TUHS

tuhs@tuhs.org

47 participants
6504 discussions

by Jos� R. Valverde

Learn is free. At least it's author, some unherad of guy named Brian Kernighan is making it publicly available on the Net through his web page :-) http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/bwk/ It's been there for a long while. I had a similar problem with novice users some years ago, and remembered good old faithful 'learn' from Ultrix. I also remembered having compiled it at some point in OSF/1. So I went to the net and started a search, and lo! there it was at Brian's page. I ported it to IRIX, which is where I had said novice users, and being at it, to Linux as well. I must have the ported code somewhere but I'm on Holidays now. A look at AIX and Tru64 revealed it is still there in new versions of these, which proved great for me: DWK code did not come with all the lessons I had used before, and I could just copy the lessons from these systems over and use them with the port. Therefore, yes, it is free, it is available on the Net, I have already ported it to modern systems, and the lessons are still distributed with some commercial UNIX variants should you need them. j -- These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first! José R. Valverde De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural

21 years, 4 months

medialab.dyndns.org blocked and no more exist, use medialab.freaknet.org instead!

by asbesto

medialab.dyndns.org blocked - medialab.freaknet.org is the solution! dyndns.org blocked our domain "medialab.dyndns.org" for a not well specified "account violation" problem. we're trying to solve that, but the real problems is the large amount of google indexes pointing to medialab.dyndns.org this free domain was born when we was not able to register a "real" domain. now we have freaknet.org and medialab.freaknet.org, but there's nothing to do for all the old links resting into the net :) this address is used from many users around the world, to telnet, ssh, rlogin and surf our free computer network! so, here i announce that medialab.dyndns.org now is not working anymore, and people can use medialab.freaknet.org instead. Hope this message will be soon indexed by google :))) sorry for this - more details and all the story background can be read at our main site, http://www.freaknet.org in the news section. tnx all and god bless all PDP/11 in the world. -- [asbesto : freaknet medialab : radio#cybernet : GPG key on keyservers] [ MAIL ATTACH, SPAM, HTML, WORD, and msgs larger than 95K > /dev/null ] [http://www.freaknet.org/asbesto IW9HGS http://kyuzz.org/radiocybernet]

21 years, 4 months

MicroSoft Money Central Web Site on SCOX

by Kenneth Stailey

This one was too good to not pass around. http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/srs/srsmain.asp?Symbol=SCOX The sites says (and I quote) << The SCO Group, Inc., a small-cap growth company in the technology sector, is expected to significantly underperform the market over the next six months with very high risk. >> __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus

21 years, 4 months

Re: [TUHS] is learn(1) free now?

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

norman(a)nose.cs.utoronto.ca (Norman Wilson) wrote: > You mean you've restored the original version of cat that had only one option, > [...] Notice my use of the words "nearly" and "almost" in the part you responded to. Seriously though, you gotta agree that until 4.3BSD inclusive, Berkeley was basically adding to and extending V7. Sure they added a *lot* and extended many of the existing facilities, but with very few exceptions, it was all additive, virtually no V7 facility (except the mpx you mentioned) was removed. Yes, they added fsck, but icheck is still there! (No one uses it of course, but knowing that nobody removed it gives a warm fuzzy feeling.) The same goes for almost everything else. Here is the acid test: time-teleport a V7 user from 1979 to a VAX running 4.3BSD, set PATH=/bin:/usr/bin (no /usr/ucb), do stty old (old tty driver) and stty ek (erase # kill @) and see if he feels at home or not. Of course I never use my systems in this way, I make extensive use of Berkeley UNIX facilities, but I like it much better to use a system that is additive rather than substitutive with respect to Original UNIX. MS

21 years, 4 months

Re: [TUHS] is learn(1) free now?

