I've assembled some notes from old manuals and other sources
on the formats used for on-disk file systems through the
Seventh Edition:
http://www.cita.utoronto.ca/~norman/old-unix/old-fs.html
Additional notes, comments on style, and whatnot are welcome.
(It may be sensible to send anything in the last two categories
directly to me, rather than to the whole list.)
Dear All,
I now have one of these but the tape hub locking mechanism is acting up. Has
anyone got a set of the maintenance docs for a TS05 that they can scan for me?
Regards
Robin
On 26 Feb, Steven M. Schultz wrote:
> I suspect that one of the switches enables the line frequency clock.
> With out a clock running things will work (at least minimally) as
> long as there are some interrupts happening.
Hmm? Why will it run with_out_ a clock?
>> OK. The machine is currently un-tar-ing /usr... :-)))
>
> Fantastic!
The next adventure is un-tar-ing the source and build my own kernel...
--
tschüß,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
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>From John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> Wed Feb 28 13:24:22 2001
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Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:24:22 +1100 (EST)
From: John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au>
Message-Id: <200102280324.OAA16488(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: RE: [pups] Swap device in V6?
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
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> The good news is, this fixed my ps problem - ps now works. The bad news
> is that cc still fails with the following error:
>
> fFatal error in /lib/c0
>
> The lowercase f appears, followed shortly by the rest of the line. I've
> tried the -c option to suppress linking, and still get this error. I
> don't get this error on the Supnik emulator.
'/lib/c0' is the first pass of the C compiler, after the preprocessor
has be run (the order is cc, c0, c1, c2 for the optimiser, and then 'as'
to produce the object file). I dimly recall that the various passes forked
by 'cc' didn't bother to catch signals, so any error just gives the
"Fatal error in ..." message. The '-c' would have no effect this early.
You could try the '-f' option, that uses a different compiler (with FP
emulation).
Assuming that you don't have a corrupted binary, or faulty processor/memory,
then is one obscure possibility. While a user program will not see any
difference between a 11/34 and 11/40 (except for floating point instructions),
the behaviour after a memory management fault IS different. The non ID space
processors (11/23/34/35/40/60) don't have a register to record the changes
in the general cpu registers after a fault, and it has to be calculated in
software. The 34 and 40 leave the registers in different states after a fault.
The classic example is "cmp -(sp), -(sp)" to extend the stack. This may generate
a fault because the stack needs to grow dynamically. The kernel extends the
stack (where automatic variables are allocated), and then attempts to
reexecute the instruction. In the case of a 34 using a standard m40.s,
it sometimes gets it wrong, and is very program and data dependent.
Does this ring any bells with people having ported unix to 11/34's?
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Wed Feb 28 13:54:49 2001
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-Id: <200102280354.f1S3soX00509(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6?
In-Reply-To: <200102280324.OAA16488(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au> from John Holden
at "Feb 28, 2001 02:24:22 pm"
To: John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au>
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:54:49 +1100 (EST)
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In article by John Holden:
> > The good news is, this fixed my ps problem - ps now works. The bad news
> > is that cc still fails with the following error:
> > fFatal error in /lib/c0
>
> Assuming that you don't have a corrupted binary, or faulty processor/memory,
> then is one obscure possibility. While a user program will not see any
> difference between a 11/34 and 11/40 (except for floating point instructions),
> the behaviour after a memory management fault IS different. The non ID space
> processors (11/23/34/35/40/60) don't have a register to record the changes
> in the general cpu registers after a fault, and it has to be calculated in
> software. The 34 and 40 leave the registers in different states after a fault.
>
>The classic example is "cmp -(sp), -(sp)" to extend the stack.This may generate
> a fault because the stack needs to grow dynamically. The kernel extends the
> stack (where automatic variables are allocated), and then attempts to
> reexecute the instruction. In the case of a 34 using a standard m40.s,
> it sometimes gets it wrong, and is very program and data dependent.
>
> Does this ring any bells with people having ported unix to 11/34's?
That comment made me go through and scan my old AUUGNs for some articles
written by Dave Horsfall [who is on this mailing list]. I found his
article on porting V6 to the 11/23, but not for a port to the 11/34.
However, at least two tar files in the UNIX Archive have an m34.s in them:
Applications/Shoppa_Tapes/usenix_80_delaware.gz:
delaware/maryland/os40/m34.s
Applications/Shoppa_Tapes/usenix_80_delaware.gz:m34.s:
toronto/case/sys/conf/m34.s
The first appears to be modifications to V6, I haven't checked the latter
yet. It may be something worth pursuing.
Warren
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>From Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> Wed Feb 28 13:53:22 2001
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From: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org>
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To: John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au>
cc: <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: RE: [pups] Swap device in V6?
In-Reply-To: <200102280324.OAA16488(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au>
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On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, John Holden wrote:
> The classic example is "cmp -(sp), -(sp)" to extend the stack. This may generate
[...]
> Does this ring any bells with people having ported unix to 11/34's?
I have actual code on how we handled this in those days; who wants it?
--
Dave Horsfall CL VK2KFU dave(a)geac.com.au Ph: +61 2 9978-7493 Fx: * 9978-7490
Geac Computers P/L (ERP Division) 2/57 Christie St, St Leonards 2065, Australia
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Wed Feb 28 14:00:30 2001
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-Id: <200102280400.f1S40Uk00578(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102281452230.2716-100000(a)fgh.au.geac.com> from Dave
Horsfall at "Feb 28, 2001 02:53:22 pm"
To: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org>
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:00:30 +1100 (EST)
CC: John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
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In article by Dave Horsfall:
> On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, John Holden wrote:
> > The classic example is "cmp -(sp), -(sp)" to extend the stack. This may generate
> [...]
> > Does this ring any bells with people having ported unix to 11/34's?
> I have actual code on how we handled this in those days; who wants it?
Mail it to me and I'll drop it in the archive somewhere.
Thanks Dave!
Warren
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Wed Feb 28 14:15:34 2001
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-Id: <200102280415.f1S4FYA00697(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: [pups] V6 or V6 patches for 11/34
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102281500120.2716-400000(a)fgh.au.geac.com> from Dave
Horsfall at "Feb 28, 2001 03:02:28 pm"
To: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org>
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:15:34 +1100 (EST)
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In article by Dave Horsfall:
> On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Warren Toomey wrote:
> > Mail it to me and I'll drop it in the archive somewhere.
> As attached... I see it actually came from ChemEng. It's for the 11/60,
> but has the 11/34 stuff in there as well.
>
> PS: I'm sure I did a port to the 11/34 :-)
I have moved the 11/34 patches into the UNIX Archive at
PDP-11/Bug_Fixes/V7_on11-34
They look like V7 patches though, so they may not be readily
usable on a V6 system. Those other files I mentioned may be
better. Your mileage may vary :-)
Dave, did you write an AUUGN paper for an 11/34 port, and what year
so I can go back and have another look.
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>From John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> Wed Feb 28 14:15:46 2001
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Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:15:46 +1100 (EST)
From: John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au>
Message-Id: <200102280415.PAA17381(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs.
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>John Holden wrote:
>> You can run into problems with the BHALT line, which can be asserted by a line
>> break on the console line (if enabled), or on some DHV serial card emulations.
>> Turning off a terminal may be enough to halt the process if it generates a
>> serial break as the power goes down.
>
>On my /53+ running 2.11, it's enough to kick in ODT.. Very anoying, really.
>Is there any way to disable this functionality, save rewiring the backplane?
You can usually disable the HALT on break feature. When the console is on
a separate serial card :-
DEC DLV11-E or F Remove jumper on wire-wrap pin H
DEC DLV11-J wire-wrap pins X-B enables boot on break
wire-wrap pins X-H enable halt (ODT) on break
nothing on X disables both
Webster WQDHV switch 4 at J9 OFF to ignore break.
For processor cards with serial ports, I only have a manual for 11/23+. DEC
is pretty consistent, so there should be options on 11/53 and latter 11/73's.
11/23+ KDF11-B? Remove jumper from J5-J4 and connect J3-J4
The jumpers aren't marked on the PCB, so looking
at the board with the Qbus fingers at the bottom,
handles at the top, there is a vertical row of
three jumpers on the right hand side of the board.
towards the bottom. Top to bottom is J5, J4 and J3.
If anybody has manuals for 11/53+ and the quad slot 11/73's and can send me
the details, I'll collate the information, and add it to my web page at :-
http://www.psych.usyd.edu.au/pdp-11/
The 11/53+ I have does have lots of jumpers, but no numbers or letters beside
them.
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>From Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> Wed Feb 28 15:59:41 2001
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From: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org>
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Subject: [pups] Re: V6 or V6 patches for 11/34
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On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Warren Toomey wrote:
> Dave, did you write an AUUGN paper for an 11/34 port, and what year
> so I can go back and have another look.
