TUHS April 2001

tuhs@tuhs.org

11 participants
15 discussions

by norman＠nose.cita.utoronto.ca

I've assembled some notes from old manuals and other sources on the formats used for on-disk file systems through the Seventh Edition: http://www.cita.utoronto.ca/~norman/old-unix/old-fs.html Additional notes, comments on style, and whatnot are welcome. (It may be sensible to send anything in the last two categories directly to me, rather than to the whole list.)

2 years, 6 months

Re: [pups] V6 and Supnik-simulator

by Wolfgang Helbig

Hi, Warren put the v6enb.tar.gz into http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/TUHS/Archive/PDP-11/Bug_Fixes/V6enb/ Thank you, Warren! Besides some minor and rather unimportant changes to V6, this file contains README files, that try to explain how to install UNIX V6 on Bob Supnik's simulator from the tape file provided by Ken Wellsch. These setup instructions are aimed at the beginner level with regard to UNIX as well as to the simulator. The "bug fixes" are supplied as "diff -e" files on tp-formatted tape files, ready to be used by the simulator. Two simple ANSI-C programs are provided to insert (enblock) or remove (deblock) blocking information in tape files needed by Bob's simulator. Have fun, Wolfgang

23 years, 6 months

[pups] Berkeley Pascal

by Lars J. Buitinck

I was browsing through the 2.11BSD docs on my OpenBSD PC, and I noticed I couldn't format the Pascal manuals. Can anybody format them for me in (if at all possible) PostScript format, or else plain TXT (with ^H_ and other more(1) hacks ofcourse)? I haven't got 2.11 to work in simh yet, otherwise I'd try it in 2.11. -- If I traveled to the end of the rainbow As Dame Fortune did intend, Murphy would be there to tell me The pot's at the other end. -- Bert Whitney Lars J. Buitinck

23 years, 6 months

[pups] Dead RD54... heeelp!

by Fred N. van Kempen

All, My RD54 just died on me. It spins up, but, apparently, not all the way.. it does not make its usual calibration sound anymore. After this, the drive seems to be dead. Does this sound familiar? Is it the HDA or the electronics? (I have another RD54, perhaps I can exchange the electronics pcb's ?) --fred (__sigh__) -- Fred N. van Kempen Fred.van.Kempen(a)MicroWalt.NL Microsoft MCSE+I/MCSE/MCSD Compaq ASE/ACT UNIX Systems Programmer Cisco ACRC/CCDA/CCNA/SupportPro InterNetworking en Network Security Consultant MicroWalt Corporation (Netherlands), Korte Heul 95, 1403 ND BUSSUM Phone +31 (35) 6980059 FAX +31 (35) 6980215 http://WWW.MicroWalt.NL/ Dit bericht en eventuele bijlagen is uitsluitend bestemd voor de geadresseerde. Openbaarmaking, vermenigvuldiging, verspreiding aan derden is niet toegestaan. Er wordt geen verantwoordelijkheid genomen voor de juiste en volledige overbrenging van de inhoud van dit bericht, noch voor de tijdige ontvangst ervan.

23 years, 6 months

[pups] Maximum PDP-11 executable size?