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

Michael Sokolov: It feels so great knowing that my current modern OS (last release 2003-12-07 counts as current and modern to me) still has nearly all original V7 UNIX code almost completely untouched. It's what gives me the right to call it UNIX. ======= You mean you've restored the original version of cat that had only one option, and the version of ls that had fewer than a dozen and didn't care how wide the screen was; that filenames are only 14 characters long; that fsck has been abolished in favour of icheck and ncheck and dcheck; and that file system blocks have returned to their original V7 size of 512 bytes? My hat's off to you if so. On the other hand, I have to question either your stability or that of your system if you have reinstated the original V7 code implementing mpx(2). Norman Wilson Toronto ON (who actually used the old multiplexor once, but had to fix it first!)

21 years, 4 months

Re: [TUHS] is learn(1) free now?

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Kenneth Stailey <kstailey(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > Warren, I see that there is a 4.4BSD-Alpha subdir in the TUHS archive. Do you > want a final CSRG 4.4BSD tape to add there too? I would definitely want an image of the 4.4BSD tape too! But I do mean *tape*, not what's on Kirk's CD-ROM. I'm talking about a record-for-record image of the Official Release Master tape. > Thanks, I have to go through your archive for it now. Actually I just took a closer look and it has been in the distributed /usr/lib/learn since 4.3BSD, it was just never added to /usr/src/usr.lib/learn for some reason (not even in Quasijarus, I probably didn't notice it). So you don't have to go through the pain of downloading a dist from Harhan to pull it out of there, you can just take it from your CD-ROM set. > It's so difficult being you. :-) > I was able to save myself the time by > using the 4.4BSD version of learn(1) since it has already been > modified for CRT terminals. You will have to re-invent the wheel > because of your politics. Well I'll take a look at what they did to learn in 4.4BSD and see if any of it is acceptable for Quasijarus. Hopefully I won't have to reinvent the wheel. I believe in adding new features without breaking or disturbing historical stuff. It feels so great knowing that my current modern OS (last release 2003-12-07 counts as current and modern to me) still has nearly all original V7 UNIX code almost completely untouched. It's what gives me the right to call it UNIX. As far as learn goes I think I would need to add new lessons for UNIX on a CRT or some options or somesuch, but I do NOT want to remove the facility for teaching UNIX on a hardcopy tty. That's such a gem, it should be kept! MS

21 years, 4 months

Re: [TUHS] is learn(1) free now?

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Kenneth Stailey <kstailey(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > When I purchased my copy of _The > CSRG Archives_ CDROM set I was told in E-mail by McKusick that I did not need > to sign any license agreements. I am assuming that this is due to Caldera > proclaiming that V32 sources and binaries could be redistributed by the public > legally. Yes, this is correct, this is the same reason why Warren was able to remove the password system from his UNIX Archive and make it completely open. > In the CDROM set is a fully encumbered 4.4BSD source tree which > includes the learn(1) source code. Yup, I have it too (the whole CD-ROM set). learn(1) is far older than 4.4BSD though, and goes way back. 4.3BSD-Quasijarus has it too. > I also have yet to > get the vi lesson data which the source code that I do have says came on a > separate user-contributed tape. I just looked and 4.3BSD-Quasijarus has the vi lesson data as part of the standard system. > I got here because I have newbies in my life now and I need UNIX online > courseware. Hear hear. I sometimes get into this situation too, usually when dating and getting faced with the need to teach a prospective female how to use a real operating system, since the one woman who finally makes it would absolutely have to use 4.3BSD-Quasijarus on my VAXen. I looked into learn, but one thing it disappointed me with is that it's woefully outdated. It starts by setting the tty erase and kill chars to '#' and '@' respectively and teaching you how to edit the command line on a hardcopy tty. Well, OK, some would see this as good educational value, but the problem is, if you don't actually *have* a hardcopy tty, and most of us don't, it doesn't work too well. It prints out lessons longer than 24 lines and they scroll off the top of the VT terminal. It was definitely written with the assumption that one has a hardcopy tty with a long roll of continuous paper, and it expects the student to grab the paper coming out of the teletype and look at what's been printed, but it just doesn't work on a VT terminal. Not to mention that in the end the lessons give the student little practical learning that would actually be useful when using UNIX on a CRT terminal. (For example, it would be very practical to explain to the student the difference between ^H and ^? and teach him/her how to deal with it.) > I'm wondering about distributing the results of my porting effort once it > matures enough to be worth doing so. Well, as a I said 4.3BSD-Quasijarus contains learn and all other "encumbered code" and it is freely available via anonymous FTP from ifctfvax.Harhan.ORG, so... BTW for those who missed it I released 4.3-QJ0b on 2003-12-07. MS