Vol 1 No 6. "Implementing UNIX on a PDP-11/34" (sub-titled: "What does
the `F' in "RK05-F" really stand for ?").
I still have the nroff source available... It's about 1983-ish.
--
Dave Horsfall CL VK2KFU dave(a)geac.com.au Ph: +61 2 9978-7493 Fx: * 9978-7490
Geac Computers P/L (ERP Division) 2/57 Christie St, St Leonards 2065, Australia
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On 27 Feb, John Holden wrote:
> On BA-23 boxes, there is a small, two lever DIP switch. [...]
Thanks for the enlightening.
As we are on the topic cabinets: Can a 11/73 run in a BA21x or BA440
cabinet?
> You can run into problems with the BHALT line, which can be asserted by a line
> break on the console line [...]
That is the reason why I disconnect console terminals bevore I power
them off (if there is no break disable switch on the machine). :-)
--
tschüß,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
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"Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> writes:
> > BTW: What serial parameters does 2.11BSD use? The first time I booted
> > UNIX I got garbage after "user mem = 307200". I seted the vt220 to 7e1
> > and this worked, but is it correct?
>
> Yes, 7e1 is correct - a legacy setting from eons ago.
This bothered me enough, a handful years ago, to change things a bit:
For getty/main.c:
*** main.c.ORIG Thu Dec 29 17:22:13 1994
--- main.c Thu Dec 29 17:21:28 1994
***************
*** 383,391 ****
--- 383,393 ----
char c;
c = cc;
+ #ifdef notdef /* hack to get rid of parity in getty */
c |= partab[c&0177] & 0200;
if (OP)
c ^= 0200;
+ #endif /* parity hack */
if (!UB) {
outbuf[obufcnt++] = c;
if (obufcnt >= OBUFSIZ)
For pdp/cons.c:
*** cons.c.ORIG Sun May 11 11:21:01 1997
--- cons.c Sun May 11 11:26:05 1997
***************
*** 62,68 ****
if ((tp->t_state&TS_ISOPEN) == 0) {
ttychars(tp);
tp->t_state = TS_ISOPEN|TS_CARR_ON;
! tp->t_flags = EVENP|ECHO|XTABS|CRMOD;
}
if (tp->t_state&TS_XCLUDE && u.u_uid != 0)
return (EBUSY);
--- 62,68 ----
if ((tp->t_state&TS_ISOPEN) == 0) {
ttychars(tp);
tp->t_state = TS_ISOPEN|TS_CARR_ON;
! tp->t_flags = ANYP|ECHO|XTABS|CRMOD;
}
if (tp->t_state&TS_XCLUDE && u.u_uid != 0)
return (EBUSY);
For sys/tty.c:
*** tty.c.ORIG Sun May 11 11:21:40 1997
--- tty.c Sun May 11 11:27:40 1997
***************
*** 48,53 ****
--- 48,54 ----
*/
char partab[] = {
+ #ifdef notdef /* even parity setup */
0001,0201,0201,0001,0201,0001,0001,0201,
0202,0004,0003,0201,0005,0206,0201,0001,
0201,0001,0001,0201,0001,0201,0201,0001,
***************
*** 64,69 ****
--- 65,88 ----
0200,0000,0000,0200,0000,0200,0200,0000,
0200,0000,0000,0200,0000,0200,0200,0000,
0000,0200,0200,0000,0200,0000,0000,0201,
+ #else /* no parity setup follows */
+ 0001,0001,0001,0001,0001,0001,0001,0001,
+ 0002,0004,0003,0001,0005,0006,0001,0001,
+ 0001,0001,0001,0001,0001,0001,0001,0001,
+ 0001,0001,0001,0001,0001,0001,0001,0001,
+ 0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,
+ 0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,
+ 0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,
+ 0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,
+ 0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,
+ 0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,
+ 0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,
+ 0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,
+ 0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,
+ 0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,
+ 0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,
+ 0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0001,
+ #endif /* end of parity selection stuff */
/*
* 7 bit ascii ends with the last character above,
Hmm. It's been a while. I should fire up the old /83 and get all the
latest patches from Steven applied, while it's still winter, and I can
run it and the VAX without overheating my machine room. :-)
-tih
--
Popularity is the hallmark of mediocrity. --Niles Crane, "Frasier"
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>From "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> Wed Feb 28 06:01:50 2001
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From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl>
To: "PUPS Mailing List (E-mail)" <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: [pups] DEC Ultrix-11 V3.1
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 21:01:50 +0100
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All,
Just a note to let you know that I am making good progress on
getting my modified Ultrix-11 V3.1 up and running. I'll be
uploading disk images of various MicroPDP-11 (/23, /53, /73,
/83) based systems for you to enjoy :)
Most of all, I should be able to run TK50 install tapes again as
of next week, given my working 11/83 with TK50.
Many thanks go to Bill Gunshannon for the initial image (I could
not get my boot tapes to work), Warren Toomey for letting me play
lots with VTserver and integrating it into Ultrix, Kees Stravers
for giving me the hardware I needed, and, of course, to The
Wanderer for figuring out my hardware problemns with me :)
Cheers,
Fred
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>From "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> Wed Feb 28 06:26:56 2001
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From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl>
To: "'PUPS Mailing List (E-mail)'" <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: [pups] DEC Ultrix-11 V3.1 part II
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 21:26:56 +0100
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All,
> Many thanks go to ...
Blah! And of course to Wilko Bulte, who provided the dumps of the
original V3.1 tapes, and with whom I spent quite some time debugging
the why-doesn-this-work problems with the initial tape dump files...
Fred (compiling stuff on the PDP so he can transfer stuff in and out
of the box without having to use the slow VTserver link ;-)
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I believe the practice John Holden describes from Mini-UNIX (only one
process in memory at a time, hence a context switch is the same as a
swap) was also part of the very earliest UNIXes, on the PDP-7 and the
11/20, neither of which had hardware memory management. Dennis Ritchie's
`Evolution of the UNIX Time-Sharing System' paper (in the October 1984
Bell Labs Technical Journal, the second issue to be devoted entirely to
UNIX), tells how it worked in some detail. It wouldn't surprise me if
the swap-to-fork mechanism lived on for a while even after the system
learned about memory management, but I don't actually know that. (Warren:
wbat does the old system you have do?)
Anyone who wants to verify what John describes for V6 can look in (among
other places) the Lions book; newproc is at line 1826, at the beginning
of slp.c.
Norman Wilson
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Tue Feb 27 10:15:44 2001
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: [pups] Forks under V6
In-Reply-To: <200102262353.KAA55588(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> from Norman Wilson
at "Feb 26, 2001 06:49:13 pm"
To: Norman Wilson <norman(a)nose.cs.utoronto.ca>
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 11:15:44 +1100 (EST)
CC: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
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In article by Norman Wilson:
> I believe the practice John Holden describes from Mini-UNIX (only one
> process in memory at a time, hence a context switch is the same as a
> swap) was also part of the very earliest UNIXes, on the PDP-7 and the
> 11/20, neither of which had hardware memory management. Dennis Ritchie's
> `Evolution of the UNIX Time-Sharing System' paper (in the October 1984
> Bell Labs Technical Journal, the second issue to be devoted entirely to
> UNIX), tells how it worked in some detail. It wouldn't surprise me if
> the swap-to-fork mechanism lived on for a while even after the system
> learned about memory management, but I don't actually know that. (Warren:
> wbat does the old system you have do?)
> Norman Wilson
For the versions on the 11/20 [that's V1, V2 and V3], as there was no
memory protection, there was only 1 process in core at any time. Thus,
the parent was definitely swapped out.
The Nsys kernel (just before V4) also swaps the parent out:
newproc()
{
/*
* make proc entry for new proc
*/
/*
* swap out old process
* to make image of new proc
*/
}
(http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/UnixTree/Nsys/sys/nsys/ken/slp.c.html)
We don't have kernel source for V4 :-(. It looks like V5 also swaps
the parent out:
http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/UnixTree/V5/usr/sys/ken/slp.c.html
By V6, the parent could stay in core if there was enough room:
newproc()
{
/*
* If there is not enough core for the
* new process, swap out the current process to generate the
* copy.
*/
if(a2 == NULL) {
savu(u.u_ssav);
xswap(rpp, 0, 0);
} else {
/*
* There is core, so just copy.
*/
rpp->p_addr = a2;
while(n--) copyseg(a1++, a2++);
}
u.u_procp = rip;
return(0);
}
(http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/UnixTree/V6/usr/sys/ken/slp.c.html)
I've omitted some lines of code here and there.
Warren
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>From John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> Tue Feb 27 13:02:55 2001
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Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 14:02:55 +1100 (EST)
From: John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au>
Message-Id: <200102270302.OAA31721(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs.
