Hi,
Anyone any info on PDU (Portable Distributed Unix) A one-time
competitor to RFS (the one-time competitor to NFS). I have read
that PDU is releated to the Newcastle connection, but how did it
differ?
Also, is there any relationship between either PDU or RFS and the
Eightth or Nineth edition network file systems (NETA and NETB)?
-Steve
> post-V7 AT&T
> Unices have always been unavailable, at least at any price that I can
> afford on my college student budget. Solaris, however, at least
> started out as an implementation of SVR4 and is freely available. How
> much of System V still lurks inside Solaris 10 (the last version to
> include such traditional workstation elements as CDE and DPS in the X
> server) and how much has been removed in favor of a more GNU-ish
> userland experience? Is Solaris a good way to get a System V
> experience without breaking either the bank or copyright law, or is
> this a hopeless situation?
I purchased a Solaris 8 source media kit from Sun for around $100 back
when they offered it. A lot of files still have headers saying
Proprietary Unpublished AT&T source code or some such. I don't know
how different it is from System V, because I've never been able to
procure a copy of that source. It sure looks like the Solaris 8
userland, at least, is almost pure System V.
Tim Bradshaw <tfb(a)tfeb.org> wrote:
>
> On 28 May 2009, at 18:00, Michael Kerpan wrote:
>
> > Solaris, however, at least
> > started out as an implementation of SVR4 and is freely available.
> > How much of System V still lurks inside Solaris 10 (the last
> > version to include such traditional workstation elements as CDE and
> > DPS in the X server) and how much has been removed in favor of a
> > more GNU-ish userland experience? Is Solaris a good way to get a
> > System V experience without breaking either the bank or copyright
> > law, or is this a hopeless situation?
>
> I never (other than transiently, and even then in various heavily
> bastardised versions such as Masscomps' RTU) used a Sys V Unix other
> than Solaris. However I did live through the SunOS 4 -> Solaris
> transition. My memory of that is that the early Solaris versions
> (2.2?) seemed extremely austere and unpleasant compared with BSD-
> derived systems. Solaris doesn't seem like that now, and in fact when
> I play with BSD derivatives they seem quite austere.
>
> So I would suspect that, no, Solaris is not any kind of good
> representative of what System V was once like. It's not a GNUoid
> userland (who knows what the next release will be like, if there is
> one? OpenSolaris seems to have drifted rapidly off into optimize-the-
> desktop neverland and I hope will not be representative of what the
> next Solaris looks like), but it's no more representative of what
> things were once like than any system still under development is
> representative of what its distant ancestore were like.
>
> (CDE is not a traditional workstation element in any real sense - it's
> pretty recent. I don't think it even existed in the early Solaris 2
> releases.)
To my knowledge, System V is not quite a well defined concept: there
were several releases and each had different features and capabilities.
The closest you can get today to test the flavour of running an early
System V (not a System V Release 4) native on real and affordable/common
hardware, I think would be getting some old Xenix for the 386 (SVR3),
which is floating around some P2P networks (in eMule I know it is).
Legality of getting it this way for personal and non-commercial use?
Depends on your local law, so beware. This Xenix which is on eMule lacks
TCP/IP (it was an add-on package sold separately), lacks the Development
Kit (compiler, headers, etc.; also sold separately), and obviously lacks
the source code. So if you already know Unix, in two days of use maximum
you should have seen all there is to it and be really bored about it.
The Development and Streams/Tcpip kits for this Xenix are also
"available" in some Internet "places", but I have not ventured to try
them because Xenix is a real bitch to live with...
If you want to inspect the source of a somewhat early System V Release
4, in eMule you also have a tar.bz2 file with the sources for Solaris
2.6 (beware, it won't unzip properly on Windows because some files names
are incompatible with Windows filesystem, i.e. "con" filename, etc.).
You won't be able to "run it", but you can inspect the source of a SVR4
which is only 8 years separated from the original SVR4 AT&T release.
