TUHS January 1999

tuhs@tuhs.org

12 participants
54 discussions

by mxs46＠k2.scl.cwru.edu

Kirk McKusick <mckusick(a)McKusick.COM> wrote: > I applaud your desire not to break old 4.2/4.3 machines. > I would be very resistant to losing support for a popular > machine like the 11/750. However, I think that losing support > for the 11/730 would be acceptable. You are not the first person I hear this from, and I wouldn't completely disagree. However, it always pains me very much when a system really ought to run on a machine and has all the necessary ingredients, but fails because of some tiny nit. This is exactly the case here. The CPU is supported, the console storage device is supported, all bootstrap scripts are already written, even the IDC is supported, but the standalone programs refuse to load because of a ucode botch! Now, I did look more carefully, and the boot.730 program does fit into 12.5 KB after all in 4.2 and 4.3 (copy.730 fits in 4.2 but not in 4.3, and format.730 doesn't fit even in 4.2). So I guess it would be possible after all to massage up the Makefile and the ifdefing in the sources to make the 4.3-Quasijarus standalone system build a small boot.730. However, the objections to this approach are: 1. Instead of tidying up the standalone system, this would make it an even worse mess. 2. In future Quasijarus releases I plan to retire the current standalone drivers for U/Q and BI MSCP and make the standalone system call DEC's own VMB for I/O from/to all MSCP devices, making it possible to support MSCP on more than just U/Q and BI. However, this means that all big VAX users with MSCP disks will now need a copy of DEC's VMB.EXE in addition to UNIX's native boot code. It will also have to be a recent enough version, and I'm sure as hell that the version that came with 11/730 is too old. A newer version of VMB can be pulled out of almost any VMS or Ultrix distribution, but the one I have seen was 40 KB long. Thus even if I manage to make a boot.730 that fits within 12.5 KB, you would still need the 40 KB VMB.EXE if your disk is RAxx (the most common type), and this obviously makes boot.730 squeezing an exercise in futility. Resolution: I will pitch the *.730 programs and add a note to the documentation that installation on a 730 requires a ucode upgrade that fixes this botch. If someone asks me where to obtain one (or how to write one if it doesn't exist), I'll redirect them to this list, as I have no idea. :-) Sincerely, Michael Sokolov Cellular phone: 216-217-2579 ARPA Internet SMTP mail: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu

26 years, 2 months

11/730 question

by mxs46＠k2.scl.cwru.edu

Dear PUPS/TUHS members, I wonder if any of you has some input on this issue. As I'm preparing for making my planned disk labeling improvements (making it possible to install the system on a fresh unlabeled disk in a more or less straightforward way), I first want to clean up some mess in the standalone system. One thing that annoys me in there is that for every standalone program that's supposed to go on the console media there are two versions built, a normal one and a "730" one. The comments say that 11/730 has a microcode botch that prevents it from loading programs larger than 12.5 KB, so supposedly all "730" standalone programs must be smaller than that. However, right now all standalone programs are around 30 KB, and the difference between the normal and "730" versions is only about 3 KB, even though the "730" versions do have the MASSBUS and BI code compiled out. Wondering if there is a way to make them smaller, I looked at older versions, and guess what, even in 4.2 the "730" versions are a little bit over the alleged 12.5 KB limit! That's right, 4.2BSD is the first release with 11/730 support, and its standalone programs are already over the alleged 11/730 microcode limit! This raises quite a few questions. First of all, does the 11/730 microcode really have this limitation, or is it just a hoax? If this limit does exist, when exactly does it apply? The BSD distribution TU58 cassette always used the full versions of the programs, not the "730" ones (the distribution cassette is also used for 750s), and yet apparently 730s could be bootstrapped from it. Maybe this limitation applies only to automatic bootstrap and not to manual loading? And if this is indeed a microcode botch, are there any patches available for it? I would appreciate it if someone here can provide some answers to these questions. I would really like to get rid of those "730" standalone programs, but I can't do it if this would break 11/730 support. (It's my responsibility as the 4.3BSD-* maintainer to only add features, but never break anything that works in plain 4.3 or 4.2.) Sincerely, Michael Sokolov Cellular phone: 216-217-2579 ARPA Internet SMTP mail: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA13144 for pups-liszt; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:00:18 +1100 (EST) >From Kirk McKusick <mckusick(a)mckusick.com> Wed Jan 13 06:18:13 1999 Received: from flamingo.McKusick.COM (root(a)flamingo.mckusick.com [209.31.233.178]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA13139 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:00:10 +1100 (EST) Received: from flamingo.McKusick.COM (mckusick@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flamingo.McKusick.COM (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA10534; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:18:13 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901122018.MAA10534(a)flamingo.McKusick.COM> To: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu (Michael Sokolov) Subject: Re: 11/730 question cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:18:35 EST." <199901122318.SAA04873(a)skybridge.scl.cwru.edu> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:18:13 -0800 From: Kirk McKusick <mckusick(a)mckusick.com> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk I applaud your desire not to break old 4.2/4.3 machines. I would be very resistant to losing support for a popular machine like the 11/750. However, I think that losing support for the 11/730 would be acceptable. It was a very feeble processor (0.3 of a 780) and very few of them were ever sold. We had only one at Berkeley (for porting purposes), and it was so slow that we were not even able to pawn it off on the undergrad CS organization when we were done with it. Kirk Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA13915 for pups-liszt; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:15:54 +1100 (EST)