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On BA-23 boxes, there is a small, two lever DIP switch. Switch 1 in the
ON position (down) enables BEVENT on the Qbus. Without it enabled, there
will no line time clock interrupts generated, even if the LTC register at
777546 in enabled.
The second switch enables the 'restart' button when ON. Pressing 'restart'
starts a powerup sequence, running diagnostics and starting ODT or the
bootstrap (equivalent to cycling the power).
On the earlier BA-11 series boxes for the LSI-11 (and /23), there was an
equivalent switch on the front panel labeled "Aux". It could be used either to
enable the BEVENT or the remote switch for the cabinet power controller. The
11/23plus, 11/53/73 have programable LTC registers, so the switch is normally
left on. On the LSI-11,/2 and early 11/23, you would initially boot the machine
with it off, then enable it.
As for machines hanging without the LTC running, the problem is that the
scheduler (sched) never gets to run, since it sleeps waiting for the 'lbolt'
flag that is only ever set in the clock interrupt service routine. The timeout
queue also doesn't run, so only the internal 'init' process will ever get to run
PS
You can run into problems with the BHALT line, which can be asserted by a line
break on the console line (if enabled), or on some DHV serial card emulations.
Turning off a terminal may be enough to halt the process if it generates a
serial break as the power goes down.
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>From Jay Jaeger <cube1(a)home.com> Tue Feb 27 13:50:59 2001
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Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 21:50:59 -0600
To: pups-digest(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
From: Jay Jaeger <cube1(a)home.com>
Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6?
Cc: kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com, johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au
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In case someone didn't put 2+2 together... The V6 distribution has various
unix kernels. I don't recall for sure which kernel is linked to /unix, but
for sure it is only one of them.
So, if /rpunix is linked to /unix, and you boot rkunix, and then do a ps,
it will search /unix for the symbol for swapdev, look for the RP device in
/dev, and not find one. no swap dev.
The cure is, of course, quite simple:
# chdir /
# ln rkunix unix
And ps will now work fine.
[ Ian might have gotten this directly had he not hidden his real e-mail
address... ;-) ]
Jay Jaeger
At 09:32 AM 2/27/01 +1100, you wrote:
>Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 23:49:22 -0800
>From: "Ian King" <iking(a)killthewabbit.org>
>Subject: [pups] Swap device in V6?
>
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
>- ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C09F85.94050E80
>Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>I'm working with the install image provided by Ken Wellsch, and when I =
>execute the 'ps' command I get an error that says "no swap device". I'm =
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:27:12 -0800
>From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com>
>Subject: RE: [pups] Swap device in V6?
>
>I, too, have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed as 0,0. Relaetd to this, ps does something
>odd (at least to my experience) with the open() system call - it calls 'open
>("/dev")', without a second argument for mode; that seems like a no-no in C,
>
>- -----Original Message-----
>From: Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com]
>Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 9:52 AM
>To: Roger Ivie
>Cc: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
>Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6?
>
>The "ps" command source appears to be poking around /dev looking for a
>block device that matches the kernel value for swapdev (or something like
>that) and confirming it is a block device.
>
>Yet I see I have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed 0/0 and it is a block device but "ps"
>still gripes about "no swap device."
>
>So I'm missing something I guess.
>
>Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:44:23 +1100 (EST)
>From: John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au>
>Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6?
>
<< snip >>
>The 'ps' command looks up the symbol table of the unix kernel, and gets
>the device entry for swap (_swapdev), and the process table (_proc)
>It would open /dev as file, and read the directory entries to find a matching
>device entry, so it then had the name of a device to open (you cannot open
>a device based only in the major and minor device entries from a user
>process).
>It also uses /dev to decode tty entries into names.
>
>For 'ps' to work correctly, /unix had to be linked to the real kernel, say
>rkunix.
---
Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection
cube1(a)home.com visit http://members.home.net/thecomputercollection
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>From Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> Tue Feb 27 21:03:54 2001
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From: Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs.
Message-ID: <20010227120354.A9872(a)mud.stack.nl>
Reply-To: Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org>
References: <200102270302.OAA31721(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au>
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John Holden wrote:
> You can run into problems with the BHALT line, which can be asserted by a line
> break on the console line (if enabled), or on some DHV serial card emulations.
> Turning off a terminal may be enough to halt the process if it generates a
> serial break as the power goes down.
On my /53+ running 2.11, it's enough to kick in ODT.. Very anoying, really.
Is there any way to disable this functionality, save rewiring the backplane?
--
Martijn van Buul - Pino(a)dohd.org - http://www.stack.nl/~martijnb/
Geek code: G-- - Visit OuterSpace: mud.stack.nl 3333
Kees J. Bot: The sum of CPU power and user brain power is a constant.
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>From "Ian King" <iking(a)microsoft.com> Wed Feb 28 02:56:06 2001
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From: "Ian King" <iking(a)microsoft.com>
To: "Jay Jaeger" <cube1(a)home.com>, <pups-digest(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
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The good news is, this fixed my ps problem - ps now works. The bad news
is that cc still fails with the following error:
fFatal error in /lib/c0
The lowercase f appears, followed shortly by the rest of the line. I've
tried the -c option to suppress linking, and still get this error. I
don't get this error on the Supnik emulator.
Obviously, one way to do things would be to rebuild the kernel on the
emulator, and transfer it to the PDP-11. But that seems like cheating.
:-) Besides, the Supnik emulator is just too freeform; my 11/34a
doesn't have a half-dozen instructions the emulator implements. I've
tried the DBit E11 emulator (since it gives more control over processor
features), but I can't get it to boot these images. -- Ian
-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Jaeger [mailto:cube1@home.com]
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 7:51 PM
To: pups-digest(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Cc: kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com; johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6?
In case someone didn't put 2+2 together... The V6 distribution has
various
unix kernels. I don't recall for sure which kernel is linked to /unix,
but
for sure it is only one of them.
So, if /rpunix is linked to /unix, and you boot rkunix, and then do a
ps,
it will search /unix for the symbol for swapdev, look for the RP device
in
/dev, and not find one. no swap dev.
The cure is, of course, quite simple:
# chdir /
# ln rkunix unix
And ps will now work fine.
[ Ian might have gotten this directly had he not hidden his real e-mail
address... ;-) ]
Jay Jaeger
At 09:32 AM 2/27/01 +1100, you wrote:
>Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 23:49:22 -0800
>From: "Ian King" <iking(a)killthewabbit.org>
>Subject: [pups] Swap device in V6?
>
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
>- ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C09F85.94050E80
>Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>I'm working with the install image provided by Ken Wellsch, and when I
=
>execute the 'ps' command I get an error that says "no swap device".
I'm =
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:27:12 -0800
>From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com>
>Subject: RE: [pups] Swap device in V6?
>
>I, too, have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed as 0,0. Relaetd to this, ps does
something
>odd (at least to my experience) with the open() system call - it calls
'open
>("/dev")', without a second argument for mode; that seems like a no-no
in C,
>
>- -----Original Message-----
>From: Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com]
>Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 9:52 AM
>To: Roger Ivie
>Cc: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
>Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6?
>
>The "ps" command source appears to be poking around /dev looking for a
>block device that matches the kernel value for swapdev (or something
like
>that) and confirming it is a block device.
>
>Yet I see I have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed 0/0 and it is a block device but
"ps"
>still gripes about "no swap device."
>
>So I'm missing something I guess.
>
>Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:44:23 +1100 (EST)
>From: John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au>
>Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6?
>
<< snip >>
>The 'ps' command looks up the symbol table of the unix kernel, and gets
>the device entry for swap (_swapdev), and the process table (_proc)
>It would open /dev as file, and read the directory entries to find a
matching
>device entry, so it then had the name of a device to open (you cannot
open
>a device based only in the major and minor device entries from a user
>process).
>It also uses /dev to decode tty entries into names.
>
>For 'ps' to work correctly, /unix had to be linked to the real kernel,
say
>rkunix.
---
Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection
cube1(a)home.com visit
http://members.home.net/thecomputercollection
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>From Jay Jaeger [mailto:cube1@home.com] Wed Feb 28 04:27:56 2001
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Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:27:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu>
Message-Id: <200102271827.KAA16090(a)chiton.ucsd.edu>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs.
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> From owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Mon Feb 26 13:32 PST 2001
> From: jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de
> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 22:15:52 +0100 (CET)
> Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs.
> To: sms(a)moe.2bsd.com
> cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
>
> >> System configuration:
> >> 11/73 (M8192), one with FP accel. or one without. (Jumpers W1..W6 in,
> >> W7..W9 out, so that the CPU enters ODT at power up.)
> >
> > There is a jumper (I forget which one) that enables/disables the
> > 'halt' instruction.
