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Re: "Hot Spot" High Performing Centres in Computing

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Dan Cross > This is long, but very interesting: https://spectrum.ieee.org/xerox-parc That is _very_ good, and I too recommend it. Irritatingly, for such an otherwise-excellent piece, it contains two glaring, minor errors: "information-processing techniques office" should be 'Information Processing Techniques Office' (its formal name; it's not a description); "the 1,103 dynamic memory chips used in the MAXC design" - that's the Intel 1103 chip. > Markov's book, "What the Dormouse Said" ... goes into great detail > about the interplay between Engelbart's group at SRI and PARC. It's a > very interesting read; highly recommended. It is a good book; it goes a long way into explaining why the now-dominant form of computer user experience appeared on the West coast, ad not the East. One big gripe about it; it doesn't give enough space to Licklider, who more than anyone had the idea that computers were a tool for _all_ information (for everyone, from all walks of life), not just number crunching (for scientists and engineers). Everyone and everything in Dormouse is a descendant of his. Still, we have Mitchell Waldrop's "Dream Machine", which does an excellent job of telling his story. (Personal note: I am sad and ashamed to admit that for several years I had the office literally right next door next to his - and I had no idea who he was! This is kind of like a young physicist having the office right next door next to Einstein, and not knowing who _he_ was! I can only say that the senior people in my group didn't make much of Lick; which didn't help.) Still, get "Dream Machine". Noel

1 year, 2 months

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Re: "Hot Spot" High Performing Centres in Computing

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Larry McVoy > And the mouse unless my boomer memory fails me. I think it might have; I'm pretty sure the first mice were done by Engelbart's group at ARC (but I'm too lazy to check). ISTR that they were used in the MOAD. PARC's contribution to mice was the first decent mouse. I saw an ARC mouse at MIT (before we got our Altos), and it was both large, and not smooth to use; it was a medium-sized box (still one hand, though) with two large wheels (with axes 90 degrees apart), so moving it sideways, you had to drag the up/down sheel sideways (and vice versa). PARC'S design (the inventor is known; I've forgetten his name) with the large ball bearing, rotation of which was detected by two sensore, was _much_ better, and remained the standard until the invention of the optical mouse (which was superior because the ball mouse picked up dirt, and had to be cleaned out regularly). PARC's other big contribution was the whole network-centric computing model, with servers and workstations (the Alto). Hints of both of those existed before, but PARC's unified implementation of both (and in a way that made them cheap enough to deploy them widely) was a huge jump forward. Although 'personal computers' had a long (if now poorly remembered) history at that point (including the LINC, and ARC's station), the Alto showed what could be done when you added a bit-mapped display to which the CPU had direct access, and deployed a group of them in a network/server environment; having so much computing power available, on an individual basis, that you could 'light your cigar with computes' radcally changed everything. Noel

1 year, 2 months

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late 1990's servers vs R-Pi 5: quantifiable Performance vs Cost improvements?

by steve jenkin

An Old Farts Question, but answers unrestricted :) In the late 1990’s I inherited a web hosting site running a number of 300Mhz SPARC SUNs. Probably 32-bit, didn’t notice then :) Some were multi-CPU’s + asymmetric memory [ non-uniform memory access (CC-NUMA) ] We had RAID-5 on a few, probably a hardware controller with Fibre Channel SCSI disks. LAN ports 100Mbps, IIRC. Don’t think we had 1Gbps switches. Can’t recall how much RAM or the size of the RAID-5 volume. I managed to borrow from SUN a couple of drives for 2-3 months & filled all the drive bays for ‘busy time'. With 300MB drives, at most we had a few GB. Don’t know the cost of the original hardware - high six or seven figures. A single additional board with extra CPU’s & DRAM for one machine was A$250k, IIRC. TB storage & zero ’seek & latency’ with SSD are now cheap and plentiful, even using “All Flash” Enterprise Storage & SAN’s. Storage system performance is now 1000x or more, even for cheap M.2 SSD. Pre-2000, a ‘large’ RAID was GB. Where did all this new ‘important’ data come from? Raw CPU speed was once the Prime System Metric, based on an assumption of ‘balanced’ systems. IO performance and Memory size needed to match the CPU throughput for a desired workload, not be the “Rate Limiting Step”, because CPU’s were very expensive and their capacity couldn’t be ‘wasted’. I looked at specs/ benchmarks of the latest R-Pi 5 and it might be ~10,000x cheaper than the SUN machines while maybe 10x faster. I never knew the webpages/ second my machines provided, I had to focus on Application throughput & optimising that :-/ I was wondering if anyone on-list has tracked the Cost/ Performance of systems over the last 25 years. With Unix / Linux, we really can do “Apples & Apples” comparisons now. I haven’t done the obvious Internet searches, any comments & pointers appreciated. ============ Raspberry Pi 5 revealed, and it should satisfy your need for speed No longer super-cheap, but boasts better graphics and swifter storage <https://www.theregister.com/2023/09/28/raspberry_pi_5_revealed/> ~$150 + PSU & case, cooler. Raspberry Pi 5 | Review, Performance & Benchmarks <https://core-electronics.com.au/guides/raspberry-pi/raspberry-pi-5-review-p…> Benchmark Table <https://core-electronics.com.au/media/wysiwyg/tutorials/Jaryd/pi-les-go/Ben…> [ the IO performance is probably to SD-Card ] 64 bit, 4-core, 2.4Ghz, 1GB / 2GB / 4GB / 8GB DRAM 800MHz VideoCore GPU = 2x 4K displays @ 60Hz single-lane PCI Express 2.0 [ for M.2 SSD ] 2x four-lane 1.5Gbps MIPI transceivers [ camera & display ] 2x USB 3.0 ports, "RP1 chip reportedly allows for simultaneous 5-gigabit throughput on both the USB 3.0s now." 2x USB 2.0 ports, 1x Gigabit Ethernet, 27W USB-C Power + active cooler (fan) ============ -- Steve Jenkin, IT Systems and Design 0412 786 915 (+61 412 786 915) PO Box 38, Kippax ACT 2615, AUSTRALIA mailto:sjenkin@canb.auug.org.au http://members.tip.net.au/~sjenkin

