TUHS

tuhs@tuhs.org

48 participants
6504 discussions

by Wesley Parish

(Not receiving a reply back then, I'm going to ask again. My apologies for any inconvenience.) wotthehell, I'm going to ask anyway. Soemtime during the late 1980s, Clarkson U., came out with a GPLed MS-DOS word processor package called Galahad, released under the Galahad Public License, which is a rebadged GNU Emacs Public License. I've sent them the CS Professor an email requesting the source. I was wondering if anyone on this list might have the sources, because as yet I've had no reply. Thanks Wesley Parish -- Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish ----- Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui? You ask, what is the most important thing? Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata. I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.

20 years, 1 month

Help about a DATA GENERAL ECLIPSE MV-7800 with DG-UX

by asbesto

Hi all, we recently received this fantastic machine for our computer museum. We need some help because we can't find any documentation about the "console cable", to connect a tty terminal to it, and make it boot (or test the cpu, or whatever) we think we have only a part of the manuals, so we can't make progress booting it and we don't want to make casual testing ... can someone help? some documentation images can be found here: http://dyne.org/~asbesto/missionecompiuta1/ http://dyne.org/~asbesto/missionecompiuta2/ http://dyne.org/~asbesto/missionecompiuta3/ sorry for some crazy and funny images - we are really crazy people :D -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ]

20 years, 1 month

unix non disclosure clauses

by martin hardie

Hi i joined this list as I found some intersting stuff in its archives and I am working on my Phd in law concerning the logic and rhetoric of FOSS and i thought maybe the list would be a good source of knowledgable information. I am currently proofing a draft thesis chapter I have put together on the early history of Unix and have a question or two arising from text of the early licences. The 1974 licence to the Catholic University in Holland (I guess this was to Andy Tanenbaum) has a confidentiality clause in it. I presume this was a standard clause. That is interesting from lots of perspectives - the myth of a unix commons, which we both know is a myth in the GNUish sense although people like Lessig still say it in their tomes; and from the perspective that copyright or patents where not used to cover the code but confidential inofrmation - this resonates with my work with Aboriginal artists in Australia and their communal system of knowledge production and with the notion of trust and equity which I am building towards in this research. But right now what interests me is a bit more in the context of contemporary "licence fetishism" or the way licences and IP were viewed back then. I am sort of trying to deal with the way that many commentators (like Lessig, Wayner and even Raymond) credit changes in unix and linux to legal command. I just don't buy that but position them more in the context of the globalisation of production. Anyway, the question - the licences prohibited dissemination of Unix to third parties - eg in the case of universities the system could only be given/shown to students and employees. How then was the question of bugs, fixes and updates dealt with? Did everything come back to Bell and then get dealt with from there. IE the question of who controllled "R&D"? Did universities talk directly to each other? And if so when did this become a problem for AT&T? If at all? If they did was there any conception that they were breaking the licence conditions? I am also intrigued about Raymond's comment that Ken quietly shipped out copies of the program with a note "love Ken". Is this based in fact? was it a covert operation? And is it tied into the matter of turning a blind eye to licence conditions eg the unis talking to each other directly? Is that clear? If the uni's were talking to each other and Ken was sending out gift wrapped parcels ......... maybe there was a commons but not one annointed by law..... Thanks Martin

20 years, 1 month

I came across this

by Wesley Parish

here: http://www.finseth.com/~fin/emacs.html Anyone got any idea where it might be hiding out? Thanks Wesley Parish // Emacs [toc] name: Emacs last changed/verified: 1994-12-20 original distribution: 1975 version: 165 base language: MIDAS (PDP10/DEC-20 assembly language) implementation language: TECO extension language: TECO scope of implementation: extensible hardware/software requirements: PDP10/ITS or DEC-20/TOPS-20 organization/author: Richard M. Stallman MIT AI Lab/MIT Lab. for Comp. Sci. 545 Technology Square Cambridge MA 02139 USA Note: this is the original free, anonymous FTP from ? -- Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish ----- Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui? You ask, what is the most important thing? Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata. I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.