> BINGO! Pulling W5 solved the problem. But then I seted it again to
> double check. (I changed location today and took only the cards and
> disk with me.) In the "new" BA23 the system runs even with the W5
> jumper installed. Then I noticed the different setting of the front
> panel DIP swich. The upper switch is off and the lower on. The switches
> of the other cabinet are both on. If I boot the machine with W5
> installed and the upper switch on it hangs. It continues to run
> immediately if it is switched off. What is the purpose of this
> switches?
Quote from _Microcomputer Products Handbook_ EB26078 41/85 (DEC)
"Control Panel
. . .
The 2-position linetime clock (LTC) switch (switch 1) is used to enable
or disable the LTC function. Setting switch 1 ON enables the LTC to
function under software control. Setting switch 1 to the OFF position
disables the LTC function. The other 2-position switch (switch 2) is
not used."
Note (by me) this refers to microPDP usage of the BA23. The LTC is not
used by the microVAX which could occupy the same box.
carl
On 26 Feb, Steven M. Schultz wrote:
>> 2.11 BSD UNIX #115: Sat Apr 22 19:07:25 PDT 2000
>> sms1@curly.2bsd.com:/usr/src/sys/GENERIC
> That looks good - and familiar ;)
;-)
> The next thing that should have come out is the '# ' single user
> prompt.
... like setup.ps says.
>> else happens. The "Run" LED at the front panel is off. I tried with an
>
> That sounds like the system 'halt'ed for some (unknown) reason.
> Sigh - that kernel should work fine, especially with a RQDX3/RD54.
Yes. All the devices where used in a MVII bevore and are knowen to
work. Thats a bit confusing.
>> System configuration:
>> 11/73 (M8192), one with FP accel. or one without. (Jumpers W1..W6 in,
>> W7..W9 out, so that the CPU enters ODT at power up.)
>
> There is a jumper (I forget which one) that enables/disables the
> 'halt' instruction.
BINGO! Pulling W5 solved the problem. But then I seted it again to
double check. (I changed location today and took only the cards and
disk with me.) In the "new" BA23 the system runs even with the W5
jumper installed. Then I noticed the different setting of the front
panel DIP swich. The upper switch is off and the lower on. The switches
of the other cabinet are both on. If I boot the machine with W5
installed and the upper switch on it hangs. It continues to run
immediately if it is switched off. What is the purpose of this
switches?
OK. The machine is currently un-tar-ing /usr... :-)))
Ahh, and an other question: Can the RT11 bootstrap listed in
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/bootstr…
be used to boot 2.11BSD? I have no bootstrap ROM card. (Emanuel, hint,
hint. ;-) ) So I use a minicom script to load the bootstrap via ODT.
But the current bootstrap script is for TMSCP. So I have to load the
bootblocks from tape...
--
tschüß,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
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>From John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> Tue Feb 27 07:44:23 2001
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Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:44:23 +1100 (EST)
From: John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au>
Message-Id: <200102262144.IAA24139(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au>
To: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6?
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
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The root device, swap device, swap size and offset are hard coded into the
kernel configuration file c.c. This is build by 'myconf', although a lot
of people would directly edit l.s and c.c (in /usr/sys/conf). There are no
magic /dev/swap entries. Edition 7 does the same thing.
For a RK05 disk, the filesystem would typically occupy 4000 blocks, with the
last 872 being allocated for swap. If you built a new root disk, you had to
be careful that the disk size you gave to 'mkfs', didn't overlap the
hard configured swap disk. No disk partitions.
You can find out the current values by using one of the debuggers (db or cdb)
to find the values of swap (_swapdev), swap size (_nswap), swap offset (_swplo)
and root device (_rootdev). You can also use 'nm' to get the symbol table,
and 'od' the kernel file /unix. The RK05 was usually the first entry in
the device switch tables, so the major/minor numbers are usually 0.
The 'ps' command looks up the symbol table of the unix kernel, and gets
the device entry for swap (_swapdev), and the process table (_proc)
It would open /dev as file, and read the directory entries to find a matching
device entry, so it then had the name of a device to open (you cannot open
a device based only in the major and minor device entries from a user process).
It also uses /dev to decode tty entries into names.
For 'ps' to work correctly, /unix had to be linked to the real kernel, say
rkunix.
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Tue Feb 27 08:32:38 2001
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: [pups] Announce: The Unix Tree
In-Reply-To: <200102261747.SAA16216(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> from "jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de"
at "Feb 26, 2001 06:47:11 pm"
To: jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:32:38 +1100 (EST)
CC: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
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In article by jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de:
> On 26 Feb, Warren Toomey wrote:
>
> > Because of the license restrictions, you need your normal UNIX Archive
> > username and password to browse.
> Hmm. Can you set up Apache to provide SSL / HTTPS? I don't like to send
> passwords unencrypted around the world.
> tsch__,
> Jochen
They are not real passwords, in a sense. There is only a userpool of
1,000 usernames/passwords.
When you register for access into the Unix Archive, you get one out of
the pool. The only purpose here is to prove to SCO that you indeed
agreed to their on-line license before you were given access to the
archive.
I'd be quite happy to completely dispense with the passwords altogether
and run an anonymous service. If/when Caldera work out what they are doing
with this stuff, I'll push them to allow for anonymous access.
Cheers,
Warren
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>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Tue Feb 27 08:26:24 2001
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Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:26:24 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
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To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs.
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Hi -
> From jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Feb 26 13:16:40 2001
> > There is a jumper (I forget which one) that enables/disables the
> > 'halt' instruction.
> BINGO! Pulling W5 solved the problem. But then I seted it again to
> double check. (I changed location today and took only the cards and
> disk with me.) In the "new" BA23 the system runs even with the W5
Years ago I was completely suprised that 'halt' in kernel mode did
not work and the system simply continued executing the next instruction.
> jumper installed. Then I noticed the different setting of the front
> panel DIP swich. The upper switch is off and the lower on. The switches
> of the other cabinet are both on. If I boot the machine with W5
> installed and the upper switch on it hangs. It continues to run
> immediately if it is switched off. What is the purpose of this
> switches?
I suspect that one of the switches enables the line frequency clock.
With out a clock running things will work (at least minimally) as
long as there are some interrupts happening.
I vaguely remember that some systems (11/23?) had an externally
enabled clock and if that switch was not set correctly the OS could
be installed but the system would "hang" later on due to no context
switch scheduling.
> OK. The machine is currently un-tar-ing /usr... :-)))
Fantastic!
> Ahh, and an other question: Can the RT11 bootstrap listed in
> http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/bootstr…
> be used to boot 2.11BSD? I have no bootstrap ROM card. (Emanuel, hint,
I think it will work. 2.11 is expecting the registers to contain
the following:
R0 = unit number
R1 = CSR of booting controller
as long as those are set it should not matter what bootcode is used.
Steven Schultz
sms(a)moe.2bsd.com
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>From Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> Tue Feb 27 08:39:30 2001
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Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6?
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On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Ken Wellsch wrote:
> Yet I see I have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed 0/0 and it is a block device but "ps"
> still gripes about "no swap device."
As I dimly recall, you need to link "/dev/drum" to whichever is the swap
device.
--
Dave Horsfall CL VK2KFU dave(a)geac.com.au Ph: +61 2 9978-7493 Fx: * 9978-7490
Geac Computers P/L (ERP Division) 2/57 Christie St, St Leonards 2065, Australia
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>From Dave Horsfall <dave(a)fgh.geac.com.au> Tue Feb 27 08:45:56 2001
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Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6?
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On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Roger Ivie wrote:
> It is indeed the case that V6 needs swap to fork. Forking in V6 is done
> essentially by swapping the task out to disk and (oops!) forgetting to
> delete the in-core copy. At least, that's how it looked to me.
Yes, that's how it was done, leading to the dreaded "panic: swap". I
think the swapped image became the parent, and the in-core one the child,
hence the child was pretty well guaranteed to run before the parent (it
typically did an exec() afterwards).
--
Dave Horsfall CL VK2KFU dave(a)geac.com.au Ph: +61 2 9978-7493 Fx: * 9978-7490
Geac Computers P/L (ERP Division) 2/57 Christie St, St Leonards 2065, Australia
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>From Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> Tue Feb 27 08:51:11 2001
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Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6?
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Dave Horsfall wrote:
>
> On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Ken Wellsch wrote:
>
> > Yet I see I have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed 0/0 and it is a block device but "ps"
> > still gripes about "no swap device."
>
> As I dimly recall, you need to link "/dev/drum" to whichever is the swap
> device.
After some wise person earlier explained the whole process in detail,
once I'd seen the final step ,I realized my error - I was booting rkunix
and as it turned out, had not matched /unix with that kernel... I just
tried it now and 'ps' is a happy camper. B^)
-- Ken
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>From Dave Horsfall <dave(a)fgh.geac.com.au> Tue Feb 27 08:40:09 2001
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On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Ken Wellsch wrote:
> Yet I see I have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed 0/0 and it is a block device but "ps"
> still gripes about "no swap device."
