TUHS January 2001

tuhs@tuhs.org

8 participants
11 discussions

by norman＠nose.cita.utoronto.ca

I've assembled some notes from old manuals and other sources on the formats used for on-disk file systems through the Seventh Edition: http://www.cita.utoronto.ca/~norman/old-unix/old-fs.html Additional notes, comments on style, and whatnot are welcome. (It may be sensible to send anything in the last two categories directly to me, rather than to the whole list.)

2 years, 10 months

[pups] 2.11BSD networking on simulator

by Richard Donkin

I'm running 2.11BSD on the Supnik simulator, and wondering how to get it networked. This sim seems to only support serial lines, so maybe I have to move over to the Begemot simulator - in which case, is it best to use FreeBSD or Linux as the host for the sim? I'm more familiar with Linux but I have FreeBSD running now - the question is what's easier to set up for networking. Does anyone have a working Begemot sim setup with networking, used with 2.11BSD? If so, could you post your config files? The Begemot sim seems a lot more complex to set up than Supnik. Cheers, Richard Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA32905 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:44:03 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> Thu Feb 1 08:42:02 2001 Received: from amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net [195.40.1.45]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA32901 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:43:59 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com) Received: from bigfoot.com (dsl-212-135-223-35.dsl.easynet.co.uk [212.135.223.35]) by amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 372D317941 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:42:24 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <3A7894BA.370723F0(a)bigfoot.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:42:02 +0000 From: Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: PUPS List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] File exchange with Supnik sim Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk I've tried the suggestions for getting files in and out of the Supnik sim, in particular using rl0 mapped to x.tar, and 'tar cvf /dev/rrl0a /etc/hosts'. However, tar complains: 'tar: tape write error: Read-only file system'. The disklabel for rl0 looks like: # /dev/rrl0a: type: old DEC disk: label: flags: bytes/sector: 512 sectors/track: 20 tracks/cylinder: 2 sectors/cylinder: 40 cylinders: 0 rpm: 0 interleave: 0 trackskew: 0 cylinderskew: 0 headswitch: 0 # milliseconds track-to-track seek: 0 # milliseconds drivedata: 0 1 partitions: # size offset fstype [fsize bsize] a: 10240 0 2.11BSD 1024 1024 # (Cyl. 0 - 255) cylinders/unit 0 Warning, revolutions/minute 0 boot block size 0 super block size 0 partition a: extends past end of unit 0 10240 0 Presumably I need to create a valid disklabel, but it would be good to have some advice on what a valid one would look like. I've also tried the same sort of thing with 'tar cvbBf 20 /dev/rmt0 /etc/hosts', and something like a tar file is produced - however, GNU tar on Linux and FreeBSD 4.2 tar can't read this, saying 'this doesn't look like a tar file'. Is there some trick to getting this to work, and am I better off using rl0 or rmt0? Richard Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA33243 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:16:28 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Thu Feb 1 09:14:49 2001 Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (postfix(a)wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA33239 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:16:24 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from grog(a)lemis.com) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 172826AC9E; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:44:49 +1030 (CST) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:44:49 +1030 From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> To: Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> Cc: PUPS List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] Re: 2.11BSD networking on simulator Message-ID: <20010201094448.D70596(a)wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <3A78919C.3D604E23(a)bigfoot.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3A78919C.3D604E23(a)bigfoot.com>; from rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com on Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 10:28:44PM +0000 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk [Format recovered--see http://www.lemis.com/email/email-format.html] Your message contained alternate long and short lines On Wednesday, 31 January 2001 at 22:28:44 +0000, Richard Donkin wrote: > I'm running 2.11BSD on the Supnik simulator, and wondering how to > get it networked. This sim seems to only support serial lines, so > maybe I have to move over to the Begemot simulator - in which case, > is it best to use FreeBSD or Linux as the host for the sim? I'm > more familiar with Linux but I have FreeBSD running now - the > question is what's easier to set up for networking. The Begemot emulator was written on BSD, so you'll probably find it easier to use under FreeBSD. > Does anyone have a working Begemot sim setup with networking, used > with 2.11BSD? If so, could you post your config files? The Begemot > sim seems a lot more complex to set up than Supnik. *sigh* I used to, and it worked well. A number of changes in FreeBSD have rendered the emulator non-functional, and I haven't had time to find out what's wrong. I'll take a look and see if I can see anything obvious, but it might take me a while. Greg -- When replying to this message, please take care not to mutilate the original text. For more information, see http://www.lemis.com/email.html Finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA33329 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:31:29 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Thu Feb 1 09:17:54 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA33322 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:31:25 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f0VNHsd17441 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:17:54 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:17:54 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200101312317.f0VNHsd17441(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD networking on simulator Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> > I'm running 2.11BSD on the Supnik simulator, and wondering how to get it > networked. It can not be done except perhaps with a SL/IP link. The Supnik simulator does not have an emulated ethernet device. > Begemot simulator - in which case, is it best to use FreeBSD or Linux as > the host I use BSD/OS myself, but FreeBSD works very nicely also. I've not tried it with linux. > Does anyone have a working Begemot sim setup with networking, used with > 2.11BSD? If so, Quite a few folks have it running. > could you post your config files? The Begemot sim seems a lot more > complex to set up than Supnik. Yes, it is quite a bit more complex (cryptic) to set up. Here's what I use to run P11 with. If you strip out all of the macro preprocessing stuff the config file is much more readable and not nearly as cryptic as before. Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com ------------------ set clock_rate 60 ctrl rk 017777400 0220 5 4000 end ctrl rl 017774400 0160 4 4000 end ctrl rp 017776700 0254 5 4000 dev 0 ./2.11BSD 1999 dev 1 ./junk 1999 end ctrl kl dev 017777560 060 064 4 tty_net -7 -t 10000 dev 017776500 0300 0304 4 tty_net -7 -t 10001 end ctrl mr 017777520 ./rp.boot end ctrl lp 017777514 0200 4 end ctrl tm 017772520 0224 5 # dev 0 /tmp/foo end ctrl qna 017774440 5 0x08:0x00:0x2b:0x07:0x82:0x6c 0xf8:0x7a qna.rom dev epp_tun tun0 0x08:0x00:0x2b:0x07:0x82:0x6c 0x08:0x00:0x2b:0x07:0x82:0x00 end # The toy clock. # ctrl toy 017777526 end Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA33890 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 12:39:12 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> Thu Feb 1 11:37:29 2001 Received: from arundel.fortyfour.org (138bus2.tampabay.rr.com [24.94.138.2]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA33886 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 12:39:07 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com) Received: from tampabay.rr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arundel.fortyfour.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f111bTR01279; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 20:37:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A78BDD9.995B3F42(a)tampabay.rr.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 20:37:29 -0500 From: Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; NetBSD 1.5.1_ALPHA i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? References: <200101302330.PAA29420(a)chiton.ucsd.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Carl Lowenstein wrote: > > > From wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 14:16 PST 2001 > > > > Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :( > > That's the problem. > > Why, said he wonderingly. Is the 11/34 one of those machines that does > not have a directly addressable PSW at 177776 so it must be done with > MPTS and MFPS instructions? Thats all I can think of immediately. > > ... When I looked last night at the machine assist (mch.s) for Ultrix-11/3.1 source, all I could easily find was consistent with this, contained in the V6 start document: The main difference between an 11/40 and an 11/45 (or 11/70) system is that in the former instruction restart after a segmentation violation caused by overflowing a user stack must be handled by software, while in the latter machines there is hardware help. which in more detail means, if I understand right, there is no SSR2 register in the MMU so the kernel code needs to disassemble the instruction to backup over it for restarting as per above. The Ultrix mch.s file has code that does this (quite a lot) and I noticed a few cases that checked it the cputype is 34. Cheers, -- Ken Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA35763 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 20:11:50 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 1 month

