TUHS

tuhs@tuhs.org

28 participants
6556 discussions

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> Hi, we just read the second tape, which read without error. > ... > So at this point we have access to everything that was on that machine. So, in the process of transferring this all to a TAR file, we found a bug in BSD 4.1b. (The length of some directories whose last sector held only one entry was being incorrectly set to the actual length of the directory, not a multiple of the sector size.) Anyone know where I can report a BSD 4.1b bug? :-) Noel PS: Although the Algol-60 isn't there, there is a nice LISP (good enough to run The Doctor ... :-)

8 years, 6 months

Re: [TUHS] Early Internet work

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Nick Downing > is it possible for you to read the other tapes also? Hi, we just read the second tape, which read without error. It appears to be mostly the same stuff as the first, except that for some not-now-understood reason, a lot of the sub-directories in /src/src (the directory that held most of the sources) weren't there on the _first_ tape, but _are_ there on the _second_. So at this point we have access to everything that was on that machine. It's too long a list to go through, but here: http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/pdp11/tmp/csr2_edfiles.txt is an edited list of the files on the machine. Most of /usr/ has been deleted, since it contains a lot of personal files, the names of which I don't wish to make public. Alas, some of the code (e.g. the much of the MIT TCP/IP) was in some personal directories; it will take me a while to curate all that. Also, this machine did not contain everything that was done at MIT: one particularly saddening lacuna is that the Algol-60 (written for the 'Intro to programming for CS majors' course, 6.031 to those for whom that means anything) isn't there, along with its documentation. With that being _such_ an incredibly influential language, I'd really wanted to see a PDP-11 version made available. There's also an APL, and some missing subdirectories in the BCPL source directory ('henke', 'richards' and 'tenex'). Etc, etc. I have reached out to people at MIT, to see if a tape backup from the machine where all that was can be found; I will keep you all posted if anything shows up. > I would be particularly interested in the early 8080 compiler Yes, that's there ('c8080'), but object-only - it may have been something that was purchased from an outside vendor. There does seem like there might be an 8080-back end for the BCPL compiler. Noel

8 years, 6 months

Re: [TUHS] Early Internet work (Was: History of select(2))

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Paul Ruizendaal > Great! I'd love to take a look at all that. OK, it'll all be appearing once we have a chance to get organized (it's all mixed in with personal files). > That is very interesting. It may be related to the V6 with NCP from > UoI/DTI. I think it _is_ the V6 from UoI/DTI. The source has Gary (?) Grossman's and Steve Holmgren's name on it, and the headers say they date from 1074-75. > The printout does not have the kernel modifications with it, so it would > be great if your archive does include that. The archive does include the complete kernel, but i) the changes aren't listed in any way (I forsee a lot of 'diffs', unless you just take the entire kernel), ii) there's a file called 'history' which contains a long list of general changes/improvements of the kernel not really related to TCP/IP, by a long list of people, dated from the middle of '78 to the middle of '79. So it looks like he started with a considerably modified system. The only client code I see is User Telnet. (The MIT code has User and Server Telnet and FTP, as well as SMTP, but it uses a wholly different TCP interface.) Noel

8 years, 6 months

How Unix brings people together, or it's a small world

by David

Side story on Unix related to Xview. I go to a conference in San Jose for Sun users in the mid 80’s and am discussing Xview with a few folks (names lost to memory). A very nice person named Nancy Blackman walks up and joins the discussion. We get to talking and she has a weird memory bug and I’m willing to help her look at it. So we go to ‘her place’ which is her lab at Moffet field. We discuss her bug, find a fix and I go back home to San Diego. I mention that I met this very nice lady named Nancy Blackman at the conference to my wife. Turns out my wife went to school with Nancy before she moved to San Diego. So, who else has weird stories of how Unix development or Unix conferences had the side effect of making the world a smaller place. If this is too off topic, drop the conversation here. David > On Feb 1, 2017, at 1:52 PM, tuhs-request(a)minnie.tuhs.org wrote: > > Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 13:40:11 -0800 > From: Larry McVoy <lm(a)mcvoy.com> > To: Noel Chiappa <jnc(a)mercury.lcs.mit.edu> > Cc: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org > Subject: Re: [TUHS] shared memory on Unix > Message-ID: <20170201214011.GG880(a)mcvoy.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > On Wed, Feb 01, 2017 at 02:44:34PM -0500, Noel Chiappa wrote: >>> From: "Steve Johnson" >> >>> The meetings went on for over a year, but _I NEVER MET WITH THE SAME >>> PERSON TWICE!_ It seemed that the only thing the marketing group knew >>> how to do was reorganize the marketing group... >> >> Shades of SI:Electric-Marketing (I _think_ that was its name) on the Symbolics >> LISP Machine... >> >> (For those who never had the joy of seeing this, it randomly drew a bunch of >> boxes with people in them on the screen in a hierarchy, connected them, and >> then started randomly moving the boxes around... I wonder if the source >> still exists - or, better yet, a video of it running? Probably not, alas.) > > Sun had reorgtool (orgtool) that had all the high up people down to > directors I think and you pushed a button and it reshuffled them. > It was a Xview app, anyone remember that toolkit (I sorta miss it). > > --lm

