Actually what I meant Gregg was Jon Pertwee was the Doctor back in the
'60s which is the time period you were referring to, and Troughton too I
guess. That reminds me of an episode called "The time..." something or other
with Roger Delgado. They were trying to do something with some type of
computer obviously an old mini of some type and some anciet artifact. There
were toggle switches and lights. Otherwise it certainly didn't look like and
PDP that I've ever seen in pictures. Just to get close to one of those old
things would be breathtaking. Before my time though.
Bill
Hello!
I have here a Doctor Who book which takes place during the early part of the
computer revolution, about the time the whole of what's discussed here
happened. The people concerned in the book have machines running UNIX. Some
of these are indeed PDP-11s and there are also a few DG Eclipses.
Now the question: How difficult would it to port UNIX V7 from the usual
machine, probably a PDP-11/43 (But I might be wrong about the model!) to a
DG Eclipse? Naturally since I don't have physical hardware here, the
intended target would be a SIMH DG virtual Eclipse (Or even a Nova 4) and
the one doing all the work would be a SIMH PDP-11.
--
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net
"The Force will be with you. Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
Hi Bent Lee,
you asked for help
>
>I need help with the V6 kernel compilation. I read the Unix setup guide
>and the
>file /usr/sys/run. I've seen one problem so far with the /usr/sys/run
>file. That is
>that the two lib files (lib1 & lib2) did not contain any symbols.
>
>When I ran:
># ar r ../lib1
>and
># ar r ../lib2
>
>I got a string of error messages from ld.
which error messages?
>
>But after I did this:
># ar r ../lib1 *.o
>and
># ar r ../lib2 *.o
This might have corrupted your lib files. These two lines are only meant as
templates to replace some files in your archives, that is lib[12], if necessary.
But replacing an object file is necessary only if you changed the corresponding
source file and recompiled it.
Here are the files supposed to be in lib1:
# ar t lib1
main.o
alloc.o
iget.o
prf.o
rdwri.o
slp.o
subr.o
text.o
trap.o
sig.o
sysent.o
clock.o
fio.o
malloc.o
nami.o
pipe.o
sys1.o
sys2.o
sys3.o
sys4.o
>
>I have these missing symbols
># ld -x l.o m40.o c.o ../lib1 ../lib2
>Undefined:
>_end (defined by ld if successful)
>_edata (same)
>_iinit (from alloc.c)
>_iget (from iget.c)
replace lib1 and lib2 with the original files and it should work!
You might want to consult
http://www.ba-stuttgart.de/~helbig/os/script/chapt1.1
for help installing V6.
Regards,
Wolfgang
--
"Dijkstra is right, but you don't say such things!"
(A less courageous programmer)
Hi All
I need help with the V6 kernel compilation. I read the Unix setup guide
and the
file /usr/sys/run. I've seen one problem so far with the /usr/sys/run
file. That is
that the two lib files (lib1 & lib2) did not contain any symbols.
When I ran:
# ar r ../lib1
and
# ar r ../lib2
I got a string of error messages from ld.
But after I did this:
# ar r ../lib1 *.o
and
# ar r ../lib2 *.o
I have these missing symbols
# ld -x l.o m40.o c.o ../lib1 ../lib2
Undefined:
_end
_edata
_iinit
_iget
_update
_schar
_namei
_maknode
_access
_itrunc
_iput
_alloc
_uchar
_closef
_getf
Can anyone help me with this?
(I saw that MIT athena has a V6 repository with a Makefile in it
But I cannot access it at all. (-_-) )
thanks
bent lee
I would start with the gears first. Stepper motor
testing can be done by visual inpection by running
through 1 character at a time. Mark each turn when
moving to the next character. This requires diassembly
of the casing and other visual blocking components.
John
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> 1. weird problem with our Decwriter III terminal
> ... (asbesto)
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 09:38:10 +0000
> From: asbesto <asbesto(a)freaknet.org>
> Subject: [TUHS] weird problem with our Decwriter III
> terminal ...
> To: tuhs(a)tuhs.org
> Message-ID: <20060621093810.GA24010(a)freaknet.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> Hi,
>
> maybe someone here can help us - our problem is that
> the
> decwriter terminal seem to "jump" in particular
> positions
> when printing
>
> we don't understand how to solve this problem -
> maybe this is a
> stepper motor problem, or another problem in
> gears/transmission?
>
> the problem is evident in this image:
>
>
http://dyne.org/museum/dec/terminals/la120/tn/dscn3488.jpg.html
>
> does someone have an idea about this problem?
> tnx!