by Edward Brocklesby

Hi, I'm having problems compiling some large-ish programs on 2.11BSD, for example MH. Even when putting *everything* on overlays, I still get an error: [ejb@styx] ~/mh-6.8.4.orig/uip > /bin/ld -i -X -o xforw /lib/crt0.o -Z forw.o -Z whatnowproc.o -Z whatnowsbr.o -Z sendsbr.o -Z annosbr.o -Z distsbr.o -Z ../config/config.o -Z ../sbr/libmh.a -Z ../mts/libmts.a -Z ../zotnet/libzot.a -Z -lc -Z -lerrlst -Z ../config/version.o ld: too big for type 431 (problem 2: tsize = 0, ovrnd = 8192, dtotal = 0) [ejb@styx] ~/mh-6.8.4.orig/uip > is there any way around this, or is MH just too big to fix on a PDP? -larne- Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA56896 for pups-liszt; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:01:25 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Fri Apr 20 09:47:22 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA56892 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:01:20 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f3JNlMq22283 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 16:47:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 16:47:22 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200104192347.f3JNlMq22283(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Maximum PDP-11 executable size? Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> > I'm having problems compiling some large-ish programs on 2.11BSD, for example > MH. Even when putting *everything* on overlays, I still get an error: It has been eons and eons since I attempted MH and I can't remember if I gave up or finally got something to work (shows how long its been ;)). > [ejb@styx] ~/mh-6.8.4.orig/uip > /bin/ld -i -X -o xforw /lib/crt0.o -Z forw.o > -Z whatnowproc.o -Z whatnowsbr.o -Z sendsbr.o -Z annosbr.o -Z distsbr.o -Z > ../config/config.o -Z ../sbr/libmh.a -Z ../mts/libmts.a -Z ../zotnet/libzot.a > -Z -lc -Z -lerrlst -Z ../config/version.o > ld: too big for type 431 (problem 2: tsize = 0, ovrnd = 8192, dtotal = 0) > [ejb@styx] ~/mh-6.8.4.orig/uip > Hmmm, I grep'd the current source to 'ld' and couldn't find the message "problem 2: ...". I do remember that being present during the debugging of 'ld' when the long symbol names (the "string table" aka 4.3BSD a.out format) capability was being developed. That suggests that 'ld' might be out of date. The answer to the 'Maximum PDP-11 executable size?' question is fairly length and a bit involved ;). Assuming split I/D: Short answer: 120KB to 904KB Long answer: without overlays there is one 64KB code segment and one 56KB data segment giving 120KB for a non overlaid program. In practice if a program hits 56KB out of 'ld' then there's no room for malloc() and the program may link but it won't run ;( For overlaid programs there is still but one 56KB data segment (the top 8KB is for the stack) but now the code can be arranged differently: There is a maximum of 15 overlays and there can be no 'gaps' (zero length/empty overlays between populated overlays). BASE OVERLAYSIZE TOTALTEXT 8KB 56KB * 15 840KB 16KB 48KB * 15 736KB 24KB 40KB * 15 624KB 32KB 32KB * 15 512KB 40KB 24KB * 15 400KB 48KB 16KB * 15 288KB 56KB 8KB * 15 176KB In reality the kernel probably would choke on the first several cases, and even if it didn't that large of a program would cause severe swapping. Most overlaid programs on the system ('vi' for example) use either the base=48KB or base=56KB layout. I think 'kermit' might use the 40KB base segment. The "tsize" error would indicate that the code size summing had an overflow - that was a bug at one time and was later fixed, which again suggests that the 'ld' is out dated somehow. If 'ld' was able to create 'xforw' try doing a "size xforw" on it and seeing how far it got - perhaps a clue can be gathered that way. You may need to usually terminate the overlay list with a -Y - I don't believe it's "required" though. -Z -lc -Z -lerrlst -Y ../config/version.o > is there any way around this, or is MH just too big to fix on a PDP? Couple things to try. Use 'size' on the .o (and/or .a) files to see how big things are - add them up and see if things start overflowing 16 bits. There was an overflow bug in ld's size computations - it was fixed by using a 'long' in a couple places to detect wraparound. What version of 2.11 (should be in the first couple lines of /VERSION) are you using? Sure feels like 'ld' is old and having problems that were fixed later on. Steven Schultz sms(a)to.gd-es.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA57165 for pups-liszt; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:57:13 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> Fri Apr 20 10:48:19 2001 Received: from klamath.leguin.org.uk (pc62-oxf1.cable.ntl.com [62.254.132.62]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA57161 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:57:08 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from ejb(a)leguin.org.uk) Received: from klamath.leguin.org.uk (klamath [127.0.0.1]) by klamath.leguin.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id BAA17554; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 01:48:21 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: klamath.leguin.org.uk: Host klamath [127.0.0.1] claimed to be klamath.leguin.org.uk Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> Organization: Leguin Network Services To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Maximum PDP-11 executable size? Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 01:48:19 +0100 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] References: <200104192347.f3JNlMq22283(a)moe.2bsd.com> In-Reply-To: <200104192347.f3JNlMq22283(a)moe.2bsd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01042001482004.00527(a)klamath.leguin.org.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Friday 20 April 2001 12:47 am, Steven M. Schultz wrote: > > [ejb@styx] ~/mh-6.8.4.orig/uip > /bin/ld -i -X -o xforw /lib/crt0.o -Z > > forw.o -Z whatnowproc.o -Z whatnowsbr.o -Z sendsbr.o -Z annosbr.o -Z > > distsbr.o -Z ../config/config.o -Z ../sbr/libmh.a -Z ../mts/libmts.a -Z > > ../zotnet/libzot.a -Z -lc -Z -lerrlst -Z ../config/version.o > > ld: too big for type 431 (problem 2: tsize = 0, ovrnd = 8192, dtotal = 0) > > [ejb@styx] ~/mh-6.8.4.orig/uip > > > Hmmm, I grep'd the current source to 'ld' and couldn't find the > message "problem 2: ...". I do remember that being present during That's something I added myself, to try to help with the problem.. > That suggests that 'ld' might be out of date. /VERSION says: Current Patch Level: 400 Date: January 24, 1998 That's what was on the PUPS FTP site.. > without overlays there is one 64KB code segment and one 56KB data > segment giving 120KB for a non overlaid program. In practice if a > program hits 56KB out of 'ld' then there's no room for malloc() and > the program may link but it won't run ;( > > For overlaid programs there is still but one 56KB data segment (the top > 8KB is for the stack) but now the code can be arranged differently: > > There is a maximum of 15 overlays and there can be no 'gaps' (zero > length/empty overlays between populated overlays). > > BASE OVERLAYSIZE TOTALTEXT > 8KB 56KB * 15 840KB > 16KB 48KB * 15 736KB > 24KB 40KB * 15 624KB > 32KB 32KB * 15 512KB > 40KB 24KB * 15 400KB > 48KB 16KB * 15 288KB > 56KB 8KB * 15 176KB > > In reality the kernel probably would choke on the first several cases, > and even if it didn't that large of a program would cause severe > swapping. > > Most overlaid programs on the system ('vi' for example) use either the > base=48KB or base=56KB