Re: [pups] Re: regarding bsd 4.3 for vax machines documentation

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> wrote: > Check the UNIX Heritage Society at > http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/TUHS for details of 4.3BSD and how you > can get it for the Vax. For VAX 4.3BSD UNIX specifically, check out: http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Quasijarus/ -- Michael Sokolov Public Service Agent International Engineering and Science Task Force 1351 VINE AVE APT 27 Phone: +1-714-738-5409 FULLERTON CA 92833-4291 USA (home office) E-mail: msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA19895 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:26:38 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Tue Jan 30 14:25:17 2001 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19891 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:26:36 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f0U4PIO32651 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:25:18 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200101300425.f0U4PIO32651(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] Re: new VTserver (was DZ-11 driver) In-Reply-To: <200101290215.NAA06982(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au> from John Holden at "Jan 29, 2001 01:15:11 pm" Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:25:17 +1100 (EST) CC: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL68 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by Robin Birch: > Warren, > Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a > tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device. You > could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more > complex boot driver in. If you use the console then that shoud be > universal across all PDP11s. > > Robin Done! See http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver and http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver/vtserver/vtreadme.html for details. At the present I have Ersatz-2.0 running as a PDP-11/34A, one RK05 and just the console. I have my tape server connected to the serial console line, and I'm bringing in an RK05 disk image: Virtual tape server, $Revision: 2.0 $ Running command stty -f /dev/ttyid1 9600 cs8 clocal -crtscts Tape records are: 0 tinyboot 1 copy 2 root.img Opening port /dev/ttyd1 .... Port open E11>show cpu Emulation: PDP-11/34a, FP11A NOASR, NOCCR, NOCDR, NOCHR, NOCMDR, NOCPUERR, NOCSM, NODSPACE, NODUALREGSET, NODESTFIRST, EIS, NOFPBACKOUT, FPP, NOHALT4, NOJMPPLUS2, JMP4, NOKTJ11B, NOMBR, NOMFPT, NOMMTRAPS, MMU, NOMMU22, NOMR, NOMSEA, NOMSER, MXPS, ODD, NOPARCSR, NOPCR, NOPIRQ, PSWIO, NOQBUS, NOSIZE, NOSPL, SR, NOSR1, NOSTACKLIM, NOSUPMODE, NOSYSID, NOTSTSET, UNDOAUTO, NOUMAP Host: Cyrix 486, NPX E11>g 70000 Opened tinyboot rrrrrrrrrrrrrr EOF 40tinyboot from virtual tape server Load tape record: 1 Opened copy rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrcopy Infile: vt(0,0,2) Outfile: rk(0,0,0) Opened root.img rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr 100K sent rrrrrrrrrrrrrrr So no need for DZ-11, but many thanks to Norman, John and others who wrote code for me. I'll probably still try to add DZ-11 support. Cheers, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA19994 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:44:56 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Tue Jan 30 14:43:34 2001 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19990 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:44:55 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f0U4hYh32768 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:43:34 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200101300443.f0U4hYh32768(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:43:34 +1100 (EST) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL68 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Now that I (think I) have got a working system of loading a bootable disk image over a serial line into a PDP-11/34, can someone create a suitable disk image? I'm away until Feb 14th and won't be able to do it. The requestor is Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com>, who says: I've recently acquired a working PDP-11/34, with RK05s. (I also have some Plessey DD 11/80s for it.) My 11/34 is mapped, with 124k available; I also have another memory card with 128k on it, and if I can ever find any documentation on the Plessey memory cards and the memory management switch settings, I may have 252k one of these days. :-) I have only one DL/KL-11, but also a DZ11. He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download onto his real disk. Many thanks all! Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA21488 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:27:54 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> Tue Jan 30 17:55:19 2001 Received: from chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net [195.40.1.44]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21484 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:27:51 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com) Received: from bigfoot.com (dsl-212-135-223-35.dsl.easynet.co.uk [212.135.223.35]) by chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D518F81EE for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 07:54:33 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <3A767367.3B2FDC99(a)bigfoot.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 07:55:19 +0000 From: Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: PUPS List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] 2.11 BSD compilation fails Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi, I have got 2.11 BSD (from the rp_unknown disk) up and working on the Supnik 2.3+BB1 simulator, configured as follows: set cpu 22b set cpu 2048K at rp0 mydisks/2.11BSD/2.11_rp_unknown boot rp While tinkering with the date2.c program posted earlier by Alex Chupakhin, which now runs on 2.11 BSD btw, I discovered the following: - 'cc -o date2 date2.c' works fine, producing a 12K binary - a makefile containing this command fails - the compilation starts but fails silently, producing a 2K binary that is not marked executable. The makefile is: date2: date2.c cc -o date2 -c date2.c - 'make -n | sh' fails in the same way Is this a known problem that will be fixed by patches (none applied yet as the simulator is not networked)? Or do I need to provide more memory? Some other info: # uname -a 2.11BSD whistler-2bsd 2.11BSD 2.11 BSD UNIX #11: Tue Jan 6 16:57:02 MET 1998 root@pdp11.begemot.com:/usr/src/sys/HIPPON PDP11 By the way, if anyone else has 2.11 BSD in unpatched state and wants to set the date to 2001, email me for a copy of the updated date2.c program. Apart from this problem, 2.11BSD is working very nicely - I'm impressed that such a feature-rich Unix can even be run on a PDP-11! Cheers, Richard Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA22856 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 02:29:08 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Wed Jan 31 01:26:10 2001 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA22852 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 02:29:02 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk) Received: from falstaf.demon.co.uk ([158.152.152.109]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14Ncgp-0009DZ-0A; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:27:28 +0000 Message-ID: <NatiWLAS0td6Ewpf(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:26:10 +0000 To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au Cc: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> From: Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Subject: Re: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver References: <RQsFELAVoXd6EwKY(a)ruffnready.co.uk> <200101292137.f0TLb2d29560(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> In-Reply-To: <200101292137.f0TLb2d29560(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.00 U <YSkKJATYm0AxAbv6xwlBrCeVCW> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In message <200101292137.f0TLb2d29560(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>, Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> writes >In article by Robin Birch: >> Warren, >> Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a >> tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device. You >> could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more >> complex boot driver in. If you use the console then that shoud be >> universal across all PDP11s. >> >> Robin > >I had thought of that. I'm not sure I want to write a terminal emulator :) >I guess I should ask those people with tapeless PDP-11s. > >If you had a method of booting and installing disk images over a serial >line, would you be happy with a serial line to a `tape server' separate >to your console line, or would you rather have the two combined? > > Warren Well, the terminal emulator doesn't have to be very sophisticated as once the thing was running properly then you would use what ever the PC system had installed. The "two separate" would probably be easier to create but it occurs to me that many PCs only have one serial line and the only serial line that is common to all 11s is the console therefore only needing a single driver. Robin ____________________________________________________________________ Robin Birch robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD Old computers and radios always welcome Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA23022 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 02:57:09 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> Tue Jan 30 17:19:44 2001 Received: from mail3.microsoft.com (mail3.microsoft.com [131.107.3.123]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA23018 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 02:57:03 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from iking(a)microsoft.com) Received: from 157.54.9.100 by mail3.