[TUHS] off-topic list

Grant Taylor gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net
Tue Jun 26 06:47:23 AEST 2018

On 06/25/2018 02:09 PM, Clem Cole wrote:
> Below...


> ​Warning.... there a lot of stuff that is pre-internet in the guts (i.e. 
> was designed during the Arpanet) so IP support got added to it.   And 
> even with the last versions, its missing a lot (i.e. I'm the person that 
> hacked^h^h^h^h^h^hadded the original BSD resolv client code to it one 
> weekend, lord knows how many years ago).   Again this is why QMAIL 
> became the replacement.  Borstien is an amazing coder and I respect him 
> immensely, although his personality leaves a little to be desired...​

I consider myself so advised.

Wait, are you saying that qmail was written as a replacement for PMDF? 
Or that you used qmail as your replacement for PMDF?

> ​Ahem ...   We did it before they did (by a number of year actually).  
>   It was also the mail for CS-NET/PhoneNET, when BBN picked it up.​

I'm sorry, I was not meaning to imply anything other than my ignorance 
of MMDF history.

> ​Mail-11 is DEC's mail standard. And is mostly a protocol spec.


> PMDF was a pseudo open source rewrite of MMDF (from on the mid western 
> universities I believe), that got taken closed and I never knew all of 
> the politics.  Larry M correct me here, he might know some of it, as I'm 
> thinking PMDF came out of Wisconsin originally.  Whoever wrote it, took 
> the CS-Net C MMDF implementation and rewrote it into Pascal for VMS - 
> this was during the height the C vs Pascal war in CS Depts and also the 
> time of the UNIX vs VMS wars.​     The DEC Pascal Compiler was very good 
> and was an excellent teaching compiler.   Paul W might remember the 
> ordering of the releases from the compiler group, but I think VMS Pascal 
> was released before VAX-11C -- which I think played into the MMDF/PMDF 
> thing.   As I recall, VMS Pascal definitely was bundled in the 
> University package and was 'cheaper' if you were willing to run VMS 
> instead of Unix at your University.       Anyway, the folks that did 
> PMDF formed a small firm and sold it for a while.   There was a 
> commercial IP implementation from France call TUV for VMS and IIRC, the 
> TUV folks bought PMDF and whole thing got sold to a lot people and had 
> quite a ride .


> ​I know nothing about that.   I wonder of the Pascal version got 
> reimplemented in Java at some point.  I do not know.  That would not 
> surprise me.​

"In 1999 PMDF was translated from Pascal to C. The C version of PMDF 
became the basis of the Sun Java System Messaging Server of Sun 

I wouldn't bet that (the C version of) PMDF was reimplemented in Java 
just because the name contained Java.  I seem to recall Sun putting Java 
in the name of many products at the time.

> ​That would sound more like it.   Also left and right hands not talking 
> to each other.   Sun had become a large place by that point.​


> ​Sure, but its more work than I want to mess with these days.   Best 
> wishes and have at it 😘​

Fair enough.

Thank you for the history on MMDF / PMDF.  #larningIsFun

Grant. . . .
unix || die

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