As I dimly recall, you need to link "/dev/drum" to whichever is the swap
device.
--
Dave Horsfall CL VK2KFU dave(a)geac.com.au Ph: +61 2 9978-7493 Fx: * 9978-7490
Geac Computers P/L (ERP Division) 2/57 Christie St, St Leonards 2065, Australia
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>From John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> Tue Feb 27 09:12:07 2001
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Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:12:07 +1100 (EST)
From: John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au>
Message-Id: <200102262312.KAA26058(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: [pups] Forks under V6
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> It is indeed the case that V6 needs swap to fork. Forking in V6 is done
> essentially by swapping the task out to disk and (oops!) forgetting to
> delete the in-core copy. At least, that's how it looked to me.
No. Fork calls the internal version 'newproc'. It tries to allocate memory from
the core map for the new process, and only when it fails that it creates the new
process as a swap image. Effectively, it copies out the parent as a swap
image, but attaches it to the child process (the parent isn't really swapped).
In 'miniunix', the V6 strip down for pdp-11's without memory management
(pdp11/20, 05, 10 and 40's without the proper options), only a single process
would fit in core, so every context switch or fork required swapping.
I cannot speak for pre V6
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>From Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)update.uu.se> Tue Feb 27 09:46:45 2001
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From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)update.uu.se>
To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs.
In-Reply-To: <200102262226.f1QMQOv11403(a)moe.2bsd.com>
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On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Steven M. Schultz wrote:
> > jumper installed. Then I noticed the different setting of the front
> > panel DIP swich. The upper switch is off and the lower on. The switches
> > of the other cabinet are both on. If I boot the machine with W5
> > installed and the upper switch on it hangs. It continues to run
> > immediately if it is switched off. What is the purpose of this
> > switches?
>
> I suspect that one of the switches enables the line frequency clock.
> With out a clock running things will work (at least minimally) as
> long as there are some interrupts happening.
Could be. I also remember seeing somewhere that the two dip switches on
the front panel of BA23 boxes should be set differently for PDP-11s and
VAXen. Appearantly they expect the boot button to behave in different ways
on the bus as well... (and HALT I think)
Don't have that docuemnt anywhere close though...
> I vaguely remember that some systems (11/23?) had an externally
> enabled clock and if that switch was not set correctly the OS could
> be installed but the system would "hang" later on due to no context
> switch scheduling.
That definitely happens for RSX atleast. You *must* have a clock interrupt
running, or you are cooked.
> > Ahh, and an other question: Can the RT11 bootstrap listed in
> > http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/bootstr…
> > be used to boot 2.11BSD? I have no bootstrap ROM card. (Emanuel, hint,
>
> I think it will work. 2.11 is expecting the registers to contain
> the following:
>
> R0 = unit number
> R1 = CSR of booting controller
>
> as long as those are set it should not matter what bootcode is used.
Then it's more forgiving than the RSX boot code. I have tried that
bootstrap and it won't boot RSX atleast, that much I know...
Speaking of which; does anyone have boot roms for TMSCP for the M9312?
Johnny
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
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On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Ken Wellsch wrote:
>
> Yet I see I have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed 0/0 and it is a block device but "ps"
> still gripes about "no swap device."
>
> So I'm missing something I guess.
>
Based on my recent experience with Ultrix-11 (which warns you not
to try and change the partiitioning on certain drive types as the
kernel has some references hard-coded) what you may be missing are
the devices for the individual partitions. Is there an equivalent
to MAKEDEV?? Ultrix uses a program named "msf" (for "make special
file") and so you never see what the partitioning layout is unless
you peek at the sources.
Good luck.
bill
--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
bill(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>
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>From Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> Tue Feb 27 04:27:12 2001
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From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com>
To: "'Ken Wellsch'" <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com>, Roger Ivie <IVIE(a)cc.usu.edu>
Cc: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: RE: [pups] Swap device in V6?
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:27:12 -0800
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I, too, have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed as 0,0. Relaetd to this, ps does something
odd (at least to my experience) with the open() system call - it calls 'open
("/dev")', without a second argument for mode; that seems like a no-no in C,
but for C of this era I'm not sure. That call seems to succeed; it's a few
statements later where it fails with the "no swap device" console message.
But where cc seems to be failing (in /lib/c0), it is doing a fork(),
execve() and wait(), and if the system needs to swap to do that, not being
able to find swap space would sure bugger things up.
I'll examine my /dev/rk0 structure next.... -- Ian
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com]
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 9:52 AM
To: Roger Ivie
Cc: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6?
Roger Ivie wrote:
>
> Ian King said:
> > I've combed the docs and the code, and I can't find ANYthing about how =
> > swap space is assigned or designated. Does anyone have any hints? =
> > Thanks -- Ian=20
>
> Yeah, I figured this out a while ago. Unfortunately, I'm in the middle
> of changing employers so everything's in boxes at the moment.
>
> Basically, the swap space is hard-coded into the device drivers. If you
> take a look at, for example, the RK05 driver you'll see that one of the
> drives is smaller than the others. That extra space is the swap space.
> I forget how the rest of the system is informed of the swap space, but
> it's done in the disk driver sources IIRC.
I took a quick look at this this morning and as Roger says, the kernel
is built with a wired in swap. In the case of the kernel 'rkunix,' in
looking at usr/sys/run or something like that, I see they are wiring
the swap to be device major=0 and minor=0 which is the root RK05 drive.
Looking at the code it seems the first 4000 blocks are file system and
a following 782 (or something like that) are for swap.
The "ps" command source appears to be poking around /dev looking for a
block device that matches the kernel value for swapdev (or something like
that) and confirming it is a block device.
Yet I see I have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed 0/0 and it is a block device but "ps"
still gripes about "no swap device."
So I'm missing something I guess.
-- Ken
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>From Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com] Tue Feb 27 04:04:53 2001
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Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:04:53 -0600 (MDT)
From: Roger Ivie <IVIE(a)cc.usu.edu>
Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6?
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Ian King wrote:
> But where cc seems to be failing (in /lib/c0), it is doing a fork(),
> execve() and wait(), and if the system needs to swap to do that, not being
> able to find swap space would sure bugger things up.
It is indeed the case that V6 needs swap to fork. Forking in V6 is done
essentially by swapping the task out to disk and (oops!) forgetting to
delete the in-core copy. At least, that's how it looked to me.
Roger Ivie
ivie(a)cc.usu.edu
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>From Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> Tue Feb 27 05:06:07 2001
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From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com>
To: "'Steven M. Schultz'" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Serial settings (was RE: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs.)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:06:07 -0800
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FWIW, I noticed that Unix V6 is happier with 7E1 for its console, too; I'm
using a terminal emulator, and was getting garbage from V6 (but had had no
problems with RSX-11). -- Ian
-----Original Message-----
From: Steven M. Schultz [mailto:sms@moe.2bsd.com]
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 10:22 AM
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs.
[snip]
> BTW: What serial parameters does 2.11BSD use? The first time I booted
> UNIX I got garbage after "user mem = 307200". I seted the vt220 to 7e1
> and this worked, but is it correct?
Yes, 7e1 is correct - a legacy setting from eons ago.
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>From "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> Tue Feb 27 05:41:07 2001
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From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl>
To: "PUPS Mailing List (E-mail)" <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: [pups] Ultrix-11 V3.1 hang on DEQNA ?
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:41:07 +0100
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All,
I'm almost there. If only I can tell my 11/23+ _not_ to hang as soon
as I enable networking by configuring the Ethernet (qe0; DEQNA) card
with ifconfig.
Does anyone have docs regarding the DEQNA and/or DELQA so I can check the
board's physical settings?
Thx,
Fted
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>From Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Tue Feb 27 06:17:18 2001
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Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:17:18 +0000
To: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com>
Cc: "'Ken Wellsch'" <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com>, Roger Ivie <IVIE(a)cc.usu.edu>,
PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
From: Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6?
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In later unixes, 2.11 for instance, /dev/swap is a link to the swap
device. Is ps attempting to open /dev/swap and finding that it either
isn't there or it is mknoded to an incorrect device?
Robin
In message <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C0235D1C9(a)red-msg-06.redmond.
corp.microsoft.com>, Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> writes
>I, too, have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed as 0,0. Relaetd to this, ps does something
>odd (at least to my experience) with the open() system call - it calls 'open
>("/dev")', without a second argument for mode; that seems like a no-no in C,
>but for C of this era I'm not sure. That call seems to succeed; it's a few
>statements later where it fails with the "no swap device" console message.
>
>But where cc seems to be failing (in /lib/c0), it is doing a fork(),
>execve() and wait(), and if the system needs to swap to do that, not being
>able to find swap space would sure bugger things up.