layout. I think 'kermit' might use the 40KB > base segment. hm.. how do you specify the base segment size to ld? i don't see anything in the manual page. Just link enough code into the base that it becomes the right size? > The "tsize" error would indicate that the code size summing had an > overflow - that was a bug at one time and was later fixed, which > again suggests that the 'ld' is out dated somehow. possibly, i will look on the 2BSD patch archives now.. > If 'ld' was able to create 'xforw' try doing a "size xforw" on it > and seeing how far it got - perhaps a clue can be gathered that > way. text data bss dec hex 27648 35860 32412 95920 176b0 total text: 83072 overlays: 832,4352,2624,832,1920,29568,192,11008,4096 this particular link gave the error: ld: too big for type 431 (problem 2: tsize = 0, ovrnd = -32768, dtotal = 0) the negative ovrnd i find very strange- perhaps the wrapround bug? > You may need to usually terminate the overlay list with a -Y - I don't > believe it's "required" though. > > -Z -lc -Z -lerrlst -Y ../config/version.o nope.. this doesn't seem to help > > is there any way around this, or is MH just too big to fix on a PDP? > > Couple things to try. Use 'size' on the .o (and/or .a) files to > see how big things are - add them up and see if things start overflowing > 16 bits. There was an overflow bug in ld's size computations - it was > fixed by using a 'long' in a couple places to detect wraparound. Well, considering that there's a couple of *large* libraries here.. -rw-r--r-- 1 ejb 127074 Apr 9 14:47 ../zotnet/libzot.a -rw-r--r-- 1 ejb 102126 Apr 9 14:39 ../sbr/libmh.a maybe that's the problem.. -larne- Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA57746 for pups-liszt; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:01:24 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Fri Apr 20 12:42:54 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA57741 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:01:19 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f3K2gsf23361 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 19:42:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 19:42:54 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200104200242.f3K2gsf23361(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Maximum PDP-11 executable size? Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > > message "problem 2: ...". I do remember that being present during > > That's something I added myself, to try to help with the problem.. Ok - whew, for a minute there I thought some of my debug code had leaked to the world ;) That's the style of debug message I use <g> > /VERSION says: > Current Patch Level: 400 > Date: January 24, 1998 Ouch - that is a bit old, there are updates thru 434 (I've 435 in midstream but haven't had time to finish it). > That's what was on the PUPS FTP site.. Ah. Much becomes clear now. That indeed was the version at one time. A year or so ago I and Warren coordinated an update to the 2.11 in PUPS The current PUPS version is 431 (only 3 updates since then - I've slowed down a lot over the last couple years). > hm.. how do you specify the base segment size to ld? i don't see anything in You don't. At least not directly. Anything outside an overlay goes into the base segment. Thus anything before the first -Z goes into the base, and anything after the -Y goes into the base. > the manual page. Just link enough code into the base that it becomes the > right size? That's basically the way to do it. You can do "size" on the .o files first to get an idea what you want to put where but after that tuning the overlays to fit is a bit of an art. > text data bss dec hex > 27648 35860 32412 95920 176b0 total text: 83072 > overlays: 832,4352,2624,832,1920,29568,192,11008,4096 the single BIGGEST problem is that 'data + bss' exceeds not only the 56KB limit but the total 64KB limit available to a process. Looks like MH want 35860+32412 or 68272 bytes of D space. You might be able to get the code to fit - I'd pack the base to at least 40KB (more likely 48KB) and only have two or three overlays of 24KB or 16KB. THe data space problem means you're going to have to go and lower a lot of the buffer size limits. Remember: even if you do get the dataspace down to where the linker doesn't complain the program will almost certainly try to malloc() memory. Thus the smaller the data+bss the better - and be prepared for malloc() failures One thing that can be done is to run 'xstr' over the sources and collect error message strings, printf strings, and so on into a common pool. The other thing that can be done is create a strings file and extract as many as possible strings from the source modules into an external file. Examples of doing this type of thing can be found in the source tree - 'lint' was one such program, 'sendmail' was another and kermit yet another (that's why there are 'sendmail.sr' and 'kermit5.sr' files on the system). In fact 'kermit' is a good example of squishing a monster program into a small machine. Check out /usr/src/new/kermit5.188 > ld: too big for type 431 (problem 2: tsize = 0, ovrnd = -32768, dtotal = 0) > > the negative ovrnd i find very strange- perhaps the wrapround bug? Hmmm, could be. > Well, considering that there's a couple of *large* libraries here.. > -rw-r--r-- 1 ejb 127074 Apr 9 14:47 ../zotnet/libzot.a > -rw-r--r-- 1 ejb 102126 Apr 9 14:39 ../sbr/libmh.a > > maybe that's the problem.. The size of the .a doesn't accurately reflect the code+text+bss For one thing 'bss' takes up no room at all in an archive. Don't forget that symbol tables and relocation information (as well as 'ar' book keeping info) is present. You can't rely on "ls -l" to say very much about an object file - only "size" can do that. "size libmh.a" will give a much better idea where the problem areas are. Steven Schultz sms(a)to.gd-es.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA58045 for pups-liszt; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:21:45 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> Fri Apr 20 14:12:58 2001 Received: from klamath.leguin.org.uk (pc62-oxf1.cable.ntl.com [62.254.132.62]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA58041 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:21:41 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from ejb(a)leguin.org.uk) Received: from klamath.leguin.org.uk (klamath [127.0.0.1]) by klamath.leguin.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id FAA19106; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 05:12:59 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: klamath.leguin.org.uk: Host klamath [127.0.0.1] claimed to be klamath.leguin.org.uk Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> Organization: Leguin Network Services To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Maximum PDP-11 executable size? Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 05:12:58 +0100 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] References: <200104200242.f3K2gsf23361(a)moe.2bsd.com> In-Reply-To: <200104200242.f3K2gsf23361(a)moe.2bsd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01042005125805.00527(a)klamath.leguin.org.