TUHS August 2018

tuhs@tuhs.org

88 participants
53 discussions

by Dave Horsfall

We gained Marvin Minsky on this day in 1927; he was an AI researcher, computer scientist, invented neural networks etc, and is now thought to be cryogenically preserved. -- Dave

6 years, 4 months

Origins of shell prompt suffixes % $ > #

by Brian Zick

Hi, I usually just lurk on this list, but I've been curious lately about the origin of the symbols at the end of various interactive prompts. ksh (etc), bash, sh use $ for non-root, and # for root csh, tcsh and zsh use % for non-root and # for root fish and things like mysql, ftp, and interactive shells for a lot of scripting languages use > rc uses ; Where do these different conventions originate? B

6 years, 4 months

Misuse of TUHS Digest [Was: Re: TUHS Digest, Vol 33, Issue 7]

by Nemo

Maybe I am being a tad sensitive this morn but... >> On 8 Aug 2018, at 04:00, tuhs-request(a)minnie.tuhs.org wrote: [...] >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of TUHS digest..." let us please honour this request. Thank you. N. [Lots and lots and lots of stuff removed]

6 years, 4 months

Re: [TUHS] Origins of shell prompt suffixes % $ > #

by Doug McIlroy

> The Bourne shell (V7) had setable PS1 (start of command) and PS2 (continuation prompts) When PS2 came on the scene, Bob Morris noticed that it most often appeared because of a missing close quote. Therefore he set PS2="hit interrupt".

6 years, 4 months

Re: [TUHS] In Memoriam: Edsger Dijkstra, and happy birthday Jon Postel!

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Dave Horsfall > However, we gained Jon Postel in 1943; with umpteen RFCs to his name, he > could pretty much be described as the Father of the Internet. The problem with using the number of documents as a gauge for that is that Jon often acted as scribe, so that for many things published under his name, he was acting more as editor. As to who (if anyone) does deserve that title, I'm also not sure about the importance of Cerf and Kahn. NOTE: I am not saying they _didn't_ make the key contribution - I just haven't looked into it in enough detail to say. For example, before the TCP/IP effort got rolling, there was something called the International Packet Network Working Group (INWG) which had a big role, but which has been poorly documented. There's a note called "The Internet: On its International Origins and Collaborative Vision" by Rhonda Hauben, available here: http://www.columbia.edu/~rh120/other/misc/haubenpap.rtf which covers it some, and there's a more recent thing by Alex Mackenzie which is probably better, but I'm too lazy to go find it. Louis Pouzin (or whoever it was at CYCLADES who actually had the idea to move the reliability out of the packet switches, and into the hosts), also would have a good claim to the title. Anyway, sorry for the offtopic, but my 'fake history' alarm went off... Noel

6 years, 4 months

Latest Kernighan interview on Youtube

by Warren Toomey

in 3 parts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmYhR8cUX90 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVpRj3Po6K4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6vtRm5M8I0 Cheers, Warren

6 years, 4 months

Re: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 33, Issue 5

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> I'm not into that stuff, so I point you in the right direction. ^ Sorry, lost a "can't" there. Noel

6 years, 4 months

Re: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 33, Issue 5

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Bakul Shah > What counts as a "formal spec"? If you aren't familiar with the work in the field (it's been going on long enough, it was around when I was an undergrad), some of the earlier messages in the thread, e.g.: https://minnie.tuhs.org//pipermail/tuhs/2018-August/014365.html might provide some thing you could follow. (I'm not into that stuff, so I point you in the right direction.) Noel

