TUHS

tuhs@tuhs.org

6 participants
6532 discussions

by Carl Lowenstein

> Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:35:32 +1300 > From: Wesley Parish <wes.parish(a)paradise.net.nz> > Subject: Re: [TUHS] UNIX/32V > To: tuhs(a)tuhs.org > > On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:20, Norman Wilson wrote: > > Wesley Parish: > > > > I was wondering as well, are there any VAX assembler manuals online, in > > an easily-copyable form? > > > > I've encountered html ones, but that isn't quite what I mean. > > > > What do you mean, then? In what way isn't HTML suitable? > > I don't mean to be obstreperous; I just think it would be > > easier to help if you made it clearer what you need and > > what you don't. > > I'm a bit more used to using PDF for that purpose, since PDF data > resides in a single file - ergo, easier downloads. Download all the html. (use wget) Make a list of the files in the order that they should appear in the PDF file. Use htmldoc < www.easysw.com/htmldoc/ > to make PDF or PostScript. Htmldoc is interesting software -- it works well and is available in source form with the caveat "here it is, take it and don't bother us unless you want to buy a support contract". carl

21 years, 8 months

UNIX/32V

by nao

Hi, I am interested in the history of VAX unices. On the modern extreme, I obtained a pretty VAXstation 4000/VLC and it runs NetBSD now. I am more than happy to play the original rogue from 4.2BSD. On the ancient extreme, since I dare not to tame a beast like PDP-11/780, I am reading various papers and codes. Now I am searching for the original article of UNIX/32V: T. B. London & J. F. Reiser, ``A UNIX Operating System for the DEC VAX-11/780 Computer,'' Technical Report TM-78-1353-4, Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill, NJ(July 1978), but it seems quite hard to find it. Is there anyone who can tell me how can I obtain a copy? Regards, -nao

21 years, 8 months

Re: Peter H. Salus comments (+32V)

by Dennis Ritchie

Peter Salus is quoted as saying > ... > When the VAX was ``pre-announced,'' the Unix architects at Bell Labs had become > disillusioned with DEC, they didn't like VMS and they thought that the VAX had > an ``offensively fat instruction set.'' Anyway, Steve Johnson and Dennis > Ritchie were working on their Unix port to the Interdata. (Which Steve referred > to as the ``Intersnail.'') We were far from disillusioned, either with the company or the design; see my contemporary transcription of Ossanna's notes of the preannouncement presentation. http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/vax.html But it is true that our own attention was focussed on the Interdata work at the time; not only was it underway, but for stretching portability it looked useful to work on an architecture that was Not "culturally compatible" with the PDP-11. > So DEC approached Charlie Roberts at AT&T in Holmdel, NJ. Tom London, John > Reiser and Ken Swanson were interested; they got a VAX in early 1978. In three > months they ported Version 7 to the VAX. Roberts told me: ``We got the machine > in January, they had it running in April, and by August it really worked.'' >> and indeed left the Vax port to Reiser and London. (VMS didn't figure into the equation.) A later poster, nao, asked about London and Reiser's memo about their work on what became 32V (TM-78-1353-4). This seems to be in the company archives, but not in scanned form. I've ordered a paper copy, but the mechanism sometimes is a black hole. Dennis

21 years, 8 months

Re: [TUHS] UNIX/32V

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

Wesley Parish: I was wondering as well, are there any VAX assembler manuals online, in an easily-copyable form? I've encountered html ones, but that isn't quite what I mean. What do you mean, then? In what way isn't HTML suitable? I don't mean to be obstreperous; I just think it would be easier to help if you made it clearer what you need and what you don't. To split hairs further, what do you mean by `VAX assembler manual'? There's a paper named Assember Reference Manual that came in Berkeley's Volume 2C for 3BSD, written by Reiser (Bell Labs) and Henry (Berkeley); it is a compact description of syntax and pseudo-ops, but doesn't list or explain the VAX instruction set itself. The best reference I know for the VAX instruction set is the official DEC manual called VAX Architecture Reference Manual (EK-VAXAR-RM), but at more than 500 pages it is not easily-copyable even in the way we thought of copying when it was published, i.e. that depicted on the cover of the latter-day Lions book. Norman Wilson Toronto ON