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Friday 20 April 2001 3:42 am, Steven M. Schultz wrote: > the single BIGGEST problem is that 'data + bss' exceeds not only the > 56KB limit but the total 64KB limit available to a process. Looks > like MH want 35860+32412 or 68272 bytes of D space. > > You might be able to get the code to fit - I'd pack the base to at > least 40KB (more likely 48KB) and only have two or three overlays > of 24KB or 16KB. The problem appears to be `libmh.a', which alone has 30K text + 22K data + 24K bss (77444 total). Any way around this? I've tried all the combinations i can think of, to no avail.. > One thing that can be done is to run 'xstr' over the sources and > collect error message strings, printf strings, and so on into a common > pool. The other thing that can be done is create a strings file > and extract as many as possible strings from the source modules into > an external file. Examples of doing this type of thing can be found > in the source tree - 'lint' was one such program, 'sendmail' was another > and kermit yet another (that's why there are 'sendmail.sr' and > 'kermit5.sr' files on the system). hmm... a lot of work just to get MH working. > > ld: too big for type 431 (problem 2: tsize = 0, ovrnd = -32768, dtotal = > > 0) > > > > the negative ovrnd i find very strange- perhaps the wrapround bug? > > Hmmm, could be. Could be i used the wrong printf format also.. > "size libmh.a" will give a much better idea where the problem areas > are. unfortunately, size doesn't appear to work on archive libraries. -larne- Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA58237 for pups-liszt; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 15:01:25 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Fri Apr 20 14:49:59 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA58232 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 15:01:21 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f3K4nxv24294 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 21:49:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 21:49:59 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200104200449.f3K4nxv24294(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Maximum PDP-11 executable size? Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > From: Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> > The problem appears to be `libmh.a', which alone has 30K text + 22K data + > 24K bss (77444 total). Any way around this? I've tried all the combinations > i can think of, to no avail.. I think this would be a very good time to point out that 'data' is NOT overlaid, only the text is overlaid. There is but 1 data segment and all data+bss goes into it. Text overlays work because there's a very careful dance done by the assembler and linker. Functions use a 'thunk' (intermediate transfer vector) - thus when a program calls foo() it is really calling something like ~foo(). That thunk performs part of the function prolog and then checks if the overlay mapping needs to changeoa and if so makes a syscall to have the kernel twiddle the MMU. Then the thunk calls foo+4 (skipping the part of the function prolog that has already been done). Very elegant but completely unapplicable to data references (think on it - how is each and every pointer dereference to be checked to see if that data is mapped in?). In order to get the code to fit it would be necessary to extract all of the .o files from the .a file ("ar x libmh.a") and pack the .o files into overlays so they fit nicely. > > One thing that can be done is to run 'xstr' over the sources and > > hmm... a lot of work just to get MH working. Getting 32bit programs (and MH was done on a VAX or PDP10 (which is actually a 36 bit machine ;)) to run on a 16 bit machine is a lot of work. Since MH was written with a large address space in mind it will likely be necessary to go thru the code and find the "#define BUFSIZE 32000" or whatever and scale things back. The odds are good that many buffers are declared to be large just because it didn't matter on a big address space machine. That's what had to be done for 'vi', 'sendmail', 'kermit', etc. > > "size libmh.a" will give a much better idea where the problem areas > > are. > > unfortunately, size doesn't appear to work on archive libraries. Oh. Darn, I got my systems mixed up. On some systems 'size' will work on .a files - something to put on the TODO pile (shouldn't be too hard since 'nm' works with .a files). Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA58368 for pups-liszt; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 15:35:23 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> Fri Apr 20 15:26:25 2001 Received: from klamath.leguin.org.uk (pc62-oxf1.cable.ntl.com [62.254.132.62]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA58364 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 15:35:18 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from ejb(a)leguin.org.uk) Received: from klamath.leguin.org.uk (klamath [127.0.0.1]) by klamath.leguin.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id GAA19840; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 06:26:27 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: klamath.leguin.org.uk: Host klamath [127.0.0.1] claimed to be klamath.leguin.org.uk Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> Organization: Leguin Network Services To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Maximum PDP-11 executable size? Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 06:26:25 +0100 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] References: <200104200449.f3K4nxv24294(a)moe.2bsd.com> In-Reply-To: <200104200449.f3K4nxv24294(a)moe.2bsd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01042006262506.00527(a)klamath.leguin.org.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Friday 20 April 2001 5:49 am, Steven M. Schultz wrote: > In order to get the code to fit it would be necessary to extract > all of the .o files from the .a file ("ar x libmh.a") and > pack the .o files into overlays so they fit nicely. hmm.. i might have a look at doing this after i get xstr working. > Getting 32bit programs (and MH was done on a VAX or PDP10 (which is > actually a 36 bit machine ;)) to run on a 16 bit machine is a lot of > work. 36bit with 9bit bytes, iirc .. fun :> I'm currently converting libmh.a to use xstr, but I've come across a problem.. given the definition static char unixbuf[BUFSIZ] = ""; xstr generates the code static char unixbuf[BUFSIZ] = (&xstr[0]); which the C compiler refuses to compile. Any way around this? -larne- Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA59071 for pups-liszt; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:41:53 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Wolfgang Helbig <helbig(a)Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> Fri Apr 20 17:37:28 2001 Received: from RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE (isdn258.s.netic.de [212.9.163.2]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA59067 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:41:48 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from helbig(a)Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE) Received: (from helbig@localhost) by RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f3K7bSv10954; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:37:28 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:37:28 +0200 (CEST) From: Wolfgang Helbig <helbig(a)Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> Message-Id: <200104200737.f3K7bSv10954(a)RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> To: helbig(a)Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE, leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de Subject: Re: [pups] V6 and Supnik-simulator Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > > If the following README sounds interesting to you, maybe we can > > arrange to put a tar ball of it onto minnie? > > > > I also prepared postscript files of the V6-documentation. > > Anyone interested? > > > Yes, me in example :-). I wonder wether you could give them to dmr to be > placed just at the side of the v7 docs, or wether you could put it > into the archive? I asked Dennis, and he told me, the best place for those directories is the minnie archive. So I'd like to put it there, but don't know how to. Wolfgang > > Regards -- Markus > > > > > Wolfgang > > > > First README: > > UNIX V6 on the Supnik simulator: > > -------------------------------- > > This directory contains tape files for the Supnik simulator and > > accompaning README files, which I produced when preparing an OS [...] > > Second README: > > This directory contains some documentation as found on the UNIX V6 > > Distribution tape. The files were converted to postscript with > > groff and the usage of the V6 ms-macro package. (See the print > > shell script) [...] Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA59307 for pups-liszt; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 18:22:59 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Markus E Leypold <leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Fri Apr 20 18:15:44 2001 Received: from mx2.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (mx2.Informatik.Uni-Tuebingen.De [134.2.12.9]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA59303 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 18:22:55 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de) Received: from neuromancer.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (neuromancer [134.2.12.58]) by mx2.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C80C01066; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:14:18 +0200 (MST) Received: (from leypold@localhost) by neuromancer.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (8.9.3/8.8.7) id IAA01537; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 08:15:44 GMT Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 08:15:44 GMT Message-Id: <200104200815.IAA01537(a)neuromancer.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: neuromancer.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de: leypold set sender to leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de using -f From: Markus E Leypold <leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> To: helbig(a)Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE Cc: helbig(a)Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au In-reply-to: <200104200737.f3K7bSv10954(a)RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> (message from Wolfgang Helbig on Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:37:28 +0200 (CEST)) Subject: Re: [pups] V6 and Supnik-simulator References: <200104200737.f3K7bSv10954(a)RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > Delivered-To: leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de > Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:37:28 +0200 (CEST) > From: Wolfgang Helbig <helbig(a)Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> > Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > > > > If the following README sounds interesting to you, maybe we can > > > arrange to put a tar ball of it onto minnie? > > > > > > I also prepared postscript files of the V6-documentation. > > > Anyone interested? > > > > > > Yes, me in example :-). I wonder wether you could give them to dmr to be > > placed just at the side of the v7 docs, or wether you could put it > > into the archive? > > I asked Dennis, and he told me, the best place for those directories > is the minnie archive. So I'd like to put it there, but don't know how to. Well -- send a mail to warren k tomey (wkt@.... -- you'll find him in the mailing list). He has been building the archive and might tell you, how to transfer the files. Since PUPS-archive has an incoming directory, I think, it might be, that ftp-'put' to incoming will work. Warren or some other archive maintainer can pick it from there, and place it in the proper directories. Ask Warren. He is the one who should know. Regards -- Markus PS: Somehow I know your name. You haven't written a book by chance? Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA59510 for pups-liszt; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 19:00:17 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)update.uu.se> Fri Apr 20 18:51:19 2001 Received: from Tempo.Update.UU.SE (root(a)Tempo.Update.UU.SE [130.238.19.17]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA59503 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 19:00:11 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from bqt(a)update.uu.se) Received: from localhost (bqt@localhost) by Tempo.Update.UU.SE (8.11.2/8.11.2/Update-Iltempogigante) with ESMTP id f3K8pKq08127; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:51:20 +0200 Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:51:19 +0200 (CEST) From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)update.uu.se> To: Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> cc: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Maximum PDP-11 executable size? In-Reply-To: <01042006262506.00527(a)klamath.leguin.org.uk> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0104201049370.3728-100000(a)Tempo.Update.UU.SE> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Edward Brocklesby wrote: > On Friday 20 April 2001 5:49 am, Steven M. Schultz wrote: > > Getting 32bit programs (and MH was done on a VAX or PDP10 (which is > > actually a 36 bit machine ;)) to run on a 16 bit machine is a lot of > > work. > > 36bit with 9bit bytes, iirc .. fun :> Actually, the PDP-10 have variable byte size. Anything from 1 to 36 bits. Lazy people went with 9 bit bytes, while size-aware people used 7 bit bytes. And then you have SIXBIT... /Department for worthless knowledge. :-) Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA65073 for pups-liszt; Sat, 21 Apr 2001 05:02:46 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Tom Ivar Helbekkmo <tih(a)Hamartun.Priv.NO> Sat Apr 21 04:23:51 2001 Received: from uucp-relay.eunet.no (gasspedal.eunet.no [193.71.71.15]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA65069 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 21 Apr 2001 05:02:41 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from tih(a)barsoom.Hamartun.Priv.NO) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by uucp-relay.eunet.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id UAA97313; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 20:54:02 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from tih(a)barsoom.Hamartun.Priv.NO) Received: by barsoom.Hamartun.Priv.NO (Postfix, from userid 1001) id D4DED7201; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 20:23:52 +0200 (CEST) To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Maximum PDP-11 executable size? References: <200104200242.f3K2gsf23361(a)moe.2bsd.com> From: Tom Ivar Helbekkmo <tih(a)Hamartun.Priv.NO> Date: 20 Apr 2001 20:23:51 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Steven M. Schultz"'s message of "Thu, 19 Apr 2001 19:42:54 -0700 (PDT)" Message-ID: <867l0f8m6g.fsf(a)barsoom.Hamartun.Priv.NO> User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> writes: > > Current Patch Level: 400 > > Date: January 24, 1998 > > Ouch - that is a bit old, there are updates thru 434 (I've 435 in > midstream but haven't had time to finish it). You mean 435/436: patch 435 was released on February 7th, 2001. :-) -tih -- Popularity is the hallmark of mediocrity. --Niles Crane, "Frasier"