And don't forget OpenServer 5.x, which is a UNIX System V Release 3.2
with many custom add-ons. Version 5.0.7 is still supported by it's now
bankrupt mother company, runs on modern Intel PCs, and has the really
old and rusty taste of ancient UNIX.
After trying all that, you would be thankfull for having the GNU userland
and the Linux kernel. That was my bottom line, anyway.
--
Pepe
pepe(a)naleco.com
As a long-time Linux user and a long time Unix history buff, I've been
wanting to "play" with classic Unix variants for quite some time.
Obviously, Research Unix up through V7 and the BSDs are readily
available and I've at least mucked around with them, but post-V7 AT&T
Unices have always been unavailable, at least at any price that I can
afford on my college student budget. Solaris, however, at least
started out as an implementation of SVR4 and is freely available. How
much of System V still lurks inside Solaris 10 (the last version to
include such traditional workstation elements as CDE and DPS in the X
server) and how much has been removed in favor of a more GNU-ish
userland experience? Is Solaris a good way to get a System V
experience without breaking either the bank or copyright law, or is
this a hopeless situation?
Mike
I seem to remember that for System V TCP/IP that you needed
STREAMS first, so that was SVR3. It may have been back potred
but I don't know. And after that, then you had a choice of
Wollongong or Lachman implementations. Bell Labs had their own as well,
but I believe that was only available internally. Amdahl UTS used
Lachman (which I kind of remember might have been Convergent's code),
but at Indian Hill it was removed and the home grown one put in.
I don't know who did the kernel code, but the user land utilities
were BSD ports done by Ralph Knag in Murray Hill. This was an
interesting setup as it was System/370 hardware so it had a
channel to ethernet device from Spartacus, probably a K200 since
there was a "k200" command to fiddle with it. I largely ignored
TCP/IP initially as on the first UTS release, just telneting out of it
used a ton of system CPU, something would loop in the kernel instead of
going to sleep. Besides we had Datakit for interactive connectivity,
and NSC HyperChannel for intra-datacenter file transfer
(which I remember being something like 50mbs in 1987)
For the original SVR4, the official porting base was the 3b2 and that
group from Summit (which was later spun off as Unix Systems Laboraties
(USL)) used Lachman as well for it's TCP/IP.
> I was wondering if anyone had access to any SYSV for the VAX and could
> say what levels support TCP/IP?
>
> I put in a request at http://www.novell.com/licensing/ntap/legal.html
> to see if they are even entertaining the sale of SYSV licenses... But
> I kind of figure they don't have the actual material itself....
>
> I know A/UX a SYSVr2.2 had TCP/IP but I don't know if it was in the
> AT&T base, or if it was something that UniSoft had added...
>
> Anyways thanks for any/all responses....
>
> Oh and FWIW I've gotten a super minimal SYSIII thing booting on SIMH!
> I've just have to work out some more disk formatting/restoring as the
> root partition sizes don't agree between 32v & SYSIII....
>
> Jason
Hi
(Sorry this was supposed to go out on my fairhaven account not my work email.
I do apologies if it comes through twice, still learning kmail!!)
Just out of curiosity, why not host some of the stuff on the tuhs website ? (i
could be wrong and their might be some copy write stuff but if dmr wont
mind ?
Regards,
Angus
On Wednesday 27 May 2009 05:25, Seth Morabito wrote:
> On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Jason Stevens <neozeed(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > I don't know if it's worth mentioning...
> >
> > but it looks like Dennis Ritchie's page is down....
> >
> > http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/who/dmr/
> >
> > At least there is the wayback machine
> > http://web.archive.org/web/20070930200555/http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/who
> >/dmr/
>
> Sadly, the Wayback Machine is now not serving up the page either:
>
> "We're sorry, access to http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/who/dmr/ has been
> blocked by the site owner via robots.txt."
>
> Indeed, the host's robots.txt file has this entry in it toward the bottom:
>
> User-agent: *
> Disallow: /
>
> so I assume that the site has been re-scraped since coming back up,
> and is now no longer made available by the Internet Archive, according
> to their stated policy on robots.txt exclusions.
