> I've found the documentation for most of the major
> troff preprocessors and macros packages, but I can't
> seem to find anything but occasional references to a
> paper on the "Programmer's Memorandum Macros" (troff -mm)
> by Smith and Mashey.
Try asking on the groff mailing list, they have been very active lately,
built a new macro package even.
groff(a)gnu.org
--
---
Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.comhttp://www.bitkeeper.com
Please, forgive me. I profusely apologize for all the inconveniences. It's
been fixed now.
I am sorry, I have been busy with lectures and travels and had forgotten the
issue until I finally found time tonight to re-check TUHS on this account. To
top it off my home computer broke and I only bought a new one yesterday.
Be assured I blushed when I saw my mistake and it has been the first thing
I've done.
I'll try not to leave TUHS for so long again. Promise.
j
On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 18:12:02 +0000
Z Sztrprszkolwia <sztrprszkolwia(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi!
>
> A couple of weeks ago you gave this address in the TUHS list, for tape
> images of BSD:
>
> J. R. Valverde wrote:
>
> >I have made a fair number of virtual machines myself. May it's time to set them
> >free. Look into
> >
> > ftp://ftp.es.embnet.org/pub/misc/emul/images/
> >
> >for some of them.
> >
>
> Unfortunately, when I log in as anonymous the directories are listed as
> drwxrwx--- (no permision whatsoever for 'others') and I can't download
> your simhs :((
> I'm quite interested in playing with them, could you give others r-x
> permisions? Thanks :))
Please, forgive me. I profusely apologize for all the inconveniences. It's
been fixed now.
I am sorry, I have been busy with lectures and travels and had forgotten the
issue until I finally found time tonight to re-check TUHS on this account.
Be assured I blushed when I saw my mistake and it has been the first thing
I've done.
I'll try not to leave TUHS for so long again. Promise.
j
On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 18:12:02 +0000
Z Sztrprszkolwia <sztrprszkolwia(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi!
>
> A couple of weeks ago you gave this address in the TUHS list, for tape
> images of BSD:
>
> J. R. Valverde wrote:
>
> >I have made a fair number of virtual machines myself. May it's time to set them
> >free. Look into
> >
> > ftp://ftp.es.embnet.org/pub/misc/emul/images/
> >
> >for some of them.
> >
>
> Unfortunately, when I log in as anonymous the directories are listed as
> drwxrwx--- (no permision whatsoever for 'others') and I can't download
> your simhs :((
> I'm quite interested in playing with them, could you give others r-x
> permisions? Thanks :))
I feel just a little bit stupid for not figuring them out sooner, but smart in
being able to figure them out on my own.
Some of you may remember a post I wrote some time ago, dealing with E11
(Ersatz-11) and the RL02 v7 image. I mentioned not being able to get out of
single-user mode, and being unable to view man pages.
Well, as it turns out, I stumbled across the method of getting to multi-user
mode. ^D, imagine that. Dropping out of single-user mode starts multi-user
mode. That's not something I would have been able to use logic to figure out.
And, well, I happened to notice that there was no temp directory, so no wonder
man couldn't create its temp file. A quick little 'mkdir tmp' and that
problem was fixed. Now, that was something I was able to figure out
logically.
Of course, now my problem is that the console is presumed to be a TTY and not
a CRT terminal. And so, man pages just scroll right up and off the screen. Oh
well. I'm sure I'll figure out something. Eventually.
>
> I was not expecting termcap or curses; I was.. *hoping* (still not expecting)
> that perhaps v7 was new enough that the 'simple' type of CRT terminals, the
> ones that were basically just glass TTYs, were in common use. That it would
> be possible to use stty to set the number of rows to n, and that just maybe
> there would be a 'more' command that would only printout the next n lines.
> You know, simple stuff. Nothing about cursor addressable displays, no special
> codes for clearing the screen, or text attributes, just screen paging. At any
> rate, I may sit down at some point and write a 'more' utility of my own. Not
> that I need it for man pages now that I have the offline version of the
> manual, but there are still things like long directory listings that it would
> be useful for.
Actually, termcap and vi was ported back to V7 very early in the piece,
though you needed an ID space processor (aka PDP11/45/50/55/70) to run vi.
There were several paging programs about, some using termcap. From memory
there was dis, pg and more. The man command didn't do any pagination
Cheers
John
Hi Everyone,
I'm having a bit of fun getting P11 up on redhat. Has anyone got a copy
of AS11 that they could send me as I want to rebuild everything
including the boot rom to make sure that I've got it as right as I can.
Cheers
Robin
--
Robin Birch
> Unfortunately the autoconfig stuff has /unix hard coded into
> it and will only look for this file.
Thanks, guys, for the answer. I've got to admit that I'm disappointed.