26 years, 2 months

Confirming machine hardware.

by BeLFrY

G'day all... I have a DEC-PRO/350. I believe it is a PDP8. Is there any way of confirming this? Thanks. Michael. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA11300 for pups-liszt; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 01:27:45 +1100 (EST) >From "emanuel stiebler" <emu(a)ecubics.com> Wed Jan 13 00:26:39 1999 Received: from biz1.mailsrvcs.net (biz1.gte.net [207.115.153.50]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA11295 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 01:27:36 +1100 (EST) Received: from p2350 ([208.254.195.48]) by biz1.mailsrvcs.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-40549L5000S0) with ESMTP id AAA22519; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:27:30 -0600 From: "emanuel stiebler" <emu(a)ecubics.com> To: "BeLFrY" <belfry(a)nsw.bigpond.net.au>, "\"\\\"PUPs\\\" PDP11 Unix Preservation group\"" <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Re: Confirming machine hardware. Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 07:26:39 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19990112142726.AAA22519@p2350> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi Michael, ---------- > From: BeLFrY <belfry(a)nsw.bigpond.net.au> > To: "\"PUPs\" PDP11 Unix Preservation group" <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au> > Subject: Confirming machine hardware. > Date: Monday, January 11, 1999 11:34 PM > I have a DEC-PRO/350. which is nice ;-)) > I believe it is a PDP8. > Is there any way of confirming this? Sorry, there is no way to confirm this ;-)) (sorry, couldn't resist) the nearest "brother" of the pro/350 would be the pdp11/23, pdp11//23+ or pdp11/24, because the use the same CPU. (DCF11) hope it helps, emanuel Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA12405 for pups-liszt; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 06:43:32 +1100 (EST) >From Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Update.UU.SE> Wed Jan 13 05:43:04 1999 Received: from Zeke.Update.UU.SE (IDENT:2026@Zeke.Update.UU.SE [130.238.11.14]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA12400 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 06:43:22 +1100 (EST) Received: from localhost (bqt@localhost) by Zeke.Update.UU.SE (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA09742; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:43:06 +0100 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:43:04 +0100 (MET) From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Update.UU.SE> To: BeLFrY <belfry(a)nsw.bigpond.net.au> cc: "\"\\\"PUPs\\\" PDP11 Unix Preservation group\"" <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Re: Confirming machine hardware. In-Reply-To: <369AECFA.87A55C4(a)nsw.bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: <Pine.VUL.3.93.990112204229.9487A-100000(a)Zeke.Update.UU.SE> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, BeLFrY wrote: > G'day all... Hi there. > I have a DEC-PRO/350. > > I believe it is a PDP8. > > Is there any way of confirming this? No. However I can confirm that it is a pdp-11. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

26 years, 2 months

Re: EDU MAGAZINE

by Warren Toomey

In article by Lawrence Reinish: > I am looking for several issues of 'EDU MAGAZINE' from mid-1975 to 1976. > It was published by Digital Equipment Corporation. Any assistance would be > greatly appreciated. > > Lawrence Reinish Lawrence, I don't have any copies. I'll forward this on to some people who might be able to help you. Cheers, Warren

26 years, 2 months

Earliest UNIX source!

by Warren Toomey

All, Dennis has just passed to me the source to a UNIX kernel around the 3rd Edition (i.e around 1973). He says this is the oldest machine-readable UNIX source he has. I've just placed it in the PUPS archive at: Distributions/research/Dennis_v3 Cheers, Warren

26 years, 2 months

My mail screw-up

by mxs46＠k2.scl.cwru.edu

Hello everyone, Sorry for being away from the list lately, the machine I was doing my E-mail on (harrier.Uznet.NET) has been down for several days, and I have to assume that it's down forever. I have moved my mail back to my old address <mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu>. If any of you have sent any mail to msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET in the past several days, please resend it to mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu, since harrier.Uznet.NET is probably down forever and everything in my mailbox is lost. (I have recovered the missed pups mail via the archive.) Sorry for this screw-up, but it's not my fault, I'm not that machine's admin. (The admin is Stacy Minkin, whom I can't contact because his address is also obviously on that machine.) Sincerely, Michael Sokolov Cellular phone: 216-217-2579 ARPA Internet SMTP mail: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA16866 for pups-liszt; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:39:00 +1100 (EST) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Thu Jan 7 13:39:39 1999 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA16861 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:38:52 +1100 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA27637 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:39:39 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <199901070339.OAA27637(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: V8's roots? (fwd) To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:39:39 +1100 (EST) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk ----- Forwarded message from dmr ----- I also got mail from Norman Wilson today about the discussion. This is mainly to confirm and fill out details of Wilson's account. The Eighth Edition system started with (I believe) BSD 4.1c and the work was done on VAX 11/750s -- our group did not get a 780 until a while later. Most of the operating system superstructure of BSD was retained (in particular no one (even the indefatigable Norman) wanted to get much into the paging code. Norman is also right that the competitor was John Reiser's (and Tom London's) 32V descendant from another group at the Labs. In structure this system had a lot to offer (in particular the buffer cache and the page pool were unified, but it was clear that their work was not being supported by their own management. It was used for a while on our first 750 and also our first 11/780 ("alice", a name that lives in netnews fame preceding the reach of Dejanews). The big change leading to V8 was the scooping-out and replacement of the character-device and networking part by the streams mechanism. Later, Peter Weinberger added the file-system switch that enabled remote file systems and prescient things ideas like /proc). Weinberger, as Norman said, also did a simple-minded FFS. The TCP/IP stack wasn't very important to us then and it has a mixed and murky history. Much of it came from early CSRG work, but it was converted to a streams approach by Robert Morris and subsequently fiddled over a lot. Likewise, as Norman said, the applications (/bin and whatnot) were somewhat of a mixture. Many were the locally-done versions, some were taken from BSD in some incarnation, some from System V. Dennis ----- End of forwarded message from dmr -----

