I've assembled some notes from old manuals and other sources
on the formats used for on-disk file systems through the
Seventh Edition:
http://www.cita.utoronto.ca/~norman/old-unix/old-fs.html
Additional notes, comments on style, and whatnot are welcome.
(It may be sensible to send anything in the last two categories
directly to me, rather than to the whole list.)
Hi,
I successfully made SIMH VAX-11/780 emulator run 32V, 3BSD and 4.0BSD.
Details are on my web site (thogh rather tarse):
http://zazie.tom-yam.or.jp/starunix/
Enjoy!
Naoki Hamada
nao(a)tom-yam.or.jp
Yo Jacob,
I'm ex-sun but I don't know too much about Illumos. Care to give us
the summary of why I might care about it?
On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 01:16:00AM -0500, Jacob Ritorto wrote:
> Hey, thanks, Derrik.
> I don't mess with Linux much (kind of an Illumos junkie by trade ;), but
> I bet gcc would. I did out of curiosity do it with the Macintosh cc (Apple
> LLVM version 5.1 (clang-503.0.40) (based on LLVM 3.4svn)) and it throws
> warnings about our not type-defining functions because you're apparently
> supposed to do this explicitly these days, but it dutifully goes on to
> assume int and compiles our test K&R stuff mostly fine. It does
> unfortunately balk pretty badly at the naked returns we initially had,
> though. Wish it didn't because it strikes me as being beautifully simple..
>
> thx again for the encouragement!
> jake
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 1:02 AM, Derrik Walker v2.0 <dwalker(a)doomd.net>
> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 2014-12-31 at 00:44 -0500, Jacob Ritorto wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > P.S. if anyone's bored enough, you can check out what we're up to at
> > > https://github.com/srphtygr/dhb. I'm trying to get my 11yo kid to
> > > spend a little time programming rather than just playing video games
> > > when he's near a computer. He'a actually getting through this stuff
> > > and is honestly interested when he understands it and sees it work --
> > > and he even spotted a bug before me this afternoon! Feel free to
> > > raise issues, pull requests, etc. if you like -- I'm putting him
> > > through the git committing and pair programming paces, so outside
> > > interaction would be kinda fun :)
> > >
> > >
> > > P.P.S. We're actually using 2.11bsd after all..
> > >
> > I'm curious, will gcc on a modern Linux system compile K&R c?
> >
> > Maybe when I get a little time, I might try to see if I can compile it
> > on a modern Fedora 21 system with gcc.
> >
> > BTW: Great job introducing him to such a classic environment. A few
> > years ago, my now 18 year old had expressed some interest in graphics
> > programming and was in awe over an SGI O2 I had at the time, so I got
> > him an Indy. He played around with a bit of programming, but
> > unfortunately, he lost interest.
> >
> > - Derrik
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TUHS mailing list
> > TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
> > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
> >
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
--
---
Larry McVoy lm at mcvoy.comhttp://www.mcvoy.com/lm
On 2014-12-31 21:14, Clem Cole<clemc(a)ccc.com> wrote:
>
> Jake - you have lots of help from others and using curses(3) is definitely
> the right way to program.
>
> But to answer your specific question about printf(string), according to
> Chapter 3 (Programmer's Info) of my old VT-100 user's guide, I think what
> is you are doing wrong is that "\033c" is not the ANSI clear to end of
> screen command.
Right...
> When I saw your message on my iPhone last night, the cache said - wait that
> can't be correct. But I could not remember why. So I had to wait until
> I got back home today to look in my basement.
>
> As I suspected, it's not an ANSI sequence. So are you running in VT-100
> (ANSI) mode or VT52 mode? I ask because it is close to the VT52 cursor
> right command which is actually: "\033C" but I do not remember is case
> mattered.
Case do matter.
> In VT52 mode you need to send the terminal: "\033H\033J" to clear the
> screen.
>
> In ANSI mode, it becomes: "\033[1;1\033[0J"
Shorter form: "\033[H\033[J"
> A few things to remember:
> 1.) Clear takes the current cursor position and clears from there to end of
> X (where X depends on mode, and type of clear). So you need to move the
> cursor to home position (aka 1,1).
Not really. It's way more advanced than that.
If we start with the generic clear screen, it is CSI Pn J
Where CSI can be expressed as ESC [ (or "\033[" in the same parlance as
above.)
Pn, then is an argument to the function, while J is the actual function
(clear screen in this case).
Now, Pn can cause many things:
0 Clear from cursor to end of screen
1 Clear from cursor to end of screen
2 Clear from beginning of screen to cursor
3 Clear whole screen
If no argument is given, the default is 0.
> 2.) VT-100's did not implement the full ANSI spec like Ann Arbor, Heathkit,
> Wyse etc. So there are a number of things that those terminals did
> better. A really good reason to you curses(3) because all the knowledge is
> keep in the termcap and as a programmer you don't need to worry about it.
Probably true. However, I'm not sure Ann Arbor or Heathkit did much
better. As far as I can remember, they were always more "weird", but I
might just be confused. However, curses(3) is definitely a good way of
not having to care about different terminal oddities.