20 years, 1 month

franz-lisp

by Wesley Parish

I downloaded this a short while ago and am interested in trying it out on my Linux box and also on my Windows machine, through the MinGW compiler suite. But lispconf is demanding cvt.awk and it's not on my system. Can anyone help me out? Thanks Wesley Parish -- Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish ----- Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui? You ask, what is the most important thing? Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata. I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.

20 years, 1 month

Not strictly TUHS, but

by Wesley Parish

wotthehell, I'm going to ask anyway. Soemtime during the late 1980s, Clarkson U., came out with a GPLed MS-DOS word processor package called Galahad, released under the Galahad Public License, which is a rebadged GNU Emacs Public License. I've sent them the CS Professor an email requesting the source. I was wondering if anyone on this list might have the sources, because as yet I've had no reply. Thanks Wesley Parish -- Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish ----- Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui? You ask, what is the most important thing? Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata. I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.

20 years, 1 month

Re: [TUHS] Why you should not be wasting electricity powering old computers

by Kenneth Stailey

--- Kenneth Stailey <kstailey(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > http://kimaura.com/peakoil/peakoil-56k.ram Good Old 7-bit ASCII transcript of the dialog in that streaming video. Doesn't have any of the charts so there are places you will find you can't follow it since Roscoe is just point to a chart. Excerpts from the US Congressional Record follow: OIL PRODUCTION -- (House of Representatives - March 14, 2005) The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under a previous order of the House, the gentleman from Maryland (Mr. Gilchrest) is recognized for 5 minutes. Mr. GILCHREST. Mr. Speaker, in just a few minutes, the gentleman from Maryland (Mr. Bartlett) will address the House for some period of time talking about energy sources, oil in particular, and the fact that many experts say that oil production, especially in the United States, but actually throughout the world, oil production of conventional oil under current patterns is expected to grow at a rate much faster, that means the use of oil by the world community is supposed to grow much faster than oil discovery production. [Time: 19:45] What is clear, because we are not sure exactly when that peak will come in oil production, some say it is peaking right now, some say it will peak in 10 years, the amount of oil we get out of the ground will exceed the demand; but what is clear is that at some point in this century, world oil production will peak and then begin to decline. There is uncertainty about the date because many countries that produce oil do not provide credible data on how big their reserves are. But more uncertainty calls for more caution, not less; and caution in this case means working to develop alternatives. When production of conventional oil peaks, we can expect a large increase in the price up to the price of the substitutes, whether so-called unconventional oil or renewable fuels. Although increasing domestic production may ease oil dependence slightly, the United States is only 3 percent of the world's estimated oil reserves and uses 25 percent of the world's oil. I want to explain just from the perspective of the United States the huge increase in energy demand in the last century. I am going to use the word ``quadrillion.'' Quadrillion is a number. If I put 1 followed by 15 zeroes, I have the number quadrillion. To measure energy use in a country, we use BTUs, British thermal units. A new furnace, whether oil or natural gas, you see the BTU to determine how much energy it is going to use. When you use BTUs to determine how much energy a country uses, you use a short term for quadrillion called ``quads.'' In 1910, the United States used 7 quads of BTUs. That is 7 quadrillion BTUs. In 1950, the United States used 35 quadrillion BTUs. In 2005, the United States uses 100 quadrillion BTUs, and we are accelerating that. We are increasing demand for oil for our energy needs. The world right now, 2005, uses 345 quadrillion BTUs, an enormous amount of energy. We know today that our appliances, whether a washing machine, a refrigerator or dishwasher, we know they are much more efficient than they ever were, certainly 20, 30, 40 years ago; and yet we are using more electricity, not less. We know that automobiles and trucks and our transportation is much more efficient than it was 20 years ago, and yet the demand is increasing. We burn more coal, more natural gas. Each home, as efficient as each home is today, burns much more oil and electricity because of the demand on energy needs. We are not decreasing by getting efficient. Because our demand is greater, we are using more and more. The question is if we are increasing demand and production is going to peak now or in the next decade or two and our production goes down while the demand goes up, especially with oil reserves, are we at the early