26 years, 2 months

Re: V8's roots?

by norman＠nose.cita.utoronto.ca

The operating system kernel on the V8 distribution tape (which was sent to less than a dozen places, under special license) was indeed descended from one of the 4.1 BSD releases; I have a vague memory that it was 4.1a, but I wasn't there at the time, and don't know just what was in each of the intermediate 4.1s. As I understand the history (again, I wasn't there when this part happened), when the Computing Science Research Center decided to move its main computing world to VAX in the early 1980s, they wanted a reasonably stable, reasonably fast system with paging, and 4.1x (for whatever value of x it was) seemed the best available choice. The only real competitor was the paging descendant of 32/V done by John Reiser (who did the original 32/V port to the VAX, I believe), but that system seemed to have lost the evolutionary battle and was judged a bad bet. It may help to identify the kernel in question to know that it probably didn't have sockets yet, and certainly didn't have FFS. The 4.1x kernel was just used as a base, however. By the time I arrived at the Center in late 1984, a good bit had been added and replaced: the V7-heritage terminal IO subsystem had been kicked out in favour of Dennis Ritchie's stream I/O system; Peter Weinberger's simple disk file system speedups (4KB blocks and a bitmapped free list, nothing more) and network file system code and the corresponding file system switch had been added; Tom Killian's process file system had appeared. The commands in /bin and /usr/bin and whatnot had less obvious BSD influence, and I suspect they were mostly carried over from the system used internally on the PDP11s when the VAXes first arrived. Norman Wilson (six years in New Jersey drove me out of the country) Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA15731 for pups-liszt; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:29:31 +1100 (EST)

26 years, 2 months

Twist of Fate...

by Erin W. Corliss

So get this -- Matt Kjaer, a friend of a friend of mine and the person who originally got me interested in PDP's, works at the University of Oregon computing center. He claims that if he can dig it up, the University of Oregon has an original Unix license for PDP-11's. I'm not sure what version of Unix it is or if it's even from SCO, but assuming it is, where do we fax/mail/deliver/etc a copy of it to get access to the legendary protected FTP directory with the source codes? Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA15372 for pups-liszt; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:19:53 +1100 (EST) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Thu Jan 7 08:20:25 1999 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA15367 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:19:45 +1100 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA19617; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:20:25 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <199901062220.JAA19617(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: Twist of Fate... In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990106125635.20195A-100000(a)coffee.corliss.net> from "Erin W. Corliss" at "Jan 6, 1999 1: 6:48 pm" To: erin(a)coffee.corliss.net (Erin W. Corliss) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:20:25 +1100 (EST) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by Erin W. Corliss: > > So get this -- Matt Kjaer, a friend of a friend of mine and the person who > originally got me interested in PDP's, works at the University of Oregon > computing center. He claims that if he can dig it up, the University of > Oregon has an original Unix license for PDP-11's. I'm not sure what > version of Unix it is or if it's even from SCO, but assuming it is, where > do we fax/mail/deliver/etc a copy of it to get access to the legendary > protected FTP directory with the source codes? Fax a copy to me (the pages giving the license owner, the license number, the list of operating systems covered, the list of CPUs covered, and the signatures), and then get Matt to email me! As per usual, I need to send back access details securely. A fax number or a means of obtaining a PGP key will allow me to do this. Cheers, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA15403 for pups-liszt; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:26:20 +1100 (EST) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Thu Jan 7 08:26:54 1999 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA15398 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:26:12 +1100 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA19685; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:26:54 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <199901062226.JAA19685(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: Twist of Fate... In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990106142501.20945A-100000(a)coffee.corliss.net> from "Erin W. Corliss" at "Jan 6, 1999 2:26:32 pm" To: erin(a)coffee.corliss.net (Erin W. Corliss) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:26:54 +1100 (EST) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by Erin W. Corliss: > On Thu, 7 Jan 1999, Warren Toomey wrote: > > > Fax a copy to me (the pages giving the license owner, the license number, > > the list of operating systems covered, the list of CPUs covered, and the > > signatures), and then get Matt to email me! > > What's your fax number? Damn, I knew I'd forget to put that in! Warren: +61 2 6268 8581 Ciao, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA15593 for pups-liszt; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:00:00 +1100 (EST) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Thu Jan 7 09:00:40 1999 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA15588 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:59:53 +1100 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA19815 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:00:40 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <199901062300.KAA19815(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Bob Manners: new email addr? To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:00:40 +1100 (EST) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Sorry to bother the list. Mail to Bob Manners rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk is bouncing, and I know he'd like to stay on the PUPS list. Has anybody got a new address for him? Thanks, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA15622 for pups-liszt; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:04:51 +1100 (EST)

