[TUHS] earliest Unix roff

Clem Cole clemc at ccc.com
Wed Sep 18 00:21:20 AEST 2019

Fair enough.  Mei culpa from one of those that was vocal.  That said, maybe
a trick is to stay away from texinfo/info and the man page discussion on
this list since its a hot button that causes much trama for some with a
more traditional UNIX view.

Please don't leave, your voice is important and I generally agree with you
and always like to hear you out.  But even if I do not agree, I still want
to listen.  You have come to your conclusions in a different manner than
some of us, and where each of us puts the MSB tends to color our views.
Diversity of opinion is a good thing.


On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 3:53 AM <arnold at skeeve.com> wrote:

> It is like clockwork.
> Whenever I say something about Texinfo *as a markup language* for use
> in *writing books*, the discussion inevitably degenerates into a hate
> rant against Info and RMS's (failed) attempt to replace man pages.
> Totally missing the point too.
> This is a trend on TUHS.  The same discussions, the same rants, often
> the same misinformation, over and over and over again.
> I start to wonder if I should continue to subscribe.
> Arnold
> Larry McVoy <lm at mcvoy.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 08:10:48AM -0400, Clem Cole wrote:
> > > On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 1:52 AM <arnold at skeeve.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I use the standalone Info reader (named info) if I want to look at
> the
> > > > Info output.
> > > >
> > > Fair enough, but be careful, while I admit I have not looked in a
> while,
> > > info(gnu) relies on emacs keybindings and a number of very emacs'ish
> things.
> > > Every time I have tried to deal with it, I have unprogram my fingers
> and
> > > reset them to emacs.
> > >
> > > If it would have used more(1) [or even less(1)] then I would not be as
> > > annoyed.
> > > Unix had fine tools [man(1), more(1), et al] and rms and friends felt
> the
> > > need to replace them with ITS-like programs.
> >
> > I hate texinfo and friends.  I get why it is better than man, but man was
> > good enough, more than good enough, and the GNU project took everything
> > it could find and destroyed the man pages.
> >
> > If you have something like perl that needs a zillion sub pages, info
> > makes sense.  For just a man page, info is horrible.
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