[pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver

Ian King iking at microsoft.com
Tue Jan 30 03:08:59 AEST 2001


Warren, I have the DZ-11 docs; I'll scan the relevant sections and mail it
to you.  

-- Ian 

-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au]
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 5:25 PM
To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society
Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver


Hi all,
	I'm working on a new version of my Vtserver, which allows a PDP-11
with no tape drive to boot from a Unix/Linux server (via serial cable) and
install a UNIX. See ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver

At present I'm working on a new version which uses the 2.11BSD boot code
so as to support more disk drives. The work in progress is at:
http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver. At present it's not usable
unless you have a PDP-11/45.

I've got a potential user with an 11/34, two RK05s and a DZ-11. I can't
find any details of DZ-11 here in my peripherals handbooks, and the 2.11
kernel drivers are a bit too complicated to read.

My existing KL-11 driver is below. Can someone come up with a standalone
equivalent for a DZ-11, or point me at some docs?

I'll be away from 1st to 14th Feb, so there may be some delays in
responding.

Thanks all,
	Warren


struct  vtdevice  {
        int     rcsr,rbuf;
        int     tcsr,tbuf;
};

#define NVT     2
struct  vtdevice *VTcsr[NVT + 1] = {
                (struct vtdevice *)0176500,     /* We use VTcsr[0] unit 1 */
                (struct vtdevice *)0,
                (struct vtdevice *)-1
};

/* Get a character, or timeout and return with hitim zero */
char vtgetc()
{   
        register c;
    
        VTcsr[0]->rcsr = 1; hitim=3; lotim=65535;
  
        while ((VTcsr[0]->rcsr&0200)==0) {
           lotim--;
           if (lotim==0) hitim--;
           if (hitim==0) { putchar('t'); return(0); }
        }
        c = VTcsr[0]->rbuf; return(c);
}

vtputc(c)
register c;
{
        register s;

        while((VTcsr[0]->tcsr&0200) == 0) ;
        s = VTcsr[0]->tcsr;
        VTcsr[0]->tcsr = 0; VTcsr[0]->tbuf = c; VTcsr[0]->tcsr = s;
}

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Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
In-Reply-To: <200101301820.KAA24283 at chiton.ucsd.edu> from Carl Lowenstein at
 "Jan 30, 2001 10:20:58 am"
To: Carl Lowenstein <cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu>
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:13:30 +1100 (EST)
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In article by Carl Lowenstein:
> Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major
> file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable
> RK05 image.  Something like 4000 blocks.
> 
>     carl

Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :(
That's the problem.

Cheers,
	Warren

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From: Ian King <iking at microsoft.com>
To: "'Ken Wellsch'" <kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com>,
        Carl Lowenstein
	 <cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu>
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:38:15 -0800
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Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it
wouldn't unzip it.  (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a
transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.)  I've also tried the
"Dennis" images, which are supposedly straight RK05 images; E11 won't boot
'em.  One issue on which I'm not clear: where is the boot address?  Stuff at
loc 0 doesn't look like boot instructions.  

If I could get an image to run in an emulator (as I mentioned, I'm running
E11 from DBit), I'd write some cheesy little loader to bring it down the
serial line (I already have it sketched out); but until I can at least get
one to boot in the emulator, I'm reluctant to spend the hours (at 9600 baud)
to spray it onto a disk.  <sigh>  

Any suggestions you may have would be greatly appreciated.  -- Ian 

-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 10:30 AM
To: Carl Lowenstein
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?


I'll second that.  The V6 tape image I provided to PUPS has the
usual boot blocks at the start of the tape then as I recall three
RJ05 disk images.  Long long ago I think I got folks interested in
using emulators like Bob Supnik's by using the first tape disk image
as the "disk" image for "sim" and booted V6... but it has been more
than 6 years now since I did that and I may be rusty on details.

-- Ken

Carl Lowenstein wrote:
> 
> Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major
> file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable
> RK05 image.  Something like 4000 blocks.
> 
>     carl
> 
>         carl lowenstein         marine physical lab     u.c. san diego
>         {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl                 cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu
>                                                   clowenstein at ucsd.edu
> 
> > From owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 08:17 PST 2001
> > From: Ian King <iking at microsoft.com>
> > To: "'wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au'" <wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au>,
> >         PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
> > Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
> > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800
> >
> > In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a
> > bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both
ways.
> > (I even have some original shipping boxes.)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au]
> > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM
> > To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society
> > Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
> >
> >
> > He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download
> > onto his real disk.
> >
> > Many thanks all!
> >
> >       Warren
> >

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Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
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Hi Ian,

Indeed, looks like there has been some bit rot on the archive... sigh.