1 year, 2 months

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"Hot Spot" High Performing Centres in Computing

by steve jenkin

Bell Labs Dept 1127 / CSRC qualifies as “Very High Performing” to me (is there a better name?) Before that, John von Neumann and his team were outstanding in the field. DARPA, under Licklider then Bob Taylor & Ivan Sutherland and more people I don’t know, went on to fund game-changing technologies, such TCP/IP, including over Wireless and Satellite links. Engelbart’s Augmentation Research Centre was funded by DARPA, producing NLS, the "oN-Line System”. Taylor founded Xerox PARC, taking many of Engelbart’s team when the ARC closed. PARC invented so many things, it’s hard to list… Ethernet, Laser printers, GUI & Windowing System, Object Oriented (? good ?), what became ’the PC' Evans & Sutherland similarly defined the world of Graphics for many years. MIPS Inc created the first commercial RISC processor with a small team, pioneering using 3rd Party “Fabs”. At 200 Mhz, it was twice the speed of competitors. Seymour Cray and his small team built (with ECL) the fastest computers for a decade. I heard that CDC produced a large, slow Operating System, so Cray went and wrote a better one “in a weekend”. A hardware & software whizz. I’ve not intended to leave any of the "Hot Spots” out. While MIT did produce some good stuff, I don’t see it as “very high performing”. Happy to hear disconfirming opinion. What does this has to do with now? Google, AWS and Space-X have redefined the world of computing / space in the last 10-15 years. They've become High Performing “Hot Spots”, building technology & systems that out-perform everyone else. Again, not intentionally leaving out people, just what I know without deeply researching. ================ Is this a topic that’s been well addressed? If so, sorry for wasting time. Otherwise, would appreicate pointers & comments, especially if anyone has created a ‘definitive’ list, which would imply some criteria for admission. ================ -- Steve Jenkin, IT Systems and Design 0412 786 915 (+61 412 786 915) PO Box 38, Kippax ACT 2615, AUSTRALIA mailto:sjenkin@canb.auug.org.au http://members.tip.net.au/~sjenkin

1 year, 2 months

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Re: Seeking Some Japanese Computing Books

by Rudi Blom

I just realised that in HP-UX there are lots of filesets with various language messages files and manpages (japanese, korean and chinese). Normally I don't install these. Therefore I also have no idea what the format is If you're interested I could install a few and mail you a bundle. Just let me know. Take care, uncle rubl -- The more I learn the better I understand I know nothing.

1 year, 2 months

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Smokin' In the Terminal Room

by segaloco

Subject doesn't roll off the tongue like the song, but hey, I got a random thought today and I'd be interested in experiences. I get where this could be a little...controversial, so no pressure to reply publicly or at all. Was it firmly held lore from the earliest days to keep the air as clean as possible in computer rooms in the earlier decades of computing? What has me asking is I've seen before photos from years past in R&D and laboratory settings where whoever is being photographed is happy dragging away on a cigarette (or...) whilst surrounded by all sorts of tools, maybe chemicals, who knows. It was a simpler time, and rightfully so those sorts of lax attitudes have diminished for the sake of safety. Still I wonder, was the situation the same in computing as photographic evidence has suggested it is in other such technical settings? Did you ever have to deal with a smoked out server room that *wasn't* because of thermal issues with the machinery? I hope this question is fine by the way, it's very not tech focused but I also have a lot of interest in the cultural shifts in our communities over the years. Thanks as always folks for being a part of one of the greatest stories still being told! - Matt G.