21 years, 8 months

Peter H. Salus comments on introduction of VAX

by Kenneth Stailey

Admittedly the page is a rant from 1997 but it does have a few tidbits. Page is here: http://www.mids.org/pay/mn/704/bits.html Excerpt about VAX: << And it's over 20 years since Gordon Bell came up with his ideas for a DEC family with a 32-bit architecture. That was implemented by Bill Demmer, Larry Portner, and Bill Strecker as DEC's VAX line: Virtual Address Extension. Bell's notion allowed DEC to produce a line of computers that continues today, and certainly occupied a number of desktops over 15 years ago. When the VAX was ``pre-announced,'' the Unix architects at Bell Labs had become disillusioned with DEC, they didn't like VMS and they thought that the VAX had an ``offensively fat instruction set.'' Anyway, Steve Johnson and Dennis Ritchie were working on their Unix port to the Interdata. (Which Steve referred to as the ``Intersnail.'') So DEC approached Charlie Roberts at AT&T in Holmdel, NJ. Tom London, John Reiser and Ken Swanson were interested; they got a VAX in early 1978. In three months they ported Version 7 to the VAX. Roberts told me: ``We got the machine in January, they had it running in April, and by August it really worked.'' >> __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com

21 years, 8 months

Epiphany?

by Wesley Parish

I downloaded 32V after thinking and thinking and thinking about it, and of course untarred and defeathered it, then had a look at some of the source code. I got a buzz out of reading it! (I usually don't give myself time to read source code, so I suppose I get out of the habit of thinking of it as a pleasure. And University tends to make one think of it as a chore ;^) Just thought I'd pass that on - and thanks to everybody - AT&T, UOC@Berkeley, SCO, Caldera and PUPS/TUHS for allowing me my unexpected pleasures! Much appreciated! Wesley Parish -- Mau e ki, "He aha te mea nui?" You ask, "What is the most important thing?" Maku e ki, "He tangata, he tangata, he tangata." I reply, "It is people, it is people, it is people."

21 years, 9 months

Re: [TUHS] Re: 4.3 BSD version in the Unix Archive

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Jochen Kunz <jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> wrote: > The thing with NetBSD is that you get a modern *ix like OS complete with > ssh etc. and features like mmap(2) that 4.3BSD-Tahoe doesn't have. Just a nitpick, but ssh is available for 4.3BSD-Quasijarus, look for it in: ifctfvax.Harhan.ORG:/pub/unix/apps/ But yes, NetBSD is a "modern *ix", not UNIX, which is why I can't stand it. My love for UNIX as opposed to "modern *ix"'s is what made me create and run 4.3BSD-Quasijarus. Since I use it as my sole and only OS for my real world computing needs, not a hobby, I have everything for it that one needs in everyday life, including ssh, httpd, Russian support, PostScript support, PPP support, etc. But it's still pure 4.3BSD as all of the latter are just user applications. MS

21 years, 9 months

RE: [TUHS] Re: 4.3 BSD version in the Unix Archive

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Markus Weber <jmbw(a)nather.com> wrote: > Stand/copy from tms(0,1) to ra(0,1) fails with a 'disk unlabeled' diagnostic > on a cold disk image. It should print the unlabeled diagnostic, but then proceed rather than fail. I just double-checked the standalone driver source, and it does provide a default label for RA82, as long as the MSCP controller actually returns RA82 as the MSCP disk ID. Does it give you an error message about disk type (some hex humber) not supported? If so, SIMH's MSCP emulation must be lacking in quality. > If only ra0 is > configured for simh, it takes the kernel a long time to decide that ra1, > ra2, and ra3 are offline. Having said that, I do not know how long this > takes on actual hardware. On real HW it takes no noticeable time. > the kernel (and > not simh) subsequently segfaults (trap type 8, code = c0000200, pc = > 8003fe16). Well, obviously this doesn't happen on real HW, since on real HW it works (I'm typing this message on a MicroVAX 3+ running 4.3BSD-Quasijarus). But I will grant the possibility that the kernel is not w/o fault either in that perhaps it's going south (dereferencing a garbage pointer and crashing) when the MSCP controller (in this case SIMH's poor emulation) is doing something it doesn't expect. If this is so, it should be fixed, since even w/o emulators (which I refuse to support on principle) real HW can be broken and return garbage on reg reads, and the kernel must handle it gracefully. I'll look into it. MS