Luckily I am a pack rat and have copies of my Waterloo days data.  The
images are all clean there.  Curiously enough I even found the directory
where I ran that simulation (circa Oct/94 I see).  I just rebuilt the
code there and ran it on my NetBSD/i386 system and it boots V6 just fine.

In case you don't read minds, after doing the 'attach ...' then 'boot rk0'
the intuitive V6 boot prompt '@' is where you type 'rkunix' for example B^)

Almost instantly I had a 'login:' prompt, and the image is off the tape
so there is no root password set...

Don't forget to type 'date' when logged in ... it is a hoot to see B^)

Oh heck, never thought to actually try to set the date, post 2000...
maybe better to let it live back in 1975...

I've tar/gzip'ed the bundle.  Do you want me to try and UUencode it
and mail it to you?  It is nearly 1 Mbyte in binary form...

Oh yeah, as Warren mentioned, stock V6 does not run on a '34.  I think
it ran on a '40.  I know it can run on a '34 because in 1980 I started
using UNIX, V6 running on a '34  B^)

Cheers,

-- Ken

Ian King wrote:
> 
> Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it
> wouldn't unzip it.  (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a
> transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.)  I've also tried the
> "Dennis" images, which are supposedly straight RK05 images; E11 won't boot
> 'em.  One issue on which I'm not clear: where is the boot address?  Stuff at
> loc 0 doesn't look like boot instructions.
> 
> If I could get an image to run in an emulator (as I mentioned, I'm running
> E11 from DBit), I'd write some cheesy little loader to bring it down the
> serial line (I already have it sketched out); but until I can at least get
> one to boot in the emulator, I'm reluctant to spend the hours (at 9600 baud)
> to spray it onto a disk.  <sigh>
> 
> Any suggestions you may have would be greatly appreciated.  -- Ian

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From: Carl Lowenstein <cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu>
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To: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
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> From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 14:16 PST 2001
> From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
> Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
> To: Carl Lowenstein <cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu>
> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:13:30 +1100 (EST)
> CC: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> In article by Carl Lowenstein:
> > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major
> > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable
> > RK05 image.  Something like 4000 blocks.
> > 
> >     carl
> 
> Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :(
> That's the problem.
> 
> Cheers,
> 	Warren

Why, said he wonderingly.  Is the 11/34 one of those machines that does
not have a directly addressable PSW at 177776 so it must be done with
MPTS and MFPS instructions?  Thats all I can think of immediately.

Pulling out my handy PDP-11 architecture handbook, I find this to be so.
There are some other differences between 11/34 and 11/40-45 but this
one would be a real show-stopper.

The modifications to 6th Ed. Unix to take care of this would be
concentrated in the save/raise/lower processor priority routines.  Just
offhand I don't think one could make a zero-length binary patch that
would work on the 11/34 and remain 11/40-45 compatible.

I guess I will look at locore.s tonight when I get home.  That must
be the place where such things happen.

I wonder what the RT-11 guys did when they had the same problem.  I
seem to remember something involving creative use of stack pushes and
RTI instructions to set the processor priority.

    carl


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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:33:02 +0000
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To: Mark Green <mark at cs.ualberta.ca>
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Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11 BSD compilation fails
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Mark Green wrote:
> 
> >
> > While tinkering with the date2.c program posted earlier by Alex
> > Chupakhin, which now runs on 2.11 BSD btw, I discovered the following:
> >
> > - 'cc -o date2 date2.c' works fine, producing a 12K binary
> >
> > - a makefile containing this command fails - the compilation starts but
> > fails silently, producing a 2K binary that is not marked executable.
> > The makefile is:
> >
> >    date2: date2.c
> >            cc -o date2 -c date2.c
> Remove the -c flag, it tells the compiler to only compile the program
> and not produce an executable.

Ooops... I must have been up too late when I came up with that one.  

Thanks

Richard

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From: Bill Gunshannon <bill at cs.scranton.edu>
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Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
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On Tue, 30 Jan 2001, Ken Wellsch wrote:

> Don't forget to type 'date' when logged in ... it is a hoot to see B^)
> 
> Oh heck, never thought to actually try to set the date, post 2000...
> maybe better to let it live back in 1975...
> 

I assume it is just like Ultrix-11 was, soooooo
Here's a quick way to get the date right until you get a chance to
install a fixed "date" command.  Yes, it is only the date command
that is not Y2K ready.