>
> Just an oversight, I'm sure, but it shows off the fragility of
> information on the web. You cannot trust the Internet Archive to make
> information publicly available forever.
>
> -Seth
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
I was wondering if anyone had access to any SYSV for the VAX and could
say what levels support TCP/IP?
I put in a request at http://www.novell.com/licensing/ntap/legal.html
to see if they are even entertaining the sale of SYSV licenses... But
I kind of figure they don't have the actual material itself....
I know A/UX a SYSVr2.2 had TCP/IP but I don't know if it was in the
AT&T base, or if it was something that UniSoft had added...
Anyways thanks for any/all responses....
Oh and FWIW I've gotten a super minimal SYSIII thing booting on SIMH!
I've just have to work out some more disk formatting/restoring as the
root partition sizes don't agree between 32v & SYSIII....
Jason
Hi,
>> but it looks like Dennis Ritchie's page is down....
>>
>> http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/who/dmr/
it is online again. Thanks to whoever put it back to live!
Wolfgang Helbig
On 20 May 2009, at 05:56, Derek Peschel wrote:
> Interesting question! And related questions -- When did the current
> start of the epoch get chosen? Were there any false starts or early
> changes? (I seem to recall reading about one change, moving forward
> by a year.) And were there ever any dates in the system that couldn't
> be correctly recorded, because the epoch started too late?
The current epoch was choose for the 4th edition, the man page date
is 8/5/73. The first edition's epoch was 00:00:00, Jan. 1, 1971.
This can be obtained from the time(2) man page. Here they are parapharsed,
I like that epoch changed from the second to thrid editions, but the
man page date did not; and the "bugs" line from the 3rd edition is memorable.
v1:
DATE: 11/3/71
DESCRIPTION: time returns the time since 00:00:00, Jan. 1, 1971, measured in sixtieths of a second.
BUGS: The chronological-minded user will note that 2**32 slxtieths of a seeond is only about 2.5 years.
v2:
DATE: 3/15/72
DESCRIPTION: time returns the time since 00:00:00, Jan. 1, 1971, measured in sixtieths of a second.
BUGS: The chronological-minded user will note that 2**32 slxtieths of a seeond is only about 2.5 years.
v3:
DATE: 3/15/72
DESCRIPTION: time returns the time since 00:00:00, Jan. 1, 1972, measured in sixtieths of a second.
BUGS: The time is stored in 32 bits. This guarantees a crisis every 2.26 years.
v4:
DATE: 8/5/73
DESCRIPTION: time returns the time since 00:00:00 GMT, Jan. 1, 1970, measured in seconds.
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 01:16:18 -0400
> From: Jason Stevens <neozeed(a)gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [TUHS] UNIX turns forty
> To: tuhs(a)tuhs.org
> Message-ID:
> <46b366130905192216h6ec2a0a6s64357feab5a58b95(a)mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> What more (well to me) is that interactive Unix was the first
> commercial unix.... I suspect all versions of it's PDP-11 & VAX stuff
> is lost forever?
>
> Does anyone know why Kodak would have bought them? I suspect they had
> some imaging stuff going....?
They did have microfiche printers running a custom X11 interface.
So when do the official celebrations begin? What's a good estimate
of the month and date in 1969 when it all began?
Tim Newsham
http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/
I have a question about something in this link:
http://minnie.tuhs.org/Seminars/Saving_Unix/
Where it says:
Two other PUPS members, Norman Wilson and Robert D. Keys, have
been OCR'ing the manuals from 1st Edition up to 5th Edition,
so that they can be given to Dennis and added to the PUPS Archive.
That was back in 1999. Did this ever happen? If not, any chance of
getting it to happen?
Thanks!
Arnold
What a lovely thought!
ISTR that many of the papers in the 1978 issue were from the V7
distribution, so the text is around, but not in that format.
DMR could probably clarify more about those issues. (Please?)