>
> :)
>
> --
> [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab :
> radiocybernet : poetry ]
> [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto
> http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ]
> [ NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LETTERE ACCENTATE, NON
> MANDARMI ALLEGATI ]
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> M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ]
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
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> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>
>
> End of TUHS Digest, Vol 32, Issue 15
> ************************************
>
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Hi,
maybe someone here can help us - our problem is that the
decwriter terminal seem to "jump" in particular positions
when printing
we don't understand how to solve this problem - maybe this is a
stepper motor problem, or another problem in gears/transmission?
the problem is evident in this image:
http://dyne.org/museum/dec/terminals/la120/tn/dscn3488.jpg.html
does someone have an idea about this problem?
tnx!
:)
--
[ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ]
[ http://freaknet.org/asbestohttp://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ]
[ NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LETTERE ACCENTATE, NON MANDARMI ALLEGATI ]
[ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ]
Probably this is documented somewhere, but I really need a pointer or a
brief tutorial on the major/minor device numbers for mknod() and the device
names for MSCP drives in 2.11bsd.
If I have a really simple PDP with an RQDXn and one RDxx disk, then the
device name is conventionally /dev/ra0x and the first partition, ra0a is
(5,0), the second, ra0b, is (5,1), etc. Pretty easy.
If I have two drives on my single RQDXn, then the second hard disk is
/dev/ra1 and ra1a is (5,8), ra1b is (5,9), etc. I guess the offset of 8
must be the maximum number of partitions on a drive - OK, I'm still with
you.
But what if I have a second MSCP controller? Assuming that I've built the
kernel to handle it and modified dtab to autoconfigure it, that is. What
are the usual names and mknod() numbers for the drives on the second
controller?
Worse, what if the MSCP controller isn't a RQDX but is a real UDA/QDA ?
Now the drives have their own MSCP unit numbers that can be anything from 0
to 250 - where does this figure in?
Same question for TMSCP - what if I have more than one tape controller?
This case is easier, though, since TMSCP controllers normally have only one
drive associated with them.
Thanks,
Bob Armstrong
> The bandwidth of a mouse and menus is not very high. The bandwidth of a
> keyboard is a lot higher.
I've long thought that what we needed was control panel which operated on
revision controlled flat files in /etc. So you could write scripts to
do the automated stuff but you could point and click to do the stuff that
you forgot how to do.
--
---
Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.comhttp://www.bitkeeper.com
whilst looking around the bitsavers.org pdf archive, I
found a document called
PreliminaryUnixImplementationDocument_Jun72.pdf.
Having had a quick scan through, it contains a source
code listing and some commentary (lions i hear you
say). The strange thing is that all of the source code
appears to be in assembler...
whats this about?
is it a comentary of PDP-7 unix?
regards
Martin
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On 6/15/06, Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, 14 June 2006 at 16:24:29 -0700, Martin Lovick wrote:
> > whilst looking around the bitsavers.org pdf archive, I found a
> > document called PreliminaryUnixImplementationDocument_Jun72.pdf.
>
> Can you give a full URL for this document? I've taken a brief look at
> the list in http://bitsavers.org/pdf/, but nothing jumped out at me.
< http://bitsavers.org/pdf/bellLabs/unix/PreliminaryUnixImplementationDocumen…
>
carl
--
carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego
clowenst(a)ucsd.edu
Martin Lovick remarked,
> whilst looking around the bitsavers.org pdf archive, I
> found a document called
> PreliminaryUnixImplementationDocument_Jun72.pdf.
> Having had a quick scan through, it contains a source
> code listing and some commentary (lions i hear you
> say). The strange thing is that all of the source code
> appears to be in assembler...
> whats this about?
> is it a comentary of PDP-7 unix?
It is a fairly early version, with commentary, of PDP-11 Unix (the kernel),
indeed still in assembler. It is an interesting find, probably
the earliest version yet unearthed. Kossow told me about
it when he did (or got) the scan of the document.
I can't remember receiving it at the time.
It is clearly different from what we in the research
group were running at the time--it has devices we didn't have,
and I think by then we were on the 11/45.
Dennis
This is a long New York Times article with a lot of detail.
They say there'll be at least one public open house before it's
demolished. I think you can now read a limited number of NY Times
articles without subscribing (they seem to count how many you read
-- maybe with a cookie). Here's the URL:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/14/realestate/commercial/14bell.html
Jerry
--
Jerry Peek, jpeek(a)jpeek.com, http://www.jpeek.com/
Hi,
last week a work mate told us a tale about how Unix came to its
name. He believes that Unix is named after the term eunuch (a
homophone of (to?) unix in english language). One can see Unix as a
castrated successor of Multics. Hmmm, I am interested in Unix history
for several years now, but I haven't heard about that before. It is
really a tale I guess. Any clear words about this topic?