>
>I'll examine my /dev/rk0 structure next.... -- Ian
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com]
>Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 9:52 AM
>To: Roger Ivie
>Cc: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
>Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6?
>
>
>Roger Ivie wrote:
>>
>> Ian King said:
>> > I've combed the docs and the code, and I can't find ANYthing about how =
>> > swap space is assigned or designated. Does anyone have any hints? =
>> > Thanks -- Ian=20
>>
>> Yeah, I figured this out a while ago. Unfortunately, I'm in the middle
>> of changing employers so everything's in boxes at the moment.
>>
>> Basically, the swap space is hard-coded into the device drivers. If you
>> take a look at, for example, the RK05 driver you'll see that one of the
>> drives is smaller than the others. That extra space is the swap space.
>> I forget how the rest of the system is informed of the swap space, but
>> it's done in the disk driver sources IIRC.
>
>I took a quick look at this this morning and as Roger says, the kernel
>is built with a wired in swap. In the case of the kernel 'rkunix,' in
>looking at usr/sys/run or something like that, I see they are wiring
>the swap to be device major=0 and minor=0 which is the root RK05 drive.
>
>Looking at the code it seems the first 4000 blocks are file system and
>a following 782 (or something like that) are for swap.
>
>The "ps" command source appears to be poking around /dev looking for a
>block device that matches the kernel value for swapdev (or something like
>that) and confirming it is a block device.
>
>Yet I see I have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed 0/0 and it is a block device but "ps"
>still gripes about "no swap device."
>
>So I'm missing something I guess.
>
>-- Ken
____________________________________________________________________
Robin Birch robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk
M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD Old computers and radios always welcome
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>From Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> Tue Feb 27 06:22:35 2001
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To: Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk>
CC: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6?
References: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C0235D1C9(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> <ZchHXUAOnrm6Ewzo(a)ruffnready.co.uk>
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I know I for one had forgotten just what "the state of the art" was with
UNIX back in 1975. If you can, please do look at the source for V6/ps.
Really. /dev/swap? In your dreams! B^) Cheers, -- Ken
Robin Birch wrote:
>
> In later unixes, 2.11 for instance, /dev/swap is a link to the swap
> device. Is ps attempting to open /dev/swap and finding that it either
> isn't there or it is mknoded to an incorrect device?
>
> Robin
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>From Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> Tue Feb 27 06:29:48 2001
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From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com>
To: "'Robin Birch'" <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk>
Cc: "'Ken Wellsch'" <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com>, Roger Ivie <IVIE(a)cc.usu.edu>,
PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: RE: [pups] Swap device in V6?
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:29:48 -0800
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I was wondering about that, as I've seen that sort of thing in other *nixes,
too. I tried creating a link to /dev/swap from /dev/rk0, and it didn't help
ps (same error message).
I'm going to figure out some way to print out ps.c later and trace through
it; I was going through it with ed on the PDP-11 (which was fun, in a
twisted, nostalgic sort of way). If I can figure out exactly how it's
looking for what it's looking for, perhaps I can figure out why it isn't
finding it. :-)
I've found the stuff on coming up in single-user mode, too - with 173030 in
the switch register (I have the programmer's panel on my 11/34a). FYI. --
Ian
-----Original Message-----
From: Robin Birch [mailto:robin@ruffnready.co.uk]
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 12:17 PM
To: Ian King
Cc: 'Ken Wellsch'; Roger Ivie; PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6?
In later unixes, 2.11 for instance, /dev/swap is a link to the swap
device. Is ps attempting to open /dev/swap and finding that it either
isn't there or it is mknoded to an incorrect device?
Robin
In message <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C0235D1C9(a)red-msg-06.redmond.
corp.microsoft.com>, Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> writes
>I, too, have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed as 0,0. Relaetd to this, ps does something
>odd (at least to my experience) with the open() system call - it calls
'open
>("/dev")', without a second argument for mode; that seems like a no-no in
C,
>but for C of this era I'm not sure. That call seems to succeed; it's a few
>statements later where it fails with the "no swap device" console message.
>
>But where cc seems to be failing (in /lib/c0), it is doing a fork(),
>execve() and wait(), and if the system needs to swap to do that, not being
>able to find swap space would sure bugger things up.
>
>I'll examine my /dev/rk0 structure next.... -- Ian
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com]
>Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 9:52 AM
>To: Roger Ivie
>Cc: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
>Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6?
>
>
>Roger Ivie wrote:
>>
>> Ian King said:
>> > I've combed the docs and the code, and I can't find ANYthing about how
=
>> > swap space is assigned or designated. Does anyone have any hints? =
>> > Thanks -- Ian=20
>>
>> Yeah, I figured this out a while ago. Unfortunately, I'm in the middle
>> of changing employers so everything's in boxes at the moment.
>>
>> Basically, the swap space is hard-coded into the device drivers. If you
>> take a look at, for example, the RK05 driver you'll see that one of the
>> drives is smaller than the others. That extra space is the swap space.
>> I forget how the rest of the system is informed of the swap space, but
>> it's done in the disk driver sources IIRC.
>
>I took a quick look at this this morning and as Roger says, the kernel
>is built with a wired in swap. In the case of the kernel 'rkunix,' in
>looking at usr/sys/run or something like that, I see they are wiring
>the swap to be device major=0 and minor=0 which is the root RK05 drive.
>
>Looking at the code it seems the first 4000 blocks are file system and
>a following 782 (or something like that) are for swap.
>
>The "ps" command source appears to be poking around /dev looking for a
>block device that matches the kernel value for swapdev (or something like
>that) and confirming it is a block device.
>
>Yet I see I have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed 0/0 and it is a block device but "ps"
>still gripes about "no swap device."
>
>So I'm missing something I guess.
>
>-- Ken
____________________________________________________________________
Robin Birch robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk
M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD Old computers and radios always welcome
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>From "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> Tue Feb 27 07:01:36 2001
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To: "'Robin Birch'" <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk>, Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com>
Cc: "'Ken Wellsch'" <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com>, Roger Ivie <IVIE(a)cc.usu.edu>,
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Subject: RE: [pups] Swap device in V6?
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 22:01:36 +0100
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> In later unixes, 2.11 for instance, /dev/swap is a link to the swap
> device. Is ps attempting to open /dev/swap and finding that it either
> isn't there or it is mknoded to an incorrect device?
That is often the case.. dunno about V6 though.. is a long time ago :)
--f
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Hi.
Yesterday I installed 2.11BSD on my PDP11/73. Everything went fine up
to the first time when UNIX was booted. The kernel came up, init was
started, autoconfig run and printed out the devices it had (not) found.
My disk and tape were found but then, after printing:
-----
73Boot from tms(0,0,0) at 0174500
: ra(0,0)unix
Boot: bootdev=02400 bootcsr=0172150
2.11 BSD UNIX #115: Sat Apr 22 19:07:25 PDT 2000
sms1@curly.2bsd.com:/usr/src/sys/GENERIC
ra0: Ver 3 mod 3
ra0: RD54 size=311200
phys mem = 4186112
avail mem = 3962176
user mem = 307200
June 8 21:21:24 init: configure system
hk ? csr 177440 vector 210 skipped: No CSR.
ht ? csr 172440 vector 224 skipped: No CSR.
ra 0 csr 172150 vector 154 vectorset attached
rl ? csr 174400 vector 160 skipped: No CSR.
tm ? csr 172520 vector 224 skipped: No CSR.
tms 0 csr 174500 vector 260 vectorset attached
ts ? csr 172520 vector 224 skipped: No CSR.
xp ? csr 176700 vector 254 skipped: No CSR.
-----
it hangs. Characters I type into the terminal are echod, but nothing
else happens. The "Run" LED at the front panel is of. I tried with an
other CPU und memory card, but the same happend.
System configuration:
11/73 (M8192), one with FP accel. or one without. (Jumpers W1..W6 in,
W7..W9 out, so that the CPU enters ODT at power up.)
4MB or 1MB memory card (non DEC)
Sigma DLV11-J clone for console (CSR 1765{0,1,2}0 and 177560)
TK50 with TQK50 (CSR 174500)
RA54, last week reformated on a MV2000 with RQDX3 (CSR 172150)
BA23 from a MVII.
BTW: What serial parameters does 2.11BSD use? The first time I booted
UNIX I got garbage after "user mem = 307200". I seted the vt220 to 7e1
and this worked, but is it correct?
--
tschuess,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz
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>From Roger Ivie <IVIE(a)cc.usu.edu> Tue Feb 27 03:31:41 2001
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Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:31:41 -0700 (MST)
From: Roger Ivie <IVIE(a)cc.usu.edu>
Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6?