6 years, 4 months

Re: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 33, Issue 5

by Steve Simon

well spec’ed machines where more common in the past. we had all the source for the interdata 3210 at college. we had the edition 7 source, the driver source, the diagnostic tape source, and even all the schematics. two of the lecturers even upgraded it from 1mb to 4mb of RAM, complete with address decoders on their backs with their legs in the air. -Steve > On 6 Aug 2018, at 03:00, tuhs-request(a)minnie.tuhs.org wrote: > > Send TUHS mailing list submissions to > tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tuhs > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > tuhs-request(a)minnie.tuhs.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > tuhs-owner(a)minnie.tuhs.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of TUHS digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: In Memoriam: Per Brinch Hansen (Perry E. Metzger) > 2. Latest Kernighan interview on Youtube (Warren Toomey) > 3. In Memoriam: Edsger Dijkstra, and happy birthday Jon Postel! > (Dave Horsfall) > 4. Re: In Memoriam: Edsger Dijkstra, and happy birthday Jon > Postel! (Noel Chiappa) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2018 19:18:18 -0400 > From: "Perry E. Metzger" <perry(a)piermont.com> > To: Doug McIlroy <doug(a)cs.dartmouth.edu> > Cc: tuhs(a)tuhs.org > Subject: Re: [TUHS] In Memoriam: Per Brinch Hansen > Message-ID: <20180805191818.0ac05b0f(a)jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > On Thu, 02 Aug 2018 08:44:56 -0400 Doug McIlroy > <doug(a)cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote: >> A tangential connection to early Unix experience: >> >> My collection of early computer manuals includes Brinch Hansen's >> manual for the RC 4000, which stands out for its precise >> description of the CPU logic--in Algol 60! It's the only manual I >> have seen that offers a good-to-the-last-bit formal description of >> the hardware. >> >> DEC presented something of the sort for the PDP-11, but punted where >> the woods got thick. When I wanted to know how they computed the >> last bit of floating-point results, I got no satisfaction. Amidst a >> thorough description of addressing came this formulation of the >> actual computation: "form floating point result". > > For those that are familiar with the RISC V architecture, there's a > formal specification of the architecture that was done in a system > built on Coq, and also a fully formally verified translation of the > specification into RTL. (The spec didn't include floating point as of > about a year ago but it may by now.) > > A good overview of the system involved is here: > > http://plv.csail.mit.edu/kami/papers/icfp17.pdf > > Followups might belong on the coff list, not sure. > > Perry > -- > Perry E. Metzger perry(a)piermont.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 09:53:19 +1000 > From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)tuhs.org> > To: tuhs(a)tuhs.org > Subject: [TUHS] Latest Kernighan interview on Youtube > Message-ID: <20180805235319.GA14811(a)minnie.tuhs.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > in 3 parts: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmYhR8cUX90 > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVpRj3Po6K4 > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6vtRm5M8I0 > > Cheers, Warren > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 10:04:17 +1000 (EST) > From: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> > To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society <tuhs(a)tuhs.org> > Subject: [TUHS] In Memoriam: Edsger Dijkstra, and happy birthday Jon > Postel! > Message-ID: > <alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.1808060955320.79568(a)aneurin.horsfall.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > What a weird day... > > We lost computer pioneer Edsger Dijkstra in 2002; he gave us ALGOL, > structured programming, semaphores, and ranted against the GOTO statement > (much to the distress of the Fortranites and their spaghetti coding). > Oh, and a certain Prof. Goto used to complain that everybody wanted to > eliminate him :-) > > However, we gained Jon Postel in 1943; with umpteen RFCs to his name, he > could pretty much be described as the Father of the Internet. > > -- > Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU) "Those who don't understand security will suffer." > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2018 21:15:45 -0400 (EDT) > From: jnc(a)mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) > To: tuhs(a)tuhs.org > Cc: jnc(a)mercury.lcs.mit.edu > Subject: Re: [TUHS] In Memoriam: Edsger Dijkstra, and happy birthday > Jon Postel! > Message-ID: <20180806011545.29C1F18C09A(a)mercury.lcs.mit.edu> > >> From: Dave Horsfall > >> However, we gained Jon Postel in 1943; with umpteen RFCs to his name, he >> could pretty much be described as the Father of the Internet. > > The problem with using the number of documents as a gauge for that is that Jon > often acted as scribe, so that for many things published under his name, he > was acting more as editor. > > As to who (if anyone) does deserve that title, I'm also not sure about the > importance of Cerf and Kahn. NOTE: I am not saying they _didn't_ make the key > contribution - I just haven't looked into it in enough detail to say. > > For example, before the TCP/IP effort got rolling, there was something called > the International Packet Network Working Group (INWG) which had a big role, > but which has been poorly documented. There's a note called "The Internet: On > its International Origins and Collaborative Vision" by Rhonda Hauben, > available here: > > http://www.columbia.edu/~rh120/other/misc/haubenpap.rtf > > which covers it some, and there's a more recent thing by Alex Mackenzie which > is probably better, but I'm too lazy to go find it. > > Louis Pouzin (or whoever it was at CYCLADES who actually had the idea to move > the reliability out of the packet switches, and into the hosts), also would > have a good claim to the title. > > > Anyway, sorry for the offtopic, but my 'fake history' alarm went off... > > Noel > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > TUHS mailing list > TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tuhs > > ------------------------------ > > End of TUHS Digest, Vol 33, Issue 5 > ***********************************

6 years, 4 months

In Memoriam: Edsger Dijkstra, and happy birthday Jon Postel!

by Dave Horsfall

What a weird day... We lost computer pioneer Edsger Dijkstra in 2002; he gave us ALGOL, structured programming, semaphores, and ranted against the GOTO statement (much to the distress of the Fortranites and their spaghetti coding). Oh, and a certain Prof. Goto used to complain that everybody wanted to eliminate him :-) However, we gained Jon Postel in 1943; with umpteen RFCs to his name, he could pretty much be described as the Father of the Internet. -- Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU) "Those who don't understand security will suffer."

6 years, 4 months

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TUHS August 2018