TUHS

tuhs@tuhs.org

47 participants
6502 discussions

Re: [pups] PDP11/73, RD53, RX50... What are my options?

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

Carl Lowenstein: I suppose the easiest break-in tool would be a floppy disk with a bootable RT11 on it. Or, if your goal is just to drain the machine's brain entirely and start over, which is likely the case if you want to put 2.11 on it: dig up the standalone disk diagnostic (is XXDP easily available somewhere these days?) and reformat the disk. Norman Wilson Toronto ON

22 years, 8 months

Re: [pups] PDP11/73, RD53, RX50... What are my options?

by Carl Lowenstein

> From: "Tobias Russell" <toby(a)russellsharpe.com> > To: "PDP Unix Preservation Society" <pups(a)tuhs.org> > Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 08:38:26 +0100 > > Hi, > > I have a micro PDP11/73 equipped with an RD53, RX50 and a Cipher mag tape > drive (untested). The machine currently boots into TSX (although I don't > have usernames/passwords so no shell access). > > I'd like to get BSD2.11 onto the machine. What is going to be the best > route? I assume that my chances of breaking through TSX security (so I can > use kermit) are small, so is vtserver going to be the easiest method? I haven't done it in many years, but after you get the machine to boot into RT11 you can disable the TSX security stuff. Probably a file named "STARTF.COM" is the initial RT11 startup and it contains the command to chain to TSX. I suppose the easiest break-in tool would be a floppy disk with a bootable RT11 on it. carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenst(a)ucsd.edu

22 years, 8 months

RE: [pups] PDP-9?

by Fred N. van Kempen

Unix was _developed_ on the 11/20. The first versions (up to the fourth or fifth edition or so) didn't require an MMU, and, therfore, had no protection whatsoever. Dennis... tell us the "All out?" story.. please.. :) --fred > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Horsfall [mailto:dave@horsfall.org] > Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 3:02 AM > To: PDP Unix Preservation Society > Subject: Re: [pups] PDP-9? > > > On Sun, 18 Aug 2002, Lars Buitinck wrote: > > > we all know that UNIX first ran on the PDP-7 and then on > the PDP-11/20, > > Just got back from overseas, but this doesn't seem to have > been addressed: > AFAIK, Unix never ran on the 11/20 (no MM unit); did you mean > a DEC-20? > > -- > Dave Horsfall DTM VK2KFU dave(a)esi.com.au Ph: +61 2 > 9906-3377 Fx: 9906-3468 > (Unix Guru) Pacific ESI, Unit 22, 8 Campbell St, Artarmon, > NSW 2065, Australia > > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups >

22 years, 8 months

[pups] Unix and PDP11/20 (was PDP-9?)

by John Holden

Early editions of Unix did run on a PDP11/20, written in assembly language. There was a memory mapping option KS-11 that sat between the processor and Unibus that mapped chunks of memory. It was a DEC special, and only about a dozen were built. See http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/odd.html A hardware story'

22 years, 8 months

Re: [pups] PDP-9?

by Johnny Billquist

On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Dave Horsfall wrote: > On Sun, 18 Aug 2002, Lars Buitinck wrote: > > > we all know that UNIX first ran on the PDP-7 and then on the PDP-11/20, > > Just got back from overseas, but this doesn't seem to have been addressed: > AFAIK, Unix never ran on the 11/20 (no MM unit); did you mean a DEC-20? Um? Who said Unix used an MMU in the beginning? No, Unix never ran on a PDP-10. It was PDP-7 and then the PDP-11, and I believe it was a PDP-11/20 at the beginning. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

22 years, 8 months

Mine's older than yours

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

Larry McVoy: In response to old hardware... My first machine was an Okidata CPM machine which had a color (!) monitor and a built in printer. If someone had one of these, I'd like it just for old time's sake... Well, my first computer was a Cardiac. I'm glad to say that I managed to grab one from Classic Computing a few years ago, but I don't think they have any left. If anyone knows of a source, I'd be interested to hear about it; every now and then I mention Cardiac to someone who hasn't heard of it, and they'd like to know where to get one. I still think Cardiac should be a required tool in freshman programming courses. Norman Wilson Toronto ON

22 years, 8 months

Re: TUHS digest, Vol 1 #73 - 1 msg

by Larry McVoy

In response to old hardware... My first machine was an Okidata CPM machine which had a color (!) monitor and a built in printer. If someone had one of these, I'd like it just for old time's sake... -- --- Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitmover.com/lm