21 years, 9 months

RE: [TUHS] Re: 4.3 BSD version in the Unix Archive

by Gregg C Levine

Hello (again) from Gregg C Levine The RPM file provided didn't build correctly. Remember I did say that I use Slackware. I don't have a running instance of Red Hat here. However, I was able to build a copy of SIMH straight from the current source code. One thing does get to me, though. This creation moves a lot slower on SIMH/VAX, then NetBSD, which worked well enough. I'm guessing that this is indeed a populated pack you have here, but do you have any idea as to why it's practically moving slower then a tortoise? This is running on a Pentium 100. As to your question, yes they are working on it, moving through the 2.4.2x series of kernels. It isn't pretty, but it is working. If you want to join the list to offer complements, or comments, or just lurk, go to their website, and tell the list-manager that I sent you. He'll give you a good seat. ------------------- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net ------------------------------------------------------------ "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi ) (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda ) > -----Original Message----- > From: Markus Weber [mailto:jmbw@nather.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 3:40 PM > To: Gregg C Levine > Subject: RE: [TUHS] Re: 4.3 BSD version in the Unix Archive > > Hi Gregg! > > The src.rpm was built on Redhat 7.3, but you should be able to rebuild in on > a more recent version of Redhat. There is, however, no reason not to do a > straight recompile of the simh sources. I simply prefer to package > everything and thought I may save somebody else the bother. > > My site runs Postnuke, which uses cookies internally. Unless you want to > create an account and login, I doubt that it matters one way or the other if > you reject the cookies or not. > > I would guess that the primary objective of simh/vax is to run OpenVMS, > which it does just fine for me. If you wish, I can dig up a URL for a > beautiful installation-on-simh write-up. You can really follow the standard > instructions to the letter once simh is set up properly. > > It looks like simh can run most, if not all, BSD's. I'm happy with > Quasijaro - it has a certain sentimental value to observe 4.3BSD in its > native habitat. Quasijaro has issues, but they can be worked around. NetBSD > 1.5.2 works with a very minor install-time glitch. OpenBSD is the one I > still haven't figured out; there's an odd fatal error when mounting the root > filesystem. Or rather, there's something very odd about the in-core > disklabel. Come to think of it, there is a common theme of problems relating > to disk labels and first-time access of disks. By and large, it's not clear > (to me) in any of these cases if the emulation is broken or simply exposes > flaws in the OS. > > So the Linux/Vax project is still alive? > > Cheers > -Markus > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gregg C Levine [mailto:hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net] > Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 2:02 PM > To: 'Markus Weber'; tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org > Subject: RE: [TUHS] Re: 4.3 BSD version in the Unix Archive > > > Hello (again) from Gregg C Levine > Just for the sake of argument, Markus, what was your build environment > for your SRC RPM version of SIMH? Personally I use Slackware Linux > here, and the source code files straight from Bob's site. Also, that > site kept wanting to set a cookie on my machine here. Is that a normal > process? > > Incidentally, the folks building Linux for the VAX, also use SIMH/VAX > for testing, and sometimes even they have problems. So the comment > regarding this product, and the VAX simulation is valid, just needs to > be further tested. > > I, myself, have used it, to boot either VAX VMS, (Didnt workout how > to install it on blank disk though.). or a relative of what we > discuss, as well. > ------------------- > Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net > ------------------------------------------------------------ > "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi > "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi ) > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda ) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tuhs-bounces(a)minnie.tuhs.org > [mailto:tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org] On > > Behalf Of Markus Weber > > Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 9:05 AM > > To: Joseph F. Young; tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org > > Subject: RE: [TUHS] Re: 4.3 BSD version in the Unix Archive > > > > Thanks to your help it works. Please see > > > > > http://www.itsecuritygeek.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=ar > ticl > > e& > > sid=22 > > > > for an annotated installation transcript. You'll find a > pre-installed disk > > image in the site's Download section. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Joseph F. Young [mailto:jy99@swbell.net] > > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 1:50 PM > > To: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org > > Cc: jy99(a)swbell.net > > Subject: [TUHS] Re: 4.3 BSD version in the Unix Archive > > > > > > From my experience, you need to have a recent release of SIMH in > order to > > run 4.3BSD. A few months ago, I managed to build "working" > Quasijarus and > > Reno disk images (Quasijarus appears to work fine for me, but Reno > is as > > buggy as I remember it being on real hardware). I had to use Ultrix > and > > Netbsd to do the bootstrap/install; I could not get the tape boot to > work > > at all. > > > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com) > > Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 - Release Date: 9/18/2003 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TUHS mailing list > > TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org > > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs > > > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com) > Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 - Release Date: 9/18/2003 > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com) > Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 - Release Date: 9/18/2003