8 years, 6 months

Names of famous, historical UNIX machines?

by Michael Kjörling

I hope this isn't too far off topic here. I've been meaning to rename the few systems I administer with names that reference famous (or at least somewhat well-known in the proper circles) historical UNIX systems, but I have been unable to find any lists of such names so have no real place to start. About the closest I _was_ able to find is the ARPANET map[1] of the late 1970s that is on Wikipedia and is occasionally circulated, but which gives mostly architecture, location and links, not any system (host) names. Short of unimaginative things like calling my home router IMP[2] or things like that, can anyone either suggest names with a bit of background (where they were, what hardware, what time period, etc.), or point me toward online resources where I can find lists of those? [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Arpanet_logical_map,_march_1977.png [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interface_Message_Processor -- Michael Kjörling • https://michael.kjorling.se • michael(a)kjorling.se “People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we don’t.” (Bjarne Stroustrup)

8 years, 6 months

Re: [TUHS] PDP 11/34a Serial Communications Problem

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Mark Hare <markhare(a)buffalo.edu> > I believe I have found the problem. Excellent! > Looking at the DL11-W, I saw that there is an uncovered trace on the > circuit board just below the pins of the BERG connector. It appears > that the exposed conductor ends of the cable were making contact with > this trace, which shorted the entire cable together. Shorting any set of DL11-W pins together still shouldn't have caused that symptom, AFAICS. I'm too lazy to pull out a DL11-W, and prints thereof, to check, but I suspect that what actually happened is that trace carries some 'interesting' signal, and it got grounded 'or something' by the exposed ends of the flat cable. > I'm just glad that there doesn't appear to be any lasting damage. Indeed! I was worried about that... Noel

8 years, 6 months

Re: [TUHS] PDP 11/34a Serial Communications Problem

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Mark Hare > For a more permanent solution, I designed a simple adapter board that > connects to the BERG 40 connector on the DL11-W and converts it to a DB9 > serial port ... I also ordered a 40-pin (non-IDE) ribbon cable to > connect the DL11-W to my adapter. > When I connected everything, the 11/34 would start but no lights would > appear on the front panel. I tried disconnecting the adapter but leaving > the ribbon cable plugged into the BERG connector, but the problem > persisted. When I removed the ribbon cable entirely, the unit powered on > with no problems. That's extremely odd. There isn't a pin on the DL11-W Berg connector which should be able to cause anything like that kind of behaviour. The only _possible_ thing I can think of, looking at the list of signals on the Berg, is that you are grounding +5 (TT). Either that, or your DL11-W has some serious issue? > Since this is a straight-through ribbon cable, I don't see what could be > causing this problem. Me either. But clearly it's not just a straight-through ribbon cable.... I myself wouldn't have gone that route; one can obtain 40-pin IDE/DuPont (they are all .1" spacing pins, and basically interchangeable, module keying) connector shells, and female pins for same; I would have made a custom cable to plug into the Berg with that, to a DE-9S or DB-9P connector (depending on whether one wanted one wired as a DCE or DTE). (I myself make such cables, but to a DB-25S connector, and then use a commercial DB-25P to DE-9S adapter when needed.) Oh well... Does the DL11-W still work, using the jumper cables kludge? Noel