22 years, 8 months

computer inventory for hardcore geeks (fwd)

by Warren Toomey

All, I just received this e-mail. I have no idea who Wendy is, but perhaps the things she has stashed away may be of some interest to you. Warren ----- Forwarded message from Wendy Murphy ----- >From jendywo(a)yahoo.com Sat Aug 31 08:22:00 2002 Message-ID: <20020830222155.14119.qmail(a)web14907.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 15:21:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Wendy Murphy <jendywo(a)yahoo.com> Subject: computer inventory for hardcore geeks To: clintw(a)colorado.cirrus.com, xds_sigma7(a)hotmail.com, eric(a)brouhaha.com, iking(a)microsoft.com, mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca, emu(a)ecubics.com, dworkin(a)village.org, russell283(a)attbi.com Cc: rob(a)witte-family.net, jjdellea(a)chisp.net, wkt(a)tuhs.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests= version=2.01 Content-Length: 3539 In my quest to get the house clean so I can get out, I decided to inventory the computer stuff. It's like inventory by the technologically blind! I got just so far before I got frustrated and gave up. Pat and Rob took the sillyscope (with the intention of selling it, I believe) and the RT, I think it was called (to keep for my ex-). Dworkin took the PDP-11/73. I asked him for $84 because that's what I need to keep Xcel from shutting off my electricity, but he chose to give me a check for $500, which I have not cashed and won't until he's had the stuff long enough to ascertain that it works and tell me so, or for two weeks, whichever comes first. That leaves: (Note: sizes are eyeballed by someone with a lousy eye) IN THE GARAGE: various cables, keyboards, mouses, plugs, cabinets, broken TVs, VCRs, and a Laser disk player, and miscellaneous hardware a box about 1'x1.5'x2' with a 3.5" and a 5.25" drive, and seven flat buttons with colored lights and symbols, like turtles, rabbits, and lightning bolts. an Alpha Micro 1000E Raster Tech monitor D-SCAN, an 8"x8"x1" board with 17 female cable plugs in three rows labeled "In" "Out" and "CH", six columns labeled "R G B H V C" a 3'x3'x2' dec RXO2 and RLO2 exposure timer & power supply unit Sharp electric typewriter, and another electric typewriter up too high for me to read anything off it. a couple of Apple II+s (Dad wants to keep one as he has some information on a 5.25" floppy formatted for that computer) SCM152 dry copier microfiche reader ? Kennedy model 9300 tape drive AlphaWrite documentation, and several 3-ring binders of documentation I just didn't feel like thumbing through for particulars right now (but can later, if you like) and the infamous 78 2'x2' floor tiles. (Dworkin said he's seen them advertised for $9 apiece, new. They're not quite in new condition, but that gives a ballpark for what they ought to be worth) I didn't check IN THE LOFT, because it's too high for me to reach or see. IN THE FURNACE ROOM: I saw an Amdex 300A video monitor NEC multisync 2A monitor Raster Tech monitor ADDS (?) monitor and at least one other monitor with no words I could identify An okidata printer an ALPS ALQ200 printer an IBM selectric II typewriter a Minolta fax 261 and a "stack" -- y'know, a computer, with two 3.5" and one 5.25" floppy drives and buttons that said "turbo" and "reset", but no brand name I could make out. IN THE CAVE: there remains a Scientific Atlanta receiver IBM monitor IBM 3.5" floppy drive HP LaserJet printer Smith-Corona electric typewriter Data south DS 150 printer Microscience International Corporation thing that says it has 7 heads and 855 cylinders, but won't tell me what it uses them for digital h3350; I don't know what it is, but it's the size of a deck of cards a couple of EMLock security door thingies (magnetic) various boards (green things with solder and little batteries and stuff on them) a couple of Alpha Micro video cassettes That's what I had the energy to see. Can you enlighten me as to what these things are and what ought to be done with them? I can't even get at the other stuff in the furnace room/garage until some of it gets moved. ~ Wendy the technologically incorrigible ----- End of forwarded message from Wendy Murphy -----