21 years, 9 months

Re: 4.3 BSD version in the Unix Archive

by Joseph F. Young

From my experience, you need to have a recent release of SIMH in order to run 4.3BSD. A few months ago, I managed to build "working" Quasijarus and Reno disk images (Quasijarus appears to work fine for me, but Reno is as buggy as I remember it being on real hardware). I had to use Ultrix and Netbsd to do the bootstrap/install; I could not get the tape boot to work at all. Here's my SIMH ini file for Quasijarus: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- set cpu 32m set cpu conhalt set tto 7b set tti 7b at rom ka655.bin at nvr nvr.bin set rq0 ra82 at rq0 bsd43q_ra0.dsk set rq1 ra82 at rq1 /dev/null set rq2 ra82 at rq2 /dev/null set rq3 ra82 at rq3 /dev/null set tq0 locked at tq0 BSD43Q_TAPE.tap set dz 7b at -m dz0 4501 at xq eth0 set lpt dis set ts dis set rl dis boot cpu -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here's an example boot log for Quasijarus under SIMH: >>>boot dua0 (BOOT/R5:0 DUA0 2.. -DUA0 1..0.. loading boot Boot : /vmunix 327204+103384+130352 start 0x23a8 4.3 BSD Quasijarus UNIX #0: Sat Oct 2 22:15:38 CDT 1999 msokolov@luthien:/usr/src/sys/GENERIC real mem = 33521664 SYSPTSIZE limits number of buffers to 80 avail mem = 31697920 using 80 buffers containing 655360 bytes of memory MicroVAX 3000, ucode rev 6 tmscp0 at uba0 csr 174500 vec 774, ipl 15 tms0 at tmscp0 slave 0 tms1 at tmscp0 slave 1 uda0 at uba0 csr 172150 vec 770, ipl 15 uda0: version 3 model 3 uda0: DMA burst size set to 4 ra0 at uda0 slave 0: RA82, size = 1216665 sectors ra1 at uda0 slave 1: no disk label: ra82, size = 1216665 sectors ra2 at uda0 slave 2: no disk label: ra82, size = 1216665 sectors ra3 at uda0 slave 3: no disk label: ra82, size = 1216665 sectors dz0 at uba0 csr 160100 vec 300, ipl 15 dz1 at uba0 csr 160110 vec 310, ipl 15 dz2 at uba0 csr 160120 vec 320, ipl 15 dz3 at uba0 csr 160130 vec 330, ipl 15 qe0 at uba0 csr 174440 vec 764, ipl 15 qe0: delqa, hardware address 08:00:2b:aa:bb:cc Changing root device to ra0a WARNING: clock gained 91 days -- CHECK AND RESET THE DATE! Automatic reboot in progress... Mon Sep 29 08:38:03 CDT 2003 /dev/ra0a: 669 files, 5242 used, 25429 free (37 frags, 3174 blocks, 0.1% fragmentation) /dev/rra0g: 12267 files, 71408 used, 376714 free (1634 frags, 46885 blocks, 0.4% fragmentation) Mon Sep 29 08:43:51 CDT 2003 checking quotas: done. starting system logger preserving editor files clearing /tmp standard daemons: update cron accounting. starting network daemons: routed named inetd printer. Sep 29 08:44:28 simh named[66]: /etc/named.boot: No such file or directory starting local daemons: sendmail. Mon Sep 29 08:44:52 CDT 2003 4.3 BSD UNIX (simh.localdomain) (console) login: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cheers, ---- Joseph Young jy99(a)swbell.net