8 years, 6 months

PDP 11/34a Serial Communications Problem

by Mark Hare

Hello all, This is my first time emailing the list, so please let me know if this doesn't belong here of if I'm breaking any rules. A few months ago, I rescued a PDP 11/34a with 2 RL01 drives from the scrap heap. The unit appears to work fine based on my limited front-panel testing. I haven't gotten the drives running yet since someone cut the power cords when the cabinet was being removed. There is a DL11-W serial line unit/realtime clock (M7856) installed in the 11/34 that I want to use for serial input/output. I have configured the card for 9600 baud, 8N1. Using some jumper wires, I carefully connected the card to a serial cable and a computer running a terminal and I was able to send some characters back and forth successfully. For a more permanent solution, I designed a simple adapter board that connects to the BERG 40 connector on the DL11-W and converts it to a DB9 serial port (In restrospect, this product was already available at https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/uTMf3v08 but I didn't know about that at the time). I also ordered a 40-pin (non-IDE) ribbon cable to connect the DL11-W to my adapter. When I connected everything, the 11/34 would start but no lights would appear on the front panel. I tried disconnecting the adapter but leaving the ribbon cable plugged into the BERG connector, but the problem persisted. When I removed the ribbon cable entirely, the unit powered on with no problems. Since this is a straight-through ribbon cable, I don't see what could be causing this problem. I have checked the continuity of each wire in the cable, and there doesn't appear to be a problem. I'd appreciate any advice that anyone has to offer. Yours, Mark D. Hare markhare(a)buffalo.edu University at Buffalo B. S. Civil Engineering '16 M. S. Structural/Earthquake Engineering Student

8 years, 6 months

Re: [TUHS] Names of famous, historical UNIX machines?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Clem Cole > don't expect a lot of wild and crazy names Yeah, those arrived when places started to get lots of identical machines, and needed a theme to name them. So I remember MIT-LCS had VAX 750's called Tide, Borax, etc (cleaners); MIT-AI had Suns called Grape-Nuts, Wheaties, etc (cereals). I know other places had similar name sets, but I can't recall the themes of any of them - although looking at an old HOSTS.TXT, I see CMU had systems called Faraday, Gauss, etc, while Purdue had Fermat, Newton, etc; U-Texas had Disney characters, BBN had fish, U-Washington had South Pacific islands - the list just goes on and on. Google for a old Host file, that's a good source if you want to know more. Noel

8 years, 6 months

Happy birthday, Ken Thompson!

by Dave Horsfall

Co-inventor of Unix, he was born on this day in 1943. Just think: without those two, we'd all be running M$ Windoze and thinking that it's wonderful. -- Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU) "Those who don't understand security will suffer."

8 years, 6 months

Re: [TUHS] How Unix brings people together, or it's a small world

by Doug McIlroy

As a tourist in Christchurch NZ in 1982, I saw a notice of a student piano recital at the university. Free, why not? The fellow who sat next to me turned out to be a phyicist. On learning that I was a computer scientist, he proudly described his wonderful new computer and operating system--the first of its kind in the university, if I remember correctly. I let on that I was familiar with it, so we both left the recital with a small-world story to tell. Doug

8 years, 6 months

Re: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 15, Issue 13

by Doug McIlroy

Charmant. 75k more on your next Loire chateaux tour. Poor Margate Lucy, rooted in (mostly) one place for 135 years. d

8 years, 6 months

Re: [TUHS] Names of famous, historical UNIX machines?

by Rudi Blom

Slartibartfast brings back fond memories of THHGTTG. Of course those in IT simply know that with a Guide and a towel there's no need to panic :-) Cheers, rudi

8 years, 6 months

shared memory on Unix

by Paul Ruizendaal

The presence of some sort of shared memory facility in the BBN V6 Unix kernel got me thinking about the origins of shared memory on Unix. I had a vague recollection that primordial versions were present in either PWB or CB3, but a quick glance at the source indicates that this is not correct. What are the origins of shared memory on Unix, i.e. what came before mmap() and SysV IPC? Was the BBN kernel the first to implement such a facility on Unix? Paul

8 years, 6 months

Questions for TUHS great minds

by Robert Swierczek

Not so long ago I joked about putting a Cray-1 in a watch. Now that we are essentially living in the future, what audacious (but realistic) architectures can we imagine under our desks in 25 years? Perhaps a mesh of ten-million of today's highest end CPU/GPU pairs bathing in a vast sea of non-volatile memory? What new abstractions are needed in the OS to handle that? Obviously many of the current command line tools would need rethinking (ps -ef for instance.) Or does the idea of a single OS disintegrate into a fractal cloud of zero-cost VM's? What would a meta-OS need to manage that? Would we still recognize it as a Unix?