23 years, 7 months

[pups] Sigma RQD11s, ESDI, and other naughty words

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

A couple of weeks ago, I asked if anyone had any suggestions to help me convince a Sigma RQD11 Qbus-to-ESDI controller that it had disks attached. The trouble turned out to be pretty silly--the A-cable terminator in the disk I was testing with was in backwards--but later I discovered what may be a genuine controller botch that is worth reporting. Like most Qbus disk controllers, the RQD11 speaks the MSCP protocol to the host. More precisely it understands MSCP messages and uses UQSSP to transmit them; UQSSP is the transport protocol used by UNIBUS and Qbus controllers like the UDA50 and KDA50 and RQDX3 and TQK50 and so on. In general, the host sends commands like `bring drive online' or `read a block' to the controller, and the controller sends back response messages like `command succeeded' or `command failed.' (Never mind how the data part of the block is sent to memory for now.) The host sets up a ring of buffers for the controller to place messages in. Each buffer has an ownership flag: messages owned by the controller are available to hold new messages; messages owned by the host are not, usually because there's already a message there. When the controller has a message to send, it waits (if necessary) until it owns the next buffer in the ring (the ring is used in strict round-robin order); puts the message there; and sets the ownership flag to `host.' When the host has handled the message, or at least copied it elsewhere, it sets the flag back to `controller.' When the controller gives a message to host, it also generates an interrupt. There are several other reasons for generating an interrupt, so it is also supposed to set a single flag elsewhere in a communication area in host memory to mean `there are new messages.' My UQSSP driver code checked for new messages only if the flag was set, and that caused me grief; it turns out that, at least when the host is a MicroVAX III, the RQD11 sets the `new messages' flag inconsistently, or perhaps too late. Presumably it should have been set before requesting the interrupt, but empirically I can see that sometimes it gets set later. The effect was that the controller did what I told it, but my device driver never heard the acknowledgement that said it did. Obviously this makes I/O unreasonably slow. Fortunately there's a simple way around this: my driver's interrupt routine now peeks at the ownership flag for the buffer where the next message should appear. (Remember that the message buffers are used in strict order, so the host always knows exactly which buffer that is.) When I do that, all is well. I suspect that many existing UQSSP drivers already did what my code does now; in particular, the controllers and disks I am testing are known to have worked for many years with Ultrix, and while searching for data on the controller I came across various notes suggesting that the RQD11 works under NetBSD/VAX as well. But those who are writing new code or making changes to existing code should beware; the RQD11 appears to be breaking the rules (according to the old UQSSP manual I still have), and (as in many real-world protocol situations) if you write your code from the spec (as I did, in fact, albeit many years ago), the real world may trip it up. Norman Wilson