21 years, 9 months

RE: [TUHS] Re: 4.3 BSD version in the Unix Archive

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Markus Weber <jmbw(a)nather.com> wrote: > Clearly, stand boots. I'm hopeful that 4.3-Quasijarus0a will indeed run on > simh. Just be warned that I have heard from others that the kernel won't boot on SIMH due to sucky emulation. > For some follow-up questions... Standalone format supports hp and up disks, > but simh only emulates RL and RQ controllers - which means that the Ultrix > utilities to label a cold disk must be ported or recreated to the simh host > platform. Of course, it may well be that applying a hex editor to the disk > image will suffice. Arghh, why don't people just f-ing get it! Standalone format is what is known as low-level format in the PeeCee world (magnetic level stuff, certainly not needed on an emulator), and it has absolutely nothing to do with disk labeling. 4.3BSD-Quasijarus0[a] does not have standalone disklabel, but RA82 is known to the compiled-in tables and thus will work unlabeled. Also Ultrix' disk labels are not useful for 4.3BSD-Tahoe/Quasijarus, since the labels are stored in a different place in a different format. (Berkeley and DEC developed pack labels independently. BSD stores them in the boot block, Ultrix stores them in the root fs superblock, which has the disadvantage of requiring you to create some dummy root fs before you can write a label, even if you want a root fs of different size.) > Am I correct that Quasijarus supports RA82 disks (using the ra type) and the > TK50 tape (as a tms)? Yes. MS

21 years, 9 months

Any unix for MicroPDP-11?

by Matthew E Hoskins

Greetings all, and forgive me if this was answered prevously, but i didnt see it when i grepped the archive.. Are there any *nix versions in the archive that will run on a MicroPDP11 model 630QZ-AX? Currently it is running RSX-11 /w what looks like a seagate MFM/RLL type HDD. It has only dual floppy for removeable. But i might be able to get my hands on a TK50/70 and qbus adapter for it. Thanks. -Matt -- # Matthew E. Hoskins ############################################# # Information Systems Analyst /| / / / ~~/~~ # # University Information Systems / | / / / / # # New Jersey Institute of Technology / | / / / / / # # University Heights, Newark, NJ 07102 / |/ /___/ / / # # Ph: 973-596-5202 # Beep: pagematt(a)cobol.njit.edu # # Rm: 5400 GITC Building # Email: matt(a)njit.edu # ################################################################### "Any technology sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from a perl script" "Anyone who considers arithmetical methods of producing random digits is, of course, in a state of sin -- John von Neumann"

21 years, 9 months

Re: [TUHS] Re: 4.3 BSD version in the Unix Archive

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Warren Toomey <wkt(a)tuhs.org> wrote: > The 4.3BSD-Quasijarus dists were compressed with a compression format > that's not compatible with either gzip nor old compress(1). Michael > Sokolov should be able to send in some notes on the tools required. Yes, for political reasons I needed to make the 4.3BSD-Quasijarus compressor a version of compress, not gzip (can't have any GNU), but I wanted to have the higher compression ratio of deflation, so I created a new version of compress that supports deflation in addition to the original LZW algorith. You can find the new compress in components/compress.tar either on my FTP site or in Warren's archive in the 4BSD area. > > Is there a set of 4.3BSD-Tahoe Vax distribution files that's complete? > > Not that I know of. "4.3BSD-Tahoe Vax distribution" is an oxymoron. Berkeley released the Tahoe tape with Tahoe binaries, no VAX binaries. I was the one who compiled the Tahoe source for the VAX, and the result was 4.3BSD-Quasijarus0. OTOH, you may be referring to the fact that the Tahoe distribution in the archive is broken. Yes, it is. Unfortunately there was an unrecoverable tape read error. > > Finally, do you know of any 4.3BSD version that will install and run on > > simh? Quasijarus and Tahoe of the Unix Archive are broken for me and Reno > > doesn't boot stand. Admittedly, I haven't tried the vanilla version yet. > > Not that I know of. I'll cc this to the TUHS list and see if any other > people know the answer. This has come up time and again. SIMH's emulation of VAX is too poor. VAX is not an easy architecture to emulate. MS

21 years, 9 months

Re: 4.3 BSD version in the Unix Archive

by Warren Toomey

On Wed, Sep 24, 2003 at 11:12:54AM -0500, Markus Weber wrote: > Can you decompress the files in either of the two 4.3BSD-Quasijarus dists > (in /4BSD/Distributions)? If so, how? The oldest versions that I have date > back to a CD somebody cut me in mid-2000, and I can't decompress these files > no matter what. The 4.3BSD-Quasijarus dists were compressed with a compression format that's not compatible with either gzip nor old compress(1). Michael Sokolov should be able to send in some notes on the tools required. > Is there a set of 4.3BSD-Tahoe Vax distribution files that's complete? Not that I know of. > Finally, do you know of any 4.3BSD version that will install and run on > simh? Quasijarus and Tahoe of the Unix Archive are broken for me and Reno > doesn't boot stand. Admittedly, I haven't tried the vanilla version yet. Not that I know of. I'll cc this to the TUHS list and see if any other people know the answer. > If I manage to get a version of 4.3 working on simh, I'll offer a turnkey > system for download on my site. Yes, I'd appreciate that :-) Thanks, Warren