26 years, 2 months

Re: OK I got this here VAXen thingie.... what is it?

by mxs46＠k2.scl.cwru.edu

"User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> wrote: > Machine: VAXstation 3500, no consoles or external boxes, only the tower. Will run my latest OS release, 4.3BSD-Quasijarus0, like a charm. > Tape Drive: TK70 Great! 4.3BSD-Quasijarus0 bootstraps from TK70s beaufifully. > Hard Drive: RA70 Also great! You are incredibly lucky here that 4.3BSD-* already knows about RA70 and thus you can install 4.3BSD-Quasijarus0 on this disk directly even when it's unlabeled. If you had third-party MSCP disks, you would have to install Ultrix first to label the disk. This is due to 4.3BSD-Quasijarus0's inability to install on unknown unlabeled disks. This limitation will be lifted in the next Quasijarus release, which I'm already working on. > 1 KA650 -BA A very nice CPU, rated at 2.8 VUPs. 4.3BSD-Quasijarus0 fully supports it (better than CSRG's Tahoe and Reno releases). KA650 support is present in the GENERIC kernel, so it will Just Boot (tm). The "-BA" part means that it has bit 1 set in the second longword of the EPROM, causing DEC proprietary OSes to treat it as a "single-user" machine. Research OSes like 4.3BSD-* ignore this bit. But if you do want to convert your machine to "multiuser" status, clear bit 1, set bit 0, and recalculate the checksum (you'll need an EPROM blaster). This will turn your CPU into a KA650-AA. You also have the option of upgrading this CPU to a KA655 (3.8 VUPs) or KA660 (5 VUPs). KA655 is also fully supported by 4.3BSD-Quasijarus0, and KA660 support is coming soon (100% guarrantee that I'll get it before NetBSD does). > 2 MS650 -AA > 3 MS650 -AA -AA is a 8 MB board, so you have a total of 16 MB of RAM. Note, though, that -AAs are old boards, and they work only with KA650 and KA640. If you decide to upgrade to KA655 or KA660, you'll need either DEC MS650-Bx or third-party MS650-compatible memory. These work with all KA650 series CPUs. > 4 DELQA -SA Ethernet. Fully supported by Berkeley UNIX since 4.3BSD. > 5 VCB02 > 6 VCB02 > 7 VCB02 QDSS video. 4.3BSD-Quasijarus0 should support this (untested), but since you don't have a VAXstation monitor or keyboard anyway, pull these three boards out and move everything else to the right (you can't leave empty Q-bus slots in the middle). > 8 CXY08 8-line asynchronous multiplexer (8-port serial interface). Not sure if 4.3BSD-* has a driver for it (I haven't touched this area and left it as it was in CSRG's Tahoe release). It has some drivers for DEC asynchronous multiplexers, but DEC made a lot of different ones, and I don't know where does CXY08 stand with respect to everything else DEC has produced. Ultrix supports it for sure, though. > 9 TQK70 Controller for TK70. > 10 KDA50 > 11 KDA50 Controller for RA70 (or any other SDI disks you may want to connect). > Any suggestions are appreciated. Hmm, it looks like you have already been brainwashed by one NutBSDist. Please don't listen to him. Running NetBSD is conduct unbecoming a PUPS/TUHS member. NetBSD is the worst OS a VAX can run. Its code is a total mess, and its "developers" are incompetent morons (I know, I've been on their list for 6 months or so). They have no clue as to how to write VAX OSes, and their list of supported hardware is as skinny as their brains. NetBSD is extremely flaky, and it's extremely bloated. My authoritative advice to you is to run 4.3BSD-Quasijarus0, my latest release made two weeks ago (I'm the maintainer of 4.3BSD-*). It comes with 100% complete source code, and, picture this, the entire system with all binaries _and full sources_ fits in 75 MB! It's absolutely True and Pure UNIX, nothing can be better. There is also Ultrix. No matter how much those losers insult it, it's one of the best OSes in the Universe, second only to 4.3BSD-Quasijarus. Despite what some incompetent morons may say, it is not a "4.2/4.3 mix", it's 100% 4.3. True, it has been interDIGITated by DEC, which makes it a little impure and bloated (and binary-only), but otherwise it's OK. It is bigger than a binary-only 4.3BSD-Quasijarus0 installation, but certainly much smaller than NutBSD. As for the DEC additions, just ignore them! Just because Ultrix optionally supports Sun YP, Hesiod, and other crap doesn't mean that you have to use it! In fact, it's already disabled by default! Just don't enable it, that's all! When /etc/svc.conf selects "local,bind" for hosts and "local" for everything else, Ultrix becomes indistinguishable from 4.3BSD! I can bet that if I show you two VAXen, one running 4.3BSD and the other running Ultrix, you won't be able to tell easily which is which. Also some Ultrix-specific features are really nice. Take NFS, for example. I will certainly add NFS to 4.3BSD-Quasijarus at some point. Also don't forget that Ultrix runs on almost every VAX ever made. I often run Ultrix instead of 4.3BSD-* when the latter doesn't run on the hardware in question. In fact, this is what Ultrix is best for: a fallback OS to replace 4.3BSD-* when it doesn't support the hardware. Of course 4.3BSD-Quasijarus is the best OS in the Universe, and you should always run it whenever possible, but when you can't Ultrix is a very good fallback because it's so close. But since you have a KA650, you don't have to worry about this, as 4.3BSD-Quasijarus0 will run on it like a charm. Best of luck with it. 4.3BSD-Quasijarus0 is in the PUPS archive in the Distributions/4bsd/43quasi0.vax directory. Sincerely, Michael Sokolov Cellular phone: 216-217-2579 ARPA Internet SMTP mail: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA14819 for pups-liszt; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 06:35:05 +1100 (EST)

