Arnold forwraded this to me:
> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:35:40 -0400
> From: Pat Villani <Pat.Villani(a)hp.com>
> To: tuhs(a)tuhs.org
> Subject: [TUHS] While on the subject of 32V ...
>
> Folks,
>
> I recently copied down the 32V source, and compiled the kernel with gcc. Much
> to my surprise, most of it compiled. I then split out the machine dependent
> versus the machine independent files (loose classification :-), and compiled
> again. Naturally, in both cases, you could not actually build a kernel because
> there are vax specific .s files, but the individual C files compiled. Not a bad
> start.
>
> As a result, I've been giving serious consideration to porting it to Intel IA32
> platforms. It's much simpler than the unix I worked on until last year (Tru64,
> aka OSF/1 and Digital UNIX), and the 32V kernel is only a little bigger than the
> original FreeDOS kernel I wrote. The Caldera license is pretty much a BSD
> license, which could be considered an open source license. This means I should
> be able to work on it without worrying about IP, although I'd still need
> management approval.
>
> Should I undertake such an project, would there be enough interest to justify
> the effort?
>
> Pat
>
> --
> You can't build a reputation on what you are going to do. -- Henry Ford
He noted the following and asked if I'ld like it posted to this list:
I see from subsequent mail that a project has been started.
The members of this list seem to share some common characteristics:
1. Some spare time for working with code.
2. A willingness to hack on code.
3. A desire to work with cleaner, smaller simpler versions of Unix,
instead of the modern, er, *full featured* open source systems
(Linux, *BSD).
I'd like to suggest that perhaps members of this list should check out
Plan 9 From Bell Labs (http://plan9.bell-labs.com) The Plan 9 developers
have recently posted a request for help, for people to tackle some projects
that need tackling. Why should people here look at it?
1. It's from Bell Labs: quality design and concepts guaranteed. (:-)
2. It's an opportunity to move into the future, instead of hiding out
in the past.
3. Plan 9 deserves good help.
4. People who appreciate early Unix and current Plan 9 will be welcomed
warmly.
So, check it out,
We sure would like more people using our system and our license is OSI
approved so it least has one stamp as open source. It clearly is not as
simple 32V or our 10th edition unix. However, it comes close and is way
simpler than either Linux or the current BSDs.
Hello list,
there is the 2.11 BSD on moe.2bsd.com. I wonder why there aren't any
filenames but only numbers instead. Is there somewhere a tar-archive of
2.11BSD on the net?
Thanks
Mario
Hiyas,
I just unearthed a unix source tree that seems to be dated 1972. is that of interest, or do
we already have it?
Cheers,
Fred
--
InterNetworking, Network Security and Communications Consultants
MicroWalt Corporation (Netherlands), Postbus 8, 1400 AA BUSSUM
Phone +31 (35) 7503090 FAX +31 (35) 7503091 http://WWW.MicroWalt.NL/
Dit bericht en eventuele bijlagen is uitsluitend bestemd voor de
geadresseerde. Openbaarmaking, vermenigvuldiging, verspreiding aan
derden is niet toegestaan. Er wordt geen verantwoordelijkheid
genomen voor de juiste en volledige overbrenging van de inhoud van
dit bericht, noch voor de tijdige ontvangst ervan.
>From: Pat Villani <Pat.Villani(a)hp.com>
>Sent: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:35:40 -0400
>To: tuhs(a)tuhs.org
>Subject: [TUHS] While on the subject of 32V ...
>Folks,
>I recently copied down the 32V source, and compiled the kernel with
>gcc. Much to my surprise, most of it compiled. I then split out the
>machine dependent versus the machine independent files (loose
>classification :-), and compiled again. Naturally, in both cases, you
>could not actually build a kernel because there are vax specific .s
>files, but the individual C files compiled. Not a bad start.
Whew. Goes to show something about GCC backward compatibility.
>As a result, I've been giving serious consideration to porting it to
>Intel IA32 platforms. It's much simpler than the unix I worked on
>until last year (Tru64, aka OSF/1 and Digital UNIX), and the 32V
>kernel is only a little bigger than the original FreeDOS kernel I
>wrote. The Caldera license is pretty much a BSD license, which could
>be considered an open source license. This means I should be able to
>work on it without worrying about IP, although I'd still need
>management approval.
It's basically the old (with advertising) BSD license, AFAICT.
>Should I undertake such an project, would there be enough interest to
>justify the effort?
I for one would be interested... :)
>Pat
-uso.
> <snip>
> I've been giving serious consideration to porting it to
> Intel IA32 platforms. It's much simpler than the unix I worked on
> until last year (Tru64, aka OSF/1 and Digital UNIX), and the 32V
> kernel is only a little bigger than the original FreeDOS kernel I
> wrote. The Caldera license is pretty much a BSD license, which
> could be considered an open source license. This means I should be
> able to work on it without worrying about IP, although I'd still
> need management approval. Should I undertake such an project, would
> there be enough interest to justify the effort?
I'd certainly be intrigued enough to run it.
> Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:35:32 +1300
> From: Wesley Parish <wes.parish(a)paradise.net.nz>
> Subject: Re: [TUHS] UNIX/32V
> To: tuhs(a)tuhs.org
>
> On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:20, Norman Wilson wrote:
> > Wesley Parish:
> >
> > I was wondering as well, are there any VAX assembler manuals online, in
> > an easily-copyable form?
> >
> > I've encountered html ones, but that isn't quite what I mean.
> >
> > What do you mean, then? In what way isn't HTML suitable?
> > I don't mean to be obstreperous; I just think it would be
> > easier to help if you made it clearer what you need and
> > what you don't.
>
> I'm a bit more used to using PDF for that purpose, since PDF data
> resides in a single file - ergo, easier downloads.
Download all the html. (use wget)
Make a list of the files in the order that they should appear in
the PDF file.
Use htmldoc < www.easysw.com/htmldoc/ > to make PDF or PostScript.
Htmldoc is interesting software -- it works well and is available in
source form with the caveat "here it is, take it and don't bother us
unless you want to buy a support contract".
carl
Hi,
I am interested in the history of VAX unices. On the modern extreme, I
obtained a pretty VAXstation 4000/VLC and it runs NetBSD now. I am
more than happy to play the original rogue from 4.2BSD. On the ancient
extreme, since I dare not to tame a beast like PDP-11/780, I am
reading various papers and codes.
Now I am searching for the original article of UNIX/32V: T. B. London
& J. F. Reiser, ``A UNIX Operating System for the DEC VAX-11/780
Computer,'' Technical Report TM-78-1353-4, Bell Laboratories, Murray
Hill, NJ(July 1978), but it seems quite hard to find it. Is there
anyone who can tell me how can I obtain a copy?
Regards,
-nao
Peter Salus is quoted as saying
> ...
> When the VAX was ``pre-announced,'' the Unix architects at Bell Labs had become
> disillusioned with DEC, they didn't like VMS and they thought that the VAX had
> an ``offensively fat instruction set.'' Anyway, Steve Johnson and Dennis
> Ritchie were working on their Unix port to the Interdata. (Which Steve referred
> to as the ``Intersnail.'')
We were far from disillusioned, either with the company
or the design; see my contemporary transcription of Ossanna's
notes of the preannouncement presentation.
http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/vax.html
But it is true that our own attention was focussed on the Interdata
work at the time; not only was it underway, but for stretching
portability it looked useful to work on an architecture that
was Not "culturally compatible" with the PDP-11.
> So DEC approached Charlie Roberts at AT&T in Holmdel, NJ. Tom London, John
> Reiser and Ken Swanson were interested; they got a VAX in early 1978. In three
> months they ported Version 7 to the VAX. Roberts told me: ``We got the machine
> in January, they had it running in April, and by August it really worked.'' >>
and indeed left the Vax port to Reiser and London. (VMS
didn't figure into the equation.)
A later poster, nao, asked about London and Reiser's memo
about their work on what became 32V (TM-78-1353-4).
This seems to be in the company archives, but not in scanned form.
I've ordered a paper copy, but the mechanism sometimes
is a black hole.
Dennis
Wesley Parish:
I was wondering as well, are there any VAX assembler manuals online, in an
easily-copyable form?
I've encountered html ones, but that isn't quite what I mean.
What do you mean, then? In what way isn't HTML suitable?
I don't mean to be obstreperous; I just think it would be
easier to help if you made it clearer what you need and
what you don't.
To split hairs further, what do you mean by `VAX assembler
manual'? There's a paper named Assember Reference Manual
that came in Berkeley's Volume 2C for 3BSD, written by
Reiser (Bell Labs) and Henry (Berkeley); it is a compact
description of syntax and pseudo-ops, but doesn't list or
explain the VAX instruction set itself.
The best reference I know for the VAX instruction set is
the official DEC manual called VAX Architecture Reference
Manual (EK-VAXAR-RM), but at more than 500 pages it is not
easily-copyable even in the way we thought of copying when
it was published, i.e. that depicted on the cover of the
latter-day Lions book.
Norman Wilson
Toronto ON
Admittedly the page is a rant from 1997 but it does have a few tidbits.
Page is here:
http://www.mids.org/pay/mn/704/bits.html
Excerpt about VAX:
<< And it's over 20 years since Gordon Bell came up with his ideas for a DEC
family with a 32-bit architecture. That was implemented by Bill Demmer, Larry
Portner, and Bill Strecker as DEC's VAX line: Virtual Address Extension. Bell's
notion allowed DEC to produce a line of computers that continues today, and
certainly occupied a number of desktops over 15 years ago.
When the VAX was ``pre-announced,'' the Unix architects at Bell Labs had become
disillusioned with DEC, they didn't like VMS and they thought that the VAX had
an ``offensively fat instruction set.'' Anyway, Steve Johnson and Dennis
Ritchie were working on their Unix port to the Interdata. (Which Steve referred
to as the ``Intersnail.'')
So DEC approached Charlie Roberts at AT&T in Holmdel, NJ. Tom London, John
Reiser and Ken Swanson were interested; they got a VAX in early 1978. In three
months they ported Version 7 to the VAX. Roberts told me: ``We got the machine
in January, they had it running in April, and by August it really worked.'' >>
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