Michael
--
biff4emacsen - A biff-like tool for (X)Emacs
http://www.c0t0d0s0.de/biff4emacsen/biff4emacsen.html
Hi,
"Bill Cunningham" <billcu1(a)verizon.net> writes:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Welle" <m.welle(a)gmx.net>
> To: <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org>
> Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 9:57 AM
> Subject: [TUHS] Unix, eunuchs?
>
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> last week a work mate told us a tale about how Unix came to its
>> name. He believes that Unix is named after the term eunuch (a
>> homophone of (to?) unix in english language). One can see Unix as a
>> castrated successor of Multics. Hmmm, I am interested in Unix history
>> for several years now, but I haven't heard about that before. It is
>> really a tale I guess. Any clear words about this topic?
>>
>> Michael
>>
>
> I know Dennis have said pretty clearly that Unix is a pun on Multics
> that the team really never got to start on because Bell changed there minds.
> Ken continued with Unix which must've been his idea. In assembly first then
> B. Dennis came up with C and its lasted down through the years.
that sounds familiar to me. The same story is told in 'A quarter
century of Unix' and other sources.
VG
hmw
--
biff4emacsen - A biff-like tool for (X)Emacs
http://www.c0t0d0s0.de/biff4emacsen/biff4emacsen.html
> There's a reason Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson have been awarded
> the U.S. National Medal of Technology (1998) and are fellows of the
> Computer History Museum Online. Dave Cutler hasn't and isn't.
> "You are not expected to understand this."
And while I think this is a little unfair to Dave that's a great .sig
It goes well with the recent post about Unix vs NT that concluded about
NT "there is no there there". I live on both platforms and I couldn't
agree more.
Some day I'll post my view on this but here is the really short summary.
There are two classes of people: those who derive answers and those who
memorize them. As Mark Twain said, the latter group is much larger than
the former. My claim is that Unix appeals to the first group - you can
guess what it is going to do and you'll be right most of the time.
Windows appeals to the other group. They don't have the ability to derive
any answer and they are comfortable with a system that mostly works but
has "no there there". They can't tell the difference.
The sad part (and the good part!) is that all of us on this list are
in the former group which is smaller. I think we (well, many of us)
wish that more people thought like we do and figured stuff out for
themselves but the reality is that most people aren't inclined to do that.
So the good and bad part is that we're a small select group. Personally,
I've come to accept that and like it. I've gotten to the point where I
realize that people who can derive the answer are special, they are gift,
and I consider myself lucky when I run into a concentrated group of them.
Cough, cough, that would be you. :)
--
---
Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.comhttp://www.bitkeeper.com
A great read Greg and so true too. Thanks for posting that.
I particularly liked the bit about the overheard conversation in Palo Alto
"there used to be a shrimp-and-pasta plate here under ten bucks. Let me
see...cat menu | grep shrimp | test -lt $10..." though not syntactically
correct (and less-than-scintillating conversation), a diner from an NT shop
probably couldn't have expressed himself as casually.
This reminded me of a time not so long ago when I was seated in Starbucks in
Menlo Park enjoying my Caramel Macchiato Venti and overhearing a heated
debate between 6 or 7 guys about the GUI vs. command line issue. It seemed
to start when a couple of guys in one party, seemingly unknown to the other
party, who were talking about kde, rudely butted in to their conversation.
Anyway the debate got so verbal that in the end they were all ushered out of
Starbucks in an effort to keep the peace. How funny it was.
Cheers,
Berny
A somewhat different view on the Starbucks story:
A friend of mine moved here from New Mexico (which is a fantastic place to
live, amazing, I used to live there) and she said "It's unbelievable - you
can watch people and realize that they are actually thinking before they
are talking".
Indeed. I'd rather be in the midst of rude people thinking than any sort
of people not thinking.
--
---
Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.comhttp://www.bitkeeper.com
Berny:
This reminded me of a time not so long ago when I was seated in Starbucks in
Menlo Park enjoying my Caramel Macchiato Venti and overhearing a heated
debate between 6 or 7 guys about the GUI vs. command line issue. It seemed
to start when a couple of guys in one party, seemingly unknown to the other
party, who were talking about kde, rudely butted in to their conversation.
Anyway the debate got so verbal that in the end they were all ushered out of
Starbucks in an effort to keep the peace. How funny it was.
=======
The Linux crowd is indeed ruder and more argumentative than the
hackers of my youth.
Maybe it's because they hang out in Starbucks, rather than in
all-night terminal rooms with Coke machines down the hall.
Or maybe it's just my memory.
Norman Wilson
Toronto ON
Somewhat more than 30 years into the disease
Hi,
I know that this mail is going to hit moderation.
