TUHS

tuhs@tuhs.org

47 participants
6503 discussions

by Kenneth Stailey

http://www.didiermorandi.com/vms/vaxvms2itanium_200311en.pdf mildly amusing __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree

21 years, 6 months

Re: pdp11/34 can't boot. help us !

by John Holden

The machine sounds a scary mix of Unibus and Qbus peripherals (a real Heath Robinson!). Given you cannot deposit/examine memory and get correct results, the bootstrap will halt because it runs some diagnostics (including memory) before it attempts to boot a device. The first step it is to strip down the system to the first system unit. You can still leave all the cards in, just remove the unibus jumper from slot 9 and move the terminator M9302 into slot 9 (a-b). For good measure, I'd also remove the M8217 from slot 9 (c-f) and put in a bus grant continuity card if you have one. Since it's (now) the last slot, it shouldn't matter if the grant card is missing. Then try your memory deposit/examine test. I'm assuming here that you have tested all the power supply voltages as it appear that you have a fairly loaded system. Have a look at the following site for more hints:- http://www.psych.usyd.edu.au/pdp-11/hints.html

21 years, 6 months

While on the subject of 32V ...

by Pat Villani

Folks, I recently copied down the 32V source, and compiled the kernel with gcc. Much to my surprise, most of it compiled. I then split out the machine dependent versus the machine independent files (loose classification :-), and compiled again. Naturally, in both cases, you could not actually build a kernel because there are vax specific .s files, but the individual C files compiled. Not a bad start. As a result, I've been giving serious consideration to porting it to Intel IA32 platforms. It's much simpler than the unix I worked on until last year (Tru64, aka OSF/1 and Digital UNIX), and the 32V kernel is only a little bigger than the original FreeDOS kernel I wrote. The Caldera license is pretty much a BSD license, which could be considered an open source license. This means I should be able to work on it without worrying about IP, although I'd still need management approval. Should I undertake such an project, would there be enough interest to justify the effort? Pat -- You can't build a reputation on what you are going to do. -- Henry Ford

21 years, 6 months

Re: 32V update (was Re: [TUHS] While on the subject of 32V ...)

by macbiesz＠optonline.net

You should make some kind of status log, showing what parts of the system have been ported, and what still needs to be done. That would make it easier for others to help out. Maciek ----- Original Message ----- From: Wesley Parish <wes.parish(a)paradise.net.nz> Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2003 4:56 am Subject: Re: 32V update (was Re: [TUHS] While on the subject of 32V ...) > I'm trying to work out whether or not gcc takes a look at its own > header files > before or after it looks at the ones I've set it to look at - I got > some > weird warnings and error messages before I expanded the -I to > > gcc -I./../../include -I./../../include/sys -I./../sys/h > > Still need the *.s files in the libraries dealt with, and as > before, I know > nothing of the VAX assembler syntax and mostly x86 in Intel syntax. > > If anyone wants to join in with this, I would be very, very grateful. > > Wesley Parish > > P.S. I've got to redo the utilities - I think that once I get the > libraries > sorted out, the utilities will be easy meat.

21 years, 6 months

pray for us ! pdp11/34 operation! :)

by asbesto

pray for us !!! in these days we will try to change the broken chip on the pdp11/34 RL01 controller board. some details will follow - we will put online as much information and images as possibile. -- [asbesto : freaknet medialab : radio#cybernet : GPG key on keyservers] [ MAIL ATTACH, SPAM, HTML, WORD, and msgs larger than 95K > /dev/null ] [http://www.freaknet.org/asbesto IW9HGS http://kyuzz.org/radiocybernet]

21 years, 6 months

Re: 32V update (was Re: [TUHS] While on the subject of 32V ...)

by Wesley Parish

Just an update - I'm now compiling ~/[...]/32V/usr/src/libc/gen to *.o using gcc set with -I../../include . Most of them compile smoothly. I hope I'll have most of the library compiled to *.o soon, enough for using as the basis for compiling the utilities to 32I. Wesley Parish -- Clinesterton Beademung - in all of love. Mau e ki, "He aha te mea nui?" You ask, "What is the most important thing?" Maku e ki, "He tangata, he tangata, he tangata." I reply, "It is people, it is people, it is people."