22 years, 8 months

Re: TUHS digest, Vol 1 #71 - 2 msgs

by Johnny Billquist

Sokolov wrote: > Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)update.uu.se> wrote: > > > I'm trying to figure out a way of getting the MSCP driver from Ultrix > > available for porting to NetBSD. > > I don't support NetBSD, but Ultrix' MSCP/SCA code is available to everyone. I know you don't support it. :-) > > The problem is that it's (c) by Digital, now HP. > > It is a problem only if you choose to honor copyright laws. Since that is your > personal voluntary choice, it is your problem. Yes, and it's *that* problem I'm looking for a solution to. > > Could I be lucky enough that Ultrix actually have been released? > > And I'm talking Ultrix-32 here, not Ultrix-11. > > The International Free Computing Task Force has freed the Ultrix-32 V2.00 and > V4.20 sources. They can be found on our FTP site in Freed as in "legally freed", or just "made available". > ivan.Harhan.ORG:/pub/UNIX/thirdparty/Ultrix-32 harhan.org don't exist from where my dns is looking... :-/ Another machine I have access to managed to resolve ivan.harhan.org to 208.221.139.1, but there is no response at that address. However, if it is just the sources, and not some legal notes available, then I don't need to go there. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

22 years, 8 months

Re: [TUHS] Ultrix...

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)update.uu.se> wrote: > I'm trying to figure out a way of getting the MSCP driver from Ultrix > available for porting to NetBSD. I don't support NetBSD, but Ultrix' MSCP/SCA code is available to everyone. > The problem is that it's (c) by Digital, now HP. It is a problem only if you choose to honor copyright laws. Since that is your personal voluntary choice, it is your problem. > Could I be lucky enough that Ultrix actually have been released? > And I'm talking Ultrix-32 here, not Ultrix-11. The International Free Computing Task Force has freed the Ultrix-32 V2.00 and V4.20 sources. They can be found on our FTP site in ivan.Harhan.ORG:/pub/UNIX/thirdparty/Ultrix-32 -- Michael Sokolov 786 E MISSION AVE APT F Programletarian Freedom Fighter ESCONDIDO CA 92025-2154 USA International Free Computing Task Force Phone: +1-760-480-4575 msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA) Let the Source be with you Programletarians of the world, unite!

22 years, 8 months

Ultrix...

by Johnny Billquist

Hi. I have a small question for you. I'm trying to figure out a way of getting the MSCP driver from Ultrix available for porting to NetBSD. The problem is that it's (c) by Digital, now HP. Does anyone know of any persons who were involved in the old days when code was exchanged between BSD and Ultrix? Those people might be a good starting point for getting code today as well I suspect. Does anyone else around here have any good clues on this? Could I be lucky enough that Ultrix actually have been released? And I'm talking Ultrix-32 here, not Ultrix-11. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

22 years, 8 months

[pups] Re: heavy to ship

by Warren Toomey

In article by Joe Dellea: > What does one do in such a situation? Hi Joe, I've passed the e-mail on to some mailing lists, and hopefully you will get some eager mail about it soon! Good luck, Warren

22 years, 8 months

[pups] heavy to ship (fwd)

by Warren Toomey

----- Forwarded message from Joe Dellea ----- Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 02:35:12 -0600 From: Joe Dellea <jjdellea(a)chisp.net> To: wkt(a)tuhs.org Subject: heavy to ship Proffessor Toomey: I have an interesting problem for you.... A friend of mine here in Denver, (Colorado,US) is in posession of a PDP 11/73 and litterally a ton of peripheral hardware- it was left in her house by her ex-husband who more than likely dumpster-dived it while working for the phone company. The Ex is a talented Computer guy, but a bit of an idiot in his personal life.... Friend wants to find a new home for this machine. Friend is erratic. Also fairly pissed off. Could probably use some money, but mainly wants the thing to go away, rather than calculate actual dollar value or whatever.... Would be happy if it went to a good home. What does one do in such a situation? In my case, I found your web-page near the top of a Google search..... Regards, Joe Dellea jjdellea(a)chisp.net ----- End of forwarded message from Joe Dellea -----

22 years, 8 months

RE: [pups] It all works!!