stages of the twilight for oil as an energy source? And if we are, what do we do? Well, the gentleman from Maryland (Mr. Bartlett) will speak on a number of aspects of oil production decline. We will talk much further about the details of the solution to the problems of [Page: H1409] our energy decline, but I want to close with two last things: How do we harness a new alternative energy source and make it replace what we have been using for more than 2 centuries? How do we do that? We do it with initiative, ingenuity, intellect, vision, and leadership. [portions deleted] OIL DEMAND -- (House of Representatives - March 14, 2005) MR. ROSCOE BARTLETT A couple of Congresses ago, I was privileged to chair the Energy Subcommittee on Science. One of the first things I wanted to do was to determine the dimensions of the problem. We held a couple of hearings and had the world experts in. Surprisingly from the most pessimistic to the most optimistic, there was not much deviation in what the estimate is as to what the known reserves are out there. It is about 1,000 gigabarrels. That sounds like an awful lot of oil. But when you divide into that the amount of oil which we use, [Page: H1410] about 20 million barrels a day, and the amount of oil the rest of the world uses, about 60 million barrels a day, as a matter of fact, the total now is a bit over the 80 million that those two add up to. About 83 1/2 , I think. If you divide that into the 1,000 gigabarrels, you come out at about 40 years of oil remaining in the world. That is pretty good. Because up until the Carter years, during the Carter years, in every decade we used as much oil as had been used in all of previous history. Let me repeat that, because that is startling. In every decade, we used as much oil as had been used in all of previous history. The reason for that, of course, was that we were on the upward side of this bell curve. The bell curve for usage, only part of it is shown on this chart. That is the green one down here, the bell curve for usage. Notice that we are out here now about 2005. Where is it going? The Energy Information Agency says that we are going to keep on using more oil. This green line just going up and up and up is a projection of the Energy Information Agency. But that cannot be true. That cannot be true for a couple of reasons. We peaked in our discovery of oil way back here in the late sixties, about 1970. In our country it peaked much earlier than that, by the way. But the world is following several years behind us. And the area under this red curve must be the same as the area under the green curve. You cannot pump any more oil than you have found, quite obviously. If you have not found it, you cannot pump it. If you were to extend this on out where they have extended their green line, even if it turned down right there at the end of that green line, the area under the green curve is going to be very much larger than the area under the red curve. That just cannot be. We will see in some subsequent charts that we probably have reached peak oil. Let me mention that M. King Hubbert looked at the world situation. He was joined by another scientist, Colin Campbell, who is still alive, an American citizen who lives in Scotland. Using M. King Hubbert's predictive techniques, oil was predicted to reach a maximum in about 1995, without perturbations. But there were some perturbations. One of the perturbations was 1973, the Arab oil embargo. Other perturbations were the oil price shocks and a worldwide recession that reduced the demand for oil. And so the peak that might have occurred in 1995 will occur later. How much later? That is what we are looking at this evening. There is a lot of evidence that suggests that if not now, then very quickly we should see world production of oil peak. [portions deleted] What now? Where do we go now? One observer, Matt Savinar, who has thoroughly researched the options, and this is not the most optimistic assessment, by the way, but may be somewhat realistic, he starts out by saying, Dear Readers, civilization as we know it is coming to an end soon. I hope not. This is not the wacky proclamation of a doomsday cult, apocalypse Bible sect or conspiracy theory society. Rather, it is a scientific conclusion of the best-paid, most widely respected geologists, physicists and investment bankers in the world. These are rational, professional, conservative individuals who are absolutely terrified by the phenomenon known as global peak oil. [portions deleted]

20 years, 1 month

JPLDIS - still extant?

by Wesley Parish

I was looking around for stuff to play with on FreeDOS and I thought, do they have any DBMS yet? So I googled for (dbase public domain) and got something about the aforesaid JPLDIS, the Jet Propulsion Laboratory's Display and Information System. Anyone got any ideas of its continued existence? (It's written in Fortran, I judge, and I think there are a few PD Fortrans out there that could be used to reanimate it. ;) Thanks Wesley Parish -- Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish ----- Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui? You ask, what is the most important thing? Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata. I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.