8 years, 6 months

Re: [TUHS] Names of famous, historical UNIX machines?

by Berny Goodheart

You might find this interesting reading: http://www.livinginternet.com/u/ui_netexplodes.htm <http://www.livinginternet.com/u/ui_netexplodes.htm> In particular inhp4. I used to have a UUCP map that linked me into this network back in the mid 80s. I was based in the UK doing some work for Henry Spencer at Microport Systems if any of you recall their iX286 System V port, which was pretty cool. Anyway, there are some interesting machine names mentioned. From: smb(a)ulysses.att.com Subject: Re: IHNP4 Date: Thu, 25 Oct 90 20:48:42 EDT > Thus, ihnp4 was Indian Hill Network Processor #4 > mh was Murray Hill. ak was the Atlanta Wire Works, sb was Southern > Bell, cb was Columbus (Mark Horton was mark@cbosgd for a long time) > plus others. Yup, Columbus Operating Systems Group D, as I recall. > Then there were the machines in the lab that had (and have) names like > bonnie, clyde, ulysses, research, allegra, lento, harpo, chico, etc.

8 years, 6 months

Re: [TUHS] Names of famous, historical UNIX machines?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Clem Cole > my printers have often been named after chainsaws Yeah, MIT (or was it Proteon, I forget - a long time ago :-) had that theme going for a while for printers... > @ DEC we were pretty free to use what we wanted and some were themed, > most were boring. Hah! I do have a cosmically great computer naming story from DEC, though. So DECNet host names were limited to N characters (where N=8, or some such). So one day they get this complaint from some DEC user in the UK: "Grumble, grumble, grumble, N-character limit in DECNet host names, we want to name our host 'Slartibartfast'." So, this being before a certain radio play had hit the US from the UK, the people at DEC were like: "What's a 'Slartibartfast'???" Instantly, the reply shot back (and perhaps some of you saw this coming): "Boy, you guys are so unhip it's a wonder your pants down fall down!" :-) :-) Noel

8 years, 6 months

Re: [TUHS] shared memory on Unix

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: "Steve Johnson" > The meetings went on for over a year, but _I NEVER MET WITH THE SAME > PERSON TWICE!_ It seemed that the only thing the marketing group knew > how to do was reorganize the marketing group... Shades of SI:Electric-Marketing (I _think_ that was its name) on the Symbolics LISP Machine... (For those who never had the joy of seeing this, it randomly drew a bunch of boxes with people in them on the screen in a hierarchy, connected them, and then started randomly moving the boxes around... I wonder if the source still exists - or, better yet, a video of it running? Probably not, alas.) Noel

8 years, 6 months

v6 lecture notes

by helbig＠mailbox.org

Hi, my site at the ba-stuttgart was removed. It hosted course ware for my unix v6 lecture. This includes: Unix Programmer's Manual (aka man pages) Documents for use with the Unix Time-Sharing System prepared as postscript files. I provided the man pages as HTML-pages with the references replaced by links. The lecture notes contain tips for installing v6 on the simh emulator, a description of the pdp11 instruction set and hardware as well as a description of unix v6, including booting, kernel and user land software. So if anyone is interested let me know. Greetings Wolfgang Helbig Stauferstr. 22 71334 Waiblingen Germany

8 years, 6 months

Re: [TUHS] PDP-10 in the news today

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Nigel Williams > Is it a reasonable claim that the PDP-10 made time-sharing "common" > ... I'm presuming that "common" should be read as ubiquitous and > accessible > I'm wondering if it was really the combination of the PDP-11 Good question; I think a case can be made both ways. > (lower-cost more models) One observation I will make: the two don't have identical time-lines; the earliest PDP-10 models predate the PDP-11 by a good chunk, and the PDP-11 out-lasted the PDP-10. So that has a big influence, I think, on the question above. The first PDP-10 (the KA - we'll leave aside the even earlier PDP-6) was made out of small cards with individual transistors (B-series Flip Chips), whereas the earliest PDP-11 model (the -11/20) used SSI TTL on much larger cards. Ditto on the other end: the last PDP-10 sold used 29xx bit-slice technology, whereas the PDP-11 lasted through three generations of microprocessor (the LSI-11, Fonz, and Jaws). Noel

8 years, 6 months

Re: [TUHS] PDP-10 in the news today

by Nelson H. F. Beebe

Nigel Williams <nw(a)retrocomputingtasmania.com> asks on the TUHS list today: >> ... >> Is it a reasonable claim that the PDP-10 made time-sharing "common" >> (note it says "the machine")? I'm presuming that "common" should be >> read as ubiquitous and accessible (as in lower-cost than >> competing/alternative options from other manufacturers or even DEC). >> >> I'm wondering if it was really the combination of the PDP-11 >> (lower-cost more models) and Unix ("free" license to universities) >> that propelled time-sharing, at least at universities. >> ... I worked on the IBM ATS (Administrative Terminal System) for text processing in the early 1970s, and for several years, on the CDC 6400 under both SCOPE and KRONOS operating systems. Those were mainframe environments, but users scattered around campus accessed them via glass terminals, so that was certainly time sharing. Later, for 12 years (1978--1990), I also worked on TOPS-20 on the PDP-10, and that too was time sharing, with most users having a terminal on their desks. We also had PDP-11 and LSI-11 systems, but they ran DEC proprietary operating systems, and were generally dedicated to particular research hardware. It was only in the early 1980s that my institution also began to run Unix systems, initially Wollongong BSD on VAX 750s, and then in 1987, with our first Sun workstations running SunOS. Thus, for me at least, Unix time sharing came a dozen years late (though it was still welcome, and remains so today). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - University of Utah FAX: +1 801 581 4148 - - Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB Internet e-mail: beebe(a)math.utah.edu - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe(a)acm.org beebe(a)computer.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/ - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