May work email address has changed from
P.A.Osborne(a)ukc.ac.uk
to
P.A.Osborne(a)kent.ac.uk
Consequently my posts are getting moderated.
Can you update the list please?
Many thanks
Paul
>
> 1. Re: Unix, eunuchs? (dmr(a)plan9.bell-labs.com)
> 2. Unix V6 man pages (Wolfgang Helbig)
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 22:32:46 -0400
> From: dmr(a)plan9.bell-labs.com
> Subject: Re: [TUHS] Unix, eunuchs?
> To: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org
> Message-ID:
>
<49d52b2057749338fb3bb8d01ec2ca7d(a)plan9.bell-labs.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Andrzey wrote:
>
> >I have taken my info about unics from
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unics .
> >
> >Perhaps You could comment on this, because Your
> person is mentioned there.
> >
>
> Don't believe everything in a (or the) wiki.
>
> >BTW One cound abbreviate "Uniplexed Information and
> Computer System" as
> >UNIACS .
>
> One could, but wouldn't.
>
> Dennis
>
>
Thanks for clearing it up Dennis.
John
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On Jun 8 2006, 17:15, asbesto wrote:
>
> 1) we lack the power supply of the 11/23 cpu. From the
> schematics, we see that only +5V, +12V and -12V are required,
> so we will try to use a normal PC power supply for the QBUS
> backplane; does somebody know about problems in doing this?
Is it missing or just not working? It's hard to imagine a BA11-N box
like the one in your picture without the PSU, since the screws that
hold the front panel onto the backplane go through the PSU cover. If
it's simply not working, it's not usually hard to repair.
You will need to ensure that the BDCOK H (Bus DC OK, active high)
signal is held high, also the BPOK H (Bus Power OK, active high, from
the AC input) signal or the CPU won't run -- the normal PSU does this.
"High" means tied to no less than 3.5V DC. The PSU also provides a
mains-frequency square-wave at about 3.5V-4V which drives the BEVENT L
line for a real-time clock interrupt, which Unix needs. One of the
switches on the front panel can be configured to control this (there
are times when you might want to switch it off). Note that devices
that turn off BEVENT, including the switch on the front panel, or the
DIP switch on the CPU card, do it by shorting that line to ground! The
same switch that can be configured to stop the BEVENT signal, is also
often used to control the rack's power controller via a 3-wire cable
with a 3-pin AMP Mate-N-Lok connector on each end.
The front panel with the three switches also has a flip-flop controlled
by one of the switches, connected to the BHALT L line, and another
connected by a flip-flop to BINIT L. The first halts the CPU when
enabled (active low), the other provides a pulse to start it.
The RUN light on the panel is driven by the SRUN L signal on the first
slot in the backplane.
Most of the signals I've mentioned are carried between the backplane
and the panel by a narrow ribbon cable. The backplane pinout is shown
in a PostScript file called QBusConnsBig.ps on my web page at
http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/PDP-11/
QBusConns.ps is the same file, but actual size, if you want to hold it
up against the backplane.
> 2) what kind of UNIX can be run on an 11/23 using a RL02 disk
> drive? (just one, unfortunately :!)
Nothing later than about 7th Edition, because BSD needs separate I&D
space, which an 11/23 doesn't have (2.9 BSD might work, I can't
remember). BSD (any version) is much too big for a single RL02 anyway.
7th Edition works; my original PDP-11 Unix system is my second 11/23,
still in its original condition, which looks rather like yours, except
it has two RL02s and a slightly earlier front panel. Be aware that the
RL11/RLV11/RLV12 driver was not a standard feature of 7th Edition,
though.
You ought to do an inventory of the cards. 7th Edition wants at least
256K of memory. You might also want to see what version of the CPU you
have.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
asbesto <asbesto(a)freaknet.org> wrote:
> 1) we lack the power supply of the 11/23 cpu. From the
> schematics, we see that only +5V, +12V and -12V are required,
> so we will try to use a normal PC power supply for the QBUS
> backplane; does somebody know about problems in doing this?
Off the top of my head, two thoughts:
1. You need the DCOK and POK signals.
2. Do the math and make sure that your power supply provides enough
amps -- a real computer needs quite a bit more juice than a sleazy
PeeCee.
MS
Hi dudes,
We recovered an almost working pdp-11/23 and some other stuff
for our computer museum. Some images are online at
http://dyne.org/museum :)
well, 2 questions:
1) we lack the power supply of the 11/23 cpu. From the
schematics, we see that only +5V, +12V and -12V are required,
so we will try to use a normal PC power supply for the QBUS
backplane; does somebody know about problems in doing this?
2) what kind of UNIX can be run on an 11/23 using a RL02 disk
drive? (just one, unfortunately :!)
that's all folks! *:)
--
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