20 years, 1 month

[TUHS] Why you should not be wasting electricity powering old computers

by Norman Wilson

Kenneth Stailey: http://kimaura.com/peakoil/peakoil-56k.ram ======= Because it's too much bother to set up Real Audio on the ancient or unusual operating systems that are the reason such old computers are interesting? In any case, let he who has gone the longest without owning or operating an internal-combustion engine cast the first stone. (Mind your head, Jim.) Norman Wilson Toronto ON

20 years, 1 month

[TUHS] Why you should not be wasting electricity powering old computers

by Kenneth Stailey

http://kimaura.com/peakoil/peakoil-56k.ram

20 years, 1 month

Got old MVII critter and wanna bring up a 4.3BSD family thingy.....but no tape..

by Robertdkeys＠aol.com

Having fallen into that trap of another one dollar vax.....of the Qbus variety, and, wanting to try to bring up another round of some sort of 4.3BSD related thingy, but, with no tape drive or tape cartridges, can anyone come up with a dd'able root image that is known to work on an MVII critter, AND, have a footprint of 1mb or less (i.e., a disklabel of only 1mb size or less)? Sadly, all my tapes have decomposed to dust, and I am down to one questionable TK50 tape drive. I can get a boot of the Quasijarus boot, off a floppy, but it won't read a miniroot that was dd'd onto a swap partition correctly. I can boot a NetBSD 1.4.1 and work back to a NetBSD-1.0A which is usable to unroll file systems onto a drive, but, it won't boot the kernel correctly into a 4.3BSDish system. I still need the correct boot blocks and boots. I did try an image from vaxpower's root, and that booted and ran mostly OK, but, it had a label set up for a 4 gig drive, and my controller has early enough proms that it won't handle anything larger than a 1 gb drive. I tried a couple of other images from here and there, but the boot blocks are not quite right to run on my vax. So, anyone have handy a dd'able root with boot blocks, set up for a 1gb or smaller drive, that is known to work on an MVII critter for some flavor of 4.3BSD (4.3, Tahoe, Reno, Quasijarus) that I could use to get my machine up? The only constraints on the image are that it must have a label set up for a 1gb or smaller drive, and it must have a usable ftp from usr/bin dropped into bin, so I can ftp in the rest of the system after booting up the root image. One other thought might be to create a bootable dd image with a root only system that contains all the requisite user bits on say a 100mb or so root file system. That is non-standard, from the traditionalists point of view, but, at least the system would come up essentially running, and complete. It could then be partitioned and cloned off onto a standardly partitioned drive, as a next step. Like a fool, the last time I ran the system, about 5 years ago, I religiously copied off all the bits onto cd, except for a dd'able boot/root image... drat! Kick, Kick, Kick... etc.....(:+{{..... Any pointers to such an image, or anyone that has a system up that might create me such an image, would be greatly appreciated. With the EOL of many tapes at hand, I suspect that it may be the only good way to bring up a 4.3BSDish system on a Qbus box, and we might should save up a such usable image in the TUHS archives. Thanks Bob Keys