To: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
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Ian King said:
> I've combed the docs and the code, and I can't find ANYthing about how =
> swap space is assigned or designated. Does anyone have any hints? =
> Thanks -- Ian=20
Yeah, I figured this out a while ago. Unfortunately, I'm in the middle
of changing employers so everything's in boxes at the moment.
Basically, the swap space is hard-coded into the device drivers. If you
take a look at, for example, the RK05 driver you'll see that one of the
drives is smaller than the others. That extra space is the swap space.
I forget how the rest of the system is informed of the swap space, but
it's done in the disk driver sources IIRC.
Roger Ivie
ivie(a)cc.usu.edu
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>From Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> Tue Feb 27 03:51:49 2001
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Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6?
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Roger Ivie wrote:
>
> Ian King said:
> > I've combed the docs and the code, and I can't find ANYthing about how =
> > swap space is assigned or designated. Does anyone have any hints? =
> > Thanks -- Ian=20
>
> Yeah, I figured this out a while ago. Unfortunately, I'm in the middle
> of changing employers so everything's in boxes at the moment.
>
> Basically, the swap space is hard-coded into the device drivers. If you
> take a look at, for example, the RK05 driver you'll see that one of the
> drives is smaller than the others. That extra space is the swap space.
> I forget how the rest of the system is informed of the swap space, but
> it's done in the disk driver sources IIRC.
I took a quick look at this this morning and as Roger says, the kernel
is built with a wired in swap. In the case of the kernel 'rkunix,' in
looking at usr/sys/run or something like that, I see they are wiring
the swap to be device major=0 and minor=0 which is the root RK05 drive.
Looking at the code it seems the first 4000 blocks are file system and
a following 782 (or something like that) are for swap.
The "ps" command source appears to be poking around /dev looking for a
block device that matches the kernel value for swapdev (or something like
that) and confirming it is a block device.
Yet I see I have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed 0/0 and it is a block device but "ps"
still gripes about "no swap device."
So I'm missing something I guess.
-- Ken
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>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Tue Feb 27 04:22:23 2001
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Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:22:23 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <200102261822.f1QIMNt09941(a)moe.2bsd.com>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs.
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Hi -
> From: jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de
>
> Yesterday I installed 2.11BSD on my PDP11/73. Everything went fine up
> to the first time when UNIX was booted. The kernel came up, init was
> started, autoconfig run and printed out the devices it had (not) found.
> 2.11 BSD UNIX #115: Sat Apr 22 19:07:25 PDT 2000
> sms1@curly.2bsd.com:/usr/src/sys/GENERIC
That looks good - and familiar ;)
> xp ? csr 176700 vector 254 skipped: No CSR.
> -----
> it hangs. Characters I type into the terminal are echod, but nothing
The next thing that should have come out is the '# ' single user
prompt.
> else happens. The "Run" LED at the front panel is off. I tried with an
That sounds like the system 'halt'ed for some (unknown) reason.
Sigh - that kernel should work fine, especially with a RQDX3/RD54. I
am at a loss to explain/diagnose the problem.
> System configuration:
> 11/73 (M8192), one with FP accel. or one without. (Jumpers W1..W6 in,
> W7..W9 out, so that the CPU enters ODT at power up.)
There is a jumper (I forget which one) that enables/disables the
'halt' instruction. If 'halt' is disabled then the 'halt' instruction
is treated as a 'nop' even in kernel mode. If 'halt' is enabled then
the console ODT will be entered if the kernel executes a halt.
Looks like we'll have to try and solve this the hard way ;(
After the system hangs press the 'halt' button on the front of the
machine and note the PC - hopefully that value will give a clue as
to where the kernel is at the time (likely in a clock interrupt).
> BTW: What serial parameters does 2.11BSD use? The first time I booted
> UNIX I got garbage after "user mem = 307200". I seted the vt220 to 7e1
> and this worked, but is it correct?
Yes, 7e1 is correct - a legacy setting from eons ago.
Steven Schultz
sms(a)moe.2bsd.com
On Sun, 25 Feb 2001, Robin Birch wrote:
> Dear All,
> Having got to the point where I can get ultrix trying to boot on p11 I
> can confirm that it complains of stray interrupts on p11 as well. A
> thought occurred to me over the weekend that I haven't had time to try
> out. Is this the toy clock. It is certainly built into p11, is it
> built into Bob Supnik's emulator and if so, does it generate interrupts?
Nope. The TOY clock don't generate interrupts.
Johnny
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
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>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Mon Feb 26 04:48:51 2001
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Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 10:48:51 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <200102251848.f1PImpn25642(a)moe.2bsd.com>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] Stray Interupts
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> From: Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk>
>
> Having got to the point where I can get ultrix trying to boot on p11 I
> can confirm that it complains of stray interrupts on p11 as well. A
> thought occurred to me over the weekend that I haven't had time to try
> out. Is this the toy clock. It is certainly built into p11, is it
> built into Bob Supnik's emulator and if so, does it generate interrupts?
>
As Billy pointed out the TOY clock does not generate interrupts. The
line frequency clock does but the TOY clock does not.
Looking at the Ultrix-3.1 sources I found something that may be
relevant in sys/errlog.c:
/*
* Log a stray device interrupt.
*
* A stray interrupt is defined as one that occurs for
* a configured device through a valid vector address,
* but is unexpected. In the case of big disks, a stray
* interrupt is logged when the interrupt service routine
* is entered and the device is not active and no attention
* summary bits are set.
*/
One guess is that other systems do not use or concern themselves with
'attention summary' bits and simply dismiss the interrupt without
comment.
Looking at the errlogs (I do not know what the commands for doing that
are but a big of digging would probably find them) might yield more
information.
Cheers.
Steven Schultz
sms(a)moe.2bsd.com
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>From Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Mon Feb 26 07:02:52 2001
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Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 21:02:52 +0000
To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
From: Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [pups] Stray Interupts
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Rats,
This means that it won't be simple to fix!!!!!!!!
It could mean that running Ultrix on a simulator isn't on without some
work on the emulators themselves. When the SI message is generated it
comes out with a number that looks like an address. Would this point to
the source of the interrupt? On p11 it is a constant address, I just
can't remember what it is for the moment.
Cheers
Robin
In message <200102251848.f1PImpn25642(a)moe.2bsd.com>, Steven M. Schultz
<sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> writes
>> From: Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk>
>>
>> Having got to the point where I can get ultrix trying to boot on p11 I
>> can confirm that it complains of stray interrupts on p11 as well. A
>> thought occurred to me over the weekend that I haven't had time to try
>> out. Is this the toy clock. It is certainly built into p11, is it
>> built into Bob Supnik's emulator and if so, does it generate interrupts?
>>
> As Billy pointed out the TOY clock does not generate interrupts. The
> line frequency clock does but the TOY clock does not.
>
> Looking at the Ultrix-3.1 sources I found something that may be
> relevant in sys/errlog.c:
>
>/*
> * Log a stray device interrupt.
> *
> * A stray interrupt is defined as one that occurs for
> * a configured device through a valid vector address,
> * but is unexpected. In the case of big disks, a stray
> * interrupt is logged when the interrupt service routine
> * is entered and the device is not active and no attention
> * summary bits are set.
> */
>
> One guess is that other systems do not use or concern themselves with
> 'attention summary' bits and simply dismiss the interrupt without
> comment.
>
> Looking at the errlogs (I do not know what the commands for doing that
> are but a big of digging would probably find them) might yield more
> information.
>
> Cheers.
>
> Steven Schultz
> sms(a)moe.2bsd.com
____________________________________________________________________
Robin Birch robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk
M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD Old computers and radios always welcome
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>From Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> Mon Feb 26 07:37:21 2001
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Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 16:37:21 -0500 (EST)
From: Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu>
To: Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk>
cc: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] Stray Interupts
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On Sun, 25 Feb 2001, Robin Birch wrote:
> Rats,
> This means that it won't be simple to fix!!!!!!!!
>
> It could mean that running Ultrix on a simulator isn't on without some
> work on the emulators themselves.
Well, that's my estimation. I thought at first it was harmless, but
work I have attempted over this weekend using the Supnik emulator has
changed my mind.
> When the SI message is generated it
> comes out with a number that looks like an address. Would this point to
> the source of the interrupt? On p11 it is a constant address, I just
> can't remember what it is for the moment.
Let me guess: 176700. :-)
It's the csr of the device that issued the stray interrupt. My guess is
your having the same trouble with p11 that I am having with Bob's. It's
the hp device and every RP disk access causes stray interrupts.
bill
--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
bill(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>
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>From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Mon Feb 26 04:57:10 2001
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Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 13:57:10 -0500
From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
To: Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu>
Cc: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au,
Hartmut Brandt <brandt(a)fokus.gmd.de>,
Joerg Micheel <joerg(a)begemot.org>
Subject: [pups] Begemot emulator (was: Stray Interupts)
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On Friday, 23 February 2001 at 8:43:41 -0500, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, Steven M. Schultz wrote:
>> so the machine can be placed on a network. P11's also quite a bit
>> more efficient/fast. Configuration can be puzzling but sample
>> config files are available (from various PUPS folks who run P11).