I own paper copies of both, although I'm not sure I could find them
quickly if necessary. :-)
I doubt that SysIII is free, even the 16 bit stuff; the userland is
more interesting than the kernel land, and that stuff didn't really care
(much) about 16 vs. 32 bit.
Arnold
> Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 23:20:03 -0300
> From: Rafael R Obelheiro <rro(a)das.ufsc.br>
> To: tuhs(a)tuhs.org
>
> On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 01:27:50PM -0400, Jason Stevens wrote:
> > I'd love to get as much of literature, ads, pdf's & stuff for all the
> > research editions, and package them up to celebrate the 40th...
>
> On a related note, does anyone know if the 1978 and 1984 issues of the
> Bell System Technical Journal dedicated to UNIX have been made
> available online, or if this is even a possibility? AFAIK, a few
> papers have appeared here and there, but having the full collection
> would be another nice way of celebrating the 40 years...
>
> Best regards,
> Rafael
>
> >
> > I've been doing some limited stuff with v1 & the BSD stuff but it'd be
> > fun to do something for 1/4/5/6/32v...
> >
> > Oh and now that Im thinking about it, is the 16bit SYSIII stuff free?
> > I know it was 'ok' by the fact it had been omitted by the opening memo
> > that had stated that the 32bit versions of SYSIII & SYSV were not
> > free...
> >
> > On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Tim Newsham <newsham(a)lava.net> wrote:
> > > So when do the official celebrations begin? What's a good estimate
> > > of the month and date in 1969 when it all began?
> > >
> > > Tim Newsham
> > > http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TUHS mailing list
> > > TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
> > > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TUHS mailing list
> > TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
> > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>
All,
I've had two papers about early UNIX accepted. One is a paper about our
1st Edition UNIX restoration for the IEEE Journal of the History of Computing,
and the second is a paper about several early UNIX restorations including 1st
Ed for the Usenix 2009 technical conference.
This means that I'll be attending the Usenix conference in San Diego in
June, so if anybody else is attending I'd love to catch up with you guys.
Cheers all and again thanks for all the hard work and the fantastic results!
Warren Toomey
All, looks like I will be attending the Usenix technical conference in
San Diego in June this year, to present a paper on restoring some of the
early Unix artifacts. If anybody else is attending the conference, or is
in town, I would very much like to catch up.
P.S Unix turns 40 in mid-2009 as well. Happy birthday Unix!
Cheers,
Warren
Hi. Most of those files would seem to be the generic XDR and RPC code
that Sun released for general use.
The three nfs/* files make me curious though, since Sun would license
their implementation, but not give it away.
It may be that the UWisc dist actually used real Sun code, in which
case anyone using it would have needed a SunOS license also.
Ah, those were the days. I remember that the early versions of SunOS 4.1.x
had both RFS and NFS in them. The original System V Release 4 did too,
as did early versions of Solaris. Sometime around Solaris 5.3 or so Sun
wised up that no-one was using or cared about RFS and they pulled it
out of Solaris. :-)
Arnold
> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 07:00:55 -0400
> Subject: Re: [TUHS] Uwisc4.3 question...
> From: Jason Stevens <neozeed(a)gmail.com>
> To: Aharon Robbins <arnold(a)skeeve.com>, tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org
> X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by f7.net id n2OB0ta22275
>
> Yeah there is certainly sun code... for example here's the copyright
> bit in a file:
>
> /*
> * xdr.c, Generic XDR routines implementation.
> *
> * Copyright (C) 1984, Sun Microsystems, Inc.
> *
> * These are the "generic" xdr routines used to serialize and de-serialize
> * most common data items. See xdr.h for more info on the interface to
> * xdr.