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:18:30 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Received: by inet-imc-03.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <D8RC1PP1>; Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:41 -0800 Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB0D(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> To: "'wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au'" <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au>, PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both ways. (I even have some original shipping boxes.) BTW, the mail Warren cites below was sent before I had really dug into my 11/34's manuals; I have 124kW of MOS memory in the machine, and RSX-11M can use it all in a "mapped" configuration. Also, if I am going to transfer a disk image, I have another DL-11 I am going to install to make use of Warren's VTServer program. TIA -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au] Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Now that I (think I) have got a working system of loading a bootable disk image over a serial line into a PDP-11/34, can someone create a suitable disk image? I'm away until Feb 14th and won't be able to do it. The requestor is Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com>, who says: I've recently acquired a working PDP-11/34, with RK05s. (I also have some Plessey DD 11/80s for it.) My 11/34 is mapped, with 124k available; I also have another memory card with 128k on it, and if I can ever find any documentation on the Plessey memory cards and the memory management switch settings, I may have 252k one of these days. :-) I have only one DL/KL-11, but also a DZ11. He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download onto his real disk. Many thanks all! Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA23100 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 03:05:55 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Mark Green <mark(a)cs.ualberta.ca> Wed Jan 31 02:04:16 2001 Received: from scapa.cs.ualberta.ca (root(a)scapa.cs.ualberta.ca [129.128.4.44]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA23096 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 03:05:51 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from mark(a)cs.ualberta.ca) Received: (from localhost user: 'mark' uid#150 fake: goodfare.cs.ualberta.ca) by scapa.cs.ualberta.ca id <S433530AbRA3QEQ>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:04:16 -0700 Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11 BSD compilation fails In-Reply-To: <3A767367.3B2FDC99(a)bigfoot.com> from Richard Donkin at "Jan 30, 2001 07:55:19 am" From: Mark Green <mark(a)cs.ualberta.ca> To: Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:04:16 -0700 (MST) CC: PUPS List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL66 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010130160418Z433530-3339+182(a)scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > > While tinkering with the date2.c program posted earlier by Alex > Chupakhin, which now runs on 2.11 BSD btw, I discovered the following: > > - 'cc -o date2 date2.c' works fine, producing a 12K binary > > - a makefile containing this command fails - the compilation starts but > fails silently, producing a 2K binary that is not marked executable. > The makefile is: > > date2: date2.c > cc -o date2 -c date2.c Remove the -c flag, it tells the compiler to only compile the program and not produce an executable. > > - 'make -n | sh' fails in the same way > -- Dr. Mark Green mark(a)cs.ualberta.ca McCalla Professor (780) 492-4584 Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX) University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA23775 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 05:22:29 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Wed Jan 31 04:20:58 2001 Received: from chiton.ucsd.edu (chiton.ucsd.edu [192.135.238.128]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA23771 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 05:22:25 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu) Received: (from cdl@localhost) by chiton.ucsd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA24283 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:20:58 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:20:58 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Message-Id: <200101301820.KAA24283(a)chiton.ucsd.edu> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. carl carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu > From owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 08:17 PST 2001 > From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> > To: "'wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au'" <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au>, > PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> > Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800 > > In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a > bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both ways. > (I even have some original shipping boxes.) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au] > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM > To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society > Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > > He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download > onto his real disk. > > Many thanks all! > > Warren > Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA23853 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 05:31:48 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> Wed Jan 31 04:30:14 2001 Received: from arundel.fortyfour.org (138bus2.tampabay.rr.com [24.94.138.2]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA23848 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 05:31:44 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com) Received: from tampabay.rr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arundel.fortyfour.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0UIUER28642; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:30:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A770836.5E42CF2B(a)tampabay.rr.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:30:14 -0500 From: Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; NetBSD 1.5.1_ALPHA i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? References: <200101301820.KAA24283(a)chiton.ucsd.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk I'll second that. The V6 tape image I provided to PUPS has the usual boot blocks at the start of the tape then as I recall three RJ05 disk images. Long long ago I think I got folks interested in using emulators like Bob Supnik's by using the first tape disk image as the "disk" image for "sim" and booted V6... but it has been more than 6 years now since I did that and I may be rusty on details. -- Ken Carl Lowenstein wrote: > > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable > RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. > > carl > > carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego > {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu > clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu > > > From owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 08:17 PST 2001 > > From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> > > To: "'wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au'" <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au>, > > PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> > > Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800 > > > > In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a > > bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both ways. > > (I even have some original shipping boxes.) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au] > > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM > > To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society > > Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > > > > > He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download > > onto his real disk. > > > > Many thanks all! > > > > Warren > >