21 years, 9 months

ctcompare 1.2 is up

by Warren Toomey

Hi all, It's probably bad form to release a new version of a program 24 hours after the last version, but version 1.2 of my C comparison tool is now available at http://minnie.tuhs.org/Programs/Ctcompare. The speed has been vastly improved by using the Rabin-Karp string comparison algorithm, and thanks go to Roger Willcocks who pointed me at the algorithm. There are no other bug fixes, and I shouldn't bring out a new version for quite a while now. So if you have access to any restricted C source trees, maybe you can send me the ctf file of the tree so I can do some comparisons! Cheers, Warren

21 years, 9 months

Comparing UNIX/Linux Code

by Maciek Bieszczad

An interesting attempt at finding shared code: http://www.rickbradley.com/chron/20030619/ -- Maciek (macbiesz(a)optonline.net)

21 years, 9 months

Re: [TUHS] Lexical comparator

by Warren Toomey

On Thu, Sep 18, 2003 at 01:41:10PM +0300, Aharon Robbins wrote: > > If anybody has Unix kernel trees which they cannot divulge due to licensing > > restrictions, I'd appreciate you creating tokenised files of the kernel > > source and e-mailing them to me. > > Hmmm. Just between us chickens, given tokenized versions of an entire tree, > how hard would it be to recreate a functional kernel? Pretty damn hard. All identifiers, (variable names) are reduced to a single token. Actually, that's not true. The meaning of the names is removed an replaced with numeric identifiers that are unique to each file. Here's a tokenised portion of 32V (bio.c): 56: struct id10 * 57: id13 ( id14 , id15 ) 58: id16 id14 ; 59: id17 id15 ; 60: { 61: register struct id10 * id18 ; 62: 63: id18 = id19 ( id14 , id15 ) ; 64: if ( id18 ->id20 & id21 ) { 65: #ifdef id1 66: id9 . id5 ++ ; 67: #endif 68: return( id18 ) ; 69: } 70: id18 ->id20 |= id22 ; 71: id18 ->id23 = id24 ; 72: ( * id25 [ id26 ( id14 ) ] . id27 ) ( id18 ) ; 73: #ifdef id1 74: id9 . id3 ++ ; 75: #endif 76: id28 ( id18 ) ; 77: return( id18 ) ; 78: } Now go and check the actual source and work out which function it is! [ see http://minnie.tuhs.org/UnixTree/32VKern/usr/src/sys/sys/bio.c.html ] Warren

21 years, 9 months

Re: [TUHS] Fwd: Helping in the battle against SCO

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

Andru Luvisi: If SCO holds up a piece of common code and the good guys have no response, that is bad. If SCO holds up a piece of common code and the good guys already know that it actually came from BSD, and are prepared to demonstrate such, that is good. If SCO holds up a piece of common code and the good guys already know that it was contributed to Linux by SCO/Caldera themselves, and are prepared to demonstrate such, that is good. If there is infringing code, it should be taken out of Linux as quickly as possible. ====== I'll grant all those points, but if the idea is to defang SCO, the effort still seems fruitless to me. System V and Linux both contain appallingly large volumes of code. (On a list that discusses the UNIX of the 1970s, perhaps I can say that without creating undue ruckus.) The odds are that quite a lot of the code is similar. Should we really spend months and months tracking it all down and trying to declare where each line came from, or should we wait until SCO declares a specific set of cases that matter (as they must do sooner or later or abandon the court battle)? When one is faced with an enormous set of possible computations, of which only a handful are likely to be needed in the end, lazy evaluation is usually the better choice. It does seem sensible to me for the Linux community to do its best to hunt down any infringing code, and to try to assess whether there's a serious problem lurking that nobody had noticed. But that ought to be a matter of basic ethics, having nothing to do with SCO. I doubt it is likely to make much difference to the court battle anyway: SCO's claim is that the infringing code is there now, that it was put there deliberately at IBM's instigation to do harm to them, and that the harm already exists; removing it now won't change any of that. I think it's a good idea to remove any infringements that are there now, even if they are trivial ones; but let's not fool ourselves that it will pull SCO's fangs to do so. Norman Wilson Toronto ON