>
> I would love to us the Begemot emulator. I have the latest version but
> I have been unable to get any of my disk images to work. Can anyone
> tell me if you can use the disk images from the other emulators and if
> so, how?? Do they have to be converted somehow like tapes??
*sigh* The Begemot emulator has bitrotted a little. I can no longer
get it to work, though admittedly I didn't try very hard the last
time, and it may be something as simple as a corrupted disk image.
But the other thing is that the Begemot ftp site is no longer
accessible, which is somewhat embarrassing, since I host it. I'm
copying J�rg Micheel and Harti Brandt, the Begemot people, and I hope
that we'll get it up again soon. J�rg, Harti, the problem is that I
migrated a system disk, and seem to have lost the connection to the
ftp files. You should find them somewhere on the file systems
/freebie or /freebie/usr, which are the old system disk, still
spinning.
Greg
--
Finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key
See complete headers for address and phone numbers
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>From "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> Mon Feb 26 10:39:25 2001
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From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl>
To: "'Bill Gunshannon'" <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu>,
Robin Birch
<robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk>
Cc: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: RE: [pups] Stray Interupts
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 01:39:25 +0100
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All,
Robin Birch wrote:
> > This means that it won't be simple to fix!!!!!!!!
Sure, fix the source :)
> > It could mean that running Ultrix on a simulator isn't on
> without some work on the emulators themselves.
I have been running Ultrix-11 V3.1 on Ersatz-11 without any of that. It
_could_ be linked to interrupt latency issues- Ultrix tells controller
to do something (e.g., three commands to read a sector). Controller does
as told, generating an interrupt for each of the requests saying its ready.
However, because of latency, only ints 1 and 3 actually get delivered within
the expected timeframe (can happen).
Usually (from my experience with writing Unix kernel drivers), this is not
a problem, because the "message" from (in this case) int2 will be picked up
when we start to service int3, which we _did_ see. So, even though we didnt
get int2, we were fine.
Now... emulator wakes up again, goes "oi, i messed up, better go send that
int now" and sends the int. The driver no longer _awaits_ an interrupt
(because
we cleared the AttentionNeeded flags when servicing int3), so... we get the
"stray int" message.
If this logic is correct, it will get worse when loading the host system
heavily, so latency will occur more often. On a very fast box (like my quad
CPU
P3/850 Linux box) it should hardly occur.
Anyone?
Fred (hacking on the V3.1 source to not fuck up TCP/IP on the 11/23 ..)
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Mon Feb 26 11:28:04 2001
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
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Subject: [pups] Announce: The Unix Tree
To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:28:04 +1100 (EST)
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Hi all,
A while ago I floated the idea of a web-browsable set of old Unix
distributions, along with a way of finding out how each file evolved. Well,
after a bit of coding on the weekend, I now have this available. It's
called the Unix Tree, and the URL is http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/UnixTree/
Because of the license restrictions, you need your normal UNIX Archive
username and password to browse.
I've only inserted research editions up to 7th Edition for now, in case
I have to make major changes. However, tell me what you think.
Cheers, and off to have some lunch.
Warren
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>From Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> Mon Feb 26 12:45:53 2001
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Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 21:45:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu>
To: "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl>
cc: PUPS Mailing List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: RE: [pups] Stray Interupts
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On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Fred N. van Kempen wrote:
> > > It could mean that running Ultrix on a simulator isn't on
> > without some work on the emulators themselves.
> I have been running Ultrix-11 V3.1 on Ersatz-11 without any of that. It
Which I think says a lot about the quality of Ersatz-11.
> _could_ be linked to interrupt latency issues- Ultrix tells controller
> to do something (e.g., three commands to read a sector). Controller does
> as told, generating an interrupt for each of the requests saying its ready.
> However, because of latency, only ints 1 and 3 actually get delivered within
> the expected timeframe (can happen).
>
> Usually (from my experience with writing Unix kernel drivers), this is not
> a problem, because the "message" from (in this case) int2 will be picked up
> when we start to service int3, which we _did_ see. So, even though we didnt
> get int2, we were fine.
>
> Now... emulator wakes up again, goes "oi, i messed up, better go send that
> int now" and sends the int. The driver no longer _awaits_ an interrupt
> (because
> we cleared the AttentionNeeded flags when servicing int3), so... we get the
> "stray int" message.
Based on my experience over this weekend, I can definitely agree with
all of the above. It makes perfect sense and goes a long way toward
explaining my problems.
>
> If this logic is correct, it will get worse when loading the host system
> heavily, so latency will occur more often.
I can also vouch for this. I finally gave up on trying to do anything
I/O intensive on the emulated RP disk. Emulator was continuously
crashing.
> On a very fast box (like my quad CPU
> P3/850 Linux box) it should hardly occur.
While this is not a solution most people here are likely to be able to
apply :-) I also have doubts that it will solve the problem. I also
doubt that the problem is as easy as just throwing away the stray interrupt.
bill
--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
bill(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>
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>From "Ian King" <iking(a)killthewabbit.org> Mon Feb 26 17:49:22 2001
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From: "Ian King" <iking(a)killthewabbit.org>
To: <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: [pups] Swap device in V6?
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 23:49:22 -0800
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I'm working with the install image provided by Ken Wellsch, and when I =
execute the 'ps' command I get an error that says "no swap device". I'm =
not particularly concerned about ps itself, but another symptom of =
problems is that I can't compile anything in C; I get an error out of cc =
that says "Fatal error in /lib/c0". Given where that error comes from =
in cc, it appears related. =20
I've combed the docs and the code, and I can't find ANYthing about how =
swap space is assigned or designated. Does anyone have any hints? =
Thanks -- Ian=20
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm working with the install image =
provided by Ken=20
Wellsch, and when I execute the 'ps' command I get an error that says =
"no swap=20
device". I'm not particularly concerned about ps itself, but =
another=20
symptom of problems is that I can't compile anything in C; I get an =
error out of=20
cc that says "Fatal error in /lib/c0". Given where that error =
comes from=20
in cc, it appears related. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've combed the docs and the code, and =
I can't find=20
ANYthing about how swap space is assigned or designated. Does =
anyone have=20
any hints? Thanks -- Ian </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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>From Harti Brandt <brandt(a)fokus.gmd.de> Mon Feb 26 19:31:40 2001
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Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:31:40 +0100 (CET)
From: Harti Brandt <brandt(a)fokus.gmd.de>
To: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
cc: Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu>,
"Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>, <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>,
Hartmut Brandt <brandt(a)fokus.gmd.de>,
Joerg Micheel <joerg(a)begemot.org>
Subject: [pups] Re: Begemot emulator (was: Stray Interupts)
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On Sun, 25 Feb 2001, Greg Lehey wrote:
GL>On Friday, 23 February 2001 at 8:43:41 -0500, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
GL>> On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, Steven M. Schultz wrote:
GL>>> so the machine can be placed on a network. P11's also quite a bit
GL>>> more efficient/fast. Configuration can be puzzling but sample
GL>>> config files are available (from various PUPS folks who run P11).
GL>>
GL>> I would love to us the Begemot emulator. I have the latest version but
GL>> I have been unable to get any of my disk images to work. Can anyone
GL>> tell me if you can use the disk images from the other emulators and if
GL>> so, how?? Do they have to be converted somehow like tapes??
GL>
GL>*sigh* The Begemot emulator has bitrotted a little. I can no longer
GL>get it to work, though admittedly I didn't try very hard the last
GL>time, and it may be something as simple as a corrupted disk image.
GL>But the other thing is that the Begemot ftp site is no longer
GL>accessible, which is somewhat embarrassing, since I host it. I'm
GL>copying J�rg Micheel and Harti Brandt, the Begemot people, and I hope
GL>that we'll get it up again soon. J�rg, Harti, the problem is that I
GL>migrated a system disk, and seem to have lost the connection to the
GL>ftp files. You should find them somewhere on the file systems
GL>/freebie or /freebie/usr, which are the old system disk, still
GL>spinning.
I have done some work on the emulator last autumn and plan to release
a new version Real-Soon-Now(tm). Well, I think I will to a
kill -STOP `cat /var/run/currentwork`
and try to do it in the next couple of days.
Please watch the alt.sys.pdp11 for an anouncement.
Disc images work directly (at least the images from Bob Supnik do).
harti
--
harti brandt, http://www.fokus.gmd.de/research/cc/cats/employees/hartmut.brandt/private
brandt(a)fokus.gmd.de, harti(a)begemot.org
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(envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)