24 years, 1 month

Re: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

I don't have a PDP-11, but I have done work in various ways with remote-device installs. If it were me I would prefer to be able to use a device distinct from the console, for several reasons: - a separate device might have an input silo (e.g. the DZ11 does); the console usually doesn't. A silo offers a little more robustness and may allow greater speeds. - it is better to keep the console available as a place for error messages to show up when things go wrong. - things are going to go wrong in any case, and I am going to have to try booting several times. If I have to get a serial-line switch or move cables back and forth, that is another thing that can go wrong, and another thing I can screw up. On the other hand, if I had the problem I would likely be happy to get any code that would help, whichever way it worked. So I also favour letting the implementor choose. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA18661 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:07:27 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> Tue Jan 30 09:19:45 2001 Received: from mail3.microsoft.com (mail3.microsoft.com [131.107.3.123]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA18657 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:07:23 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from iking(a)microsoft.com) Received: from 157.54.9.100 by mail3.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:18:44 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Received: by inet-imc-03.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <D8RCCVFR>; Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:19:55 -0800 Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB07(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> To: "'norman(a)nose.cs.utoronto.ca'" <norman(a)nose.cs.utoronto.ca>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: RE: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:19:45 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk That's why I've inquired of Warren about using the DZ-11 as the pseudo-device. I also have a console input (DL-11, from memory). The input silo is potentially a benefit, but it's not a panacea by any means -- it has to be handled pretty carefully. -- isk -----Original Message----- From: norman(a)nose.cs.utoronto.ca [mailto:norman@nose.cs.utoronto.ca] Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 2:13 PM To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver I don't have a PDP-11, but I have done work in various ways with remote-device installs. If it were me I would prefer to be able to use a device distinct from the console, for several reasons: - a separate device might have an input silo (e.g. the DZ11 does); the console usually doesn't. A silo offers a little more robustness and may allow greater speeds. - it is better to keep the console available as a place for error messages to show up when things go wrong. - things are going to go wrong in any case, and I am going to have to try booting several times. If I have to get a serial-line switch or move cables back and forth, that is another thing that can go wrong, and another thing I can screw up. On the other hand, if I had the problem I would likely be happy to get any code that would help, whichever way it worked. So I also favour letting the implementor choose. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA19302 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:59:02 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From norman(a)nose.cs.utoronto.ca [mailto:norman@nose.cs.utoronto.ca] Tue Jan 30 11:56:50 2001 Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (postfix(a)wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19298 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:58:46 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from grog(a)lemis.com) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 1488F6AC9D; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:26:50 +1030 (CST) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:26:50 +1030 From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> To: nanduri shankar <n_shankar_2001(a)yahoo.com> Cc: freebsd-doc(a)freebsd.org, UNIX Heritage Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: [pups] Re: regarding bsd 4.3 for vax machines documentation Message-ID: <20010130122650.D48490(a)wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20010129184128.50518.qmail(a)web9007.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010129184128.50518.qmail(a)web9007.mail.yahoo.com>; from n_shankar_2001(a)yahoo.com on Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 10:41:28AM -0800 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Monday, 29 January 2001 at 10:41:28 -0800, nanduri shankar wrote: > hello sir/madam, > i want to know the information about > the bsd 4.3 for vax machines . > let u provide me documentation regarding this topic. > iam waiting for your earliest reply. The FreeBSD documentation project doesn't deal with 4.3BSD, nor with Vaxen. Check the UNIX Heritage Society at http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/TUHS for details of 4.3BSD and how you can get it for the Vax. Greg -- Finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA19420 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:24:19 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 1 month

Re: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver

by Warren Toomey

In article by Robin Birch: > Warren, > Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a > tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device. You > could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more > complex boot driver in. If you use the console then that shoud be > universal across all PDP11s. > > Robin I had thought of that. I'm not sure I want to write a terminal emulator :) I guess I should ask those people with tapeless PDP-11s. If you had a method of booting and installing disk images over a serial line, would you be happy with a serial line to a `tape server' separate to your console line, or would you rather have the two combined? Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA18242 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:14:39 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 1 month