21 years, 6 months

[pups] emulex UC01

by Naoki Hamada

Hi, A few months ago I bought an EMULEX databook titled "DISK AND TAPE PRODUCTS HANDBOOK". I found a quite interesting product named UC01. It is a SCSI controller which can emulate two RLV11/RLV12's with 22bit addressing. It means that you can mimic eight RL02 drives with a crisp ZIP drive! Thus you can enjoy various versions of unix (modified v7, 2.9BSD, 2.11BSD a bit harsh? and maybe even modified v6) without huge cabinets. UC01 seems quite hard to find and expensive if available. EZSystems(http://www.ezsystems.com/) has stocks, $345 each. I want to know if it actually works well with my PDP-11/53 before I try it. Has anyone experience with UC01? Naoki Hamada nao(a)tom-yam.or.jp

21 years, 6 months

32V kernel update

by Pat Villani

Uploaded new kernel archive. Reworked Makefile. I got it to compile with a stub file. Still much work rewriting machine dependent code. Latest is 32v-031102-01.tar.gz. Available via anonymous ftp at sever.opensourcedepot.com. Pat

21 years, 6 months

Re: 32V update (was Re: [TUHS] While on the subject of 32V ...)

by Robertdkeys＠aol.com

Or, for something really wierd...., how about porting 32V to the modern VAXen, such as the scsi 3000 or 4000 class machines? x86 is nice, and good to do because of its generic ubiquity, but somehow it ought to roll again on something, VAX, too.....(:+}}... just for usable posterity. How much of a chore would it be to port from say an Ultrix box? The tool chain should be basically intact. Mebbie it is time to dust off our old VAX 3000 M38 crates. There I go thinking out loud...., again..... Bob Keys

21 years, 6 months

Re: [TUHS] Unix > 7?

by Robertdkeys＠aol.com

There exists in one of our listmembers archives the last running V10 UNIX for VAX on I believe MVII or MVIII class machines. The availability of it remains a bit in limbo. But, it would be nice to have that available in the public archives, if I could make the suggestion. I would be of the opinion, also, that it would be nice to have them in the publicly available arena for educational, hobby, or whatever the current nomenclature is, use. Perhaps if that person is listening, the subject might be approachable to whomever controls the legalese mumbo-jumbo. It is a long-shot, but ya never know if ya don't ask.....(:+}}... Bob Keys

21 years, 6 months

Unix > 7?

by Mirian Crzig Lennox

Apologies if this is a FAQ, but is there any prayer of getting 8th, 9th and 10th edition Unix released under some sort of public or educational licence? Now that there are emulators freely available which are capable of running 32V-derived Unix, there would be some practical educational value in having them available; and I for one would be utterly thrilled to be able to see them "in action" (as well as see more of the evolutionary steps from research Unix on to Plan 9). cheers, --Mirian

21 years, 6 months

Re: 32V

by Dennis Ritchie

The HTML rendition of the paper is much improved now, thanks to Naoki Hamada. Incidentally, I also associate the term "deadstart" with CDC/Cray. Maybe London or Reiser had previous association with that world. On the other hand, in really early Unix, the "cold boot" paper tape recreated everything on the disk. Really cold, just like the "operating system conversion" section of L&R, or for that matter the corresponding section of the one by me and Johnson about the Interdata work. Dennis

21 years, 6 months

Deadstart (was Re: 32V)

by John Holden

Markus Weber wrote:- > Didn't CDC's NOS use the term "deadstart"? Yes, and some of their machines has 'deadstart panels'. A set of 12 x 12 switches that were the bootstrap for peripherial processor zero (12 bit data/instruction). I think the CDC6600 had 12X12, but some of the latter machines (Cybers) had up to 20x12