23 years, 7 months

[pups] 2.11BSD system

by Edward Brocklesby

Hi all, The public access 2.11BSD system is finally back up, at styx.leguin.org.uk. You might find your account has been deleted, in which case just create a new one.. (for anyone who didn't see my original mail, styx is a public access 2.11bsd system on a pdp-11/70 that anyone can create an account on via telnet). -larne- Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA36260 for pups-liszt; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 21:59:39 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Markus E Leypold <leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Tue Apr 17 21:51:14 2001 Received: from mx2.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (mx2.Informatik.Uni-Tuebingen.De [134.2.12.9]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA36256 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 21:59:33 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de) Received: from neuromancer.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (neuromancer [134.2.12.58]) by mx2.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E41FE1062; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 13:51:13 +0200 (MST) Received: (from leypold@localhost) by neuromancer.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (8.9.3/8.8.7) id LAA21885; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 11:51:14 GMT Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 11:51:14 GMT Message-Id: <200104171151.LAA21885(a)neuromancer.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: neuromancer.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de: leypold set sender to leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de using -f From: Markus E Leypold <leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> To: helbig(a)Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au In-reply-to: <200104151708.f3FH8WS05058(a)RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> (message from Wolfgang Helbig on Sun, 15 Apr 2001 19:08:32 +0200 (CEST)) Subject: Re: [pups] V6 and Supnik-simulator References: <200104151708.f3FH8WS05058(a)RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > Delivered-To: leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de > Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 19:08:32 +0200 (CEST) > From: Wolfgang Helbig <helbig(a)Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> > Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > > Hi, > > If the following README sounds interesting to you, maybe we can > arrange to put a tar ball of it onto minnie? > > I also prepared postscript files of the V6-documentation. > Anyone interested? Yes, me in example :-). I wonder wether you could give them to dmr to be placed just at the side of the v7 docs, or wether you could put it into the archive? Regards -- Markus > > Wolfgang > > First README: > UNIX V6 on the Supnik simulator: > -------------------------------- > This directory contains tape files for the Supnik simulator and > accompaning README files, which I produced when preparing an OS > course at the Berufsakademie. Further it contains C-sources of two > commands (enblock.c/deblock.c). These commands prepare a tapefile for the > simulator (enblock) and produce a plain file from a simulator > tapefile (deblock). > > The Supnik simulator can be obtained from: > ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Sims/Supnik_2.3/sources/ > I used the sim_2.3d.tar.gz tar ball. > > This directory contains a *.README and *.enb files with the following > basenames: > > ctable: A bug in the input table for the C-compiler code generator is fixed. > ctime: Some y2k related changes to V6. > dcheck: Bug fix and enhancement of dcheck. > dist: The V6 distribution tape: dist.README explains how to install > and setup UNIX-V6 with the simulator. The file dist.enb is missing > for copyright and space reasons, you have to prepare it yourself. > (see enb.README). > dotdot: Kernel enhancement: If in a root directoy of a mounted filesystem, > let ".." mean the parent of the mount point, not the root directory. > enb: Conventions and usage of .enb files. Explains how to > prepare tape files for the Supnik simulator and tells you > how to prepare the V6 distribution tape. > ludiv: Derivation of a double word unsigned division algorithm, which is used > in ctime. (no corresponding .enb) > man: The man command, which was missing from the distribution, and some > changes to make V6-nroff output readable on an xterm. > > So enb.README and dist.README are the next files you should read. > > If you have questions or find bugs or whatever, mail to > helbig(a)informatik.ba-stuttgart.de > > Last but not least I thankfully acknowledge the work of the people > who talked SCO into offering the ancient-UNIX source license, who collected > the old distribution tapes and run the PUPS Archive. And of course I thank > Bob Supnik for this great simulator! > > Second README: > This directory contains some documentation as found on the UNIX V6 > Distribution tape. The files were converted to postscript with > groff and the usage of the V6 ms-macro package. (See the print > shell script) > > Assembler: as.ps (*) > Beginners Guide: beg.ps (*) > C-Language Reference: c.ps (***) > C-Tutorial: ctut.ps (**) > ED-Tutorial: ed.ps (*) > Summary of UNIX: hel.ps (*) > Description of the C-IO-Library: iolib.ps () > Description of the kernel IO/Subsystem: iosys.ps (**) > Some thought about security: secur.ps (*) > Instruction how to install V6 from tape:start.ps (***) > Table of Contents of the Online Manual toc.ps (**) > Overview of UNIX (ACM-paper) unix.ps (***) > YACC - yet another compiler compiler yacc.ps () > > The more stars the more useful for the OS course. Two or more stars > indicate high recommended! > > >From the V7-distribution I included "A tour through the UNIX-C-Compiler" > (ctour.ps), which describes the internal workings of the said > compiler. The format and meaning of /usr/sources/c/table.s is > particular interesting reading if you want to learn about how a > compiler generates machine code. > > The shell script "print" can be used to format the *.ps files. > (on a contemporary UNIX system with groff) > > The file tmac.s contains V6-ms macros, which are used by some of > the doc files. > > Some of the V6 doc files needed to be adopted to groff to render > acceptable output. But the 25 year old troff sources were amazingly > compatible with groff. > Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA36286 for pups-liszt; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 22:02:15 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Markus E Leypold <leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Tue Apr 17 21:53:23 2001 Received: from mx2.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (mx2.Informatik.Uni-Tuebingen.De [134.2.12.9]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA36282 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 22:02:12 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de) Received: from neuromancer.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (neuromancer [134.2.12.58]) by mx2.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 569111062; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 13:53:23 +0200 (MST) Received: (from leypold@localhost) by neuromancer.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (8.9.3/8.8.7) id LAA21888; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 11:53:23 GMT Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 11:53:23 GMT Message-Id: <200104171153.LAA21888(a)neuromancer.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: neuromancer.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de: leypold set sender to leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de using -f From: Markus E Leypold <leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> To: iking(a)microsoft.com Cc: helbig(a)Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE, kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au In-reply-to: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C0235D23D(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> (iking(a)microsoft.com) Subject: Re: [pups] Ken_Welsch_v6 and Dennis_v6 References: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C0235D23D(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > Delivered-To: leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de > Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message > Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 08:34:09 -0700 > Thread-Topic: [pups] Ken_Welsch_v6 and Dennis_v6 > Thread-Index: AcDFGASz18jwJYwtTZmjFncUfGcq0gBccMBw > From: "Ian King" <iking(a)microsoft.com> > Cc: <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> > Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > > All, > > Yes, I saw the "rights" declaration (with a non-zero switch register) on > a real machine (PDP-11/34a with programmer's panel), when I booted Ken's > v6 distribution in single-user mode (there is a specific value you enter > into the register, 173030, as documented in bproc.8; does anyone know > why this value was used?). > > I'm not sure why, but I was never able to get Dennis' distribution to > boot in the emulator; as a result, I didn't take the time to copy it As far as I remember I had the same problem. The bootsector I think is simply empty (god knows why). I took the bs from another disk -- and everything was fine. Regards -- Markus > over to an RK05 (using Warren's excellent tools) to boot on the 11/34. > Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA37877 for pups-liszt; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 02:15:20 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> Wed Apr 18 02:06:34 2001 Received: from klamath.leguin.org.uk (pc62-oxf1.cable.ntl.com [62.254.132.62]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA37873 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 02:15:15 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from ejb(a)leguin.org.uk) Received: from klamath.leguin.org.uk (klamath [127.0.0.1]) by klamath.leguin.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id QAA22914 for <pups(a)minnie.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:06:35 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: klamath.leguin.org.uk: Host klamath [127.0.0.1] claimed to be klamath.leguin.org.uk Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> Organization: Leguin Network Services To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: [pups] very strange problems with 2.11BSD tcp/ip stack Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:06:34 +0000 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <0104171606340L.00508(a)klamath.leguin.org.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk hi, I've been using the 2.11BSD tcp/ip stack fine for weeks, but now, just when we move it to a new host, its been very flaky.. I'm not sure if it's a problem with the configuration of the emulator host system, or the TCP stack itself. the problem seems to be with packets arriving and being processed out of order.. I get this from a ping: PING 62.242.39.162 (62.242.39.162): 56 data bytes 64 bytes from 62.242.39.162: icmp_seq=2 ttl=255 time=14.427 ms 64 bytes from 62.242.39.162: icmp_seq=3 ttl=255 time=24.571 ms 64 bytes from 62.242.39.162: icmp_seq=0 ttl=255 time=3194.977 ms 64 bytes from 62.242.39.162: icmp_seq=1 ttl=255 time=2207.308 ms 64 bytes from 62.242.39.162: icmp_seq=12 ttl=255 time=14.602 ms 64 bytes from 62.242.39.162: icmp_seq=13 ttl=255 time=24.598 ms 64 bytes from 62.242.39.162: icmp_seq=14 ttl=255 time=14.612 ms 64 bytes from 62.242.39.162: icmp_seq=15 ttl=255 time=24.571 ms 64 bytes from 62.242.39.162: icmp_seq=16 ttl=255 time=14.614 ms 64 bytes from 62.242.39.162: icmp_seq=4 ttl=255 time=12156.845 ms 64 bytes from 62.242.39.162: icmp_seq=5 ttl=255 time=11166.777 ms 64 bytes from 62.242.39.162: icmp_seq=6 ttl=255 time=10176.688 ms 64 bytes from 62.242.39.162: icmp_seq=7 ttl=255 time=9186.604 ms 64 bytes from 62.242.39.162: icmp_seq=8 ttl=255 time=8197.344 ms 64 bytes from 62.242.39.162: icmp_seq=9 ttl=255 time=7206.744 ms 64 bytes from 62.242.39.162: icmp_seq=10 ttl=255 time=6216.641 ms 64 bytes from 62.242.39.162: icmp_seq=11 ttl=255 time=5226.532 ms but the box i'm pinging from is the host system where the emulator is located.. so there isn't any possible network problem. The configuration is, tap0 has the IP 62.242.39.161 on the host, and the pdp-11 has 62.242.39.162, with netmask 0xfffffff8. Nothing else special has been done on either side. on the host, we have this: freeze% ifconfig xl0 xl0: flags=8843<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500 inet 195.249.6.94 netmask 0xfffffff8 broadcast 195.249.6.95 inet6 fe80::260:97ff:fe7d:74ac%xl0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x1 ether 00:60:97:7d:74:ac media: 100baseTX <full-duplex> status: active supported media: autoselect 100baseTX <full-duplex> 100baseTX 10baseT/UTP <full-duplex> 10baseT/UTP 100baseTX <hw-loopback> freeze% ifconfig tap0 tap0: flags=8843<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1532 inet6 fe80::260:97ff:fe7d:74ac%tap0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0xb inet 62.242.39.161 netmask 0xfffffffc broadcast 62.242.39.163 ether 00:bd:e7:e0:cc:00 Opened by PID 31257 freeze% netstat -rn Routing tables Internet: Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use Netif Expire default 195.249.6.90 UGSc 2 8355 xl0 62.242.39.160/30 link#11 UC 0 0 tap0 => 127.0.0.1 127.0.0.1 UH 2 15389 lo0 195.249.6.88/29 link#1 UC 0 0 xl0 => and on the pdp-11: styx% ifconfig qe0 qe0: flags=63<UP,BROADCAST,NOTRAILERS,RUNNING> inet 62.242.39.162 netmask fffffffc broadcast 62.242.39.163 styx% netstat -rn Routing tables Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use Interface 127.0.0.1 127.0.0.1 UH 0 0 lo0 62.242.39.162 127.0.0.1 UH 0 0 lo0 default 62.242.39.161 UG 1 3551 qe0 62.242.39.160 62.242.39.162 U 1 321 qe0 If someone could shed some light on this problem, it'd be much appreciated.. -larne-

