11 Mar
2021
11 Mar
'21
5:13 p.m.
Hi,
I'm not sure where this message best fits; TUHS, COFF, or Internet
History, so please forgive me if this list is not the best location.
I'm discussing the hosts file with someone and was wondering if there's
any historical documentation around it's format and what should and
should not be entered in the file.
I've read the current man page on Gentoo Linux, but suspect that it's
far from authoritative. I'm hoping that someone can point me to
something more authoritative to the hosts file's format, guidelines
around entering data, and how it's supposed to function.
A couple of sticking points in the other discussion revolve around how
many entries a host is supposed to have in the hosts file and any
ramifications for having a host appear as an alias on multiple lines /
entries. To whit, how correct / incorrect is the following:
192.0.2.1 host.example.net host
127.0.0.1 localhost host.example.net host
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
11 Mar
11 Mar
5:29 p.m.
Grant Taylor wrote in
<02d10a8e-2f39-4f88-f4c9-ecb295e0f01e(a)spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net>et>:
|Hi,
|
|I'm not sure where this message best fits; TUHS, COFF, or Internet
|History, so please forgive me if this list is not the best location.
|
|I'm discussing the hosts file with someone and was wondering if there's
|any historical documentation around it's format and what should and
|should not be entered in the file.
|
|I've read the current man page on Gentoo Linux, but suspect that it's
|far from authoritative. I'm hoping that someone can point me to
|something more authoritative to the hosts file's format, guidelines
|around entering data, and how it's supposed to function.
|
|A couple of sticking points in the other discussion revolve around how
|many entries a host is supposed to have in the hosts file and any
|ramifications for having a host appear as an alias on multiple lines /
|entries. To whit, how correct / incorrect is the following:
|
|192.0.2.1 host.example.net host
|127.0.0.1 localhost host.example.net host
Address, "official name", aliases.
And as many as you want i'd say. It is just that an alias might
be hidden and never be found (if actually hidden). This is at
least how i interpreted it.
--steffen
|
|Der Kragenbaer, The moon bear,
|der holt sich munter he cheerfully and one by one
|einen nach dem anderen runter wa.ks himself off
|(By Robert Gernhardt)
9:03 p.m.
On 3/11/21 10:29 AM, Steffen Nurpmeso wrote:
Address, "official name", aliases.
And as many as you want i'd say. It is just that an alias might be
hidden and never be found (if actually hidden). This is at least
how i interpreted it.
Please clarify what you mean by "And as many as you want".
Do you man as many /aliases/ and / or as many /entries/ (lines) in the file?
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
9:21 p.m.
On Mar 11, 2021, at 1:03 PM, Grant Taylor via COFF <coff(a)minnie.tuhs.org> wrote:
On 3/11/21 10:29 AM, Steffen Nurpmeso wrote:
The FreeBSD man page I quoted from (prob. orig. from 4.2BSD or so) shows no such
restriction so you can have as many aliases as you wnat as and many entries as you
want. But an implementation may have its own limits.
And if you have non-unique names or addresses, be prepared for surprises.
Address, "official name", aliases.
And as many as you want i'd say. It is just that an alias might be hidden and never
be found (if actually hidden). This is at least how i interpreted it.
Please clarify what you mean by "And as many as you want".
Do you man as many /aliases/ and / or as many /entries/ (lines) in the file?
9:29 p.m.
Grant Taylor wrote in
<80d8f9bc-31d6-6bb8-03e6-ce53cc4a9cdb(a)spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net>et>:
|On 3/11/21 10:29 AM, Steffen Nurpmeso wrote:
|> Address, "official name", aliases.
|> And as many as you want i'd say. It is just that an alias might be
|> hidden and never be found (if actually hidden). This is at least
|> how i interpreted it.
|
|Please clarify what you mean by "And as many as you want".
|
|Do you man as many /aliases/ and / or as many /entries/ (lines) in \
|the file?
Both. Here, that is. The first generated AorAAAA, the latter
were "system alias" names (not even cname or something) which were
search in preference unless the query gave a conf_noaliases flag.
And the reading was just readLine(). And one thing why i loved
C++, writing something like "_line.trim().squeeze().data()" in
C is terrible.
--steffen
|
|Der Kragenbaer, The moon bear,
|der holt sich munter he cheerfully and one by one
|einen nach dem anderen runter wa.ks himself off
|(By Robert Gernhardt)
5:40 p.m.
New subject: [TUHS] Pondering the hosts file
From https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?hosts(5)
For each host a single line should be present with the following information:
Internet address
official host name
aliases
HISTORY
The hosts file format appeared in 4.2BSD.