RE: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver

by Ian King

Warren, I have the DZ-11 docs; I'll scan the relevant sections and mail it to you. -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au] Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 5:25 PM To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver Hi all, I'm working on a new version of my Vtserver, which allows a PDP-11 with no tape drive to boot from a Unix/Linux server (via serial cable) and install a UNIX. See ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver At present I'm working on a new version which uses the 2.11BSD boot code so as to support more disk drives. The work in progress is at: http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver. At present it's not usable unless you have a PDP-11/45. I've got a potential user with an 11/34, two RK05s and a DZ-11. I can't find any details of DZ-11 here in my peripherals handbooks, and the 2.11 kernel drivers are a bit too complicated to read. My existing KL-11 driver is below. Can someone come up with a standalone equivalent for a DZ-11, or point me at some docs? I'll be away from 1st to 14th Feb, so there may be some delays in responding. Thanks all, Warren struct vtdevice { int rcsr,rbuf; int tcsr,tbuf; }; #define NVT 2 struct vtdevice *VTcsr[NVT + 1] = { (struct vtdevice *)0176500, /* We use VTcsr[0] unit 1 */ (struct vtdevice *)0, (struct vtdevice *)-1 }; /* Get a character, or timeout and return with hitim zero */ char vtgetc() { register c; VTcsr[0]->rcsr = 1; hitim=3; lotim=65535; while ((VTcsr[0]->rcsr&0200)==0) { lotim--; if (lotim==0) hitim--; if (hitim==0) { putchar('t'); return(0); } } c = VTcsr[0]->rbuf; return(c); } vtputc(c) register c; { register s; while((VTcsr[0]->tcsr&0200) == 0) ; s = VTcsr[0]->tcsr; VTcsr[0]->tcsr = 0; VTcsr[0]->tbuf = c; VTcsr[0]->tcsr = s; } Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA24991 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:17:28 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Wed Jan 31 08:13:30 2001 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24987 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:17:26 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f0UMDUQ35508; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:13:30 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200101302213.f0UMDUQ35508(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? In-Reply-To: <200101301820.KAA24283(a)chiton.ucsd.edu> from Carl Lowenstein at "Jan 30, 2001 10:20:58 am" To: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:13:30 +1100 (EST) CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL68 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by Carl Lowenstein: > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable > RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. > > carl Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :( That's the problem. Cheers, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25322 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:28:22 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> Wed Jan 31 08:38:15 2001 Received: from mail3.microsoft.com (mail3.microsoft.com [131.107.3.123]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA25314 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:28:18 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from iking(a)microsoft.com) Received: from 157.54.9.100 by mail3.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:48:28 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Received: by inet-imc-03.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <D8RC2W0X>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:38:29 -0800 Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB13(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> To: "'Ken Wellsch'" <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com>, Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:38:15 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it wouldn't unzip it. (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.) I've also tried the "Dennis" images, which are supposedly straight RK05 images; E11 won't boot 'em. One issue on which I'm not clear: where is the boot address? Stuff at loc 0 doesn't look like boot instructions. If I could get an image to run in an emulator (as I mentioned, I'm running E11 from DBit), I'd write some cheesy little loader to bring it down the serial line (I already have it sketched out); but until I can at least get one to boot in the emulator, I'm reluctant to spend the hours (at 9600 baud) to spray it onto a disk. <sigh> Any suggestions you may have would be greatly appreciated. -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 10:30 AM To: Carl Lowenstein Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? I'll second that. The V6 tape image I provided to PUPS has the usual boot blocks at the start of the tape then as I recall three RJ05 disk images. Long long ago I think I got folks interested in using emulators like Bob Supnik's by using the first tape disk image as the "disk" image for "sim" and booted V6... but it has been more than 6 years now since I did that and I may be rusty on details. -- Ken Carl Lowenstein wrote: > > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable > RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. > > carl > > carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego > {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu > clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu > > > From owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 08:17 PST 2001 > > From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> > > To: "'wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au'" <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au>, > > PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> > > Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800 > > > > In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a > > bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both ways. > > (I even have some original shipping boxes.) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au] > > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM > > To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society > > Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > > > > > He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download > > onto his real disk. > > > > Many thanks all! > > > > Warren > > Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25337 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:29:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com] Wed Jan 31 09:27:56 2001 Received: from arundel.fortyfour.org (138bus2.tampabay.rr.com [24.94.138.2]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25333 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:29:30 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com) Received: from tampabay.rr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arundel.fortyfour.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0UNRuR29214; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:27:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A774DFC.8A3260E8(a)tampabay.rr.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:27:56 -0500 From: Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; NetBSD 1.5.1_ALPHA i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? References: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB13(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi Ian, Indeed, looks like there has been some bit rot on the archive... sigh. Luckily I am a pack rat and have copies of my Waterloo days data. The images are all clean there. Curiously enough I even found the directory where I ran that simulation (circa Oct/94 I see). I just rebuilt the code there and ran it on my NetBSD/i386 system and it boots V6 just fine. In case you don't read minds, after doing the 'attach ...' then 'boot rk0' the intuitive V6 boot prompt '@' is where you type 'rkunix' for example B^) Almost instantly I had a 'login:' prompt, and the image is off the tape so there is no root password set... Don't forget to type 'date' when logged in ... it is a hoot to see B^) Oh heck, never thought to actually try to set the date, post 2000... maybe better to let it live back in 1975... I've tar/gzip'ed the bundle. Do you want me to try and UUencode it and mail it to you? It is nearly 1 Mbyte in binary form... Oh yeah, as Warren mentioned, stock V6 does not run on a '34. I think it ran on a '40. I know it can run on a '34 because in 1980 I started using UNIX, V6 running on a '34 B^) Cheers, -- Ken Ian King wrote: > > Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it > wouldn't unzip it. (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a > transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.) I've also tried the > "Dennis" images, which are supposedly straight RK05 images; E11 won't boot > 'em. One issue on which I'm not clear: where is the boot address? Stuff at > loc 0 doesn't look like boot instructions. > > If I could get an image to run in an emulator (as I mentioned, I'm running > E11 from DBit), I'd write some cheesy little loader to bring it down the > serial line (I already have it sketched out); but until I can at least get > one to boot in the emulator, I'm reluctant to spend the hours (at 9600 baud) > to spray it onto a disk. <sigh> > > Any suggestions you may have would be greatly appreciated. -- Ian Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25365 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:32:27 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Wed Jan 31 09:30:55 2001 Received: from chiton.ucsd.edu (chiton.ucsd.edu [192.135.238.128]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25361 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:32:23 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu) Received: (from cdl@localhost) by chiton.ucsd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA29420; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:30:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:30:55 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Message-Id: <200101302330.PAA29420(a)chiton.ucsd.edu> To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > From wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 14:16 PST 2001 > From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> > Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > To: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> > Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:13:30 +1100 (EST) > CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > In article by Carl Lowenstein: > > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major > > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable > > RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. > > > > carl > > Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :( > That's the problem. > > Cheers, > Warren Why, said he wonderingly. Is the 11/34 one of those machines that does not have a directly addressable PSW at 177776 so it must be done with MPTS and MFPS instructions? Thats all I can think of immediately. Pulling out my handy PDP-11 architecture handbook, I find this to be so. There are some other differences between 11/34 and 11/40-45 but this one would be a real show-stopper. The modifications to 6th Ed. Unix to take care of this would be concentrated in the save/raise/lower processor priority routines. Just offhand I don't think one could make a zero-length binary patch that would work on the 11/34 and remain 11/40-45 compatible. I guess I will look at locore.s tonight when I get home. That must be the place where such things happen. I wonder what the RT-11 guys did when they had the same problem. I seem to remember something involving creative use of stack pushes and RTI instructions to set the processor priority. carl Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25390 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:35:01 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> Wed Jan 31 09:33:02 2001 Received: from chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net [195.40.1.44]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25383 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:34:57 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com) Received: from bigfoot.com (dsl-212-135-223-35.dsl.easynet.co.uk [212.135.223.35]) by chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45018F8357; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:32:11 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <3A774F2E.46106B82(a)bigfoot.