625121449.XOEM20423.mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net@who>... > Hello from Gregg C Levine > Has anyone actually found this to happen? The TUH ftp site, has on it, a > number of actual distributions for UNIX for the PDP-11. One of them was > assembled by Tim Shoppa from a discarded machine. They were > subsequently uploaded to that site. However on of the packs is missing. > It is this one, "xxdp_with_1123.rl02: XXDP+ on RL02 pack, bootable." > That is from the README file associated with the entire directory. > Everything else is there, that one is not. What did happen to it, I wonder. > Gregg C Levine drwho8(a)att.net > >

23 years, 1 month

Re: [pups] Real ZOO web site, welcome! ID<sxsvCplqqlh1wxkv1ruj>

by Warren Toomey

In article by Dave Horsfall: > On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, Randy Merkel wrote: > > Golly, I think we have a spammer ;) > Either he/she/it took the trouble to subscribe (few do), or the list > is wide open; if the latter, expect more crap. Open no more, and I have to approve subscriptions too :-) Warren

23 years, 1 month

RE: [pups] Real ZOO web site, welcome! ID<sxsvCplqqlh1wxkv1ruj>

by Randy Merkel

Golly, I think we have a spammer ;)

23 years, 1 month

[pups] Real ZOO web site, welcome! ID<sxsvCplqqlh1fv1dgid1r}1dx>

by Farmgirl10326

23 years, 2 months

[pups] Real ZOO web site, welcome! ID<sxsvCplqqlh1wxkv1ruj>

by Farmgirl28914

23 years, 2 months

[pups] Real ZOO web site, welcome! ID<sxsvCwxkv1ruj>

by Farmgirl28237

23 years, 2 months

Simh and networking, and any of the available 2.11BSD collections

by Gregg C Levine

Hello from Gregg C Levine I've just joined this list, so bear with me. I am developing applications that will be using the protcols covered in DECnet to access a running PDP-11 system. Actually it is running, but its a SimH program posing as a PDP-11/23. I have downloaded the boot images, especially the 2.11BSD system that is available, and booted it under the SimH simulator. Any suggestions as to how I take this one step further? This is running on both Windows, and Linux. But the DECnet programs were built on Slackware Linux. Gregg C Levine drwho8(a)worldnet.att.net "How many floors does this TARDIS of yours have, anyway?"

23 years, 2 months

[pups] bsd2.11 kernel compile

by joseph lang

I am building a PDP 11 from junked parts and have it mostly working. I'm now installing BSD 2.11 and have run into a problem i could use some help with. When compiling a new kernel (to include network) I get an error ld: too big for type 431 *** exit 2 I assume this error is due to one of the overlays being too large. (this is pointed out in the install docs) How do I figure out which overlay (or base) is the problem? The random module shuffle in the documents only has 10 million combinations and at 30 minutes to compile, well I'm not going to live that long. Is there a more scientific way to arrange the overlays? Am I missing something obvious? joe lang langj(a)bellsouth.net

23 years, 2 months

Re: [pups] bsd2.11 kernel compile

by Steven M. Schultz

Hi! > From: "Chuck Dickman" <chd_1(a)nktelco.net> I see you beat me to the answer ;) > During the compile 'size' outputs a list of the sizes of the > overlays. Look at the output. For mine.... > > > How do I figure out which overlay (or base) is the problem? > > The base must be less than 7 8k pages or 57344(decimal) bytes. > Each overlay must be less than 8k bytes or 8192(decimal). > The network code is not overlayed, so you have 8 pages or the > full 64k. And you use "size" on the .o files to see how much each object file contributes to an overlay. With the exception of a few .o files which *must* be in the base segment (and these are identified in the Makefile) anything can go anywhere it will fit. The overlay switching is extremely efficient so don't worry about the 'affinity' of modules too much. Oh, it should be mentioned that it is not legal to have an empty (0 length) overlay except at the end - i.e. you can't have overlay 3 be 0 bytes if overlay 4 or higher has nonzero size. > To make it work, just get the sizes below the limits. The > optimal arrangement would be placing the code in such that > the overlay changes were minimized. So... move your system > disk drivers into base and change the configuration to > remove any hardware you don't actually have. With the exception of perhaps the tty driver for the specific serial devices present on the system it's not worth trying to pack things "optimally". The overhead of overlays is inhererent in the function prologue and epilogue - the only extra overhead of actually switching overlays is stuffing ~two words or so into the MMU registers. DO NOT remove anything from the actual OV lines in the makefile - just make sure you define/configure devices as not being present in the config file (by saying you have 0 of them). Then the .o files do not take up any space and can be segregated into unused overlays at the end (OV9 or 10 or so). Good Luck! Steven Schultz sms(a)2bsd.com