21 years, 4 months

web site detailing Apple's mc68k UNIX, A/UX

by Al Kossow

> I would be interested to know if there is any chance of getting a hobbyist > A/UX license out of Apple. A/UX started out as a port of Unisoft SysV. Prior to version 2.0, there was no Finder interface at all. A real history of the product should be done at some point, as opposed to the half-baked opinions of someone who has only seen a very late version of the product. Since there were per-copy licensing fees to Unisoft, at least for the early versions, it seems unlikely that a hobbyist license for A/UX would be possible.

21 years, 4 months

[TUHS] m68k SVR2 on Perq (was: web site detailing Apple's mc68k UNIX, A/UX)

by Roger Willcocks

Incidentally, the Unisoft m68k port of SVR2 at the core of A/UX was also ported to the Perq-5 in 1986/1987, to create the Crosfield Studio 9500. Perq had just folded, but a core group of ex-Perq employees worked with a team from the UK company Crosfield Electronics to take the machine (which at that time existed only as a wire-wrap prototype) through to production. I was a member of that team and I have fond memories of sitting in a basement office in Pittsburgh surrounded by kernel listings (with a very puzzled look on my face). Just a small footnote in Unix history... -- Roger

21 years, 4 months

web site detailing Apple's mc68k UNIX, A/UX

by Kenneth Stailey

http://www.applefritter.com/ui/aux/ Site discusses what it was like to use A/UX, why Apple discontinued it, etc. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree

21 years, 4 months

is learn(1) free now?

by Kenneth Stailey

Hi, When 4.4BSD-lite was released one of the 4.4BSD encumbered things that was cut was the online courseware program, learn(1). When I purchased my copy of _The CSRG Archives_ CDROM set I was told in E-mail by McKusick that I did not need to sign any license agreements. I am assuming that this is due to Caldera proclaiming that V32 sources and binaries could be redistributed by the public legally. In the CDROM set is a fully encumbered 4.4BSD source tree which includes the learn(1) source code. I spent a few hours last night porting it to NetBSD and FreeBSD and tightening up a few bits like gets() vs. fgets(). I haven't finished and have yet to distributed the results. I also have yet to get the vi lesson data which the source code that I do have says came on a separate user-contributed tape. I got here because I have newbies in my life now and I need UNIX online courseware. The only thing I could find in the FreeBSD ports tree was something called vilearn. I'm wondering about distributing the results of my porting effort once it matures enough to be worth doing so. Thanks, Ken __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree

21 years, 4 months

earily Supnik paper on SIM the precursor to SIMH

by Kenneth Stailey

http://research.compaq.com/wrl/DECarchives/DTJ/DTJN02/DTJN02HM.HTM This web page also discusses restoring actual DEC hardware. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree

21 years, 4 months

by Larry J. Blunk

Apologies if this has been answered before, but I noticed that there are AT&T copyright notices in the kernel sources for Unix Edition 5, but they were removed in Edition 6. You can still see the comment blocks for the notices in Edition 6, but the notices themselves have been removed. Does anyone have the history on this? I noticed that USL registered Editions 5, 6, 7 and 32V in 1992. I would assume that Editions 4 and earlier are free and clear because, prior to 1978, registration was a requirement for protection. Further, since USL waited longer than 5 years to register the copyrights for 5, 6, 7 and 32V, these may be free and clear as well. As I understand it, Editions 7 and 32V could have had copyright protection without registration since they were released after 1978. However, because they lacked copyright notices when released, they may very well be considered public domain. It was not until 1989 that the requirement for including copyright notices was dropped.