1 year, 2 months

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Compilation of Known 3B20 Pictures

by segaloco

Good day folks, I just wanted to share a list of links I compiled together of known 3B20(D|S) photographs from various places: WECo Magazine 1982 Q3 p. 8 displays a technician loading a disk pack with the 3B20S bezel in the foreground: https://archive.org/details/westernelectricmagazine_1982_q3/page/8/mode/2up WECo Magazine 1982 Q3 pp. 24-25 display some promotional meeting photos concerning the 3B20S: https://archive.org/details/westernelectricmagazine_1982_q3/page/24/mode/2up WECo Magazine 1982 Q4 p. 4 has a picture of a WECo magtape reader, presumably on a 3B20: https://archive.org/details/westernelectricmagazine_1982_q4/page/n3/mode/2up WECo Magazine 1982 Q4 p. 5 has a picture of a 3B20S and one disk drive: https://archive.org/details/westernelectricmagazine_1982_q4/page/4/mode/2up WECo Magazine 1983 Q2 p. 28 Figures 1 and 2 display a 5ESS and 3B20S respectively: https://archive.org/details/westernelectricmagazine_1983_q2/page/28/mode/2up WECo Magazine 1983 Q3 pp. 4-5 displays a 5ESS with a few panels open at a low angle: https://archive.org/details/westernelectricmagazine_1983_q3/page/4/mode/2up WECo Magazine 1983 Q3 p. 13 displays a technician swapping out a card as well as a disk pack on a 5ESS: https://archive.org/details/westernelectricmagazine_1983_q3/page/12/mode/2up WECo Magazine 1983 Q3 pp. 22-23 display some folks working on DMERT/3B20D stuff at some VT100s: https://archive.org/details/westernelectricmagazine_1983_q3/page/22/mode/2up And from a Facebook group I came across in a Google image search: 2 3B20S units in a computing center: https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/277168646_10159734053426… A 5ESS showing the 3B20D end of it: https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/270140634_10158822329508… I can't overcome my anti-Facebook-ness to try and get in touch with that group...but it seems like some folks there might appreciate COFF and TUHS if they don't know about them. If you're a member of the Zuckerbook and are so willing, you might consider reaching out to some of those folks with links to the mailing lists. I don't know how etiquette on those sites work tho, so ymmv. That should be all the 3B20 content I've come across the past few months. I've been trying to drum up more photographic evidence as there isn't much. The same can be said for other non-3B2 machines in the 3B line, I only know of a few pictures of a 3B15 and I think one I've ever seen of a 3B5, I wouldn't know another picture of a 3B5 if I did see one. Not a whole lot of computing hardware with that little Bell logo on it, it's nice to see when stuff does turn up. - Matt G.

1 year, 2 months

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Seeking Some Japanese Computing Books

by segaloco

Good morning, I am going to pick up a few Japanese computing books to get more familiar with translating technical literature and figured I'd see if anyone here has any of these before I go buying from randos on eBay (Not sure all of these exist in Japanese): The C Programming Language (Either Edition) The C++ Programming Language Any AT&T/USL System V Docs The UNIX System (Bourne) John Lions's Commentary Any Hardware Docs from Japanese shops (Sony, NEC, Sharp, JVC, etc) that have English counterparts (e.g. MSX architecture docs, PC-*8 hardware stuff) Thanks all! - Matt G. P.S. Even less likely but any of the above in Chinese I would be interested in as well. Many Kanji and Hanzi overlap in meaning so while it may be like trying to read Chaucer with no knowledge of antiquated English, translation between Hanzi and English may help the Kanji situation along too.

1 year, 3 months

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Re: [TUHS] Re: The AWK Programming Language, 2nd Ed.: What's new?

by Anthony Martin

Warren Toomey via TUHS <tuhs(a)tuhs.org> once said: > The history of Unix is not just of the technology, but also of the > people involved, their successes and travails, and the communities > that they built. Mary Ann referenced a book about her life and > journey in her e-mail's .sig. She is a very important figure in the > history of Unix and I think her .sig is entirely relevant to TUHS. Are you fine with everyone advertising whatever views and products they want in their signatures or would I have to be a very important figure? If I want to say, for example, that the vast amount of software related to Unix that came out of Berkeley was so harmful it should have a retroactive Prop 65 label, would that be okay to have in my signature? Cheers, Anthony The vast amount of software related to Unix that came out of Berkeley was so harmful it should have a retroactive Prop 65 label. [Quote from some person completely unrelated to Unix.] [A link to buy my children's picture book about the tenuous connection between Unix and the NATO terror bombing of Yugoslavia, direct from Jeff Beelzebub's bookstore.] End of signature. Sorry Warren, I couldn't help myself. I was "triggered" just like Dan Cross, previously in that thread, who could not stay silent. "Silence is violence, folx." - Sus of size (a.k.a. postmodernist Porky Pig) Sent to COFF as Dan should have done.

1 year, 3 months

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C compiler in 512 bytes

by Warner Losh

This appeared in my news feed and hacker news. https://xorvoid.com/sectorc.html Warner

1 year, 3 months

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