21 years, 6 months

NCR Tower650, UNIX Sys. V Rel.3 on a 68020 :)

by asbesto

Hi, in our free lab in catania we have one of these box, you can see it here: http://www.freaknet.org/history/freakalbum/freak_hardware/tn/dcp02097.jpg.h… we only have this computer, and no manuals, no tapes, no floppy disks, nothing. We made a raw "dd" backup of the whole hard disk, that have some bad tracks :( so, we are wondering if someone here can help us finding information about this machine: PDF manuals, info, tape images, operating system disks, or whatever useful for our computer museum :))) p.s a look at http://www.freaknet.org/history/freakalbum/freak_hardware/ to have a little, poor idea about other machines we have, including the PDP11/34 with the broken chip problem in the RL01 controller board :((( p.s.2. yes, we have printed schematics of PDP11/34. we are organizing to scan all the schemes, maybe this can be useful for someone. Sorry if i'm not so present in this list, but i read it every day, it's a fantastic list. thanks to all :) -- [asbesto : freaknet medialab : radio#cybernet : GPG key on keyservers] [ MAIL ATTACH, SPAM, HTML, WORD, and msgs larger than 95K > /dev/null ] [http://www.freaknet.org/asbesto IW9HGS http://kyuzz.org/radiocybernet]

21 years, 6 months

AW: [pups] 2.11BSD ftp to moe.2bsd.com

by Mario Premke

Thanks, those are the patch kits, Mario. You grab a system, then patch it up to 'current' with those patches. I expected something like that - any idea where to grab a system? Every now and then, a kind sould releases a fully 'current' system. Are there any old <fully 'current' systems> around? Has anybody tried to run it on an emulator? mario > -----Original Message----- > From: Mario Premke [mailto:premke@ess-wowi.de] > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 1:43 PM > To: pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org > Subject: [pups] 2.11BSD ftp to moe.2bsd.com > > > Hello list, > there is the 2.11 BSD on moe.2bsd.com. I wonder why there aren't any > filenames but only numbers instead. Is there somewhere a > tar-archive of > 2.11BSD on the net? > Thanks > Mario > > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups >

21 years, 6 months

Re: 32V

by Dennis Ritchie

The London/Reiser internal memo about experiences in porting Unix to the VAX emerged from the company archives, and I scanned and OCRed it: it's underneath http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/portpapers.html As the page cautions, the HTML is missing some stuff, but the PS and PDF are reasonably good. I also have the big pre-OCR PDF image scan if anyone wants to check details. Dennis

21 years, 6 months

RE: [TUHS] While on the subject of 32V ...

by David Presotto

Arnold forwraded this to me: > Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:35:40 -0400 > From: Pat Villani <Pat.Villani(a)hp.com> > To: tuhs(a)tuhs.org > Subject: [TUHS] While on the subject of 32V ... > > Folks, > > I recently copied down the 32V source, and compiled the kernel with gcc. Much > to my surprise, most of it compiled. I then split out the machine dependent > versus the machine independent files (loose classification :-), and compiled > again. Naturally, in both cases, you could not actually build a kernel because > there are vax specific .s files, but the individual C files compiled. Not a bad > start. > > As a result, I've been giving serious consideration to porting it to Intel IA32 > platforms. It's much simpler than the unix I worked on until last year (Tru64, > aka OSF/1 and Digital UNIX), and the 32V kernel is only a little bigger than the > original FreeDOS kernel I wrote. The Caldera license is pretty much a BSD > license, which could be considered an open source license. This means I should > be able to work on it without worrying about IP, although I'd still need > management approval. > > Should I undertake such an project, would there be enough interest to justify > the effort? > > Pat > > -- > You can't build a reputation on what you are going to do. -- Henry Ford He noted the following and asked if I'ld like it posted to this list: I see from subsequent mail that a project has been started. The members of this list seem to share some common characteristics: 1. Some spare time for working with code. 2. A willingness to hack on code. 3. A desire to work with cleaner, smaller simpler versions of Unix, instead of the modern, er, *full featured* open source systems (Linux, *BSD). I'd like to suggest that perhaps members of this list should check out Plan 9 From Bell Labs (http://plan9.bell-labs.com) The Plan 9 developers have recently posted a request for help, for people to tackle some projects that need tackling. Why should people here look at it? 1. It's from Bell Labs: quality design and concepts guaranteed. (:-) 2. It's an opportunity to move into the future, instead of hiding out in the past. 3. Plan 9 deserves good help. 4. People who appreciate early Unix and current Plan 9 will be welcomed warmly. So, check it out, We sure would like more people using our system and our license is OSI approved so it least has one stamp as open source. It clearly is not as simple 32V or our 10th edition unix. However, it comes close and is way simpler than either Linux or the current BSDs.

