TUHS

tuhs@tuhs.org

28 participants
6556 discussions

by Oliver Lehmann

Hi, does someone know where "u" is defined on SYSIII or V7? sys/user.h states: extern struct user u; But I wonder where it is defined? On ZEUS I have u.o but I'm not able to correctly disassemble it. Right now I'm guessing that it should be something like: u module $segmented $abs %F600 global _u array [%572 byte] end u But the resulting object (u.o.hd) does not match 100% the existing u.o on the system (u.o.orig.hd). --- u.o.orig.hd 2008-05-16 21:52:12.000000000 +0200 +++ u.o.hd 2008-05-16 21:52:16.000000000 +0200 @@ -3,6 +3,6 @@ 00000020 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................| 00000030 00 00 00 02 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 1e 00 75 5f |..............u_| 00000040 70 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 1e 01 75 5f 64 00 |p...........u_d.| -00000050 00 00 00 00 3e 00 f6 00 61 3e 5f 75 00 00 00 00 |....>..a>_u....| +00000050 00 00 00 00 01 00 f6 00 61 01 5f 75 00 00 00 00 |.......a._u....| 00000060 00 00 |..| 00000062

9 years, 9 months

Re: [TUHS] user struct on SYSIII / V7

by Brantley Coile

iPhone email > On Nov 13, 2015, at 2:38 PM, Brantley Coile <brantleycoile(a)icloud.com> wrote: > > For performance reasons an assembly symbol "u" was defined to be a fixed address. That allowed us to use constructions like u.u_procp to generate a single address. It was very fast. Does this help? > > iPhone email > >> On Nov 13, 2015, at 2:33 PM, Oliver Lehmann <lehmann(a)ans-netz.de> wrote: >> >> >> Oliver Lehmann <lehmann(a)ans-netz.de> wrote: >> >>> u module >>> $segmented >>> $abs %F600 >>> >>> global >>> >>> _u array [%572 byte] >>> >>> end u >> >> By any way - is here someone on the list understanding Z8000 PLZ/ASM? ;) >> >> The problem is, that "u" must be available in the address space on this >> location for the kernel to function correctly: >> >> # define UBASE 0x3E00F600 /* kernel virtual addr of user struct */ >> >> And with the above ASM code, it is placed on 0x0100F600. I also tried >> of course $abs 0x3E00F600 but it makes no difference. It is always >> placed at 0x0100F600 and I have zero clue why >> >> the original object from the system: >> >> #67 nm /usr/sys/conf/u.o >> 3e00f600 A _u >> 01000000 s u_d >> 0000 s u_p >> >> >> my object generated from my u.s: >> >> #68 nm u.o >> 0100f600 A _u >> 01000000 s u_d >> 0000 s u_p >> >> Somehow I need to get the address right.... This is why I wanted to >> look up how the original SYSIII or V7 was doing it (even if the asm >> would be of course completely different). >> _______________________________________________ >> TUHS mailing list >> TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org >> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs

9 years, 9 months

Backport cut to V7

by Mark Longridge

I'm not sure how old cut is, but a quick look at the code gave me the idea it could be backported to V7, as I'm fairly sure that cut wasn't in V7. It doesn't look like it needs a lot of stuff, just fclose, puts, do and while loops. Even a v6 or v5 backport doesn't seem too difficult. Mark

9 years, 9 months

Subject: Re: A portrait of cut(1)

by Doug McIlroy

> /* (-s option: serial concatenation like old (127's) paste command */ > > For that matter, what's the "old (127's) paste command" it refers to? I can't remember 127 ever having a "paste" command. We did have "ov", which overlaid adjacent pairs of formatted pages to make two-column text. "Serial concatenation" would seem to be what was done by "pr" or "cat". "ov" figured in the flurry of demos on the day of pipes' birth. nroff | ov | ov made four-column output.

9 years, 9 months

Re: [TUHS] A portrait of cut(1)

by Norman Wilson

For that matter, what's the "old (127's) paste command" it refers to? Every organization at AT&T had a number as well as a name. In the early days of UNIX, the number for Computer Science Research was 127. At some point a 1 was prepended, making it 1127, but old-timers still used the three-digit code. So it's a good guess that `127's paste command' means one that came from, or had been modified in, Research. I don't know when or where, though. I don't see a paste command in V7. paste.c in V8 has exactly the same comment at the top. Norman Wilson Toronto ON

9 years, 9 months

PWB contributions

by Doug McIlroy

>> I thought PWB (makers of "make") came from Harvard? > PWB ... came straight out of Bell. Not sure about all the > applications (well, SCCS came from Bell). PWB did not create make; Stu Feldman did it in research. PWB did make SCCS. I believe it also originated cico, find and eval. Probably more, too, but I can't reliably separate PWB's other contributions from USG's. Doug

9 years, 9 months

System III - TCP/IP

by Oliver Lehmann

Hi, i have an old Z8001 based SysIII variant and I would love to have TCP/IP on it (SLIP first, later with a homebrew ethernet device). I wonder if someone ever saw TCP/IP available on a System III? I have lets say 90% of the kernel running on it as source available and I started digging in the available 4.2 BSD sources. It looks like there would be much to do to hack in TCP/IP on my own (no IPC, no Net, no PTY, no....). I got K5JB running (userland TCP/IP implementation) after I fixed some C code because the C Compiler available on the system is..... kinda limited. telnetd is of course not working as there are no pseudo-teletypes on this SYSIII. At least I got ping, echoping and ftpd up and running via SLIP (10.1.1.2 is my SysIII box:) # ping -c3 10.1.1.2 PING 10.1.1.2 (10.1.1.2): 56 data bytes 64 bytes from 10.1.1.2: icmp_seq=0 ttl=254 time=316.317 ms 64 bytes from 10.1.1.2: icmp_seq=1 ttl=254 time=297.328 ms 64 bytes from 10.1.1.2: icmp_seq=2 ttl=254 time=296.369 ms --- 10.1.1.2 ping statistics --- 3 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, 0.0% packet loss round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 296.369/303.338/316.317/9.186 ms # ftp 10.1.1.2 Connected to 10.1.1.2. 220 FTP version K5JB.k37 ready at Tue Apr 30 22:25:47 1991 Name (10.1.1.2:root): test 331 Enter PASS command Password: 230 Logged in ftp> get sa.timer local: sa.timer remote: sa.timer 500 Unknown command 500 Unknown command 200 Port command okay 150 Opening data connection for RETR sa.timer 2571 0.53 KB/s 226 File sent OK 2571 bytes received in 00:05 (0.48 KB/s) ftp> get wega local: wega remote: wega 200 Port command okay 150 Opening data connection for RETR wega 98723 0.51 KB/s 226 File sent OK 98723 bytes received in 03:05 (0.51 KB/s) ftp> exit 221 Goodbye! # So I wonder if someone got anything SYSIII -> Net/TCP/IP related which could help me in any way to get a SYSIII kernel capable of TCP/IP and PTYs to get a telnetd up and running via SLIP is my first goal. Regards, Oliver

9 years, 9 months

About SCCS (and PWB)

by Marc Rochkind

I just got on this list today, and I see that Larry McVoy asks: "I wish Marc was on this list, be fun to chat." I'd be happy to chime in on SCCS or early PWB questions, to the extent I remember anything. I did see a thread about PWB contributions in which people are trying to sort out what came from research and what from the PWB group (under Evan Ivie). As I recall, PWB was always based on research. Dick Haight would install the latest research system from time-to-time, and then the so-called "PWB UNIX" was whatever he had taken from research plus stuff we were developing, such as SCCS. Unlike, say, Columbus UNIX, our kernel always matched research at the system call level, so there never was such a thing as a PWB-kernel dependency. (I think the USG system was run quite differently: They had their own system, and would merge improvements from research into it. I could be wrong about this, as I never worked in the USG group.) --Marc

9 years, 9 months

Anyone have any sun4c/hp300?

by Cory Smelosky

Anyone have some sun4c or hp300 gear they'd be persuaded to part with? Preferred in the SF Bay Area? It's getting a bit too difficult using broken emulators and broken cross compilers... Sent from my iPhone

9 years, 9 months

do you know about TUHS?

by Larry McVoy

Hi Marc, TUHS == The Unix Historical Society, it's a mailing list as well as a repository of Unix source code (including yours). A lot of the Bell Labs guys are on the list, it has weird topics like the current one of how to get System III booting on a Zilog something that is 16 bits but can address 8MB in segments. There was a side discussion of PWB and SCCS came up and I started talking about how cool SCCS was and how RCS gave it an undeserved bad rap. In the process I said "I wish Marc was on this list" and John Cowan said here is his email, go ask him. I think you'd have fun on the list, it's old school unix. Lots of signal, very little noise. I personally would love to have you there, SCCS was brilliant. It would be fun to pick your brain about how that happened. And for the record your advanced unix programming book has influenced how I code. It error checks when there could be errors and passes when there shouldn't be errors. I feel like that book threaded the needle - error checking matters except when it doesn't. It taught me a lot and I pass it on to anyone who will listen. If you want to get on the list send an email to wkt(a)tuhs.org. Be good to have your voice here. --lm

9 years, 9 months

Re: [TUHS] PWB contributions

by Doug McIlroy

> cpio, expr, xargs, yacc, and lex first appeared outside > the Bell Labs boundary in the PWB release This gently corrects a statement in my posting: the name of one of the PWB-originated programs is expr, not eval. Doug

9 years, 9 months

Re: [TUHS] System III - TCP/IP

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> > I thought PWB (makers of "make") came from Harvard? PWB? As in "Programmer's Work Bench"? The OS part of that came straight out of Bell - see pg. 266 in the first Unix BSTJ issue. Not sure about all the applications (well, SCCS came from Bell). Noel

9 years, 9 months

Re: [TUHS] RIP Ken Iverson

by Doug McIlroy

Dan, I wrote: Quiz for the occasion: which major Unix utility adopted IPL's unprecedented expression syntax? You correctly responded: troff. I suppose, in a sense, that 'dc' also fits the bill but given that that is inherent in it's stack based nature, I doubt that is what you meant. The notion of precedence pertains specifically to infix notation, so postfix dc is definitely not in the running. Idle thought about my typo: Though APL is famously inscrutable, IPL (specifically IPL-V) outshined it in that department. Doug

9 years, 10 months

Re: [TUHS] RIP Ken Iverson

by Doug McIlroy

Quiz for the occasion: which major Unix utility adopted IPL's unprecedented expression syntax? doug

9 years, 10 months

RIP Ken Iverson

by Dave Horsfall

Loved or loathed for inventing APL, we lost him in 2004. The best thing you can say about APL (I used APL\360) is that it's, err, concise... -- Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU) "Those who don't understand security will suffer."

9 years, 10 months

RIP Dennis Ritchie

by Dave Horsfall

In 2011. Enough said... -- Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU) "Those who don't understand security will suffer."

9 years, 10 months

nice interviews with Brian Kernighan

by Aharon Robbins

Sent to me by a friend: https://youtu.be/vT_J6xc-Az0 There's another one there about "The C Programming Language" book as well. And looks like more to come. Arnold

9 years, 10 months

Re: [TUHS] Questions regarding early Unix contributors

by Nelson H. F. Beebe

On Fri, 2 Oct 2015 12:00:08 -0600, I posted to this list a summary of the earliest mentions of Unix in several corporate technical journals. This morning, I made a similar search in the complete bibliographies of 29 journals on the history of computing, mathematics, and science listed at http://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/index.html#content As might be expected, there is little mention of Unix (or Linux) in those publications: they only ones that I found are these: +-----------------------+------------------+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | filename | label | substr(title,1,80) | +-----------------------+------------------+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | cryptologia.bib | Morris:1982:CFU | Cryptographic Features of the UNIX Operating System | | annhistcomput.bib | Tomayko:1989:ACI | Anecdotes: a Critical Incident; The First Port of UNIX | | annhistcomput.bib | Tomayko:1989:AWC | Anecdotes: The Windmill Computer---An Eyewitness Report of the Scheutz Differenc | | ieeeannhistcomput.bib | Toomey:2010:FEU | First Edition Unix: Its Creation and Restoration | | ieeeannhistcomput.bib | Sippl:2013:IIM | Informix: Information Management on Unix | +-----------------------+------------------+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - University of Utah FAX: +1 801 581 4148 - - Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB Internet e-mail: beebe(a)math.utah.edu - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe(a)acm.org beebe(a)computer.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/ - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

9 years, 10 months

Re: [TUHS] Questions regarding early Unix contributors

by Nelson H. F. Beebe

Recent traffic on the TUHS list has discussed early publications about UNIX at DECUS. The Digital Technical Journal of Digital Equipment Corporation began publishing in August 1985, and there is a nearly complete bibliography at http://www.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/dectechj.bib Change .bib to .html for a version with live hyperlinks. The first publication there that mentions ULTRIX in its title is from March 1986. Unix appears in a title first in Spring 1995. The document collection at http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/decus/ doesn't appear to have much that might be related to Unix ports to DEC hardware. The Hewlett-Packard Journal is documented in http://www.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/hpj.bib The first paper recorded there that mentions Unix or HP-UX is from March 1984. The Intel Technical Journal is covered in those archives as well at http://www.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/intel-tech-j.bib but it only began relatively recently, in 1997. The IBM Systems Journal began in 1962, and the IBM Journal of Research and Development in 1957, and both are in those archives at http://www.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/ibmsysj.bib http://www.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/ibmjrd.bib In the Systems Journal, the first mention of Unix or AIX is in Fall 1979 (Unix) and then December 1987 (AIX). In the Journal of R&D, AIX appears in January 1990, and Unix appears in abstracts sporadically, but is in a title first in late Fall 2002. In the Bell Systems Technical Journal, covered at http://www.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/bstj1970.bib (and other decades from 1920 to 2010), the first mention of Unix in a title is July/August 1978. There may have been similar corporate technology journals at other computer companies, such as CDC, Cray, Data General, English Electric, Ferranti, Gould, Harris, NCR, Pr1me, Univac, Wang, and others, but I've so far made no attempt to track them down and add bibliographic coverage. Suggestions are welcome! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - University of Utah FAX: +1 801 581 4148 - - Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB Internet e-mail: beebe(a)math.utah.edu - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe(a)acm.org beebe(a)computer.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/ - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

9 years, 10 months

Re: [TUHS] Questions regarding early Unix contributors

by Norman Wilson

Dave Horsfall: Oh, and I also wrote many articles for AUUGN, and presented the original Unix paper at a DECUS conference, just to stir up the VMSoids. ===== Do you mean the first UNIX-related paper ever at a DECUS? If so, do you mean DECUS Australia or DECUS at all? I'm pretty sure there was UNIX-related activity in DECUS US in 1980, probably earlier, and am quite sure there was by 1981 when I was on the sidelines of what eventually became the UNIX SIG. It was initially called the Special Software and Operating Systems SIG, because DECUS US leadership always included a somewhat stodgy subgroup who were more afraid of offending Digital's marketing people than of serving the membership. So we ended up with a code name. Since there were in fact Digital technical and marketing people supporting the new SIG, it was only a couple of years before the name was fixed. Norman Wilson Toronto ON (Lived in Los Angeles and then New Jersey during that period)

9 years, 10 months

Re: [TUHS] Questions regarding early Unix contributors

by Hellwig Geisse

Hi, I don't know if John Lions ever wrote a full book about PCC, but there is a paper analyzing its second pass: https://github.com/eunuchs/unix-archive/blob/master/Documentation/Papers/li… Hellwig