23 years, 2 months

Re: [TUHS] Re: Porting Unix v6 to i386

by Mike Haertel

>I'll upload it soon. Meanwhile, instead of a DOS C compiler, people >should be able Bruce Evans' bcc or C86 as the compiler, which would >eventually allow the system to compile itself. The source code to the Watcom compilers has also finally been released.

23 years, 2 months

RE: [TUHS] Re: Porting Unix v6 to i386

by Ian King

I think this would be a great addition to the archive! I'm glad I didn't throw out that old 286 motherboard yet. :-) -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt@minnie.tuhs.org] Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 4:35 PM To: Szigeti Szabolcs Cc: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org Subject: Re: [TUHS] Re: Porting Unix v6 to i386 In article by Szigeti Szabolcs: > I don't know if i can now legally give out parts of the original code, > if anyone wants to experiment with it (some parts are pretty ugly, > because i intedned to rewrite it, but never did, and the parts of the > comments are in Hungarian), drop me an email (though i'm now doing my > MBA thesis, so might not answer immediatey). If there is interest, I > can summarize my experiences. Hi, yes it's now legal to distribute your code, as Caldera's license allows for distribution of changes, see http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Caldera-license.pdf I'm the guy who runs the Unix Archive, so I'd be very happy to take a copy of your work and add it to the archive. Cheers, Warren _______________________________________________ TUHS mailing list TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs

23 years, 2 months

Re: Porting Unix v6 to i386

by John Chung

Where can I obtain the program nowadays? It is going to be fun playing it using my x86 machine. :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

23 years, 2 months

Re: Porting Unix v6 to i386

by Szigeti Szabolcs

Hi folks! I've just joined your mailing list, and while looking at the archives, i saw this discussion on porting V6 to Intel. Well, back in '92, in a university scinence students' competition, I ported v6 to intel286 in protected mode. (I got second place, the winner was a 3D animation prog, which is more spectacular, than a # prompt :-) I used Borland C to compile, with some extra mungling the assembly code ( i can't remember why). The hard part was to understand the protected mode, and to write the low level stuff. Other things, like filesystem, etc. compiled with hardly any modification. (Had to change =+ to =+, introduce long insted of int[2], etc.). It has floppy, ide, kbd, parallel, serial and vga drivers. It got to full multiuser operation, but there are bugs and stupid codings certainly. The C compiler, nroff, and some other parts were not ported. (Yes, I used Borland C to compile the programs, and a tool to convert it to a.out :-) I don't know if i can now legally give out parts of the original code, if anyone wants to experiment with it (some parts are pretty ugly, because i intedned to rewrite it, but never did, and the parts of the comments are in Hungarian), drop me an email (though i'm now doing my MBA thesis, so might not answer immediatey). If there is interest, I can summarize my experiences. I've not looked it since several years, so i might not remember every detail, but there are some interesting point, and it was great fun to do. Regards, Szabolcs Szigeti

23 years, 2 months

Ken Beer/NewYork/DBNA/DeuBa is out of the office.

by Ken Beer

I will be out of the office starting 05/25/2002 and will not return until 06/06/2002. I will respond to your message when I return. I will be on vacation. My manager, Venkat Jituri has my contact information. For Equity Research issues, contact Chris Fumai. -- This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden.