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:33:02 +0000 From: Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Green <mark(a)cs.ualberta.ca> Cc: PUPS List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11 BSD compilation fails References: <20010130160418Z433530-3339+182(a)scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Mark Green wrote: > > > > > While tinkering with the date2.c program posted earlier by Alex > > Chupakhin, which now runs on 2.11 BSD btw, I discovered the following: > > > > - 'cc -o date2 date2.c' works fine, producing a 12K binary > > > > - a makefile containing this command fails - the compilation starts but > > fails silently, producing a 2K binary that is not marked executable. > > The makefile is: > > > > date2: date2.c > > cc -o date2 -c date2.c > Remove the -c flag, it tells the compiler to only compile the program > and not produce an executable. Ooops... I must have been up too late when I came up with that one. Thanks Richard Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA26019 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 12:46:59 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> Wed Jan 31 11:45:20 2001 Received: from mailhost.cs.uofs.edu (mailhost.cs.uofs.edu [134.198.169.1]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26015 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 12:46:54 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from bill(a)cs.uofs.edu) Received: from triangle.cs.uofs.edu (IDENT:root@triangle.cs.uofs.edu [134.198.172.101]) by mailhost.cs.uofs.edu (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id UAA37178 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 20:45:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (bill@localhost) by triangle.cs.uofs.edu (8.9.3/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA03841 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 20:45:24 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: triangle.cs.uofs.edu: bill owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 20:45:20 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? In-Reply-To: <3A774DFC.8A3260E8(a)tampabay.rr.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10101302039390.3188-100000(a)triangle.cs.uofs.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Tue, 30 Jan 2001, Ken Wellsch wrote: > Don't forget to type 'date' when logged in ... it is a hoot to see B^) > > Oh heck, never thought to actually try to set the date, post 2000... > maybe better to let it live back in 1975... > I assume it is just like Ultrix-11 was, soooooo Here's a quick way to get the date right until you get a chance to install a fixed "date" command. Yes, it is only the date command that is not Y2K ready. First: Set the date to 9912312359 Second: wait one minute. It is now 1 Jan 2000. Third: Set the date to 12312359 Fourth: wait one minute. It is now 1 Jan 2001. Fifth: Set the month, day, hour and minute to the current time. Voila. Primitive, but it works. I guess I could try building the GNU date command on Ultrix-11 or maybe just get the sources from FreeBSD. All the best. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h> Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA27811 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 18:07:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> Wed Jan 31 16:58:53 2001 Received: from mail3.microsoft.com (mail3.microsoft.com [131.107.3.123]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA27807 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 18:07:29 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from iking(a)microsoft.com) Received: from 157.54.9.100 by mail3.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:03:00 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Received: by inet-imc-03.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <D0V9B1YG>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:59:19 -0800 Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB1A(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> To: "'Carl Lowenstein'" <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu>, wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:58:53 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Again, I'd be glad to do things like this, if I could get an image to run on an emulator -- that's been a goal. I've tried various 'processors' (in emulation), but not been successful at booting the Unix kernel. Can anyone say, "I booted image X on emulator Y and had a successfully running Unix"? If so, please please please share your experience -- I haven't been able to boot anything out of the PUPS archive on the E11 emulator (held out by some to be the best). And, if/when I have success, I promise to share a field report. :-) -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Carl Lowenstein [mailto:cdl@mpl.ucsd.edu] Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 3:31 PM To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > From wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 14:16 PST 2001 > From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> > Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > To: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> > Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:13:30 +1100 (EST) > CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > In article by Carl Lowenstein: > > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major > > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable > > RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. > > > > carl > > Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :( > That's the problem. > > Cheers, > Warren Why, said he wonderingly. Is the 11/34 one of those machines that does not have a directly addressable PSW at 177776 so it must be done with MPTS and MFPS instructions? Thats all I can think of immediately. Pulling out my handy PDP-11 architecture handbook, I find this to be so. There are some other differences between 11/34 and 11/40-45 but this one would be a real show-stopper. The modifications to 6th Ed. Unix to take care of this would be concentrated in the save/raise/lower processor priority routines. Just offhand I don't think one could make a zero-length binary patch that would work on the 11/34 and remain 11/40-45 compatible. I guess I will look at locore.s tonight when I get home. That must be the place where such things happen. I wonder what the RT-11 guys did when they had the same problem. I seem to remember something involving creative use of stack pushes and RTI instructions to set the processor priority. carl Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA27852 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 18:13:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> Wed Jan 31 17:05:55 2001 Received: from mail3.microsoft.com (mail3.microsoft.com [131.107.3.123]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA27848 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 18:13:30 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from iking(a)microsoft.com) Received: from 157.54.9.100 by mail3.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:04:36 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Received: by inet-imc-03.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <D0V9BGQ8>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:05:48 -0800 Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB1C(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> To: "'Ken Wellsch'" <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:05:55 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Ken, if you send it to my personal email account, there's no size restriction (I run the mail server); it's iking(a)killthewabbit.org. I would greatly appreciate your sending it to me. BTW, I've been using 1977 (the year I graduated fron high school) on my PDP-11 under RSX-11; some tools won't accept the "01" year. :-) Cheers -- isk PS: I've hired a lot of Waterloo folks -- smart buggers, the lot of them. :-) -----Original Message----- From: Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 3:28 PM To: Ian King Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Hi Ian, Indeed, looks like there has been some bit rot on the archive... sigh. Luckily I am a pack rat and have copies of my Waterloo days data. The images are all clean there. Curiously enough I even found the directory where I ran that simulation (circa Oct/94 I see). I just rebuilt the code there and ran it on my NetBSD/i386 system and it boots V6 just fine. In case you don't read minds, after doing the 'attach ...' then 'boot rk0' the intuitive V6 boot prompt '@' is where you type 'rkunix' for example B^) Almost instantly I had a 'login:' prompt, and the image is off the tape so there is no root password set... Don't forget to type 'date' when logged in ... it is a hoot to see B^) Oh heck, never thought to actually try to set the date, post 2000... maybe better to let it live back in 1975... I've tar/gzip'ed the bundle. Do you want me to try and UUencode it and mail it to you? It is nearly 1 Mbyte in binary form... Oh yeah, as Warren mentioned, stock V6 does not run on a '34. I think it ran on a '40. I know it can run on a '34 because in 1980 I started using UNIX, V6 running on a '34 B^) Cheers, -- Ken Ian King wrote: > > Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it > wouldn't unzip it. (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a > transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.) I've also tried the > "Dennis" images, which are supposedly straight RK05 images; E11 won't boot > 'em. One issue on which I'm not clear: where is the boot address? Stuff at > loc 0 doesn't look like boot instructions. > > If I could get an image to run in an emulator (as I mentioned, I'm running > E11 from DBit), I'd write some cheesy little loader to bring it down the > serial line (I already have it sketched out); but until I can at least get > one to boot in the emulator, I'm reluctant to spend the hours (at 9600 baud) > to spray it onto a disk. <sigh> > > Any suggestions you may have would be greatly appreciated. -- Ian Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA29613 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 00:21:49 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com] Wed Jan 31 23:20:06 2001 Received: from arundel.fortyfour.org (138bus2.tampabay.rr.com [24.94.138.2]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29604 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 00:21:43 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com) Received: from tampabay.rr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arundel.fortyfour.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0VDK7R00577 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:20:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A781106.F7302A5A(a)tampabay.rr.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:20:06 -0500 From: Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; NetBSD 1.5.1_ALPHA i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? References: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB13(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Ian King wrote: > > Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it > wouldn't unzip it. (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a > transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.) So going over all the things I can easily do data integrity checks on, I've run 'gzip -tv' on all the GZip'ed things and found three that are apparently damaged: gzip: ./PDP-11/Distributions/dec/Ultrix-3.1/ultrix-3.1-bootape.tar.gz: invalid compressed data--crc error gzip: ./PDP-11/Distributions/research/Ken_Wellsch_v6/v6.tape.gz: invalid compressed data--crc error gzip: ./PDP-11/Distributions/unsw/90/record0.gz: invalid compressed data--crc error I can't comment on the *.Z compressed archives as they do not do any crc. I will have to peruse my stack of archive CD's made at various stages of the archive to see if I have the other two (I have a good 'v6.tape.gz' file). I did not try and run the MD5 list yet. But this is an example of why I had been pushing for the use of MD5 for all items in the archive... B^) -- Ken Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA30614 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 03:08:48 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> Thu Feb 1 02:07:09 2001 Received: from arundel.fortyfour.org (138bus2.tampabay.rr.com [24.94.138.2]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA30610 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 03:08:43 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com) Received: from tampabay.rr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arundel.fortyfour.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0VG79R00768; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:07:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A78382D.37188B15(a)tampabay.rr.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:07:09 -0500 From: Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; NetBSD 1.5.1_ALPHA i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10101302039390.3188-100000(a)triangle.cs.uofs.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > On Tue, 30 Jan 2001, Ken Wellsch wrote: > > > Don't forget to type 'date' when logged in ... it is a hoot to see B^) > > > > Oh heck, never thought to actually try to set the date, post 2000... > > maybe better to let it live back in 1975... > > I assume it is just like Ultrix-11 was, soooooo > Here's a quick way to get the date right until you get a chance to > install a fixed "date" command. Yes, it is only the date command > that is not Y2K ready. No, V6 predates Ultrix-11 by just a bit I believe. The date setting format on V6 appears to be '1231245999', that is two digits for: month, day, hour, minute, year. A trailing 'p' means the hours are 12 based (and it is PM), otherwise 24 based. I can confirm as I expected that setting 0131110301 puts me at 1970 B^) No big deal. I can see in the 'date' source what it is doing... Thanks for the 'put it into the year 2001' method! -- Ken