> */
>
> % egrep -ril 'sun microsystems' *
> h/des.h
> h/dnlc.h
> nfs/nfs_server.c
> nfs/nfs_vfsops.c
> nfs/nfs_vnodeops.c
> rpc/auth.h
> rpc/authunix_prot.c
> rpc/auth_kern.c
> rpc/auth_none.c
> rpc/auth_unix.c
> rpc/auth_unix.h
> rpc/clnt.h
> rpc/clnt_kudp.c
> rpc/clnt_perror.c
> rpc/clnt_raw.c
> rpc/clnt_simple.c
> rpc/clnt_tcp.c
> rpc/clnt_udp.c
> rpc/kudp_fastsend.c
> rpc/pmap_clnt.c
> rpc/pmap_clnt.h
> rpc/pmap_getmaps.c
> rpc/pmap_getport.c
> rpc/pmap_prot.c
> rpc/pmap_prot.h
> rpc/pmap_rmt.c
> rpc/rpc.h
> rpc/rpc_msg.h
> rpc/rpc_prot.c
> rpc/subr_kudp.c
> rpc/svc.c
> rpc/svc.h
> rpc/svc_auth.c
> rpc/svc_auth.h
> rpc/svc_auth_unix.c
> rpc/svc_kudp.c
> rpc/svc_raw.c
> rpc/svc_simple.c
> rpc/svc_tcp.c
> rpc/svc_udp.c
> rpc/xdr.c
> rpc/xdr.h
> rpc/xdr_array.c
> rpc/xdr_float.c
> rpc/xdr_mbuf.c
> rpc/xdr_mem.c
> rpc/xdr_rec.c
> rpc/xdr_reference.c
> rpc/xdr_stdio.c
> sys/heap_kmem.c
> sys/vfs_dnlc.c
> ufs/quota.c
> ufs/quota_syscalls.c
> ufs/quota_ufs.c
> ufs/ufs_dir.c
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 5:14 AM, Aharon Robbins <arnold(a)skeeve.com> wrote:
> >> Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 00:53:07 -0400
> >> From: Jason Stevens <neozeed(a)gmail.com>
> >> To: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org
> >> Subject: [TUHS] Uwisc4.3 question...
> >>
> >> I went ahead and downloaded this [
> >> http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/4BSD/Distributions/thirdparty/UWisc4.3/ ],
> >> made up some tape images and installed it on SIMH... And what I found
> >> is that as far as I can tell there is *NO* information about this
> >> thing..
> >>
> >> All I can find is that it includes the vfs layer from SunOS and it's
> >> NFS... It looks like beta software from the root user being "The Not
> >> Ready for Prime Time Super User".
> >
> > Does the code actually say "Sun Microsystems"? If not, then this might have
> > been the VFS and NFS stuff that got folded back into BSD Reno.
> >
> > I think there were other schools that ran this. At the same time
> > as this entry (1989) I was a sysadmin in the computing center
> > of Emory University and we were running Mt. Xinu's mixture of
> > 4.3 BSD with NFS from Sun, and then later their commercial Unix
> > on Vax 11/780s, and starting to move to Sparcs running SunOS 4.0.
> One of the uni's I went to made that transition in the mid 90's.. At
> that time I didn't realize how many 'upgrades' they had made to Ultrix
> to make it... usable. Although I don't think I miss archie/veronica
> but the simplicity of pine/lynx is kind of there.. oh sure they still
> run on 'modern' things but it isn't the same really.
> >
> > The comp. center preferred having a vendor with whom there could be
> > a support contract - IIRC then otherwise we probably would have
> > been running this too.
> >
> > Ah, those were the days, when men were real men, and computers
> > were vaxen. :-)
> >
> >> FWIW here is the UUCP entry I found...
> >> ------
> >> #N eedsp
> >> #S Vax 11/780; 4.3+NFS Wisconsin Unix
> >> #O School of Electrical Engineering
> >> #C Deborah J. Jackson
> >> #E gt-eedsp!deb
> >> #T +1 404 894 3058
> >> #P School of EE, Georgia Tech, Atlanta, GA, 30332
> >> #L 84 23 43 W / 33 46 30 N
> >> #W eedsp!deb (Deb Jackson); Wed Jul 19 11:35:13 EDT 1989
> >> ------
> >
> > I knew Deb Jackson and worked with her a little when we were both at GT
> > (I was in Information and Computer Science, not EE) and then a lot when
> > I suggested that the start-up company I was at hire her (which they
> > did). I've not seen her in around 18 years, nor do I know where she is
> > now, although presumably she's still in Atlanta somewhere.