26 years, 2 months

Re: OK I got this here VAXen thingie.... what is it?

by Johnny Billquist

On Tue, 5 Jan 1999, User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys wrote: > OK, Dummy here stuck his foot in his choppers an' won the bid on that > VAXen for the grand total of eleven buckeroos de realme. What can I > run with it? It was just too much fun to pass up, and it drew too many > chuckles from the PC crowd in the surplus warehouse....(:+}}.... Smile. It's a decent machine. > Machine: VAXstation 3500, no consoles or external boxes, only the tower. > > Tape Drive: TK70 > > Hard Drive: RA70 > > Boards: > > SLOT BOARD NUMBER DESCRIPTION > ---- ------------ ---------------------------------------------- > 1 KA650 -BA CPU > 2 MS650 -AA > 3 MS650 -AA Both are memory boards. Don't know for sure how much. 8 or 16 megs apiece, I'd guess. > 4 DELQA -SA Ethernet. > 5 VCB02 > 6 VCB02 > 7 VCB02 Sounds like a graphic subsystem. > 8 CXY08 Plotter interface? > 9 TQK70 Controller for the TK70 tape drive. > 10 KDA50 > 11 KDA50 Controller for the RA70 disk. (The controller can have up to four disks attached). > What boards are needed to bring up the machine minimally and test it out? CPU and memory minimum. I'd recommend to remove the VCB02 and CXY08, since you don't have the peripherials. Move all other cards up to delete the empty space in the middle. > How should one fire it up the first time, without blowing it up? Turn on the power. > I am working with the original owner of the beast to see if he may have > a box of odd manuals and hopefully tapes still in storage somewhere. > If not, I am at ground zero with it. It's a pretty easy machine to play around with. > I am assuming it will have to be run headless, via an old VT-52ish > Zenith terminal I have, or a Kermit with VT-100 emulation. I don't > have the main color monitor for it, or the mouse and keyboard. > What is the pinout of the silly MMJ connector on the CPU? > Will a plain terminal work OK? Plain terminal will do. In fact, it *expexts* to get a plain terminal. The MMJ is a DEC thingie. The electrical levels are compatible with RS-232. You can get a cable from DEC, or perhaps some other place. I also know that the pinouts have been published on the net from tim to time. > What kinds of printer can be hooked up to it, via what protocols? Protocols? That's software! As for electrically connecting it, that depends on what card you put in the machine! Paralell or serial, you choose! > What is the best way to network it into my local home ethernet coax? I assume you have 10Base2, so get an AUI-cable to extend the connection from the DELQA to outside the box, get a 10Base2-transciever, and you're set. For other types of carriers, get the proper transciever! :-) > Any suggestions are appreciated. Yes. Boot NetBSD on it. Get 1.3.2, which works pretty fine on the machine. You can netboot it to get started. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA11143 for pups-liszt; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:54:54 +1100 (EST) >From "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Wed Jan 6 07:47:55 1999 Received: from seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu [152.1.88.4]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA11138 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:54:44 +1100 (EST) Received: (from rdkeys@localhost) by seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA28061; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:47:55 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from rdkeys) From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Message-Id: <199901052147.QAA28061(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Subject: Re: OK I got this here VAXen thingie.... what is it? In-Reply-To: <Pine.VUL.3.93.990105205913.2044A-100000(a)Zeke.Update.UU.SE> from Johnny Billquist at "Jan 5, 99 09:07:11 pm" To: bqt(a)Update.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:47:55 -0500 (EST) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au, bsdbob(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > On Tue, 5 Jan 1999, User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys wrote: > > > OK, Dummy here stuck his foot in his choppers an' won the bid on that > > VAXen for the grand total of eleven buckeroos de realme. What can I > > run with it? It was just too much fun to pass up, and it drew too many > > chuckles from the PC crowd in the surplus warehouse....(:+}}.... > > Smile. It's a decent machine. I am beginning to think my eleven buckeroos de realme were well spent! > > Hard Drive: RA70 What different SDI(?) drives will fit and work in the VAXstation, for our play purposes. Someone mentioned a 1 gig and a 2 gig size that I might want to use instead of the RA70, although beggars like me can't be too choosy. A pair of RA70's would make a fair minimal box. A pair of 2 gig drives would make a very comfy box to use as the main home server. > > What boards are needed to bring up the machine minimally and test it out? > > CPU and memory minimum. > I'd recommend to remove the VCB02 and CXY08, since you don't have the > peripherials. Move all other cards up to delete the empty space in the > middle. OK. What should cover the blank space in the rack, or just leave it open? Any funky jumpers to set like on Sun VME backplanes? > > How should one fire it up the first time, without blowing it up? > > Turn on the power. I was thinking about boot sequences for roms or whatever, or anything strange in the callup from a dumb terminal. Someone mentioned setting a break switch and a baud rate dial on the CPU? > > I am working with the original owner of the beast to see if he may have > > a box of odd manuals and hopefully tapes still in storage somewhere. > > If not, I am at ground zero with it. > > It's a pretty easy machine to play around with. I did get a box from the previous owner a few minutes ago, and there were a dozen or so TK50 tapes that I need to sort out what is on them. He though they were Ultrix