24 years, 1 month

[pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver

by Warren Toomey

Hi all, I'm working on a new version of my Vtserver, which allows a PDP-11 with no tape drive to boot from a Unix/Linux server (via serial cable) and install a UNIX. See ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver At present I'm working on a new version which uses the 2.11BSD boot code so as to support more disk drives. The work in progress is at: http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver. At present it's not usable unless you have a PDP-11/45. I've got a potential user with an 11/34, two RK05s and a DZ-11. I can't find any details of DZ-11 here in my peripherals handbooks, and the 2.11 kernel drivers are a bit too complicated to read. My existing KL-11 driver is below. Can someone come up with a standalone equivalent for a DZ-11, or point me at some docs? I'll be away from 1st to 14th Feb, so there may be some delays in responding. Thanks all, Warren struct vtdevice { int rcsr,rbuf; int tcsr,tbuf; }; #define NVT 2 struct vtdevice *VTcsr[NVT + 1] = { (struct vtdevice *)0176500, /* We use VTcsr[0] unit 1 */ (struct vtdevice *)0, (struct vtdevice *)-1 }; /* Get a character, or timeout and return with hitim zero */ char vtgetc() { register c; VTcsr[0]->rcsr = 1; hitim=3; lotim=65535; while ((VTcsr[0]->rcsr&0200)==0) { lotim--; if (lotim==0) hitim--; if (hitim==0) { putchar('t'); return(0); } } c = VTcsr[0]->rbuf; return(c); } vtputc(c) register c; { register s; while((VTcsr[0]->tcsr&0200) == 0) ; s = VTcsr[0]->tcsr; VTcsr[0]->tcsr = 0; VTcsr[0]->tbuf = c; VTcsr[0]->tcsr = s; } Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA15283 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 01:14:40 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Tue Jan 30 00:11:33 2001 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA15279 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 01:14:36 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk) Received: from falstaf.demon.co.uk ([158.152.152.109]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14NF3N-0006Ms-0A; Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:13:10 +0000 Message-ID: <RQsFELAVoXd6EwKY(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:11:33 +0000 To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au Cc: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> From: Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Subject: Re: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver References: <200101290124.f0T1Ois26299(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> In-Reply-To: <200101290124.f0T1Ois26299(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.00 U <YSkKJATYm0AxAbv6xwlBrCeVCW> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Warren, Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device. You could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more complex boot driver in. If you use the console then that shoud be universal across all PDP11s. Robin In message <200101290124.f0T1Ois26299(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>, Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> writes >Hi all, > I'm working on a new version of my Vtserver, which allows a PDP-11 >with no tape drive to boot from a Unix/Linux server (via serial cable) and >install a UNIX. See ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver > >At present I'm working on a new version which uses the 2.11BSD boot code >so as to support more disk drives. The work in progress is at: >http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver. At present it's not usable >unless you have a PDP-11/45. > >I've got a potential user with an 11/34, two RK05s and a DZ-11. I can't >find any details of DZ-11 here in my peripherals handbooks, and the 2.11 >kernel drivers are a bit too complicated to read. > >My existing KL-11 driver is below. Can someone come up with a standalone >equivalent for a DZ-11, or point me at some docs? > >I'll be away from 1st to 14th Feb, so there may be some delays in >responding. > >Thanks all, > Warren > > >struct vtdevice { > int rcsr,rbuf; > int tcsr,tbuf; >}; > >#define NVT 2 >struct vtdevice *VTcsr[NVT + 1] = { > (struct vtdevice *)0176500, /* We use VTcsr[0] unit 1 */ > (struct vtdevice *)0, > (struct vtdevice *)-1 >}; > >/* Get a character, or timeout and return with hitim zero */ >char vtgetc() >{ > register c; > > VTcsr[0]->rcsr = 1; hitim=3; lotim=65535; > > while ((VTcsr[0]->rcsr&0200)==0) { > lotim--; > if (lotim==0) hitim--; > if (hitim==0) { putchar('t'); return(0); } > } > c = VTcsr[0]->rbuf; return(c); >} > >vtputc(c) >register c; >{ > register s; > > while((VTcsr[0]->tcsr&0200) == 0) ; > s = VTcsr[0]->tcsr; > VTcsr[0]->tcsr = 0; VTcsr[0]->tbuf = c; VTcsr[0]->tcsr = s; >} ____________________________________________________________________ Robin Birch robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD Old computers and radios always welcome