23 years, 2 months

Memorial Day in uts

by Bryan Cantrill

I recently discovered your excellent site (was pre-Lions src just recently made available?), which prompted me to send the following mail out to my colleagues in Solaris Kernel Development. (Apologies in advance if you find this annoying, superfluous or disrespectful -- I thought some might find it interesting, if stupid.) If there are other kernel implementors of AT&T-derived UNIX lurking here, it would be enlightening to know what a similar comparison yields on your baby. (It should go without saying that the implementation of each mentioned function has virtually no resemblance to its V3 forebear.) And of course, my burning question: has none of us changed "/* stat codes */" in proc.h?) ------8<--------------------- Subject: Memorial Day in uts To: kernel(a)eng.sun.com All, This Memorial Day, take a moment to remember the source code that has served in our kernel since its inception. To this end, wander by http://minnie.tuhs.org/UnixTree/, and pause for a moment to commemorate these brave functions from the 101st Tapeborne -- all of which have served continuously since August, 1973: bflush() falloc() newproc() sched() bread() getblk() nodev() signal() brelse() getf() nulldev() stty() bwrite() gtty() panic() suser() clock() issig() printf() swtch() closef() mmread() psig() timeout() core() mmwrite() psignal() ufalloc() Their compatriot structure fields include: av_back b_flags p_flag u_cdir av_forw b_forw p_ppid b_back c_arg (*) p_stat b_blkno c_func (*) p_wchan (*) c_func and c_arg are notable for having survived a bonwick scorched-earth rewrite of callouts circa 1997 -- unclear if this makes them eligible for the Purple Heart, or if they should be considered acquited war criminals. As for constants, B_DONE, B_ERROR, FREAD, FWRITE, and SSLEEP have all had the same numerical value since they enlisted in 1973. And a moment of silence is certainly due to this line in proc.h -- a line which has not changed so much as a character since 1973: /* stat codes */ And to the code ripped out in the line of duty, we say only: "We Have Not Forgotten." (Of course, we usually follow that up with "Never Again.") - Bryan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bryan Cantrill, Solaris Kernel Development. bmc(a)eng.sun.com (650) 786-3652

23 years, 2 months

Re: [TUHS] Re: simh vax and 4.3-quasijarus

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

I wrote: > the uVAX unhalt is simply an RFI: on real hardware it knows that > this RFI is an unhalt and lights the RUN LED because the SSC chip compares > instruction fetch addresses against the halt range and detects the unhalt Of course I meant REI. I was mixing VAX and PowerPC in my head again... That's what happens when you try to work on too many architectures at the same time. MS