> >
> > Arnold
> >
>
> It's funny the weird things that get left around the internet... and
> the host file from that tape image is MASSIVE.. lol and I thought
> having a DNS zone with that many enteries was crazy... I did manage
> to hack the networking for it to work... It's not elegant, but
> commenting out the error checking in if_de's derecv procedure seems to
> work... I could ping around for the last 5 hours, and telnet into it.
> I'll have to build some package with simh to run it on windows...
>
I went ahead and downloaded this [
http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/4BSD/Distributions/thirdparty/UWisc4.3/ ],
made up some tape images and installed it on SIMH... And what I found
is that as far as I can tell there is *NO* information about this
thing..
All I can find is that it includes the vfs layer from SunOS and it's
NFS... It looks like beta software from the root user being "The Not
Ready for Prime Time Super User".
There is also a tadl user, Tad Lebeck which I think is from "Storage
Confrence"..
Anyways it seems absent from the UNIX tree, and just about anywhere
from google's search of usenet, other then a single node running this
back in the UUCP days..
So is this a unique build of 4.3, is it it's own thing? Should it be
added to the unix tree? Did it get rolled back into RENO?
It does appear to be dead end, but I haven't combed that much thru it..
FWIW here is the UUCP entry I found...
------
#N eedsp
#S Vax 11/780; 4.3+NFS Wisconsin Unix
#O School of Electrical Engineering
#C Deborah J. Jackson
#E gt-eedsp!deb
#T +1 404 894 3058
#P School of EE, Georgia Tech, Atlanta, GA, 30332
#L 84 23 43 W / 33 46 30 N
#W eedsp!deb (Deb Jackson); Wed Jul 19 11:35:13 EDT 1989
------
And for the heck of it, a bootup log..
------
loading ra(0,0)boot
Boot
: ra(0,0)vmunix
290188+89696+102928 start 0x12f8
4.3 BSD UNIX #3: Mon Dec 29 11:54:56 CST 1986
tadl@brie:/usr/src/bsd/4.3/sys/GENERIC
real mem = 8388608
SYSPTSIZE limits number of buffers to 134
avail mem = 7136256
using 134 buffers containing 524288 bytes of memory
mcr0 at tr1
mcr1 at tr2
uba0 at tr3
hk0 at uba0 csr 177440 vec 210, ipl 15
rk0 at hk0 slave 0
rk1 at hk0 slave 1
rk2 at hk0 slave 2
rk3 at hk0 slave 3
uda0 at uba0 csr 172150 vec 774, ipl 15
ra0 at uda0 slave 0
zs0 at uba0 csr 172520 vec 224, ipl 15
ts0 at zs0 slave 0
dz0 at uba0 csr 160100 vec 300, ipl 15
dz1 at uba0 csr 160110 vec 310, ipl 15
dz2 at uba0 csr 160120 vec 320, ipl 15
dz3 at uba0 csr 160130 vec 330, ipl 15
Changing root device to ra0a
Automatic reboot in progress...
Sat Mar 21 16:45:41 PST 1987
/dev/ra0a: 355 files, 5885 used, 1544 free (8 frags, 192 blocks, 0.1% fragmion)
/dev/rra0g: 12289 files, 65182 used, 180043 free (275 frags, 22471
blocks,fragmentation)
/dev/rra0h: 2 files, 9 used, 138575 free (15 frags, 17320 blocks, 0.0% fragtion)
Sat Mar 21 16:45:49 PST 1987
/dev/ra0a mounted on /
/dev/ra0g mounted on /usr
/dev/ra0h mounted on /mnt
starting rpc daemons: portmap rpcd.
starting system logger
starting local deamons: routed sendmail biod.
preserving editor files
clearing /tmp
standard daemons: update cron.
starting network daemons: inetd printer.