and VMS tapes. If they turn out to be unknowns, I can probably use them to get someone to write a good boot tape for a BSD flavor, perhaps. If they are, indeed Ultrix, would that be better or worse than a 4.3BSD or NetBSD or such? I have never run Ultrix, but I am comfy with 4.3BSD or NetBSD kinds of things, as long as they don't get too strange. I don't think I would like a VMS. > Plain terminal will do. In fact, it *expexts* to get a plain terminal. > The MMJ is a DEC thingie. The electrical levels are compatible with > RS-232. You can get a cable from DEC, or perhaps some other place. I also > know that the pinouts have been published on the net from tim to time. Also, the guy gave me a cable with a DEC female DB25 adapter, a MMJ end, an RJ11 end, and a plain RS232 DB25 male adapter. Would that be usable for a console or is that some kind of printer cable? He thought it was plain serial, but was not sure. > > What kinds of printer can be hooked up to it, via what protocols? > > Protocols? That's software! > As for electrically connecting it, that depends on what card you put in > the machine! Paralell or serial, you choose! Well, I prefer serial, no-handshake printer lines on my old junkque. That is a carryover from my early CP/M days where one never knew which RS232 cable to use, and I got quickly in the habit of 3-wiring everything, instead. Software or non-shake protocol always worked, if 4/5, 4/8/20 were jumpered on each end. One of my friends said that DEC did some strange protocols on serial lines, and I was just checking for sure. > > What is the best way to network it into my local home ethernet coax? > > I assume you have 10Base2, so get an AUI-cable to extend the connection > from the DELQA to outside the box, get a 10Base2-transciever, and you're > set. For other types of carriers, get the proper transciever! :-) I must rub the right rabbit's food today. Another friend gave me a DEC dongle box and cable that is an AUI to BNC transceiver (DECSTA?). That is a good find, or the right find, perhaps? > > Any suggestions are appreciated. > > Yes. Boot NetBSD on it. Get 1.3.2, which works pretty fine on the machine. > You can netboot it to get started. My problem is getting it up to a network. My home net is mostly down or only running between whichever two boxes I can get up at the same time. Most are AIX/4.3BSD IBM RT-PC boxes or FreeBSD/AIX x86 boxes. Proper netbooting on them is a bit wierd. I might could drag it into the office and netboot off the archives somewhere. That may be the easiest thing to do, practically. Most of the boxes I prefer to load via tape, if possible for a lowest common denominator boot when all else may fail. That way, everything is covered. What needs to be cleaned out around the cabinetry or power supplies or backplane? I don't want to get dustbunny fireballs rolling out of it, if possible. Is there anything I should look out for in preflighting the beast, over the usual blow it out with a vacuum cleaner or air hose? > Johnny Anyway, toy VAXuser getting there little by little.....(:+}}.... Maybe I will get the itch to fire it up tonight. Now to feed the Reddy Kilowatt meter man. I hear these VAXen things make him very happy. Bob Keys Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA11273 for pups-liszt; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:33:18 +1100 (EST) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Wed Jan 6 08:33:57 1999 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA11268 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:33:09 +1100 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA12801 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:33:57 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <199901052233.JAA12801(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: V8's roots? To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:33:57 +1100 (EST) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Just got this email from a friend... ----- Forwarded message from David Blackman ----- Just had a quick look at [Warren's Unix family tree diagram] You list Research V8 as successor to V7, which is true i guess, but i've seen several sources say most of the kernel was derived from a BSD version, probably 4.1. ----- End of forwarded message from David Blackman ----- Can anybody confirm or deny this? I suppose I should ask Dennis. Ta, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA11605 for pups-liszt; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 11:36:31 +1100 (EST) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Wed Jan 6 10:37:10 1999 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA11600 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 11:36:23 +1100 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA15385 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 11:37:10 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <199901060037.LAA15385(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Apout: new version + freeze To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 11:37:10 +1100 (EST) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk All, I've put yet a new version of the Apout PDP-11 a.out simulator in ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Sims/Apout and now I'm going to stop working on it for a while. This means you won't get these annoying emails any more :-) Current version is apout2.2alpha6. The latest changes are: + Runs 2.11BSD binaries, including overlay binaries + Runs shell scripts + Can exec native binaries as well as PDP-11 a.out binaries + Has floating point operations + Still emulates V5/V6/V7 UNIX binaries + On a Pentium Pro 350MHz, compiles the 2.11BSD GENERIC kernel in 4 minutes 16 seconds. + Now uses u_int* throughout + Finally, a man page exists Enjoy! Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA12041 for pups-liszt; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 13:56:09 +1100 (EST) >From Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Update.UU.SE> Wed Jan 6 12:54:31 1999 Received: from Zeke.Update.UU.SE (IDENT:2026@Zeke.Update.UU.SE [130.238.11.14]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA12035 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 13:55:56 +1100 (EST) Received: from localhost (bqt@localhost) by Zeke.Update.UU.SE (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA12954; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 03:54:33 +0100 Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 03:54:31 +0100 (MET) From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Update.UU.SE> To: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au, bsdbob(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: OK I got this here VAXen thingie.... what is it? In-Reply-To: <199901052147.QAA28061(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Message-ID: <Pine.VUL.3.93.990106033734.12114A-100000(a)Zeke.Update.UU.SE> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Tue, 5 Jan 1999, User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys wrote: > I am beginning to think my eleven buckeroos de realme were well spent! I'd say so. > What different SDI(?) drives will fit and work in the VAXstation, for our > play purposes. Someone mentioned a 1 gig and a 2 gig size that I might > want to use instead of the RA70, although beggars like me can't be too > choosy. A pair of RA70's would make a fair minimal box. A pair of > 2 gig drives would make a very comfy box to use as the main home server. Fit as in physically fit. The RA7x series will fit. However, only the RA70 as far as I know have a switch pack for setting unit numbers. Any other type of drive will default to unit zero unless you have a proper front panel. All RA-drives will work however. Me I have one RA72 in the box, two RA90 and one RA92 lying on the floor. :-) Also remember that VAX binaries are *smaller* than what you might be used to see. This is a CISC. > OK. What should cover the blank space in the rack, or just leave it open? If you have blank covers, put them there. It improves the air flow in the box. But you should be able to run it as is. > Any funky jumpers to set like on Sun VME backplanes? Nope. Just keep al the cards next to each other. > > > How should one fire it up the first time, without blowing it up? > > > > Turn on the power. > > I was thinking about boot sequences for roms or whatever, or anything > strange in the callup from a dumb terminal. Someone mentioned setting > a break switch and a baud rate dial on the CPU? Ok. To boot the machine, try "B <device>", where disks are DUAx, tape is MUA0 and ethernet XNA0 (I think...) If you open up the front you'll notice that the CPU fron panel cover has, in addition to the connector for the console, a small display, a three position dial switch and a two-position switch. If you look at the back of the panel, you have thumbweel. The thumbweel sets the baudrate for the console. There should be a sticker beside it with the key. The three-position switch selects power-up action. Language menu, boot or eternal selftest. The two-position switch selects whether booting to console prompt, or booting all the way with OS. There are a number of commands you can give at the ">>>" prompt. Useful is (among others) "SHOW ETHERNET" which tells your ethernet address. > I did get a box from the previous owner a few minutes ago, and there > were a dozen or so TK50 tapes that I need to sort out what is on them. Try booting them. > He though they were Ultrix and VMS tapes. If they turn out to be > unknowns, I can probably use them to get someone to write a good > boot tape for a BSD flavor, perhaps. If they are, indeed Ultrix, > would that be better or worse than a 4.3BSD or NetBSD or such? Ultrix is definitely not something you want to run. It's okay to have around, but it's not that much fun. It's more or less a mix between 4.2 and 4.3. > I have never run Ultrix, but I am comfy with 4.3BSD or NetBSD kinds > of things, as long as they don't get too strange. I don't think I > would like a VMS. VMS is nice. :-) > > Plain terminal will do. In fact, it *expexts* to get a plain terminal. > > The MMJ is a DEC thingie. The electrical levels are compatible with > > RS-232. You can get a cable from DEC, or perhaps some other place. I also > > know that the pinouts have been published on the net from tim to time. > > Also, the guy gave me a cable with a DEC female DB25 adapter, a MMJ end, > an RJ11 end, and a plain RS232 DB25 male adapter. Would that be usable > for a console or is that some kind of printer cable? He thought it was > plain serial, but was not sure. The cable should be usable. If you have a VT220 or newer, the cable can be used without any adapter at all. > > > What kinds of printer can be hooked up to it, via what protocols? > > > > Protocols? That's software! > > As for electrically connecting it, that depends on what card you put in > > the machine! Paralell or serial, you choose! > > Well, I prefer serial, no-handshake printer lines on my old junkque. Ah. Intelligent opinion. Since the CXY08 is a serial interface, that's your answer. (If the CXY08 has a driver for the OS of your choise.) > That is a carryover from my early CP/M days where one never knew > which RS232 cable to use, and I got quickly in the habit of 3-wiring > everything, instead. Software or non-shake protocol always worked, > if 4/5, 4/8/20 were jumpered on each end. One of my friends said that > DEC did some strange protocols on serial lines, and I was just checking > for sure. DEC has very seldom done strange things. It's rather the other way around... Most likely your friend might have heard of DECs refusal to use modem signals for handshake, since neither a computer, nor a printer is a modem. (And by the book they are right, it's just that most other people like to violate this fact. :-) DEC always uses XON/XOFF. > > > What is the best way to network it into my local home ethernet coax? > > > > I assume you have 10Base2, so get an AUI-cable to extend the connection > > from