21 years, 6 months

[pups] 2.11BSD ftp to moe.2bsd.com

by Mario Premke

Hello list, there is the 2.11 BSD on moe.2bsd.com. I wonder why there aren't any filenames but only numbers instead. Is there somewhere a tar-archive of 2.11BSD on the net? Thanks Mario

21 years, 6 months

[pups] 1972-era unix src found

by Fred N. van Kempen

Hiyas, I just unearthed a unix source tree that seems to be dated 1972. is that of interest, or do we already have it? Cheers, Fred -- InterNetworking, Network Security and Communications Consultants MicroWalt Corporation (Netherlands), Postbus 8, 1400 AA BUSSUM Phone +31 (35) 7503090 FAX +31 (35) 7503091 http://WWW.MicroWalt.NL/ Dit bericht en eventuele bijlagen is uitsluitend bestemd voor de geadresseerde. Openbaarmaking, vermenigvuldiging, verspreiding aan derden is niet toegestaan. Er wordt geen verantwoordelijkheid genomen voor de juiste en volledige overbrenging van de inhoud van dit bericht, noch voor de tijdige ontvangst ervan.

21 years, 7 months

Re: [TUHS] While on the subject of 32V ...

by Steve Nickolas

>From: Pat Villani <Pat.Villani(a)hp.com> >Sent: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:35:40 -0400 >To: tuhs(a)tuhs.org >Subject: [TUHS] While on the subject of 32V ... >Folks, >I recently copied down the 32V source, and compiled the kernel with >gcc. Much to my surprise, most of it compiled. I then split out the >machine dependent versus the machine independent files (loose >classification :-), and compiled again. Naturally, in both cases, you >could not actually build a kernel because there are vax specific .s >files, but the individual C files compiled. Not a bad start. Whew. Goes to show something about GCC backward compatibility. >As a result, I've been giving serious consideration to porting it to >Intel IA32 platforms. It's much simpler than the unix I worked on >until last year (Tru64, aka OSF/1 and Digital UNIX), and the 32V >kernel is only a little bigger than the original FreeDOS kernel I >wrote. The Caldera license is pretty much a BSD license, which could >be considered an open source license. This means I should be able to >work on it without worrying about IP, although I'd still need >management approval. It's basically the old (with advertising) BSD license, AFAICT. >Should I undertake such an project, would there be enough interest to >justify the effort? I for one would be interested... :) >Pat -uso.

21 years, 7 months

While on the subject of 32V ...

by Phil Garcia

> <snip> > I've been giving serious consideration to porting it to > Intel IA32 platforms. It's much simpler than the unix I worked on > until last year (Tru64, aka OSF/1 and Digital UNIX), and the 32V > kernel is only a little bigger than the original FreeDOS kernel I > wrote. The Caldera license is pretty much a BSD license, which > could be considered an open source license. This means I should be > able to work on it without worrying about IP, although I'd still > need management approval. Should I undertake such an project, would > there be enough interest to justify the effort? I'd certainly be intrigued enough to run it.