If you have to decide, before the old system goes down, via a series of
moves or copies or hard links or whatever, which kernel you're going to use
the next time the system comes up, then it doesn't seem all that useful.
I guess if I build a kernel that just doesn't work at all, I can always
boot the old kernel far enough to get to single user mode where I can remove
the dud /unix, put the old one back, and then reboot. That's something.
Anyway, if that's the way it is, then that's the way it is :-) Thanks
again.
Bob
Hello,
I'm interested in acquring an AT&T 3b2 computer. One of these systems
used to run a famous public UNIX system "killer". They also run #5ess
telephone switches, however the OS is different in that case
(DMERT/UNIX-RTR instead of whatever the consumer-level 3b2 runs).
If anyone has information on where to acquire these (I saw the recent
discussion on 3b1s and I know they are more prolific than 3b2s-- infact
a friend of mine used to have a UNIX PC which we set up a BBS on).
Thanks.
Jonathan Stuart, CISSP /"\ ASCII Ribbon
Software Engineer \ / Campaign
Pegasus Solutions, Inc. X against HTML
/ \ email & vCards
I was wondering how I can turn the provided TAR files of 2.9BSD into a
proper tape image for use with an emulator? Is a premade emu-friendly
install tape available? I don't have either a real '11 or a physical
tape drive on my computer?
Hi, all!
I just dug into sed.h from 32V version of sed:
gcc can't parse the following code:
union reptr {
struct reptr1 {
char *ad1;
char *ad2;
char *re1;
char *rhs;
FILE *fcode;
char command;
char gfl;
char pfl;
char inar;
char negfl;
};
struct reptr2 {
char *ad1;
char *ad2;
union reptr *lb1;
char *rhs;
FILE *fcode;
char command;
char gfl;
char pfl;
char inar;
char negfl;
};
} ptrspace[PTRSIZE], *rep;
Does anyone know current form of that, or how to force this
to compile and work?
Thanks a lot!
S.
> If I remember correctly, all of the "real" members of the 3B family
> (i.e. 3B2, 3B5, 3B15 and 3B20) shared a common "virtual"
> instruction set called (I think) IS25 - it was the job of the assembler
> to translate IS25 into the actual machine code for the specific
> processor used in each machine.
> IS25 was a little curious because it only defined those instructions
> that were likely to be of use to the C compiler - thus there was a
> "push" instruction so that the compiler could push function arguments
> onto the stack, but no "pop" instruction because the C compiler
> never generated it.
IS25: just so. I managed to retrieve the scanned PDF for
the manual for this virtual instruction set. It's an
internal memo, but I'll send it if anyone asks. It's
2.8MB of page images and is 108 pages long.
The memories of Lindsly and Lowenstein are also apposite.
AT&T donated quite a few machines (3B20 and 3B2) to universities,
and though they appreciated the thought, there were
various drawbacks--the gift didn't include maintenance, for
example.
Dennis
Duncan Anderson asks:
> Thanks for that bit of information. I had been under the impression that it
> was V3. Is the lack of streams the main difference between the 2 and 3? If
> there is no streams interface, can the machine be part of a TCP/IP network?
SVR3 also added shared libraries and RFS. As for TCP/IP the popular
implementation was from Wollongong. But wouldn't you need ethernet
hardware support too? It's been a long time but I only remember
StarLAN hardware for it.
> I'm interested in acquring an AT&T 3b2 computer. One of these systems
> used to run a famous public UNIX system "killer". They also run #5ess
> telephone switches, however the OS is different in that case
> (DMERT/UNIX-RTR instead of whatever the consumer-level 3b2 runs).
> If anyone has information on where to acquire these (I saw the recent
> discussion on 3b1s and I know they are more prolific than 3b2s-- infact
> a friend of mine used to have a UNIX PC which we set up a BBS on).
The 3B2 was not the same machine as the one in 5ESS, which
was/is the 3B20D, a fairly large duplexed machine (two processors
that mutually checked each other). The 3B2 was a desktop.
The 3B20D wasn't sold commercially, as far as I know. There
was a 3B20S (multi-cabinet) that at least nominally
was commercially available.
Their ISAs were not quite the same, but some assembler language
tricks made the assembler-level languages look quite similar.
Dennis
>I think it's System V Release 3.0 or thereabout
Basically the same machine was also sold as the 3b1; the difference
between the 7300 and the 3b1 is that the 3b1 has room for a taller
hard disk drive.
I think the OS would best be characterized as SVR2 with the addition
of the 4.1bsd VM system ("real" SVR2 had no demand paged VM) and the
further addition of its own unique approach to shared libraries.
It's definitely not SVR3; no "STREAMS".
Greetings
I wonder if anyone on this list has any idea where I can find some information
regarding the AT+T PC7300? I have one, but it seems that the power supply has
problems. In any case, it is designed for a lower voltage than what we have
here, namely 220V 50Hz.
