[COFF] Re: Fwd: [ih] NYT: Thomas E. Kurtz, a Creator of BASIC Computer Language, Dies at 96

Indeed. The problem is it took a life of its own beyond what really should have been used. When it was the original Dartmouth K&K language I learned in 1967 on DTSS it was much simpler. HP added to it a small amount with the 2100 implementation and the DEC10 even more so, and by the later RSTS implementations DEC expanded it and added way more to it than K&K described in the goals, first papers and book. Although, with care, the original examples I think with run on RSTS. But, in all of those cases there was much more computer behind it and there was some argument the added complexity was worth it to expose “system’s features.” The problem came in that because the core language K&K described was so simple it was easy to implement on 8-bit systems. But by then the RSTS extension had started to become more popular however the 8-bit micros lacked the systems-ness of even something like RSTS. The result of the micro versions of BASIC was Frankenstein’s creature - which was really hard to love unless you knew no better. And here in was the issue, because the micros were inexpensive and they all included a simple BASIC you sort of warped a generation or two without real guidance. And because there was little standardization in the system interface anyway, what you saw was more and more ugliness. By the time the micros grew up enough to support more system features, MS was full bore into trying to own everything so there private extensions became ‘standardize in there world but no where else.” And MS eventually gave away the primary idea behind K&K in the first place - really simple, so any one could use it. Thus make it a good first language. But try running any of the K&K examples from there book (I still have a copy btw) with VBASIC. By then teacher has given up and switched to better teaching languages, al biet, ones that did require a bit more computer system to expose. Clem Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual On Sun, Nov 17, 2024 at 4:33 PM Dan Cross <crossd(a)gmail.com> wrote: