On Thu, 10 Sep 2015, Norman Wilson wrote:
> #$%^&*\{{{
>
> NO CARRIER
>
> +++
> ATH
My favourite would be:
+++
(pause - this was necessary)
ATZ
I.e. a reset.
I think there were even worse ones in the Hayes codes, like ATH3 or
something. Dammit, but mental bit-rot is setting in.
Of course, I never did such an evil thing, your honour... Honest! Never!
--
Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU) "Those who don't understand security will suffer."
I'll support shark-culling when they have been observed walking on dry land.
I've used realloc a lot, and never run into bugs. Maybe I've just
been lucky, or maybe it's that I probably didn't use it that much
until the latter 1980s, and then more with pukka Doug malloc code
than with the stuff floating around elsewhere.
Never mind that sometime around 1995 I found a subtle bug in the
pukka Doug malloc (not realloc): arena blew up badly when presented
with a certain pattern of alternating small and large allocs and frees,
produced by a pukka Brian awk regression test. I had a lot of (genuine)
fun tracking that down, writing some low-level tools to extract the
malloc and free calls and sizes and then a simulator in (what else?)
awk to test different fixes. Oh, for the days when UNIX was that
simple.
I've never heard before of a belief that the new memory belonging
to realloc is always cleared, except in conjunction with the utterly-
mistaken belief that that's true of malloc as well. I don't think it
was ever promised to be true, though it was probably true by accident
just often enough (just as often as with malloc) to fool the careless.
Norman Wilson
Toronto ON
I’ve just had a discussion with my boss about this and he claimed that it did at one point and I said it hasn’t in all the unix versions I’ve ever played with (v6, v7, sys III, V, BSD 2, 3, 4, SunOS and Solaris).
My question to this illustrious group is: Did any Unix or Unix like OS ever zero fill on realloc?
David
I never used realloc(), only malloc() and calloc().
Checking a few unixes I have access to all reallocs() seem to state
either nothing on contents of memory added or state explicitly
'undefined'.
The only function which zeroes allocated memory is calloc() it seems.
Unixes checks: SCO UNIX 3.2V4.2, Digital Unix 4.0G, Tru64 Unix V5.1B,
HP-UX 11.23, HP-UX 11.31
Cheers
On 9/11/15, tuhs-request(a)minnie.tuhs.org <tuhs-request(a)minnie.tuhs.org> wrote:
> Send TUHS mailing list submissions to
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>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Did realloc ever zero the new memory? (David)
> 2. Re: Did realloc ever zero the new memory? (Jim Capp)
> 3. Re: Did realloc ever zero the new memory? (David)
> 4. Re: Did realloc ever zero the new memory? (Larry McVoy)
> 5. Re: Did realloc ever zero the new memory? (David)
> 6. Re: Did realloc ever zero the new memory? (Larry McVoy)
> 7. Re: Did realloc ever zero the new memory? (Clem Cole)
> 8. Re: Did realloc ever zero the new memory? (Dave Horsfall)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 12:52:45 -0700
> From: David <david(a)kdbarto.org>
> To: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: [TUHS] Did realloc ever zero the new memory?
> Message-ID: <E798E102-2C50-4AB2-92CC-188D05AA951F(a)kdbarto.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> I?ve just had a discussion with my boss about this and he claimed that it
> did at one point and I said it hasn?t in all the unix versions I?ve ever
> played with (v6, v7, sys III, V, BSD 2, 3, 4, SunOS and Solaris).
>
> My question to this illustrious group is: Did any Unix or Unix like OS ever
> zero fill on realloc?
>
> David
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 16:10:41 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Jim Capp <jcapp(a)anteil.com>
> To: david(a)kdbarto.org
> Cc: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: Re: [TUHS] Did realloc ever zero the new memory?
> Message-ID: <5962857.12872.1441915841364.JavaMail.root@zimbraanteil>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On every system that I've ever used, I believe that realloc did not do a
> zero fill. There might have been a time when malloc did a zero fill, but I
> never counted on it. I always performed a memset or bzero after a malloc.
> I'm pretty sure that I counted on realloc to NOT perform a zero fill.
>
>
> $.02
>
>
>
> From: "David" <david(a)kdbarto.org>
> To: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org
> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2015 3:52:45 PM
> Subject: [TUHS] Did realloc ever zero the new memory?
>
> I?ve just had a discussion with my boss about this and he claimed that it
> did at one point and I said it hasn?t in all the unix versions I?ve ever
> played with (v6, v7, sys III, V, BSD 2, 3, 4, SunOS and Solaris).
>
> My question to this illustrious group is: Did any Unix or Unix like OS ever
> zero fill on realloc?
>
> David
>
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>
Can't say much more, really...
--
Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU) "Those who don't understand security will suffer."
Concerned about shark attacks? Then don't go swimming in their food bowl...
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jim Haynes
Cc: greenkeys(a)mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Teletype Industrial Design
On Fri, 28 Aug 2015, Jack wrote:
> How were they still applying for patents in 1993?
>
> D332,465 (1993) Sokolowski
>
It was filed for in 1988 and was assigned to AT&T Bell Laboratories.
So I guess that was after what was left of Teletype had gone to
Naperville. And what was left of Bell Labs was still part of AT&T,
before the spinoff of Lucent in 1996.
Incidentally if you google for Bell Laboratories the first thing that
comes up is
Bell Laboratories - Home
www.belllabs.com/
An exclusive manufacturer of rodent control products, Bell Laboratories produces
the highest quality rodenticides and other rodent control products available to
...
Just stirring up the gene pool, so to speak... And who hasn't played
chess with a computer, and caught it cheating?
--
Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU) "Those who don't understand security will suffer"
RIP Cecil the Lion; he was in pain for two days, thanks to some brave hunter.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 16:49:19 -0400
From: Christian Gauger-Cosgrove
To: David Tumey
Cc: GREENKEYS BULLETIN BOARD <greenkeys(a)mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] TELETYPE Chess Anyone??
On 15 August 2015 at 16:37, David Tumey via GreenKeys
<greenkeys(a)mailman.qth.net> wrote:
> house. I got to play a game of Chess on a Model 33/PDP-?? and it totally
> blew my mind. I knew that I wanted that to be part of my current teletype
You know, the current version of the SIMH emulator can connect to
serial ports now. If you want I can help you setup SIMH's PDP-11
simulator running a PDP-11 UNIX which of course has chess you play. So
that it'll work on your TTY.
Only required information is: "What serial port is your Teletype's
current loop adapter connected?" and "What do you want to run? V6, V7,
Ultrix-11, RT-11 (V4, V5.3, V5.7), RSTS/E (V7, V10.1-L), RSX-11/M+,
DSM-11 (kill it with fire)? All of the above?"
Cheers,
Christian
--
Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove
STCKON08DS0
Contact information available upon request.
______________________________________________________________
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Ah hah! My stray memory of `Not War?' must date from my TOPS-10 days.
I can't find a trace of the string `love' anywhere in any of the make
sources in Kirk's multi-CD compendium of historic BSD, so it certainly
can't have been from there.
Norman Wilson
Toronto ON
So me, being an uber-geek, tried it on a few boxen again...
On the Mac:
ozzie:~ dave$ make love
make: *** No rule to make target `love'. Stop.
Boring...
On FreeBSD:
aneurin% make love
Not war.
Thank you for keeping the faith!
And on my tame penguin:
dave@debbie:~$ make love
-bash: make: command not found
Sigh...
--
Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU) "Those who don't understand security will suffer."
Watson never said: "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
On 30 July 2015 at 17:11, Norman Wilson <norman(a)oclsc.org> wrote:
> My vague memory is that the original make, e.g. in V7, printed
> `Don't know how to make love.' This was not a special case:
> `don't know how to make XXX' was the normal message.
>
> There was a variant make that printed
> Not war?
> if asked to make love without explicit instructions. I thought
> that appeared in 3BSD or 4BSD, but I could be mistaken.
On Solaris 10, /usr/css/bin/make reports:
make: Fatal error: Don't know how to make target `love'
N.
My vague memory is that the original make, e.g. in V7, printed
`Don't know how to make love.' This was not a special case:
`don't know how to make XXX' was the normal message.
There was a variant make that printed
Not war?
if asked to make love without explicit instructions. I thought
that appeared in 3BSD or 4BSD, but I could be mistaken.
Norman Wilson
Toronto ON
I recall playing with this on the -11, but it seems to have become extinct
(the program, I mean). I seem to recall that it was written in PDP-11
assembly; did it ever get rewritten in C?
--
Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU) "Those who don't understand security will suffer"
"The complexity for minimum component costs has increased at a rate of
roughly a factor of two per year." -- G.Moore, Electronics, Vol 38 No 8, 1965
> The punning pseudonym, the complaint at the end that Unix and C are dead
> and nothing is even on the horizon to replace them, and the general snarky
> tone suggest to me that it's Rob "Mark V. Shaney" Pike. In that case,
> the affiliation with Bellcore is a blind ("not Goodyear, Goodrich").
VSM, MVS: what other mystery authors in Unix land identify thus with VMS?
Doug
I authored those files so I could render the Seventh Edition manuals
as PDF in 1998 (long after I had departed the Labs). As pic did not
exist yet (Kernighan had not written it) there were never any
original pic files for these documents. I do not know what 1127 was
doing to publish diagrams at the time.
The Bell logo I did directly in postscript so \(bs would render. The logo
was originally it's own custom "character" just like an A, B or C, on the
phototypesetter's optical font wheel.
You can see what they look liked from the v7 PDF manuals --
In Volume 2A (http://plan9.bell-labs.com/7thEdMan/v7vol2a.pdf)
bs.ps is on variety of pages such as 129, 130, 216
ms.pic is on page 127
make.ps is on page 282
In Volume 2B (http://plan9.bell-labs.com/7thEdMan/v7vol2b.pdf)
implfig1.pic is on page 162
implfig2.pic is on page 168
these are the PDF page numbers (where the title is page 1)
> From: Mark Longridge <cubexyz(a)gmail.com>
>
> I came across some Unix files in v7add such as bs.ps for the Bell logo
> and ms.pic (described as Figure 1 for msmacros).
>
> http://www.maxhost.org/other/ms.pic
>
> I was wondering if there was some viewer or conversion program so we
> could look at pic files from this era?
>
> Mark
>
>
I came across some Unix files in v7add such as bs.ps for the Bell logo
and ms.pic (described as Figure 1 for msmacros).
http://www.maxhost.org/other/ms.pic
I was wondering if there was some viewer or conversion program so we
could look at pic files from this era?
Mark
Peter Salus noted there was workshop in Newport, RI, in 1984 concerning
"Distributed UNIX." The report on “Distributed UNIX” by Veigh S. Meer [a
transparent pseudonym] appeared in /;login:/ 9.5 (November 1984), pp.
5-9. So who was "Veigh S. Meer"? The affiliation says "Bellcore," but
who was there in 1984? Peter's first thought was Peter Langston.
Any ideas?
Debbie
Dave Horsfall:
Call me slow, but can someone please explain the joke? If it's American
humo[u]r, then remember that I'm British/Australian...
There is no such thing as American humour, because Yanks don't know
how to spell.
They can't get the wood either.
Norman Wilson
(reformed Yank)
Toronto ON
When I get back to a keyboard I thought maybe it would be nice to share
some Greg stories, I have enough of them. So I'll try and do that.
If anyone wants to do that in person, USENIX ATC is next
week and would be an appropriate venue. Perhaps a Greg
Chesson Memorial BOF?
Norman Wilson
Toronto ON
Much to my surprise I see there isn't a WIKI page on Greg Chesson yet?
Maybe some of his friends get get together on submit one ?
Cheers,
rudi
On 6/30/15, tuhs-request(a)minnie.tuhs.org <tuhs-request(a)minnie.tuhs.org> wrote:
> Send TUHS mailing list submissions to
> tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> tuhs-request(a)minnie.tuhs.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> tuhs-owner(a)minnie.tuhs.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of TUHS digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. We've lost Greg Chesson (Dave Horsfall)
> 2. Re: We've lost Greg Chesson (Clem Cole)
> 3. Re: We've lost Greg Chesson (Larry McVoy)
> 4. Re: We've lost Greg Chesson (Larry McVoy)
> 5. Re: We've lost Greg Chesson (Mary Ann Horton)
> 6. Re: We've lost Greg Chesson (Norman Wilson)
> 7. Re: We've lost Greg Chesson (Dave Horsfall)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2015 17:30:16 +1000 (EST)
> From: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org>
> To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society <tuhs(a)tuhs.org>
> Subject: [TUHS] We've lost Greg Chesson
> Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.11.1506291728540.96902(a)aneurin.horsfall.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Haven't found any more info...
>
> --
> Dave Horsfall (VK2KFU) "Those who don't understand security will suffer"
> http://www.horsfall.org/ It's just a silly little web site, that's all...
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2015 18:50:42 -0400
> From: Dave Farber
> To: ip <ip(a)listbox.com>
> Subject: [IP] Death of Greg Chesson
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Lauren Weinstein"
> Date: Jun 28, 2015 6:43 PM
> Subject: Death of Greg Chesson
> To: <dave(a)farber.net>
> Cc:
>
>
> Dave, fyi.
>
> https://plus.google.com/u/0/+LaurenWeinstein/posts/bRdbj1B1qQG
>
> --Lauren--
> Lauren Weinstein (lauren(a)vortex.com) http://www.vortex.com/lauren
> Founder:
> ?- Network Neutrality Squad: http://www.nnsquad.org
> ?- PRIVACY Forum: http://www.vortex.com/privacy-info
> Co-Founder: People For Internet Responsibility:
> http://www.pfir.org/pfir-info
> Member: ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy
> Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com
> Google+: http://google.com/+LaurenWeinstein
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/laurenweinstein
> Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 / Skype: vortex.com
>
> Archives [feed-icon-10x10.jpg] | Modify Your Subscription | Unsubscribe Now
> [listbox-logo-small.png]
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2015 07:44:58 -0500
> From: Clem Cole <clemc(a)ccc.com>
> To: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org>
> Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society <tuhs(a)tuhs.org>
> Subject: Re: [TUHS] We've lost Greg Chesson
> Message-ID:
> <CAC20D2MqtPfMe_SdkCfFFthF_5Rth8y2Q6U2xm-ZgbkAA0tQZg(a)mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Greg had been sick for a while. Sad loss.
> Clem
>
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 2:30 AM, Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> wrote:
>
>> Haven't found any more info...
>>
>> --
>> Dave Horsfall (VK2KFU) "Those who don't understand security will
>> suffer"
>> http://www.horsfall.org/ It's just a silly little web site, that's
>> all...
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2015 18:50:42 -0400
>> From: Dave Farber
>> To: ip <ip(a)listbox.com>
>> Subject: [IP] Death of Greg Chesson
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: "Lauren Weinstein"
>> Date: Jun 28, 2015 6:43 PM
>> Subject: Death of Greg Chesson
>> To: <dave(a)farber.net>
>> Cc:
>>
>>
>> Dave, fyi.
>>
>> https://plus.google.com/u/0/+LaurenWeinstein/posts/bRdbj1B1qQG
>>
>> --Lauren--
>> Lauren Weinstein (lauren(a)vortex.com) http://www.vortex.com/lauren
>> Founder:
>> - Network Neutrality Squad: http://www.nnsquad.org
>> - PRIVACY Forum: http://www.vortex.com/privacy-info
>> Co-Founder: People For Internet Responsibility:
>> http://www.pfir.org/pfir-info
>> Member: ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy
>> Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com
>> Google+: http://google.com/+LaurenWeinstein
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/laurenweinstein
>> Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 / Skype: vortex.com
>>
>> Archives [feed-icon-10x10.jpg] | Modify Your Subscription | Unsubscribe
>> Now
>> [listbox-logo-small.png]
>> _______________________________________________
>> TUHS mailing list
>> TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
>> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>>
>>
>
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Replacing Chad, was: Black tape
On Sun, 21 Jun 2015, Jones, Douglas W wrote:
> The flaws in the Votomatic were a bit subtle, but in retrospect, if you
> read the patents for the IBM Portapunch (the direct predecessor of the
> Votomatic) and for the Votomatic, you find that the flaw that was its
> eventual downfall -- at least in the public's mind -- is fully
> documented in the patents. Of course IBM's (and later CESI's, after IBM
> walked away from the Votomatic in the late 1960s) salesmen never
> mentioned those flaws.
Portapunch? Arrgghh!
We had to put up with that Satan-spawn in our University days... Only 40
columns wide, it had specific encodings for FORTRAN words, and it was just
as well that FORTRAN ignored white space (I know this for a fact, when I
fed a deck into a "real" card reader one time).
Being but mere impecunious Uni students and having to actually buy the
things, we resorted to fixing mis-punches by literally sticky-taping the
chads back.
For some reason, the computer operators (IBM 360/50) hated us...
I really do hope that the inventor of Portapunch is still having holes
punched through him with a paper-clip.
Anyone got Plan 9 4th edition manuals or Inferno Manuals? I will be
interested to buy them. Vitanuova used to sell them, but their payment
system is down for years now and has been brought up to Charles many
times, but it seem to be still down, so there is no way to buy it from
them.
--
Ramakrishnan
Hi All.
As mentioned a few weeks ago, I have a full set of the O'Reilly X11 books
from the early 90s.
I'm willing to send them on to a better home for the cost of mailing
from Israel.
One person said they were interested but didn't follow up with me, so
I'm again offering to the list. First one to get back to me wins. :-)
Thanks,
Arnold
Prompted by another thread, I decided to share about some of my
experience with providing printed BSD manuals.
I was given a 4.4BSD set with the understanding that I would work on
preparing new print editions using NetBSD. It was a significant
undertaking. I ended up just doing Section 8 System. Here is a summary
of what I did:
- Build the NetBSD distribution (which gets the manual pages generated
or at least put in place).
- Manual clean up, like remove a link to manual page that wasn't needed
and remove a duplicated manual (in two sub-sections).
- Learned about permuted index (the long KWIC index cross-reference).
Generated a list of characters and terms to ignore for building my
permuted index. Wrote script to generate it, including converting to
LaTeX using longtable. This resulted in 2937 entries and was 68 pages in
printed book.
- Create list of all an section 8 pages, pruned for duplicate inodes.
- Also have a list of 40 filenames of other manpages to include in the
man8 book. These are system maintenance procedures or commands that are
in wrong section or could be section 8 (or weren't installed). (Examples
are ipftest, pkg_admin, postsuper.)
- Generate a sorted list of all the manuals.
- Look for any missing manual pages. Script to check for libexec or sbin
tools not in man8, such as supfilesrv or supscan is really supservers.8
and missing kdigest.8. Get those files in place as needed. I cannot
remember now, but I think I may have wrote some missing manuals or got
others to submit some (officially).
- Script to make sure all man pages are in order. This found some
duplicate manual pages with different inodes, wrong man macro DT values,
wrong filename, wrong sections, etc. Some of these were reported
upstream or fixed.
- Script to create the book as a single huge postscript file, then a
PDF. Reviewed the possible ROFF related errors and warnings.
(On 2009-10-23, it was 1304 pdf pages from 572 manuals.)
- Script to figure out licenses. This was substantial! It looked for
copyright patterns in manual source, excluded junk formatting like
revision control markers, include some extra licenses that weren't
included in the manpage itself (like GPL2). Then another script to
generate LaTeX from the copyrights and licenses. It removed duplicate
license statements and sorted the copyrights. So some license
statements had many copyrights using the same license verbiage.
This represented 620 copyrighted files with approximately 683 copyright
lines and 109 different licenses. Yes 109! That resulted in
approximately 68 printed pages, pages 1461 through 1529. This didn't
duplicate any license verbiage. (I just realized that was the same
length as my permuted index.)
A few things to note: Some authors chose to use different names for
different copyright statements. Some authors used their names or
assigned the copyright to the project. Some licenses included software
or authors names instead of generic terms. Many BSD style licenses were
slightly changed with different grammar, etc. Many contributors created
own license or reworded someone else's existing license text. As an
example: "If it breaks then you get to keep both pieces." :)
The four most common license statements represented 113 "THE REGENTS AND
CONTRIBUTORS" manuals, 75 "THE NETBSD FOUNDATION, INC." manuals, and 35
"IBM" (aka Postfix) manuals, and 30 generic "THE AUTHOR AND
CONTRIBUTORS" manuals.
I found many were missing licenses. I hunted down original authors,
looked in CVS history, etc to help resolve some of these. I also
reported about still missing licenses to the project. We will assume
they meant it is open source and can be distributed since nobody has
complained for years (even prior to my printed work) :)
- Generated a list of required advertising acknowledgments in LaTeX to
import into one printed book (and for webpage).
- Split my long PDF into two volumes. Used LaTeX pdfpages package and
includepdf to include the generated PDFs. I made sure the page numbers
continued in the second book from end of previous volume. (After
printing, I realized a mistake where the second volume had odd numbers
on left pages, but order is still correct, so I assume nobody else
noticed.)
Historically, the System Manager's Manual (SMM) also included other
system installation and administration documentation (in addition to the
manual pages). My work didn't include that documentation (some of which
was unmaintained since 4.4BSD in 1993 and covers some software and
features that are no longer included with NetBSD). That could be another
project.
I only did the SMM / manual section 8. I realized if I did all manuals,
my book set would be well over ten thousand printed pages. The amount of
work and initial printing costs would not be worth it with the little
money it could bring in. It was certainly a learning experience, plus
some benefit such as cleanup of some mandoc/roff code, filename renames,
copyright/license additions, and manual pages added.
Jeremy C. Reed
echo 'EhZ[h ^jjf0%%h[[Zc[Z_W$d[j%Xeeai%ZW[ced#]dk#f[d]k_d%' | \
tr '#-~' '\-.-{'