24 years, 1 month

[pups] Re: Ultrix-11 Latest News

by bill＠cs.scranton.edu

[This is a courtesy copy of a message which was also posted to the newsgroup(s) shown in the header.] In article <944vup$3e6$1(a)news.IAEhv.nl>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems(a)iae.nl> writes: |> Bill, |> |> tried to telnet but no joy |> |> Bill Gunshannon heeft geschreven in bericht |> <944t6p$1o3d$1(a)info.cs.uofs.edu>... |> >Ok, here it is. An 11/23+ running Ultrix-11 3.1, available on the |> >Net. |> > |> >telnet to 134.198.175.226 |> >login as guest |> >password is ultrix11 Well, the bad news it it appears I forgot that at one time no the distnat past TTL was set to some very low number. If you are more than a couple hops away from the University of Scranton you won't be able to get in yet. However, good news on two fronts. I have put up the sources and if I have the time I will try to find the offending bit this weekend. (Anybody who remembers fixing this in any Ultrix-11 or Ultrix-32 when it happened originaly feel free to save me the trouble of searching through the source.) the other good news is I may be acquiring an 11/93 shortly. If I do and it actually still works (one never knows inthese acquisitions) I will probably be putting Ultrix-11 on it and building a Split I&D system. That will then become the system I will put on the Net to play with. Hsve a nice weekend, all. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>

24 years, 2 months

[pups] Ultrix-11 Latest News

by Bill Gunshannon

It was pointed out to me that I was remiss in not making this announcement here as well as on USENET. Mea culpa, mea culpa. ------- Ok, here it is. An 11/23+ running Ultrix-11 3.1, available on the Net. telnet to 134.198.175.226 login as guest password is ultrix11 Don't expect much. As I said, it's only an 11/23+. It has 3M of memory and an RA81 disk. Things like ftp "run", but they don't "work". Look to be lack of buffer space, but without any documentation I have not found out how to tune it any more than it is now. Of course, if I ever get an 11/73 running I could build a split I&D system which should be considerably better. Please don't try to crash it. It is likely to do that all by itself anyway and you would just keep others from trying it out. No, it's not running any critical applications. If you want to move some code over to try the compiler or something, try "gkermit". But remember, it won;t stream and it needs real small packets. I await any comments and am still hoping someone will find a box of Ultrix-11 docs sitting in a closet somewhere that I will gladly pay to ship here. All the best. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>

24 years, 2 months

[pups] Stupid question..

by Martijn van Buul

Hey. I'm playing around with a /53 running 2.11BSD, trying to port some software, and I have a (probably stupid) problem: environ. When I write a simple program like #include <stdio.h> extern char **environ; void main(argc, argv) int argc; char **argv; { printf("Hello world!"); environ=environ; } and compile & link it using cc ("cc -o test test.c"), things go fine, however if I link things manually ("cc -c test.c ; ld -o test test.o -lc") I get an unresolved _environ. By some experimentation, I noticed that including /lib/crt0.o in the linker helps to some extent - however, the binary generated by cc works like a charm, while the manually linked version quits with a bus error. Any ideas? -- Martijn van Buul - Pino(a)dohd.org - http://www.stack.nl/~martijnb/ Geek code: G-- - Visit OuterSpace: mud.stack.nl 3333 Kees J. Bot: The sum of CPU power and user brain power is a constant. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA08435 for pups-liszt; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:22:57 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Tue Jan 16 08:15:45 2001 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08430 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:22:55 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f0FMTm309828 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:29:48 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08355 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:17:00 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f0FMFjJ26746 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:15:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:15:45 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200101152215.f0FMFjJ26746(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Stupid question.. Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> > > however if I link things manually ("cc -c test.c ; ld -o test test.o -lc") > I get an unresolved _environ. By some experimentation, I noticed that > including /lib/crt0.o in the linker helps to some extent - however, > the binary generated by cc works like a charm, while the manually > linked version quits with a bus error. Any ideas? Try placing /lib/crt0.o before the test.o: ld -o test /lib/crt0.o test.o -lc on another note it's usually not a good idea to call a program 'test' because when you are least expecting it you will end up running /bin/test and wonder what is wrong. Steven

24 years, 2 months

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TUHS January 2001