21 years, 5 months

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

Larry J. Blunk: Apologies if this has been answered before, but I noticed that there are AT&T copyright notices in the kernel sources for Unix Edition 5, but they were removed in Edition 6. [...] I noticed that USL registered Editions 5, 6, 7 and 32V in 1992. I would assume that Editions 4 and earlier are free and clear [...] As I understand it, Editions 7 and 32V could have had copyright protection without registration since they were released after 1978. However, because they lacked copyright notices when released, they may very well be considered public domain. It was not until 1989 that the requirement for including copyright notices was dropped. ======== Notwithstanding other comments about the history, for practical purposes none of this matters for Seventh Edition and 32V and anything earlier, because Caldera (as it then was) open-licensed them in January 2002; see http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Caldera-license.pdf. To be precise, that license covers 32-bit 32V UNIX 16 bit UNIX Versions 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 with specific exclusion of System III and System V and successors. That is why source code for the Seventh Edition system (for example) is openly accessibly on the TUHS web server. Among those whose dog work produced first a hobbyist-specific per-person license, then the current BSD-like license, was Warren Toomey, who manages that web server and this mailing list. I don't think it will give him a swollen head (or a wooden leg) to thank him now and then, and I do so here. Long-time readers know all that, but those who have joined us recently might not. Norman Wilson Toronto ON

21 years, 5 months

RE: Fw: RATE RQST FROM RIO JANERIO TO JEDDAH PORT

by zmkm zmkm

mamun tks for the prompt reply but we need the rate to malaysia not to jeddah and the rate must be break bulk because cntr will be very expensive. since each shipment is about 15 000 tons (fifteen thousand tons) it means we'll need about 700 cntrs !!! , and the contract will be about 150.000 tons divided into 10 shipments of 15 000 each . break bulk will be much cheaper , pls try to find some one else very urgently try shipco people maybe they can do it. pls mamun this is very important and top urgent , also I need reply overnight as client is losing patience. tks & rgs zouhair >From: mamun <mam_moudayfer(a)awalnet.net.sa> >To: new_zmkm(a)hotmail.com >Subject: Fw: RATE RQST FROM RIO JANERIO TO JEDDAH PORT >Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 09:55:09 +0300 > >Zouz > >Here is the reply fm brazil , as they can not offer service by Breakbulk. >pls comments. >Rgds/Mamun > >-----Original Message----- >From: Alexandre Jacomo <alexandre(a)unicarrier.com.br> >To: asad_moudayfer(a)awalnet.net.sa <asad_moudayfer(a)awalnet.net.sa> >Date: Monday, December 22, 2003 10:01 PM >Subject: RATE RQST FROM RIO JANERIO TO JEDDAH PORT > > >Dear Mr Asad Moudayfer > >Thank you for your below rate request. Pls be advised our best rate: > >From Rio de Janeiro Port to Jeddah Port >Cntr 20' std: US$ 2100 + $200 Baf >Cntr 40' std: US$ 3100 + $400 Baf >TT 45 days via Singapore >Charges in Rio de Janeiro Port >US$ 25 BL >US$ 50 per cntr 20' or 40' Capatazias - Brazilian THC > >Break Bulk from Rio de Janeiro Port to Port Klang/Malaysia >Unfortunately we can't offer this service, because we can't use our BL to >Break Bulk cargo. > >Rgds, > >Alexandre Jácomo > Commercial Dept. > UnicarrieR Ltd. - The Friendshipper > Tel.: 5511 3253 5334 Fax: 5511 3253 5277 > Email: alexandre(a)unicarrier.com.br > Web: www.unicarrier.com.br > Neutralidade - Segurança - Ética >----- Original Message ----- >From: Asad >To: Alexandre >Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 2:10 PM >Subject: Fw: RATE RQST FROM RIO JANERIO TO JEDDAH PORT > > > >Dear Alexandre > >Ref to our mail below earlier few minutes. > >Please note, we want rates by Break-bulk from fob RIO JANERIO upto PORT >KLANG/MALAYSIA >COMMODITY : RAW SUGAR IN BAGS TOTAL 150 THOUSAND TON / 15 THOUSAND TONS IN >EACH LOT. > >Please name the carrier & T/Time along with your best obtainable Bulk >rates at your earliest. > >Best Regards > >Mamun >Moudayfer & Bros co. >Riyadh - Ksa > >-----Original Message----- >From: Asad <asad_moudayfer(a)awalnet.net.sa> >To: Alexandre <alexandre(a)unicarrier.com.br> >Date: Monday, December 22, 2003 6:46 PM >Subject: RATE RQST FROM RIO JANERIO TO JEDDAH PORT > > >Dear Mr. Alexandre >Good Day > >Please provide us your best possible FOB ocean freight rate for 1X40fit & >1X20fit cntr from RIO JANERIO to Jeddah port. The commodity is sugar. > >We will appriceate about your soonest reply. > >Thanks & Best Regards > >Asad >Moudayfer & Bros Co >Riyadh >K.s.a. _________________________________________________________________ Working moms: Find helpful tips here on managing kids, home, work and yourself. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/workingmom.armx