9 years, 10 months

Re: [TUHS] Questions regarding early Unix contributors

by Clem Cole

On Thu, Sep 24, 2015 at 9:27 AM, <arnold(a)skeeve.com> wrote: > I think the Berkeley guys had an underground > pipeline to Bell labs and some stuff got out that way. :-) > It was not underground at all. Tools packaged in BSD came from all over the community. style and diction were released into the wild by themselves before the were packaged into an AT&T USG UNIX or Research UNIX release. It got them personally directly and had them installed at Tektronix soon after first publishing and a talk about them at USENIX (IIRC that was the Boulder conference in the "Black Hole" movie theatre. Since I had a minor stake in it (as my first C program) fsck is another good example of the path to UCB . Ted started the predecessor program when he was at UMich (with Bill Joy). He did his OYOC year and later a full PhD at CMU. He was one of my lab partners in his OYOC year. fsck was a we know it now was done during that time ( and I helped him a bit). He was bring the sources back and forth from Summit to CMU (at the time in an RK05 or sometimes a bootable DOS tape image of one - I may still have one of these). I believe he gave a copy of the sources very early to wnj -- which is how it ended up in 4.1BSD. I don't think it was in the original 3.0 or 4.0 packages as it was not in V5, V6 or V7 either. I believe it was released in PWB 2.0 - not sure and Minnie does not seem to have them. I'm pretty the SCCS and cpio sources came through one of the PWB releases (1 or 2) that UCB got from AT&T. Clem

9 years, 10 months

update on Bell System Technical Journal family archives

by Nelson H. F. Beebe

In late 2010, I released decade-specific bibliographies of the Bell System Technical Journal (BSTJ) at http://www.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/bstj1920.bib ... http://www.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/bstj2010.bib (change .bib to .html for versions with live hyperlinks). I get weekly status reports for the hundreds of bibliographies in the archives to which the bstj*.bib files belong, and until recently, I'd been puzzling about the apparent cessation of publication of the Bell Labs Technical Journal (its current name) in March 2014. I now understand why: according to the Wiley Web site for the journal, ownership and the archives have been transferred to IEEE, effective with volume 19 (2014). The bstj2010.bib file has accordingly been updated today with coverage of (so far, only four) articles published by IEEE in volume 19. [The first of those is a 50-year retrospective on the discovery of the Cosmic Microware Background that provided some of the first solid evidence for the Big Bang theory of the origin and evolution of the universe, and led to the award of the 1978 Nobel Prize in Physics to Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson. The article also includes a timeline of important Bell Labs developments, and Unix is listed there.] Older list readers may remember that a lot of the early research publications about Unix appeared in the BSTJ issues, so this journal should have considerable interest for TUHS list users, and the move of the archives from Wiley to IEEE may make the back issues somewhat more accessible outside those academic environments that have library subscriptions for Wiley journals in electronic form. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - University of Utah FAX: +1 801 581 4148 - - Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB Internet e-mail: beebe(a)math.utah.edu - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe(a)acm.org beebe(a)computer.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/ - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

9 years, 10 months

where the docs have gone

by Doug McIlroy

The disappearance of some troff-related documents that had been on line at Bell Labs was recently reported on this list. That turns out to have been a bureaucratic snafu. Plan 9 and v7 are back now. It is hoped that CSTRs will follow. Doug

9 years, 10 months

getting nroff to underline in v6,v5

by Mark Longridge

It seems that nroff had the ability to show underlined text very early on, possibly as early as v3 according to the v3 manual. I haven't managed to get this to work right under simh but I was thinking maybe there's a way to do it. It needs an 'underline font' but the mechanism of how this worked in the old days is a bit of mystery to me. The output device would have to have the ability to either display or print underlined text. Maybe someone can remember which terminal devices supported this in the old days which worked "out of the box" in the v5,v6 era. Maybe there was the ability to use overstrike characters on the teletype? In bash I can use: echo -e "\e[4munderline\e[0m" Shouldn't be too hard to hack up something that works in emulated v5. Mark

9 years, 10 months

Jump to page:

2025

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

2005

2004

2003

2002

2001

2000

1999

1998

1997

1996

1995

1994

1993

1992

1991

1990

TUHS