23 years, 7 months

Re: [pups] very strange problems with 2.11BSD tcp/ip stack

by jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de

On 17 Apr, Edward Brocklesby wrote: > I've been using the 2.11BSD tcp/ip stack fine for weeks, but now, just when > we move it to a new host, its been very flaky.. [...] > the problem seems to be with packets arriving and being processed out of > order.. I had exactely the same problem on my 11/73 with a DELQA running 2.11BSD. I noticed this after I reconfigured the qe0 interface and the routes while the system was up and running. It disapeared after I had to powercycle the machine for other reasons. -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA40135 for pups-liszt; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 08:30:41 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> Wed Apr 18 08:21:47 2001 Received: from klamath.leguin.org.uk (pc62-oxf1.cable.ntl.com [62.254.132.62]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA40123 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 08:30:36 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from ejb(a)leguin.org.uk) Received: from klamath.leguin.org.uk (klamath [127.0.0.1]) by klamath.leguin.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id WAA25491; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 22:21:49 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: klamath.leguin.org.uk: Host klamath [127.0.0.1] claimed to be klamath.leguin.org.uk Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> Organization: Leguin Network Services To: jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Subject: Re: [pups] very strange problems with 2.11BSD tcp/ip stack Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 22:21:47 +0000 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au References: <200104172132.XAA27697(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> In-Reply-To: <200104172132.XAA27697(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <0104172221470N.00508(a)klamath.leguin.org.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Tuesday 17 April 2001 9:32 pm, jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote: > I had exactely the same problem on my 11/73 with a DELQA running > 2.11BSD. I noticed this after I reconfigured the qe0 interface and the > routes while the system was up and running. It disapeared after I had > to powercycle the machine for other reasons. Yeah, that's probably the problem.. I was fiddling with the routes (changing the IP and subnet) just before it started.. after a reboot it seems fine. -larne-

23 years, 7 months

RE: [pups] Ken_Welsch_v6 and Dennis_v6

by Ian King

All, Yes, I saw the "rights" declaration (with a non-zero switch register) on a real machine (PDP-11/34a with programmer's panel), when I booted Ken's v6 distribution in single-user mode (there is a specific value you enter into the register, 173030, as documented in bproc.8; does anyone know why this value was used?). I'm not sure why, but I was never able to get Dennis' distribution to boot in the emulator; as a result, I didn't take the time to copy it over to an RK05 (using Warren's excellent tools) to boot on the 11/34. -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Wolfgang Helbig [mailto:helbig@Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE] Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 11:49 AM To: helbig(a)Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE; kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Ken_Welsch_v6 and Dennis_v6 > I always wondered why when booting the image it did not print the > notice so often displayed with V6. I've not looked at the physical > tape this image was pulled from in many years, but I cannot imagine > the fine folks at the University of Waterloo (where I worked for many > years) would have changed anything. So I would gather from your > detective work that based on dates, this tape just predates that > provided by Dennis Richie by such a short time? I do know No, the other way round: The tape you provided is from October 10th and the disk image provided by Dennis is from July 18th. The "RESTRICED RIGHT"- remark was put into the kernel on October 10th. It is on the tape that you provided, it is not on the disk image from Dennis. But the source code from the Lions book shows this remark as well. I don't know who changed main.c on October 10th 1975 (I lived in Israel at that time) You see the remark only if you set the switch register on the PDP-11 to a nonzero value befor booting. I installed V6 from the tape following the setup instructions. With the Supnik simulator, enter sim > d sr 1 sim > boot rk0 @rkunix And it will print your rights! Wolfgang

23 years, 7 months

[pups] V6 and Supnik-simulator

by Wolfgang Helbig

Hi, If the following README sounds interesting to you, maybe we can arrange to put a tar ball of it onto minnie? I also prepared postscript files of the V6-documentation. Anyone interested? Wolfgang First README: UNIX V6 on the Supnik simulator: -------------------------------- This directory contains tape files for the Supnik simulator and accompaning README files, which I produced when preparing an OS course at the Berufsakademie. Further it contains C-sources of two commands (enblock.c/deblock.c). These commands prepare a tapefile for the simulator (enblock) and produce a plain file from a simulator tapefile (deblock). The Supnik simulator can be obtained from: ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Sims/Supnik_2.3/sources/ I used the sim_2.3d.tar.gz tar ball. This directory contains a *.README and *.enb files with the following basenames: ctable: A bug in the input table for the C-compiler code generator is fixed. ctime: Some y2k related changes to V6. dcheck: Bug fix and enhancement of dcheck. dist: The V6 distribution tape: dist.README explains how to install and setup UNIX-V6 with the simulator. The file dist.enb is missing for copyright and space reasons, you have to prepare it yourself. (see enb.README). dotdot: Kernel enhancement: If in a root directoy of a mounted filesystem, let ".." mean the parent of the mount point, not the root directory. enb: Conventions and usage of .enb files. Explains how to prepare tape files for the Supnik simulator and tells you how to prepare the V6 distribution tape. ludiv: Derivation of a double word unsigned division algorithm, which is used in ctime. (no corresponding .enb) man: The man command, which was missing from the distribution, and some changes to make V6-nroff output readable on an xterm. So enb.README and dist.README are the next files you should read. If you have questions or find bugs or whatever, mail to helbig(a)informatik.ba-stuttgart.de Last but not least I thankfully acknowledge the work of the people who talked SCO into offering the ancient-UNIX source license, who collected the old distribution tapes and run the PUPS Archive. And of course I thank Bob Supnik for this great simulator! Second README: This directory contains some documentation as found on the UNIX V6 Distribution tape. The files were converted to postscript with groff and the usage of the V6 ms-macro package. (See the print shell script) Assembler: as.ps (*) Beginners Guide: beg.ps (*) C-Language Reference: c.ps (***) C-Tutorial: ctut.ps (**) ED-Tutorial: ed.ps (*) Summary of UNIX: hel.ps (*) Description of the C-IO-Library: iolib.ps () Description of the kernel IO/Subsystem: iosys.ps (**) Some thought about security: secur.ps (*) Instruction how to install V6 from tape:start.ps (***) Table of Contents of the Online Manual toc.ps (**) Overview of UNIX (ACM-paper) unix.ps (***) YACC - yet another compiler compiler yacc.ps () The more stars the more useful for the OS course. Two or more stars indicate high recommended! >From the V7-distribution I included "A tour through the UNIX-C-Compiler" (ctour.ps), which describes the internal workings of the said compiler. The format and meaning of /usr/sources/c/table.s is particular interesting reading if you want to learn about how a compiler generates machine code. The shell script "print" can be used to format the *.ps files. (on a contemporary UNIX system with groff) The file tmac.s contains V6-ms macros, which are used by some of the doc files. Some of the V6 doc files needed to be adopted to groff to render acceptable output. But the 25 year old troff sources were amazingly compatible with groff.

23 years, 7 months

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TUHS April 2001