On Mar 11, 2021, at 9:14 AM, Grant Taylor via TUHS
<tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org> wrote:
Hi,
I'm not sure where this message best fits; TUHS, COFF, or Internet History, so
please forgive me if this list is not the best location.
I'm discussing the hosts file with someone and was wondering if there's any
historical documentation around it's format and what should and should not be entered
in the file.
I've read the current man page on Gentoo Linux, but suspect that it's far from
authoritative. I'm hoping that someone can point me to something more authoritative
to the hosts file's format, guidelines around entering data, and how it's
supposed to function.
A couple of sticking points in the other discussion revolve around how many entries a
host is supposed to have in the hosts file and any ramifications for having a host appear
as an alias on multiple lines / entries. To whit, how correct / incorrect is the
following:
192.0.2.1 host.example.net host
127.0.0.1 localhost host.example.net host
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
6:08 p.m.
New subject: [TUHS] Pondering the hosts file
On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 10:40 AM Bakul Shah <bakul(a)iitbombay.org> wrote:
From https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?hosts(5)
For each host a single line should be present with the following information:
Internet address
official host name
aliases
*HISTORY* <https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?hosts(5)#end>
The *hosts* file format appeared in 4.2BSD.
While this is true wrt the history of FreeBSD/Unix, I'm almost positive
that BSD didn't invent it. I'm pretty sure it was picked up from the
existing host file that was published by sri-nic.arpa before DNS.
Warner
On Mar 11, 2021, at 9:14 AM, Grant Taylor via TUHS
<tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org>
wrote:
Hi,
I'm not sure where this message best fits; TUHS, COFF, or Internet
History, so please forgive me if this list is not the best location.
I'm discussing the hosts file with someone and was wondering if there's
any historical documentation around it's format and what should and should
not be entered in the file.
I've read the current man page on Gentoo Linux, but suspect that it's far
from authoritative. I'm hoping that someone can point me to something more
authoritative to the hosts file's format, guidelines around entering data,
and how it's supposed to function.
A couple of sticking points in the other discussion revolve around how
many entries a host is supposed to have in the hosts file and any
ramifications for having a host appear as an alias on multiple lines /
entries. To whit, how correct / incorrect is the following:
192.0.2.1 host.example.net host
127.0.0.1 localhost host.example.net host
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
_______________________________________________
COFF mailing list
COFF(a)minnie.tuhs.org
https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff
6:12 p.m.
New subject: [TUHS] Pondering the hosts file
The SRI file was different format. There was a tool that fetched and
converted from the PDP-10 scheme to the UNIX scheme - gethtable(8) or
something like that.
ᐧ
ᐧ
On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 1:08 PM Warner Losh <imp(a)bsdimp.com> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 10:40 AM Bakul Shah <bakul(a)iitbombay.org> wrote:
From
https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?hosts(5)
For each host a single line should be present with the following information:
Internet address
official host name
aliases
*HISTORY* <https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?hosts(5)#end>
The *hosts* file format appeared in 4.2BSD.
While this is true wrt the history of FreeBSD/Unix, I'm almost positive
that BSD didn't invent it. I'm pretty sure it was picked up from the
existing host file that was published by sri-nic.arpa before DNS.
Warner
On Mar 11, 2021, at 9:14 AM, Grant Taylor via
TUHS <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org>
wrote:
Hi,
I'm not sure where this message best fits; TUHS, COFF, or Internet
History, so please forgive me if this list is not the best location.
I'm discussing the hosts file with someone and was wondering if there's
any historical documentation around it's format and what should and should
not be entered in the file.
I've read the current man page on Gentoo Linux, but suspect that it's far
from authoritative. I'm hoping that someone can point me to something more
authoritative to the hosts file's format, guidelines around entering data,
and how it's supposed to function.
A couple of sticking points in the other discussion revolve around how
many entries a host is supposed to have in the hosts file and any
ramifications for having a host appear as an alias on multiple lines /
entries. To whit, how correct / incorrect is the following:
192.0.2.1 host.example.net host
127.0.0.1 localhost host.example.net host
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
_______________________________________________
COFF mailing list
COFF(a)minnie.tuhs.org
https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff
6:21 p.m.
New subject: [TUHS] Pondering the hosts file
The "new" host table format is described in RFC 810
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc810 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc810>
(mentions UNIX) but it goes back to RFC 608 (1974) or so.
jaap
On Mar 11, 2021, at 19:12, Clem Cole
<clemc(a)ccc.com> wrote:
The SRI file was different format. There was a tool that fetched and converted from the
PDP-10 scheme to the UNIX scheme - gethtable(8) or something like that.