21 years, 9 months

VMS for MicroVAX 2000

by Natalia Portillo

Hello I know this can be some offtopic as VMS is not a UNIX system, but, I recently adquired a MicroVAX 2000 for a museum and I'm guessing if I can get a tarball of the original VMS installation tape or someone could send me a tape. Thanks in advance. Natalia Portillo Canary Islands Computer Museum

21 years, 9 months

Lexical comparator, was Re: the battle against SCO

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

Warren Toomey: For me it's not just a matter of defeating SCO, it's also one of sheer indignation in the face of Saganesque FUD ("billions and billions of lines of code"). I seriously want to know if there's even the tiniest possibility that SCO is right, or if they're are just Smoking Crack Often. That's fair enough. Just remember that no matter how much you scan the code, you can't beat the FUD campaign by doing so. SCO can just claim their tools are better than yours, and continue to stonewall about showing their evidence. And as I said last week, both legally and morally the onus is on SCO to provide proof of their claims: the infringement, that it was done maliciously, that it has caused them harm. The `evidence' they have shown so far makes me doubt very much that they can prove all three of those things, or possibly any but the least- significant case of the first. As I also said last week, I don't mean to discourage anyone from doing code comparisons. Intellectually it's an interesting exercise. Ethically it's the right thing to do if the Linux community thinks it's possible that licensed code got into the system. Even legally it might make some difference to have shown due diligence, though not in the matter presently before the courts. If it makes someone feel less frustrated, that's fine too. But scanning the Linux code won't provide hard proof of anything, any more than you can claim to prove there are no leaks in your roof solely by inspection. If proof is possible, it will work the other way. Norman Wilson Toronto ON

21 years, 9 months

Re: [TUHS] Lexical comparator, was Re: the battle against SCO

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

Robert Brockway: Hi. Don't want to nitpick here but many of us think it is important to get this point straight whenever we are talking about GPLed code. The kernel is licenced (as I'm sure you know). What we are of course concerned about is: a) Code which is licenced in a manner incompatible with the GPL b) Code that the copyright holder did not authorise going into the kernel. I'm sure you were just speaking in shorthand but it is subtle point that many misinterpret. Many people outside the OSS community think that "all that free code" is in the public domain, which it is most definately not. ==== Quite right. I wasn't speaking in shorthand, I was speaking in clumsy; what I should have written is `possible that code restricted by the System V license got into the system.' Licenses come in all flavours, and whether there is any license at all is not the issue here. I certainly didn't mean, for example, to imply that all licenses are evil, reptilian kitten- eaters from another planet. Norman Wilson Toronto ON

21 years, 9 months

UNICOS

by Maciek Bieszczad

I am in contact with someone that is looking for UNICOS system sources from (1984 to April 1986). Does anyone have or know where to locate any such sources? -- Maciek (macbiesz(a)optonline.net)

21 years, 9 months

Re: Fwd: Helping in the battle against SCO

by Roger Willcocks

Here's yet another version of the malloc routines: k_malloc/k_mfree in http://www.tu-chemnitz.de/informatik/osg/lehre/vorl_BS.SRC/malloc.c I wonder where these routines were 'borrowed' from? The code appears to be intermediate between 32V and SVR4, containing assertions and using mapstart/mapsize, but without spl calls. -- Roger

21 years, 9 months

[pups] IPv6 on 2.11BSD

by David Evans

Har har, I know. Anybody even looked into doing a port? -- David Evans (NeXTMail/MIME OK) dfevans(a)bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Ph.D. Candidate, Computer/Synth Junkie http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/ University of Waterloo "Default is the value selected by the composer Ontario, Canada overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual

21 years, 10 months

Re: [TUHS] Fwd: Helping in the battle against SCO

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

I don't see how any diffing we do will make any difference `in the battle against SCO.' If we find cases in which Linux has incorporated System V licensed code, that will certainly be meaningful; but if, as seems likely, we don't, SCO can just say their tools are better than hours. And besides, it is SCO who have brought the complaint, so both legally and ethically it's up to SCO to prove the case, not up to others to disprove it, no matter what fearsome roars SCO emit. Comparisons done by others are certainly interesting, and I don't want to discourage anyone from doing them; just don't expect it to make any difference to the lawyers. (Not that I'm one, of course.) Norman Wilson Toronto ON

21 years, 10 months

Jump to page:

2025

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

2005

2004

2003

2002

2001

2000

1999

1998

1997

1996

1995

1994

1993

1992

1991

1990

TUHS