8 years, 6 months

PDP-10 in the news today

by Nelson H. F. Beebe

This story appears today in The Register: PDP-10 enthusiasts resurrect ancient MIT operating system Incompatible Timesharing System now compatible with modern machines https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/01/30/pdp10_enthusiasts_resurrect_ancien… Near the end of the story is a mention of SIMH and of KLH10, both of which emulate the PDP-10. There is also mention of a PDP-11 emulator running inside ITS. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - University of Utah FAX: +1 801 581 4148 - - Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB Internet e-mail: beebe(a)math.utah.edu - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe(a)acm.org beebe(a)computer.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/ - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

8 years, 6 months

Re: [TUHS] PDP-10 in the news today

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Lars Brinkhoff > several debuggers called RUG and CARPET SYSENG;CARPET > and SYSENG;KLRUG > (and also SYSEN2;URUG >). CARPET runs in the PDP-10, and talks to the 11's via the Rubin 10-11 interface on MIT-AI (which let the PDP-10 see into the PDP-11s' memory); it installed a small toehold in the 11 (e.g. for trap handling). There was also a version (conditionalized in the source) called "Hali" ("Hali is Carpet over a [serial] line") - 'hali' is Turkish for 'carpet' (I wonder how someone knew that). RUG runs in the front-end 11 on the KL (MIT-MC). URUG is a really simple version of RUG that runs in a GT40, and use the GT40 display for output. There's also 11DDT (KLDCP;11DDT >) - not sure why both this and KLRUG exist - unless RUG was for the front-end 11, and 11DDT was for the I/O-11? Noel

8 years, 6 months

Re: [TUHS] PDP-10 in the news today

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> There is also mention of a PDP-11 emulator running inside ITS. SYSENG;11SIM > Noel

8 years, 6 months

Re: [TUHS] Early Internet work (Was: History of select(2))

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Paul Ruizendaal >> the headers say they date from 1974-75. > Wow, that's great! That means that you have the initial version. The file write dates are May 1979, so that's the latest it can be. There is one folder called 'DTI' which contains an email message from someone at DTI to someone at SRI which is dated "10 Apr 1979" so that seems to indicate that that's indeed when they are from. (The message says that the folder contains the source for DTI's IMP-11A driver, which is different from UIll's, although they both descend from the same original version.) > Possibly it is V5 not V6 Nope, definitely V6 here. > All my leads for the 1975 version of this code base came up dry and I > feared it lost. I could have sworn that I'd seen _listings_ of the code in a UIllinois document about NCP Unix that I had found (and downloaded) on the Internet, but I can't find them here now. I did look again and found: "A Network Unix System for the Arpanet", by Karl C. Kelley, Richard Balocca, and Jody Kravitz but it doesn't contain any sources. > it may contain the first version of 'mbufs' It might - the code is conditionalized for "UCBUFMOD" all over the place. > Yes, a 'history' file seems to have been common practice at BBN. The > kernel would have had many modifications: > - the 'ports' extension from Rand Yes. > - the 'await' extension by Jack Haverty Yup. > - an 1822-driver Yes (also by Haverty) - although IMP11-A drivers are all over the place, there are two different ones in the NCP Unix alone. > - possibly, an Autodin II network driver Didn't see one. > - possibly, shared memory extensions Yes, there are two module in 'ken', map_page.c and set_lcba.c (I was unable to work out what 'LCBA' stood for) which seem to do something with mapping. > It might even have some NCP code in it Yes, there's an 'ncpkernel' directory. > There seem to have been two versions of the BBN modified kernel. One was > done for systems without separate I/D with stuff heavily trimmed Yes, there's a 'SMALL' preprocessor flag which conditionally removes some stuff. > The other may have extended the V6 kernel to run in separate I and D > spaces That capability was present in stock V6. Noel

8 years, 6 months

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TUHS