ᐧ
ᐧ
On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 1:08 PM Warner Losh <imp(a)bsdimp.com
<mailto:imp@bsdimp.com>> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 10:40 AM Bakul Shah <bakul(a)iitbombay.org
<mailto:bakul@iitbombay.org>> wrote:
From https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?hosts(5)
<https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?hosts(5)>
For each host a single line should be present with the following information:
Internet address
official host name
aliases
HISTORY <https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?hosts(5)#end>
The hosts file format appeared in 4.2BSD.
While this is true wrt the history of FreeBSD/Unix, I'm almost positive that BSD
didn't invent it. I'm pretty sure it was picked up from the existing host file
that was published by sri-nic.arpa before DNS.
Warner
On Mar 11, 2021, at 9:14 AM, Grant Taylor via
TUHS <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org <mailto:tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>> wrote:
Hi,
I'm not sure where this message best fits; TUHS, COFF, or Internet History, so
please forgive me if this list is not the best location.
I'm discussing the hosts file with someone and was wondering if there's any
historical documentation around it's format and what should and should not be entered
in the file.
I've read the current man page on Gentoo Linux, but suspect that it's far from
authoritative. I'm hoping that someone can point me to something more authoritative
to the hosts file's format, guidelines around entering data, and how it's
supposed to function.
A couple of sticking points in the other discussion revolve around how many entries a
host is supposed to have in the hosts file and any ramifications for having a host appear
as an alias on multiple lines / entries. To whit, how correct / incorrect is the
following:
192.0.2.1 host.example.net <http://host.example.net/> host
127.0.0.1 localhost host.example.net <http://host.example.net/> host
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
_______________________________________________
COFF mailing list
COFF(a)minnie.tuhs.org <mailto:COFF@minnie.tuhs.org>
https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff
<https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff> 
6:21 p.m.
New subject: [TUHS] Pondering the hosts file
The hosts file format definition appears in
RFC 752: Universal host table
RFC 810: DoD Internet host table specification
RFC 952: DoD Internet host table specification
A 1986 hosts.txt file in my PDP-10 archives notes:
; The format for entries is:
;
; NET : NET-ADDR : NETNAME :
; GATEWAY : ADDR, ADDR : NAME : CPUTYPE : OPSYS : PROTOCOLS :
; HOST : ADDR, ALTERNATE-ADDR (if any): HOSTNAME,NICKNAME : CPUTYPE :
; OPSYS : PROTOCOLS :
;
; Where:
;; ADDR = internet address in decimal, e.g., 26.0.0.73
;; CPUTYPE = machine type (PDP-11/70, VAX-11/780, FOONLY-F3, C/30, etc.)
;; OPSYS = operating system (UNIX, TOPS20, TENEX, ITS, etc.)
;; PROTOCOLS = transport/service (TCP/TELNET,TCP/FTP, etc.)
;; : (colon) = field delimiter
;; :: (2 colons) = null field
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 -
- University of Utah FAX: +1 801 581 4148 -
- Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB Internet e-mail: beebe(a)math.utah.edu -
- 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe(a)acm.org beebe(a)computer.org -
- Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/ -
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6:27 p.m.
New subject: [TUHS] Pondering the hosts file
On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 at 13:14, Clem Cole <clemc(a)ccc.com> wrote:
The SRI file was different format. There was a tool
that fetched and
converted from the PDP-10 scheme to the UNIX scheme - gethtable(8) or
something like that.
ᐧ
ᐧ
gettable(8) and htable(8):
GETTABLE(8C)
GETTABLE(8C)
NAME
gettable - get NIC format host tables from a host
SYNOPSIS
/etc/gettable host
DESCRIPTION
Gettable is a simple program used to obtain the NIC standard host
tables from a ``nicname'' server. The indicated host is queried for the
tables.
The tables, if retrieved, are placed in the file hosts.txt.
Gettable operates by opening a TCP connection to the port indicated
in the service specification for ``nicname''. A request is then made
for
``ALL'' names and the resultant information is placed in the output
file.
Gettable is best used in conjunction with the htable(8) program
which converts the NIC standard file format to that used by the network
library
lookup routines.
SEE ALSO
intro(3N), htable(8)
BUGS
Should allow requests for only part of the database.
4th Berkeley Distribution 4
March 1983
GETTABLE(8C)
HTABLE(8) System Manager's Manual
HTABLE(8)
NAME
htable - convert NIC standard format host tables
SYNOPSIS
/etc/htable file
DESCRIPTION
Htable is used to convert host files in the format specified in
Inter-
net RFC 810 to the format used by the network library routines.