I should like to know if it is possible to get schematic diagrams for the
power supply so that I can get an electronics engineer friend to have a go at
redesigning it.
Am I barking up the wrong tree?
regards
Duncan
___________________________________________________________
Win a BlackBerry device from O2 with Yahoo!. Enter now. http://www.yahoo.co.uk/blackberry
Hello,
On my FreeBSD/i386 host, I was unable to extract the "rootdump"
file of the 4.4BSD-Alpha distribution available on Minnie.
Fortunately, I succeeded on my NetBSD/vax machine, even though
its version of NetBSD is far older than FreeBSD 5.3 which is
what I have on the i386.
The VAX "restore" program mentioned something about quad-
swapping, so perhaps FreeBSD's "restore" does not translate
the byte order. I think the 4.4BSD distribution is from a
big-endian machine ("hp300"). It's funny, then, that I was
sure that *at least* byte-order could *not* be the problem
since both the i386 and VAX are little-endian and I was sure
the 4.4BSD distribution was a VAX one!
After extracting the rootdump, I created a .tar file instead
and uploaded it to minnie.tuhs.org:/incoming, file name
bsd44a-shoppa-rootdump.tar. You may wish to compress it and
move it to the same directory as the other 4.4BSD-Alpha files
so others won't have to go through the trouble I experienced.
Regards,
A. Wik
I just received this from a friend. The format was heavily >>>>>>'d, so I've
cleaned it up a bit. The information about who said what is vague.
Warren
From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
To: UNIX Heritage Society <tuhs(a)tuhs.org>
Subject: PDP-11 and PDP-10s in Holland
From a discussion on a FreeBSD mailing list:
On Thu, Feb 02, 2006 at 01:05:16PM -0800, Matthew Jacob wrote..
>>>>>>> I forgot- the world premier PDP-11 site is in .nl.
>>>>> http://www.pdp-11.nl/
Wilko Bulte then wrote:
>>>> I am sure you will also appreciate Geert's museum at:
>>>> http://www.xs4all.nl/~geerol/
>>>> Geert is a friend of mine with a *big* farm house :)
Then Matthew Jacob wrote:
>> see also:
>> http://aceware.iinet.net.au/acms/default.htm
>> They also have a full KL10 (PDP10 (!)) that seems to not be in the list..
>> see: http://aceware.iinet.net.au/acms/EventDetail.asp?lngEventId=48
From a discussion on a FreeBSD mailing list:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 14:09:34 -0800, Julian Elischer wrote:
> Matthew Jacob wrote:
>> Yeah!
>>
>> On Thu, 2 Feb 2006, Wilko Bulte wrote:
>>> On Thu, Feb 02, 2006 at 01:05:16PM -0800, Matthew Jacob wrote..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I forgot- the world premier PDP-11 site is in .nl.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it? Which one do you mean?
>>>>
>>>> http://www.pdp-11.nl/
>>>
>>> Ah.
>>>
>>> I am sure you will also appreciate Geert's museum at:
>>>
>>> http://www.xs4all.nl/~geerol/
>>>
>>> Geert is a friend of mine with a *big* farm house :)
>
> see also:
> http://aceware.iinet.net.au/acms/default.htm
>
> They also have a full KL10 (PDP10 (!)) that seems to not be in the list..
> see: http://aceware.iinet.net.au/acms/EventDetail.asp?lngEventId=48
--
Finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005, Markus E Leypold wrote:
> I wonder, wether you realize that getting pcc "ready" would mean
> writing a x86 backend for it. Or does it already have one?
>From what I heard it does, unless I misremembered...
-uso.
On 2005-Nov-14 10:45:13 -0500, Brantley Coile <brantley(a)coraid.com> wrote:
>> This is fairly wasteful of RAM. Keep in mind that V6 cannot page -
>> a process is either entirely in memory or entirely on disk. If you
>> limit yourself to 640K RAM, you are probably restricting yourself
>> to about 6 resident processes. And swapping means moving 64K of
>> data to/from disk.
>
>true, but your numbers are a bit off. 640k / 64k = 10 not 6.
I realise that.
> the kernel will take only 2, so you should have 8.
I was assuming split I+D, with the data segment fixed at 64K. This
means that you have (64K + code) per process. If you have code plus
data in 64K then you can fit more, but I think that was getting to
be a squeeze even on V6. (And would definitely write off something
like 2BSD).
>the mit x86 stuff would be where i'd start. i haven't looked to see
>if you need to tweak the assignment operators to avoid having
>to s/=+/+=/, but it might already be done.
Given an open-source compiler, it would be fairly easy to retrofit the
=+ operators into the lexer. (Probably easier than cleaning up the
code). The alternative is to start with something later (eg 2BSD) but
code quality then becomes far more of an issue (because 2BSD tends to
push the I-space limits in lots of areas).
>it's all 16 bit stuff: port of PCC, assembler and loader.
The x86 instruction set and registers are nothing like as regular and
orthogonal as the PDP-11. In particular, there are _no_ general
purpose registers - every register has has a particular purpose and
either you need to do data-flow analysis to work out what register to
load something into, or you (basically) give up and load from memory
as needed. You could port PCC but this would be much more difficult
than (say) a M68K port. You'd probably need a fairly decent peep-hole
optimiser to get good results.
Wesley Parish mentioned bcc and OpenWatcom. I looked into the former
and it's probably the best starting point (though, with due respect to
BDE, the code it generates could be better). Assuming that Unix fits
into the C subset implemented by bcc, you'd be better off spending the
effort on improving bcc than porting PCC. At the time I looked,
OpenWatcom was either still vapourware or not self-hosting.
>an enjoyable discussion. wish i had time to work on it.
Agreed.
--
Peter Jeremy
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I've thought, since there doesn't seem to be a working "V6on286", maybe I
should try porting it myself though I'm not very familiar with the Ancient
Unix sources or with the ancient C used. The oldest compiler I've got
that will compile is Turbo C++ 1.01 from 1990 and it's an ANSI C compiler.
(I do think it'll compile late K&R, but there's weirdnesses in the C used
by V6.)
Having an emulator like QEMU handy is a nice plus. I could prolly build
everything onto a 1.44 MB disk image and boot it in emulation. I'm
thinking I'd want to create tools for transferring files into and out of
disk images, and a bootloader to put on the first sector of the disk
(though, 512 bytes is awful small...)
Any ideas?
-uso.
Brantley Coile:
i don't know that it's a squese. a version of v6 ran on an lsi-11
with very little ram.
=======
If you're thinking of Mini-UNIX, it's a bit of a stretch to call
it `V6 running on an LSI-11.' I think the original LSI-11 had no
memory management; in any case, Mini-UNIX didn't use it, but was
a throwback to the early days of the PDP-7 and the 11/20 (neither
of which had memory management). Only one process could be in
memory at a time; to let another process run meant swapping the
first completely out of memory.
I believe there's a paper in the 1978 all-UNIX issue of the Bell
Systems Technical Journal about Mini-UNIX or its immediate
predecessor. As I recall, there were additional compromises;
e.g. the shell quietly translated
a | b
to
a >tempfile; b <tempfile; rm tempfile
because that was much faster than the thrashing that often
resulted from trying to let a and b run concurrently.
Mini-UNIX might be a simpler starting point to get a system
running on a 286. Just don't think of it as full V6; it's not.
Norman Wilson
Toronto ON
Hi all,
here at freaknet medialab we made some images of our
RL02 disk packs with RT-11 and GAMMA-11 software
(specific for a Nuclear Camera, this pdp-11 was used
for medical exams) :)
those images are very funny, we can use them under
simh emulator! :)
So, now that we have the backups, we're wondering about
installing UNIX in this pdp11/34.
what can we install? any hint ?
please help! :)
p.s. something about our restoration and the disk image of
our rt-11 system is online at http://zaverio.net/pdp11, under
the "stuff" directory. :)
--
[ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ]
[ http://freaknet.org/asbestohttp://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ]
[ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ]
[ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ]
Sorry for my previous aborted message. I'm using
webmail which is an alien sort of thing to me.
What I wanted to say is that you may as well let them
'telnet' to the PDP11-2.11BSD through SSH.
I mean, you may have the PDP behind a firewall with
all
ports blocked, and another machine (linux, *bsd,
whatever) with SSH open.
Then all that would be needed is that your friend uses
an
SSH tunnel to the telnet port of the PDP.
For instance, let's say you open an account for your
friend on the intermediate machine: s/he may use this
machine to forward one of his local ports (say 2300)
to
port 23 on the PDP11 system (say
pdp11-2bsd.example.net) as
ssh -L 2300:pdp11-2bsd.example.net:23 hop.example.net
This would forward his local port 2300 to port 23
of pdp11-2bsd.example.net, using the host
hop.example.net as an intermediate SSH step.
Then all that your friend needs to do is issue a
telnet localhost 2300
and that would connect him to the telnet port of the
PDP11 using SSH.
If s/he uses windows, most SSH clients have a port
forwarding tool that makes introducing this
information
very easy.
So, to sumamrize:
- you open an account on an intermediate host that has
SSH
- your friend creates a tunnel from his own computer
to
the PDP using the intermediate host with his
user/pswd.
- your friend telnets his/her own local computer at
the
chosen port
All communications will be encrypted between his/her
computer and the intermediate host, and go in the
clear
between the intermediate host and the PDP.
If the intermediate host is behind a firewall, then
that would be no problem.
j
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