the DELQA to outside the box, get a 10Base2-transciever, and you're > > set. For other types of carriers, get the proper transciever! :-) > > I must rub the right rabbit's food today. Another friend gave me a DEC dongle > box and cable that is an AUI to BNC transceiver (DECSTA?). That is a good > find, or the right find, perhaps? Probably. I don't know offhand what the DEC transciever is called, but I doubt there are any others with the right kind of looking connectors. > > > Any suggestions are appreciated. > > > > Yes. Boot NetBSD on it. Get 1.3.2, which works pretty fine on the machine. > > You can netboot it to get started. > > My problem is getting it up to a network. My home net is mostly down > or only running between whichever two boxes I can get up at the same time. > Most are AIX/4.3BSD IBM RT-PC boxes or FreeBSD/AIX x86 boxes. Proper > netbooting on them is a bit wierd. Well, it isn't *them* you are about to netboot, but the VAX. :-) > I might could drag it into the office and netboot off the archives somewhere. > That may be the easiest thing to do, practically. Maybe. > Most of the boxes I prefer to load via tape, if possible for a lowest common > denominator boot when all else may fail. That way, everything is covered. Well, if you have VMS or Ultrix, you can write out tapes... > What needs to be cleaned out around the cabinetry or power supplies or > backplane? I don't want to get dustbunny fireballs rolling out of it, > if possible. Is there anything I should look out for in preflighting > the beast, over the usual blow it out with a vacuum cleaner or air hose? Getting the dust out is always a Good Thing (tm). If you are a hardware junkie, you'll start by disassembling the power supply into small bits and check it out througly before reassembling it and allowing it to feed the system. Me, I'd just power the thing on. :-) > Anyway, toy VAXuser getting there little by little.....(:+}}.... > Maybe I will get the itch to fire it up tonight. Now to feed the > Reddy Kilowatt meter man. I hear these VAXen things make him very > happy. Nah. A 3500 is a small thing. Try an 8650 instead. :-) Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA12768 for pups-liszt; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 17:37:38 +1100 (EST) >From Kirk McKusick <mckusick(a)mckusick.com> Wed Jan 6 15:46:58 1999 Received: from flamingo.McKusick.COM (flamingo.mckusick.com [209.31.233.178]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA12763 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 17:37:15 +1100 (EST) Received: from flamingo.McKusick.COM (mckusick@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flamingo.McKusick.COM (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA26800; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 21:47:34 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901060547.VAA26800(a)flamingo.McKusick.COM> To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: V8's roots? cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 06 Jan 1999 09:33:57 +1100." <199901052233.JAA12801(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 21:46:58 -0800 From: Kirk McKusick <mckusick(a)mckusick.com> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: V8's roots? To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:33:57 +1100 (EST) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Just got this email from a friend... ----- Forwarded message from David Blackman ----- Just had a quick look at [Warren's Unix family tree diagram] You list Research V8 as successor to V7, which is true i guess, but i've seen several sources say most of the kernel was derived from a BSD version, probably 4.1. ----- End of forwarded message from David Blackman ----- Can anybody confirm or deny this? I suppose I should ask Dennis. Ta, Warren There was a big infusion of 4.1BSD into the research group system between V7 and V8. Dennis could give you more details. ~Kirk Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA14605 for pups-liszt; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 05:14:10 +1100 (EST) >From Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Thu Jan 7 04:07:15 1999 Received: from mpl.ucsd.edu (chiton.ucsd.edu [192.135.238.128]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA14600 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 05:14:01 +1100 (EST) Received: (from cdl@localhost) by mpl.ucsd.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) id KAA24704; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:07:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:07:15 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Message-Id: <199901061807.KAA24704(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> To: bqt(a)Update.UU.SE, rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: OK I got this here VAXen thingie.... what is it? Cc: bsdbob(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 21:07:11 +0100 (MET) > From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Update.UU.SE> > On Tue, 5 Jan 1999, User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys wrote: > > > OK, Dummy here stuck his foot in his choppers an' won the bid on that > > VAXen for the grand total of eleven buckeroos de realme. What can I > > run with it? It was just too much fun to pass up, and it drew too many > > chuckles from the PC crowd in the surplus warehouse....(:+}}.... > > I assume you have 10Base2, so get an AUI-cable to extend the connection > from the DELQA to outside the box, get a 10Base2-transciever, and you're > set. For other types of carriers, get the proper transciever! :-) For short runs of AUI cable (a couple of feet) you can cheat by using crimp-on IDC connectors and flat ribbon cable. Frequently that is more available than real AUI cables. carl carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA14757 for pups-liszt; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 06:27:50 +1100 (EST)

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TUHS January 1999