by Fred N. van Kempen

Ian King wrote: > > I suggest you now find a multi-port beer card, insert that into a free > > slot, add /dev/beer to the kernel, and abuse it lots... :) > > > > (rumor is, that 2.9bsd has much more space available for /dev/beer > > buffers, though, so if 2.11 doesn't allow enough of it, just take the > > plunge and downgrade to 2.9... ;-) > > Should he implement uubp? Well, that's kinda store-and-forward. A bit dated, innit? Why not go the modern way and go straight for the splattering-type mbdp? For those who dunno: Multicast Beer Distribution Protocol. One catch... given the kind of stuff we want distributed, we'd better not have any (memory and/or session) leaks... --f

22 years, 8 months

[pups] It all works!!

by Kevin Murrell

Needed to tell someone, so I thought I would tell all of you! My PDP11/73 now has BSD2.11 installed and working. I added a DEQNA card, rebuilt the kernel and now ping, telnet, ftp et al is working. The joy of telneting into my '11 from a Windoze machine is beyond words! Many thanks to Warren, Fred and Joe for all the help and advice. Regards Kevin

22 years, 8 months

RE: [pups] It all works!!

by Fred N. van Kempen

I suggest you now find a multi-port beer card, insert that into a free slot, add /dev/beer to the kernel, and abuse it lots... :) (rumor is, that 2.9bsd has much more space available for /dev/beer buffers, though, so if 2.11 doesn't allow enough of it, just take the plunge and downgrade to 2.9... ;-) --f > -----Original Message----- > From: Kevin Murrell [mailto:kevin@ps8.co.uk] > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 3:04 PM > To: Pups Mailing List > Subject: [pups] It all works!! > > > Needed to tell someone, so I thought I would tell all of you! > > My PDP11/73 now has BSD2.11 installed and working. I added a > DEQNA card, > rebuilt the kernel and now ping, telnet, ftp et al is working. > > The joy of telneting into my '11 from a Windoze machine is > beyond words! > > Many thanks to Warren, Fred and Joe for all the help and advice. > > Regards > > > Kevin > > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups >

22 years, 9 months

RE: Porting Unix v6 to i386

by russ

It seems as though there was considerable interest in Porting Unix v6 to i386 some months ago. This is a project that appeals to me also. I was wondering if anyone has made any headway in the project and would like to share their experience.

22 years, 9 months

[pups] some RD54 drives free to takers in .nl

by Wilko Bulte

Hi, I have some RD54 drives (and maybe a RD53 or so) that I want to part with. Free for a PDP user in the Netherlands who is willing to pick them up in Arnhem (I won't ship them) Wilko -- | / o / /_ _ wilko(a)FreeBSD.org |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte Arnhem, the Netherlands

22 years, 9 months

[pups] re: PDP-9

by Dennis Ritchie

Bilquist said (quoting Buitinck): > > we all know that UNIX first ran on the PDP-7 and then on the PDP-11/20, > > but does anyone know anything about PDP-9 UNIX? it\'s mentioned in \"The > > UNIX Time-Sharing System\" in the V7 manual: > > > > \"The earliest [version of UNIX] (circa 1969-70) ran on the Digital > > Equipment Corporation PDP-7 and -9 computers.\" > Hmmm, I cannot exactly answer that, but the PDP-7 and PDP-9 were both > 18-bit machines, and somewhat compatible, I believe. > The whole line is (I believe): > PDP-4 -> PDP-7 -> PDP-9 -> PDP-15 > So I guess that if you had it running on a PDP-7, you could probably > almost take the code unmodified and run it on the PDP-9. > The PDP-15 have a different bus (Unibus?) I believe, and thus, > peripherials are different from the predecessors. > This obviosuly affects the OS. :-) The 7, 9, 15 were very compatible. I think the -15 had some scheme for using an index register, which the earlier ones didn't have, but it was otherwise pretty much identical in IS architecture. There was very little rewriting to try Unix out on the -9 and -15; perhaps just some tweaks in the disk device commands. I don't think the system actually ran on either for more than a few hours. Ken was just playing around. The -15 may have had an electrically different bus, but I'm reasonably sure it was not a Unibus. All of them used IOT instructions, not memory-mapped IO registers. Both of the machines we tried were being used by other groups and we couldn't squat on them as with the PDP-7. I recall that the -15's main job was controlling a step-and-repeat camera that exposed LSI masks. Dennis