Sat Mar 21 16:45:54 PST 1987
Wisconsin UNIX (myname console)
4.3+NFS > V.*
login: root
Last login: Sat Mar 21 16:44:51 on console
4.3 BSD UNIX #3: Mon Dec 29 11:54:56 CST 1986
You have mail.
Don't login as root, use su
myname#
> Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 00:53:07 -0400
> From: Jason Stevens <neozeed(a)gmail.com>
> To: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: [TUHS] Uwisc4.3 question...
>
> I went ahead and downloaded this [
> http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/4BSD/Distributions/thirdparty/UWisc4.3/ ],
> made up some tape images and installed it on SIMH... And what I found
> is that as far as I can tell there is *NO* information about this
> thing..
>
> All I can find is that it includes the vfs layer from SunOS and it's
> NFS... It looks like beta software from the root user being "The Not
> Ready for Prime Time Super User".
Does the code actually say "Sun Microsystems"? If not, then this might have
been the VFS and NFS stuff that got folded back into BSD Reno.
I think there were other schools that ran this. At the same time
as this entry (1989) I was a sysadmin in the computing center
of Emory University and we were running Mt. Xinu's mixture of
4.3 BSD with NFS from Sun, and then later their commercial Unix
on Vax 11/780s, and starting to move to Sparcs running SunOS 4.0.
The comp. center preferred having a vendor with whom there could be
a support contract - IIRC then otherwise we probably would have
been running this too.
Ah, those were the days, when men were real men, and computers
were vaxen. :-)
> FWIW here is the UUCP entry I found...
> ------
> #N eedsp
> #S Vax 11/780; 4.3+NFS Wisconsin Unix
> #O School of Electrical Engineering
> #C Deborah J. Jackson
> #E gt-eedsp!deb
> #T +1 404 894 3058
> #P School of EE, Georgia Tech, Atlanta, GA, 30332
> #L 84 23 43 W / 33 46 30 N
> #W eedsp!deb (Deb Jackson); Wed Jul 19 11:35:13 EDT 1989
> ------
I knew Deb Jackson and worked with her a little when we were both at GT
(I was in Information and Computer Science, not EE) and then a lot when
I suggested that the start-up company I was at hire her (which they
did). I've not seen her in around 18 years, nor do I know where she is
now, although presumably she's still in Atlanta somewhere.
Arnold
if anyone is interested, I noticed that if you remove the error
checking form the recv portion of the if_de driver it seems to work
for 4.3 BSD & variants... As far as I know there is no if_de for 4.2
BSD... But then if there were you would still have it's
incompatibility problems...
Anyways, here is a diff from 4.3 BSD
*** if_de-orig.c Mon Mar 24 04:05:10 1986
--- if_de.c Mon Mar 24 04:06:09 1986
***************
*** 457,466 ****
len = (rp->r_lenerr&RERR_MLEN) - sizeof (struct ether_header)
- 4; /* don't forget checksum! */
/* check for errors */
! if ((rp->r_flags & (RFLG_ERRS|RFLG_FRAM|RFLG_OFLO|RFLG_CRC)) ||
(rp->r_flags&(RFLG_STP|RFLG_ENP)) != (RFLG_STP|RFLG_ENP) ||
(rp->r_lenerr & (RERR_BUFL|RERR_UBTO|RERR_NCHN)) ||
len < ETHERMIN || len > ETHERMTU) {
ds->ds_if.if_ierrors++;
if (dedebug)
printf("de%d: ierror, flags=%b lenerr=%b (len=%d)\n",
--- 457,468 ----
len = (rp->r_lenerr&RERR_MLEN) - sizeof (struct ether_header)
- 4; /* don't forget checksum! */
/* check for errors */
! /*** if ((rp->r_flags & (RFLG_ERRS|RFLG_FRAM|RFLG_OFLO|RFLG_CRC)) ||
(rp->r_flags&(RFLG_STP|RFLG_ENP)) != (RFLG_STP|RFLG_ENP) ||
(rp->r_lenerr & (RERR_BUFL|RERR_UBTO|RERR_NCHN)) ||
len < ETHERMIN || len > ETHERMTU) {
+ ***/
+ if(1==5){
ds->ds_if.if_ierrors++;
if (dedebug)
printf("de%d: ierror, flags=%b lenerr=%b (len=%d)\n",
I have set it up with my SLiRP patch, and I had it pinging away at
10.0.2.2 for 5 hours, 100% success, and I had no issues TELNETTing
into the VM..I think that BSD see's the crc32 on the end and treats
all inbound packets as bad, dropping them all.. so I just quickly
sidestepped the error check.. I would imagine this would work with
SIMH's libpcap support so you can now get your virtual 11/780 onto the
Internet, and party like it's 1986!