20 years, 2 months

Intergraph 2700

by Paul Ward

Hello all, A friend of mine has liberated an old Intergraph 2700 workstation from a basement. The system looks to be in fine condition and boots up to multiuser+X. However, there appears to be a problem. I am not sure whether the problem is hardware or software, but the digitizer puck seems to have stopped sending anything back to the workstation. I have to say that I am not 100% sure how Intergraph digitizers are wired up -- the cable from the digitizer is run via a split cable, so one can be wired up to the mouse port, and the other to the RS232 port, right now I have plugged both in. Is there anyone with Intergraph experience who can enlighten me in regards to the cables, or maybe some diagnostics that can be done on the puck? The puck is a 12-button grey creature, and the digitizer is a Kurta XLC (sorry, I am not infront of the system right now, and can't remember the model number). Another thing to note is that I can't recover the root password without some sort of pointer device input, and thus cannot log in to diagnose any possible software problems. -- Best regards, Paul mailto:asmodai@ao.mine.nu http://ao.mine.nu/ (NeXTmail) mailto:nextmail@ao.mine.nu

20 years, 2 months

ultrix and y2k

by alex＠lava-net.com

Hi, Since the ultrix-4.2 source was "liberated" has anyone atempted to fix some of the y2k issues? (I'd like to run it on some vaxen I have access to and it's kinda useless without y2k support). Does this source even compile? thanks.

20 years, 2 months

Lion's

by Tim Newsham

For those looking for a copy of Lion's: http://www.lulu.com/content/99701

20 years, 2 months

Sprite OS trouble.

by Jochen Kunz

Hi. I am trying to bring up a Sprite cluster. [1] I was able to get the demo system running on a SPARCstation 1+ by dd-ing the boot image to a disk. Now I wane label an additional disk, make LFS, ... make the new disk bootable to get more free disk space then I have on the premade boot image. But I can't get a label on the disk with labeldisk nor did I succeed using fsmakeprompt. The later crashes... Next step is to bring a SPARCstation 2, an IPX and two ELCs into the cluster. Is there someone out there with Sprite experience who can help me? Additionaly I was not able to get the PMAX image to work on my DECstation 5000/240 nor my DECstation 3100. Any ideas? Do I really need a DECstation 5000/200 for this? [1] http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/Research/Projects/sprite/ A mixed architecture, distributed single system image OS capable of process migration that presented the cluster to a user as a single, large multiprocessor machine. Pmake and LFS (Log-Structured File System) originate from Sprite. -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/

20 years, 2 months

stuff

by Keith Jackson

Maybe somebody wants this stuff? http://madsoft.lonestar.org/garage/

20 years, 3 months

A BSD Question

by Kenneth Stailey

Who was the great Yang of Cardiff-by-the-Sea?

20 years, 3 months

Re: [TUHS] licence of ditroff?

by Aharon Robbins

> Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 17:50:26 +0000 (UTC) > From: Thorsten Glaser <tg(a)66h.42h.de> > Subject: Re: [TUHS] licence of ditroff? > To: Aharon Robbins <arnold(a)skeeve.com> > Cc: martinwguy(a)yahoo.it, miros-discuss(a)66h.42h.de, tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org > > Aharon Robbins dixit: > > >Instead of starting with 27 year old code, you'd be better > >off taking the troff from http://www.swtch.com/plan9port. > > Thanks, that's a nice idea, but from what I experienced, > the portability of recent AT&T/Bell/Lucent/whatever code > is worse than the bugs in old code (eg. I could not get > ksh93 to compile, something in there just dumped core; > but then that's Unix, not Plan 9). ksh93 is a different animal, from a different group, and problems there are not surprising (sadly). On the flip side, they do take bug reports seriously. > >This is a port of many Plan 9 utilities to Unix. The troff there > >(a) has an explicit license that will probably do for the BSD people > > If it's the same licence as for 8c, then no, unfortunately. I don't know. It's worth double checking the current license; it changed sometime in the past year or two. The Plan 9 troff is certainly a descendant of the ditroff you found, for whatever that's worth. Arnold

20 years, 3 months

Re: [TUHS] licence of ditroff?