> 3.) I saw sites were VT52 mode was sometimes preferred because it was good
> enough for most editing, and needed fewer chars to do manipulation. On
> slow serial lines, this sometimes was helpful. That said, give me an AAA
> any day. Like others, I still miss that terminal.:-)
Yeah, the VT52 was simpler, and had shorter control strings. But of
course, with the additional limitations that came with that.
Personally, I'd give an AAA or a Heathkit away if one was dropped on me.
A VT100 I would keep. :-)
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt(a)softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
, but I can't see how you're supposed to clear the screen on a vt100 in
2.9BSD. I guess printf'ing ("\033c") would do the trick, but I assumed
there was a more proper way; something that leverages the vt100 termcap
entry and does the right thing. Anyone?
thx
jake
Evening all,
Am I correct in my guess that 4.4BSD was built cross on an HP300? I have
never found a binary dist of anything other than HP300 4.4...and my
attempts to build 4.4 on ULTRIX/SunOS have so far not succeeded...it had
to have been built SOMEHOW.
I picked up an HP300 to help me get somewhere...but it seems to only have
a 68010. :(
I either need to find a definitive 68020-minimum one on ebay...someone
with one available...or some tips of actually cross-building 4.4 for MIPS
or SPARCv7 (I have physical hardware for either)
I am very determined to run pure 4.4 on something bigger than a PIC32. ;)
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
> From: Mary Ann Horton <mah(a)mhorton.net>
> I loved my Ambassador!
Ditto!
> Still have one.
Argh! Now you've made me want one for my vintage -11's! Alas, I don't see one
on eBay.... :-(
Noel
The information give is correct. You could possibly argue that you
shouldn't be using those functions, but should be using the curses(3)
library instead, which in turn uses this stuff... But it's all up to how
complex you want to be. :-)
Johnny
On 2014-12-31 07:16, Jacob Ritorto<jacob.ritorto(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Mary, this is exactly what I needed -- good to go now; thank you!
>
> As a side note: Man, what an intimidating can of braindamage I've opened!:)
>
> thanks all!
> jake
>
> P.S. if anyone's bored enough, you can check out what we're up to at
> https://github.com/srphtygr/dhb. I'm trying to get my 11yo kid to spend a
> little time programming rather than just playing video games when he's near
> a computer. He'a actually getting through this stuff and is honestly
> interested when he understands it and sees it work -- and he even spotted a
> bug before me this afternoon! Feel free to raise issues, pull requests,
> etc. if you like -- I'm putting him through the git committing and pair
> programming paces, so outside interaction would be kinda fun:)
>
> P.P.S. We're actually using 2.11bsd after all..
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 9:33 PM, Mary Ann Horton<mah(a)mhorton.net> wrote:
>
>> >This is the right info. Be sure to scroll up to see how to use tgetent,
>> >tgetstr, and tputs. You aren't likely to need any padding.
>> >
>> >Essentially:
>> > tgetent using getenv("TERM") gets you the whole entry from
>> >/etc/termcap
>> > tgetstr of "cl" gets you the "clear"
>> >sequence
>> > tputs outputs the "clear"
>> >sequence
>> >
>> >
>> >On 12/30/2014 06:22 PM, Dan Stromberg wrote:
>> >
>>> >>Check outhttps://www.gnu.org/software/termutils/manual/termcap-1.3/
>>> >>html_mono/termcap.html#SEC30
>>> >>- especially the "cl" entry.
>>> >>
>>> >>ISTR the database being at /etc/termcap normally.
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt(a)softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
This was brought to my attention on another mailing list.
"Marking a new chapter for one of the country’s most architecturally
and historically significant buildings, Somerset Development has
announced a new name for the iconic former Bell Labs complex in
Holmdel, N.J. The two-million-square-foot building – now named Bell
Works – is currently undergoing a more than $100-million adaptive
reuse redevelopment that will transform the facility into a dynamic
mixed-use center.”
http://patch.com/new-jersey/holmdel-hazlet/somerset-development-unveils-bel…http://bell.works/
> From: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org>
> a 9-track tape followed me home, but even if I knew where it was now it
> ain't gonna be readable after over 30 years...
Umm, don't be too sure!
I have several sets of backup tapes from one of the V6 machines at MIT, and
those are also roughly 30 years old, and they are not in the best shape (they
sat in my basement for most of that time). I sent one off to someone who
specializes in reading old tapes, and he's gotten almost all the bits off of
it (a few records had unrecoverable read errors, but the vast majority were
OK - like roughly 15 read errors in around 1500 records).
So do look for that tape (unless the material is all already online).
I hope to annouce a vast trove of stuff soon from my tapes (once I figure out
how to interpret the bits - they are written by a sui generis application
called 'saveRVD', and the _only_ documentation of how it did it is... on that
tape! :-) That includes a lot of code written at MIT, as well as stuff
from elsewhere.
Coming sbould be BCPL, Algol, LISP and some other languages; MACRO-11 and the
DEC linker (which I guess are also available from UNSW tapes),but _also_
programs to convert back and forth from .REL to a.out format, and to .LDA
format; and a whole ton of other applications (I have no idea what all is
there - if anyone is interested, I can make a pass through my manuals and try
and make a list).
Noel