21 years, 7 months

Re: [TUHS] UNIX/32V

by Carl Lowenstein

> Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:35:32 +1300 > From: Wesley Parish <wes.parish(a)paradise.net.nz> > Subject: Re: [TUHS] UNIX/32V > To: tuhs(a)tuhs.org > > On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:20, Norman Wilson wrote: > > Wesley Parish: > > > > I was wondering as well, are there any VAX assembler manuals online, in > > an easily-copyable form? > > > > I've encountered html ones, but that isn't quite what I mean. > > > > What do you mean, then? In what way isn't HTML suitable? > > I don't mean to be obstreperous; I just think it would be > > easier to help if you made it clearer what you need and > > what you don't. > > I'm a bit more used to using PDF for that purpose, since PDF data > resides in a single file - ergo, easier downloads. Download all the html. (use wget) Make a list of the files in the order that they should appear in the PDF file. Use htmldoc < www.easysw.com/htmldoc/ > to make PDF or PostScript. Htmldoc is interesting software -- it works well and is available in source form with the caveat "here it is, take it and don't bother us unless you want to buy a support contract". carl

21 years, 7 months

UNIX/32V

by nao

Hi, I am interested in the history of VAX unices. On the modern extreme, I obtained a pretty VAXstation 4000/VLC and it runs NetBSD now. I am more than happy to play the original rogue from 4.2BSD. On the ancient extreme, since I dare not to tame a beast like PDP-11/780, I am reading various papers and codes. Now I am searching for the original article of UNIX/32V: T. B. London & J. F. Reiser, ``A UNIX Operating System for the DEC VAX-11/780 Computer,'' Technical Report TM-78-1353-4, Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill, NJ(July 1978), but it seems quite hard to find it. Is there anyone who can tell me how can I obtain a copy? Regards, -nao

21 years, 7 months

Re: Peter H. Salus comments (+32V)

by Dennis Ritchie

Peter Salus is quoted as saying > ... > When the VAX was ``pre-announced,'' the Unix architects at Bell Labs had become > disillusioned with DEC, they didn't like VMS and they thought that the VAX had > an ``offensively fat instruction set.'' Anyway, Steve Johnson and Dennis > Ritchie were working on their Unix port to the Interdata. (Which Steve referred > to as the ``Intersnail.'') We were far from disillusioned, either with the company or the design; see my contemporary transcription of Ossanna's notes of the preannouncement presentation. http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/vax.html But it is true that our own attention was focussed on the Interdata work at the time; not only was it underway, but for stretching portability it looked useful to work on an architecture that was Not "culturally compatible" with the PDP-11. > So DEC approached Charlie Roberts at AT&T in Holmdel, NJ. Tom London, John > Reiser and Ken Swanson were interested; they got a VAX in early 1978. In three > months they ported Version 7 to the VAX. Roberts told me: ``We got the machine > in January, they had it running in April, and by August it really worked.'' >> and indeed left the Vax port to Reiser and London. (VMS didn't figure into the equation.) A later poster, nao, asked about London and Reiser's memo about their work on what became 32V (TM-78-1353-4). This seems to be in the company archives, but not in scanned form. I've ordered a paper copy, but the mechanism sometimes is a black hole. Dennis

21 years, 7 months

Re: [TUHS] UNIX/32V

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

Wesley Parish: I was wondering as well, are there any VAX assembler manuals online, in an easily-copyable form? I've encountered html ones, but that isn't quite what I mean. What do you mean, then? In what way isn't HTML suitable? I don't mean to be obstreperous; I just think it would be easier to help if you made it clearer what you need and what you don't. To split hairs further, what do you mean by `VAX assembler manual'? There's a paper named Assember Reference Manual that came in Berkeley's Volume 2C for 3BSD, written by Reiser (Bell Labs) and Henry (Berkeley); it is a compact description of syntax and pseudo-ops, but doesn't list or explain the VAX instruction set itself. The best reference I know for the VAX instruction set is the official DEC manual called VAX Architecture Reference Manual (EK-VAXAR-RM), but at more than 500 pages it is not easily-copyable even in the way we thought of copying when it was published, i.e. that depicted on the cover of the latter-day Lions book. Norman Wilson Toronto ON

21 years, 7 months

Jump to page:

2025

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

2005

2004

2003

2002

2001

2000

1999

1998

1997

1996

1995

1994

1993

1992

1991

1990

TUHS