by Aharon Robbins

Instead of starting with 27 year old code, you'd be better off taking the troff from http://www.swtch.com/plan9port. This is a port of many Plan 9 utilities to Unix. The troff there (a) has an explicit license that will probably do for the BSD people (b) already knows how to produce PostScript (c) can handle UTF-8 and 16-bit Unicode Arnold > Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:39:47 +0000 (UTC) > From: Thorsten Glaser <tg(a)66h.42h.de> > Subject: [TUHS] licence of ditroff? > To: martinwguy(a)yahoo.it > Cc: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org, miros-discuss(a)66h.42h.de > > Hi! > > I would like to know which licence the files at > http://medialab.dyndns.org/~martin/tape/stuff/ditroff/ > are under. > > If it's http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Caldera-license.pdf > that would be nice, if not, is there any way to find > out whose (c) is on the files, and how to contact them? > > Reason: I'm developer of a BSD offspring and already > integrated 4.4BSD-Alpha nroff, neqn, tbl etc. under the > Caldera licence above into our operating system in order > to get rid of the less free, written in C++, GNU groff. > With success. Now I'm lacking postscript output. > > Thanks in advance, > //mirabile > _______________________________________________ > TUHS mailing list > TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs

20 years, 3 months

[martin@freaknet.org: Re: [tg@66h.42h.de: [TUHS] licence of ditroff?]]

by asbesto

----- Forwarded message from Martin Guy <martin(a)freaknet.org> ----- From: Martin Guy <martin(a)freaknet.org> To: asbesto <asbesto(a)freaknet.org> Subject: Re: [tg(a)66h.42h.de: [TUHS] licence of ditroff?] Ta! I already dealt with this in november - same person. Is this an old message? The outcome was: it's in the public domain because they published the original sources with no copyright notice at the top... so they are going to create a new free troff from the sources on my tape, more free than groff! Yes! M On Mon, 24 Jan 2005, asbesto wrote: [snip] > ----- Forwarded message from Thorsten Glaser <tg(a)66h.42h.de> ----- > > I would like to know which licence the files at > http://medialab.dyndns.org/~martin/tape/stuff/ditroff/ > are under. [snip] > ----- End forwarded message ----- -- [ asbesto ::: IW9HGS ::: freaknet medialab ::: radio#cybernet ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ I DELETE MSGS > 100K & with ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD, SPAM ] [ NON USARE LETTERE ACCENTATE ==== NON MANDARE MESSAGGI IN HTML ]

20 years, 3 months

original SCCS code?

by Aharon Robbins

Is the original code for SCCS under the Caldera license? In particular, is there a URL where it's available? Or should someone wishing to work with SCCS files use GNU CSSC? Thanks, Arnold

20 years, 3 months

Question for the List Manager/Owner

by Gregg C Levine

Hello from Gregg C Levine Question: Will the list server drop subscribers, if they have not posted anything to the list? Or are other reasons taken into circumstances? Consider this, for any number of reasons, two of my e-mail addresses for this ISP are subscribed to this list, some time ago a posting arrived at Address #2, but Address #1 didn't receive it. Repeated queries to the list server's management site, didn't provide me with my password, nor did entering what I thought it was when I first subscribed to it, succeed. However my first clew that something was up, happened when it accepted my requests to rejoin it. So when you have the time to look into the matter, can you investigate. FYI, the address in doubt is this one. ------------------- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net ------------------------------------------------------------ "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi

20 years, 4 months

UNIX tools updated

by Jose R. Valverde

I just noticed this site by a posting on Groklaw.net: http://heirloom.sourceforge.net/ I don't remember having seen it here before, and I believe it is worth a look. The Heirloom Toolchest is a collection of standard Unix utilities derived from legacy Caldera-released sources and brought up to date to a number of versions (SVID3, SVID4, POSIX, 4BSD) with support for UTF-8 and other enhancements. j -- These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first! José R. Valverde De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural -- These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first! José R. Valverde De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural

20 years, 5 months

test

by Wm.G.McGrath

test two

20 years, 5 months

test

by Wm.G.McGrath

This is just a test. [Groan] There may be others. [GROAN] Results will be posted on the bulletin board. b.

20 years, 5 months

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TUHS