21 years, 5 months

Re: [TUHS] question about mkfs(8) and stdio

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Kenneth Stailey <kstailey(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > Did stdio buffering change over time? Line buffering was a Berkeley innovation. stdout became line-buffered by default (when it is a terminal) in 4.0BSD. 4.2BSD added setlinebuf(3) to allow people to make stdout or stderr line-buffered when they want to. 4.3BSD extended it to work on any stream, not just stdout or stderr. > If you look at an old BSD mkfs for cylinder-group style file systems (not 7th > Ed filesystems) Ahmm, you call that old? To me it's new... It's a (wonderful) 4.2BSD innovation. > but I have memories that the superblocks were printed out one at a time as if > fflush(stdout) was called between them rather than one line at a time with > line-buffered stdio. I use 4.3BSD-* systems every day and have been for the past several years, and you can take my word for it that on all 4.3BSD-* systems, including Quasijarus, plain 4.3, and Ultrix the alternate superblock list output from mkfs/newfs appears one line at a time on the tty. > At some point I thought "SysV must have broke this" I'm curious, where does SysV fit into this? It's the wonderful 4.2BSD filesystem a BSD-only thing that Missed'em-five people treated as a satanic manifestation? > since newfs would print out > a complete row of superblock numbers at once with a big delay between the rows That's exactly what it does. BTW mkfs = newfs. mkfs was/is the original UNIX filesystem creator. It was almost completely rewritten in 4.2BSD to create the new filesystems. At the same time the newfs program was written as a user- friendly front-end to mkfs (it merely exec'ed mkfs with a bunch of options). The situation remained in 4.3. In 4.3-Tahoe/Quasijarus mkfs.c and newfs.c are compiled and linked into one binary called newfs, CSRG was forced to do this in order to support disk labels. MS

21 years, 5 months

Re: [TUHS] question about mkfs(8) and stdio

by John Holden

> you will see the super block backup loop does not fflush(stdio) between > printf()s Was there a 'setbuf(stdout, NULL)' at the beginning? This would force immediate output from any printf's (less efficient than a fflush)

21 years, 5 months

question about mkfs(8) and stdio

by Kenneth Stailey

Did stdio buffering change over time? If you look at an old BSD mkfs for cylinder-group style file systems (not 7th Ed filesystems) you will see the super block backup loop does not fflush(stdio) between printf()s printf("super-block backups (for fsck -b#) at:"); for (cylno = 0; cylno < sblock.fs_ncg; cylno++) { initcg(cylno); if (cylno % 10 == 0) printf("\n"); printf(" %d,", fsbtodb(&sblock, cgsblock(&sblock, cylno))); } but I have memories that the superblocks were printed out one at a time as if fflush(stdout) was called between them rather than one line at a time with line-buffered stdio. At some point I thought "SysV must have broke this" since newfs would print out a complete row of superblock numbers at once with a big delay between the rows rather than each superblock number with a short delay between each number. But when I go searching the oldest BSD code has no fflush(stdout) the way modern FreeBSD does: for (cylno = 0; cylno < sblock.fs_ncg; cylno++) { initcg(cylno, utime); if (mfs) continue; j = snprintf(tmpbuf, sizeof(tmpbuf), " %ld%s", fsbtodb(&sblock, cgsblock(&sblock, cylno)), cylno < (sblock.fs_ncg-1) ? "," : "" ); if (i + j >= width) { printf("\n"); i = 0; } i += j; printf("%s", tmpbuf); fflush(stdout); } Did stdio buffering change over time so that line buffering became the default? Thanks, Ken __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree

21 years, 5 months

RE: [pups] pdp11/73 memory

by Fred N. van Kempen

Hi all, > No. The uVAX memory requires special PMI stuff (carried over those > ribbon cables) that the PDP-11 CPUs don't grok. At least, that's > what I've always been told. Correct. --f

21 years, 5 months

[pups] pdp11/73 memory

by Christos Papachristou

I recently found a cabinet with a MicroVAX II (in 2 BA23 enclosures) and quite a lot storage devices on it. I plan to replace the MicroVAX II CPU module (M7606-AA) with a pdp11/73 CPU module (M8192) . I only have a 512k RAM module (M8067LA) for the pdp11/73 . The microVAX has two quad height memory modules , but I haven't checked yet whether they are 1, 2 ,4 or 8 megs each (ie M7607,M7608 or M7609) .Is it possible to keep some of the MicroVAX memory modules if they are below or equal to 4 megs?

21 years, 5 months

Re: [pups] pdp11/73 memory

by Carl Lowenstein

> From: "Christos Papachristou" <chpap(a)ics.forth.gr> > To: <pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org> > Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 18:31:12 +0200 > Subject: [pups] pdp11/73 memory > > I recently found a cabinet with a MicroVAX II (in 2 BA23 enclosures) and > quite a lot storage devices on it. I plan to replace the MicroVAX II CPU > module (M7606-AA) with a pdp11/73 CPU module (M8192) . I only have a > 512k RAM module (M8067LA) for the pdp11/73 . The microVAX has two quad > height memory modules , but I haven't checked yet whether they are 1, 2 > ,4 or 8 megs each (ie M7607,M7608 or M7609) .Is it possible to keep some > of the MicroVAX memory modules if they are below or equal to 4 megs? No. MicroVAX memory uses a different interconnect scheme. It is not in the Qbus address space. carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenst(a)ucsd.edu

21 years, 5 months

trix src

by Al Kossow

Wesley, what I have of the sources is now up at www.bitsavers.org/MIT/trix You might try contacting Dave Goddeau or Steve Ward to see what else might still exist. Dave's MS thesis was on implementing an MP version of the Trix kernel.

21 years, 5 months

Re: Possible Trix source tape

by Al Kossow

> From memory, there wasn't that much to it at the time RMS was looking at it. what I should have said was there wasn't much done on Trix when RMS was looking at it.

21 years, 5 months

Re: Possible Trix source tape

by Al Kossow

I should have this on one of my backup tapes. If RMS is willing to send his tape to California, I have the equipment to read his. -- > It's interesting to consider what might've been if the GNU project > hadn't got behind on the Hurd, and got up-to-speed with Trix. -- If it wasn't tied up with Stanford licensing issues, the V Kernel would have been a more mature system than Trix. From memory, there wasn't that much to it at the time RMS was looking at it.

21 years, 5 months

32I: spl*() and paging up

by Pat Villani

A quick update. I have spl*() code as well as ia32 paging up in a small test kernel. More testing remains to be done before integrating into 32I kernel. Interrupt structure working well, as well as system call interface. Still need copyin(), copyout(), fubyte(), fuibyte(), fuword(), etc., as well as save(), resume(), etc. Future progress will slow down a little. I have accepted an adjunct teaching position, and will need to devote some otherwise free time to preparing lessons. I still expect to have a preliminary running kernel by New Years. Pat -- I've always found paranoia to be a perfectly defensible position. -- Pat Conroy

21 years, 5 months

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TUHS