22 years, 9 months

Re: [pups] re: PDP-9

by Carl Lowenstein

> To: pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org > From: Dennis Ritchie <dmr(a)plan9.bell-labs.com> > Subject: [pups] re: PDP-9 > Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 23:55:55 -0400 > > Bilquist said (quoting Buitinck): > > > > we all know that UNIX first ran on the PDP-7 and then on the PDP-11/20, > > > but does anyone know anything about PDP-9 UNIX? it\'s mentioned in \"The > > > UNIX Time-Sharing System\" in the V7 manual: > > > > > > \"The earliest [version of UNIX] (circa 1969-70) ran on the Digital > > > Equipment Corporation PDP-7 and -9 computers.\" > > > Hmmm, I cannot exactly answer that, but the PDP-7 and PDP-9 were both > > 18-bit machines, and somewhat compatible, I believe. > > The whole line is (I believe): > > > PDP-4 -> PDP-7 -> PDP-9 -> PDP-15 > > > So I guess that if you had it running on a PDP-7, you could probably > > almost take the code unmodified and run it on the PDP-9. > > The PDP-15 have a different bus (Unibus?) I believe, and thus, > > peripherials are different from the predecessors. > > This obviosuly affects the OS. :-) > > The 7, 9, 15 were very compatible. I think the -15 > had some scheme for using an index register, which > the earlier ones didn't have, but it was otherwise > pretty much identical in IS architecture. > > There was very little rewriting to try Unix out > on the -9 and -15; perhaps just some tweaks in > the disk device commands. I don't think the > system actually ran on either for more than a few > hours. Ken was just playing around. > > The -15 may have had an electrically different > bus, but I'm reasonably sure it was not a Unibus. > All of them used IOT instructions, not memory-mapped > IO registers. > > Dennis What I remember, as the last gasp of PDP-15 production was a dual-processor setup, linked with a PDP-11. The intent was to take advantage of the lower-cost Unibus peripherals. I remember the sales literature, but do not recall ever seeing one. carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenst(a)ucsd.edu

22 years, 9 months

[pups] Test message

by Tom Alsberg

This is a test message, please ignore it. -- Tom -- Tom Alsberg - certified insane, complete illiterate. e-mail: <alsbergt(a)softhome.net> Homepage: http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/~alsbergt/ * An idea is not responsible for the people who believe in it.

22 years, 9 months

[pups] Re: PDP-9

by Roger Ivie

Dennis Ritchie said: > The 7, 9, 15 were very compatible. I think the -15 > had some scheme for using an index register, which > the earlier ones didn't have, but it was otherwise > pretty much identical in IS architecture. According to Gordon Bell's "Computer Engineering", the primary differences from the -4 to the -7 were switching from 6-bit to ASCII I/O devices and the addition of a trap mechanism. The -9 primarily changed the memory system, going to 2-1/2D core; it was also microcoded. The -15 went to TTL ICs and added index registers and memory relocation. He says "The PDP-9 instruction compatibility was acheived with three minor exceptions about which no complaints were received", although I don't see an explanation of the exceptions. http://research.microsoft.com/users/GBell/Computer_Engineering/ -- Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

22 years, 9 months

[pups] Dilog DQ686, anyone?

by Fred N. van Kempen

Hey gang, Does anyone have an online manual or other info for the DQ686 ESDI disk controller from Dilog? I'm trying to fix a VAX 4, which as that beastie... Thanks, Fred

22 years, 9 months

Re: [pups] Dilog DQ686, anyone?

by Carl Lowenstein

> From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> > To: <pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org> > Subject: [pups] Dilog DQ686, anyone? > > Hey gang, > > Does anyone have an online manual or other info for the DQ686 > ESDI disk controller from Dilog? I'm trying to fix a VAX 4, > which as that beastie... There is a manual for the DQ696, which is essentially the same thing except it controls 2 drives not 4. It was last seen by me at < http://www.miim.com/documents/dilog/dq696.zip >. It is zip-compressed MSWord. carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenst(a)ucsd.edu

22 years, 9 months

[pups] PDP-9?

by Lars Buitinck

we all know that UNIX first ran on the PDP-7 and then on the PDP-11/20, but does anyone know anything about PDP-9 UNIX? it\'s mentioned in \"The UNIX Time-Sharing System\" in the V7 manual: \"The earliest [version of UNIX] (circa 1969-70) ran on the Digital Equipment Corporation PDP-7 and -9 computers.\" -- If I travelled to the end of the rainbow As Dame Fortune did intend Murphy would be there to tell me The pot is at the other end Lars

22 years, 9 months

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TUHS