Three
files are created as a result of running htable: hosts, networks,
and
gateways. The hosts file is used by the gethostent(3N) routines
in
mapping host names to addresses. The networks file is used by the
get-
netent(3N) routines in mapping network names to numbers. The
gateways
file is used by the routing daemon in identifying ``passive''
Internet
gateways; see routed(8C) for an explanation.
If any of the files localhosts, localnetworks, or localgateways
are
present in the current directory, the file's contents is prepended
to
the output file without interpretation. This allows sites to
maintain
local aliases and entries which are not normally present in the
master
database.
Htable is best used in conjunction with the gettable(8C) program
which
retrieves the NIC database from a host.
SEE ALSO
intro(3N), gettable(8C)
BUGS
Does not properly calculate the gateways file.
4th Berkeley Distribution 4 March 1983
HTABLE(8)
-Henry
6:18 p.m.
New subject: [TUHS] Pondering the hosts file
While this is true wrt the history of FreeBSD/Unix, I'm almost positive
that BSD didn't invent it. I'm pretty sure
it was picked up from the
existing host file that was published by sri-nic.arpa before DNS.
Warner
The CSRG history doesn't seem to have saved the full SCCS history of the
hosts manpage, but it must have appeared sometime around the addition of
ARP support to 4.1BSD - it's not in the 4.1C sources without ARP, but it is
in the sources with it. That version does indeed mention its origins:
HOSTS(5) File Formats Manual
HOSTS(5)
NAME
hosts - host name data base
DESCRIPTION
The hosts file contains information regarding the known hosts on
the
DARPA Internet. For each host a single line should be present with
the
following information:
official host name
Internet address
aliases
Items are separated by any number of blanks and/or tab characters.
A
``#'' indicates the beginning of a comment; characters up to the end
of
the line are not interpreted by routines which search the file.
This
file is normally created from the official host data base maintained
at
the Network Information Control Center (NIC), though local changes
may
be required to bring it up to date regarding unofficial aliases
and/or
unknown hosts.
Network addresses are specified in the conventional ``.'' notation
us-
ing the inet_addr() routine from the Internet address manipulation
li-
brary, inet(3). Host names may contain any printable character
other
than a field delimiter, newline, or comment character.
FILES
/etc/hosts
SEE ALSO
gethostent(3N)
BUGS
A name server should be used instead of a static file. A binary
in-
dexed file format should be available for fast access.
15 January 1983
HOSTS(5)
-Henry
6:02 p.m.
Grant, are you asking about a multi-homed host?
IIRC the original BSD code did the first hit and stop, when looking
something up. What we sometimes did was give the host an alias : host-en
for the ethernet and host-pro proteon HW. Host would be on both lines, so
you wanted to make the first 'host' to be the default.
ᐧ
On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 12:13 PM Grant Taylor via COFF <coff(a)minnie.tuhs.org>
wrote:
Hi,
I'm not sure where this message best fits; TUHS, COFF, or Internet
History, so please forgive me if this list is not the best location.
I'm discussing the hosts file with someone and was wondering if there's
any historical documentation around it's format and what should and
should not be entered in the file.
I've read the current man page on Gentoo Linux, but suspect that it's
far from authoritative. I'm hoping that someone can point me to
something more authoritative to the hosts file's format, guidelines
around entering data, and how it's supposed to function.
A couple of sticking points in the other discussion revolve around how
many entries a host is supposed to have in the hosts file and any
ramifications for having a host appear as an alias on multiple lines /
entries. To whit, how correct / incorrect is the following:
192.0.2.1 host.example.net host
127.0.0.1 localhost host.example.net host
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
_______________________________________________
COFF mailing list
COFF(a)minnie.tuhs.org
https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff
9:08 p.m.
On 3/11/21 11:02 AM, Clem Cole wrote:
Grant, are you asking about a multi-homed host?
I had specifically elided multi-homing for simplicity.
IIRC the original BSD code did the first hit and stop,
when looking
something up.
*nod*
That's my understanding.
What we sometimes did was give the host an alias :
host-en for the
ethernet and host-pro proteon HW.
If I understand what you're saying:
192.0.2.1 host.example.net host-en
198.51.100.1 host.example.net host-pro
Host would be on both lines, so you wanted to make the
first 'host'
to be the default.
I guess I shouldn't elide multi-homing and instead address it directly.
Or at least clarify the paradigm.
Should a given host name appear on more than one entry / line in the
hosts file if it's only got one IP (other than 127.0.0.1 / ::1)?
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
1135
days inactive
1135
days old
13 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
Bakul Shah -
Clem Cole -
Grant Taylor -
Henry Bent -
Jaap Akkerhuis -
Nelson H. F. Beebe -
Steffen Nurpmeso -
Warner Losh