23 years, 3 months

Re: [TUHS] Re: simh vax and 4.3-quasijarus

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Rico Pajarola <rp(a)servium.ch> wrote: > At this point, I am at the simh prompt (">"). I think simh catches > the halt instruction and goes to the simh prompt when it encounters > one. I have a VAX 4000/300 at home (unfortunately it doesn't run > any of the older unixes), and when it halts, I get the >>> prompt > (differs from simh). The 4000/300 works like any other uVAX (VAX processor implemented in a single IC) in this respect: a halt is a special exception that works like regular VAX macrocode exceptions except that it saves the PC and the PSL in special IPRs rather than on the stack (so that it doesn't depend on a stack), vectors to the hardwired ROM address 20040000 rather than through SCB (so that it doesn't depend on SCB), and MAPEN is cleared (so that it goes to the physical address 20040000 in the ROM rather than whatever that address may be virtually). The CPU board firmware than displays the halt message and the >>> prompt as prescribed by the VAX Architecture (DEC STD 032-0). KA650/655 works exactly the same way. While I haven't played with simh and don't intend to in the near future (due to my general lack of interest in emulators), thus I don't claim to be right here, but from your session logs it appears that simh is not doing the above uVAX halt exception but instead it handles halts like an 11/780, by "physically" stopping all instruction execution. That is fine and dandy, the 11/780 way is certainly cooler, but the problem is it ain't a KA655 any more, and one should not expect the KA655 boot ROM to work right then (and IMAO it has no right to report the KA655 SID code either). > I am pretty sure that I have configured simh correctly, I verified > this by installing netbsd on the same setup, and it boots ok. When I took a cursory look at SIMH/VAX, which consisted only of glancing at its brief documentation, I read that the KA655 ROM image it comes with is not the real one but hacked to work with the poor emulator. This suggests to me that you are able to boot some OSes because Bob has gutted the (quite complicated) KA655 console and boot logic to the bare minimum he had emulated. I wouldn't be surprised if he hacked out the KA655 diagnostic executive almost entirely, so that on "power-up" one goes through an absolutely minimal init sequence without a single halt/unhalt cycle occuring (of which on a real KA655 several occur on every power-up during diagnostics), gets to the >>> prompt, and then when booting, runs VMB, unhalts once (the SIMH probably doesn't even know that it unhalts, as the uVAX unhalt is simply an RFI: on real hardware it knows that this RFI is an unhalt and lights the RUN LED because the SSC chip compares instruction fetch addresses against the halt range and detects the unhalt, but I doubt that SIMH emulates this), and then it all goes well (cross your fingers three times!) never goes through a proper KA655 halt/unhalt again. But if something goes wrong in the boot and VMB's error handler gets invoked, SIMH's very poor man's emulation is not prepared for it. > My only problem seems to be getting the bootblocks right. I have > heard that someone managed to install quasijarus0a on simh, so it > must be me somehow screwing the bootblocks. But the rub is that because of SIMH talking the KA655 talk but not walking the KA655 walk, you can't see what exactly is the problem with your bootblocks: VMB's error messages aren't displayed. MS

23 years, 3 months

Re: [TUHS] simh vax and 4.3-quasijarus

by Rico Pajarola

is there anybody who has successfully installed 4.3-quasijarus on simh, who could tell me how to install the bootblocks (I am not completely sure that I got the disklabel right). The exact incantation of installboot and the output of disklabel would be very helpful. Rico Pajarola

23 years, 3 months

Re: simh vax and 4.3-quasijarus

by Rico Pajarola

From: Gunther Schadow <gunther(a)aurora.regenstrief.org> >>> >>> 2.. >>>-DUA0 >>>HALT instruction, PC: 00000C1A (MOVL (R11),SP) > >this suspiciously looks as if the HALT is from SIMH not from the >VAX it simulates. There are two halt levels in SIMH, one being >the VAX halting and going into VAX console mode, the other being >SIMH halting. Are you absolutely sure that you have a proper >VAX console with SIMH? You should get normal VAX console >behavior, try a few commands and see whether you're on the right >page. At this point, I am at the simh prompt (">"). I think simh catches the halt instruction and goes to the simh prompt when it encounters one. I have a VAX 4000/300 at home (unfortunately it doesn't run any of the older unixes), and when it halts, I get the >>> prompt (differs from simh). >Also, be sure you have it all configured right, that you have >the right devices defined and properly associated with files >on the hosting OS etc. I am pretty sure that I have configured simh correctly, I verified this by installing netbsd on the same setup, and it boots ok. My only problem seems to be getting the bootblocks right. I have heard that someone managed to install quasijarus0a on simh, so it must be me somehow screwing the bootblocks. >> This seems like a simh problem, or, more probably since you can boot That Other >> OS successfully, a problem with your installation of 4.3BSD-Quasijarus0a masked >> by a simh problem. the problem is with the bootloader only, quasijarus0a runs well once booted using the netbsd bootloader. >I would agree. What other system can you boot on SIMH? only netbsd and quasijarus0a (I don't have any vms media). thanks for your help Rico Pajarola

23 years, 3 months

Interview ASAP

by sadams＠resumeship.com

23 years, 3 months

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TUHS