For any windows users out there, I'll package up 4.3 BSD & the
Wisconsin version up onto sourceforge...
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=204974&package_id=245…
>
>H.J. Thomassen scripsit:
>
>> In August 2008 a thread was started by 'zmkm' where he asked (among
>> other things) for a "unix assembler manual" by DMR. I could post a
>> scan on line if somebody is still interested. It's a 12 page text and
>> the CPU involved is -of course- DEC PDP-11.
>
>Go for it, I'd say. Many will be interested, and no one is likely to sue.
At http://wwwlehre.ba-stuttgart.de/~helbig/os/v6/doc/index.html
you'll find the V6 assembler manual.
Enjoy,
Wolfgang
Hi all,
I just discovered this list & decided to join.
In August 2008 a thread was started by 'zmkm' where
he asked (among other things) for a "unix assembler
manual" by DMR. I could post a scan on line if
somebody is still interested. It's a 12 page text
and the CPU involved is -of course- DEC PDP-11.
Plse let me know.
Regards
--
Hendrik-Jan Thomassen <hjt(a)ATComputing.nl>
Wow I'm surprised a few hours googleing about and I got it running....
I found this 'idle' emulator ("Incomplete Draft of a Lisa Emulator"
http://sourceforge.net/projects/idle-lisa-emu ), which can infact run
Xenix! It also says it can run the uniplus SYSV (so says the
readme)..
Searching around I found the following site:
http://unixsadm.blogspot.com/2007/12/xenix-blast-from-past-looking-back-at.…
which has Xenix 3.0 disk images in the DART format... which as luck
would have it idle cannot mount. However I found another lisa
emulator, lisaem ( http://www.sunder.net/ ) which has a tool to
convert the disks from DART to DC42 (disk copy 4.2).
So it was a simple matter of converting the disks
lisafsh-tool.exe "Xenix OS Boot Floppy"
quit
... etc etc...
Then firing up idle, setting the CPU to max speed, and booting up...
whenver I was going to answer a question I toggled it back to 5Mhz..
otherwise it would take FOREVER to boot... lol like the 'good old
days'.
Once the boot floppy had formatted the 5mb hard disk image, and
transfered on reboot I had to tell the bootloader to boot from the
profile disk..
pf(0,0)xenix
And away it went. After installing the OS & the C compiler I'm left
with 23 blocks free!.. which I guess for a 5mb disk, is pretty cool..
Anyways there are assorted Xenix PDF's which can be found here
http://www.tenox.tc/docs/
Namely these two for Apple Lisa Xenix..
http://www.tenox.tc/docs/apple_lisa_xenix_programmers_guide.pdfhttp://www.tenox.tc/docs/apple_lisa_xenix_programmers_reference.pdf
It's amazing that lisa emulators were sort of capable of running Lisa
Office System, now they can run the old unix stuff... it's still
impressive.
Hello from Italy!
I'm interested in Xenix copyright. Do someone of you know who exactly
owns Xenix? According to Wikipedia, Microsoft gave everything to SCO,
but did they gave also the copyright for the non-x86 versions?
I'm asking this because I'm interested in "saving" Xenix from fading
into the digital night. If everything belongs to SCO, then maybe an
"binary only, non-commercial hobbyst license" could *eventually* be
released, at least for older or non-x86 products
Best regards,
Lorenzo
PS: First mailing list post ever. I'm definitely a newbie, here :)