First:   Set the date to 9912312359
Second:  wait one minute.  It is now 1 Jan 2000.
Third:   Set the date to 12312359
Fourth:  wait one minute.  It is now 1 Jan 2001.
Fifth:   Set the month, day, hour and minute to the current time.
Voila.  Primitive, but it works.  I guess I could try building the GNU
date command on Ultrix-11 or maybe just get the sources from FreeBSD.

All the best.

bill

-- 
Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
bill at cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton   |
Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   


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From: Ian King <iking at microsoft.com>
To: "'Carl Lowenstein'" <cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu>, wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
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Again, I'd be glad to do things like this, if I could get an image to run on
an emulator -- that's been a goal.  I've tried various 'processors' (in
emulation), but not been successful at booting the Unix kernel.  Can anyone
say, "I booted image X on emulator Y and had a successfully running Unix"?
If so, please please please share your experience -- I haven't been able to
boot anything out of the PUPS archive on the E11 emulator (held out by some
to be the best).  

And, if/when I have success, I promise to share a field report.  :-)  -- Ian


-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Lowenstein [mailto:cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 3:31 PM
To: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?


> From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 14:16 PST 2001
> From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
> Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
> To: Carl Lowenstein <cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu>
> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:13:30 +1100 (EST)
> CC: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> In article by Carl Lowenstein:
> > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major
> > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable
> > RK05 image.  Something like 4000 blocks.
> > 
> >     carl
> 
> Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :(
> That's the problem.
> 
> Cheers,
> 	Warren

Why, said he wonderingly.  Is the 11/34 one of those machines that does
not have a directly addressable PSW at 177776 so it must be done with
MPTS and MFPS instructions?  Thats all I can think of immediately.

Pulling out my handy PDP-11 architecture handbook, I find this to be so.
There are some other differences between 11/34 and 11/40-45 but this
one would be a real show-stopper.

The modifications to 6th Ed. Unix to take care of this would be
concentrated in the save/raise/lower processor priority routines.  Just
offhand I don't think one could make a zero-length binary patch that
would work on the 11/34 and remain 11/40-45 compatible.

I guess I will look at locore.s tonight when I get home.  That must
be the place where such things happen.

I wonder what the RT-11 guys did when they had the same problem.  I
seem to remember something involving creative use of stack pushes and
RTI instructions to set the processor priority.

    carl

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From: Ian King <iking at microsoft.com>
To: "'Ken Wellsch'" <kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com>
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:05:55 -0800
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Ken, if you send it to my personal email account, there's no size
restriction (I run the mail server); it's iking at killthewabbit.org.  I would
greatly appreciate your sending it to me.  BTW, I've been using 1977 (the
year I graduated fron high school) on my PDP-11 under RSX-11; some tools
won't accept the "01" year.  :-)  

Cheers -- isk 

PS: I've hired a lot of Waterloo folks -- smart buggers, the lot of them.
:-)  

-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 3:28 PM
To: Ian King
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?


Hi Ian,

Indeed, looks like there has been some bit rot on the archive... sigh.

Luckily I am a pack rat and have copies of my Waterloo days data.  The
images are all clean there.  Curiously enough I even found the directory
where I ran that simulation (circa Oct/94 I see).  I just rebuilt the
code there and ran it on my NetBSD/i386 system and it boots V6 just fine.

In case you don't read minds, after doing the 'attach ...' then 'boot rk0'
the intuitive V6 boot prompt '@' is where you type 'rkunix' for example B^)

Almost instantly I had a 'login:' prompt, and the image is off the tape
so there is no root password set...

Don't forget to type 'date' when logged in ... it is a hoot to see B^)

Oh heck, never thought to actually try to set the date, post 2000...
maybe better to let it live back in 1975...

I've tar/gzip'ed the bundle.  Do you want me to try and UUencode it
and mail it to you?  It is nearly 1 Mbyte in binary form...

Oh yeah, as Warren mentioned, stock V6 does not run on a '34.  I think
it ran on a '40.  I know it can run on a '34 because in 1980 I started
using UNIX, V6 running on a '34  B^)

Cheers,

-- Ken

Ian King wrote:
> 
> Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it
> wouldn't unzip it.  (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a
> transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.)  I've also tried the
> "Dennis" images, which are supposedly straight RK05 images; E11 won't boot
> 'em.  One issue on which I'm not clear: where is the boot address?  Stuff
at
> loc 0 doesn't look like boot instructions.
> 
> If I could get an image to run in an emulator (as I mentioned, I'm running
> E11 from DBit), I'd write some cheesy little loader to bring it down the
> serial line (I already have it sketched out); but until I can at least get
> one to boot in the emulator, I'm reluctant to spend the hours (at 9600
baud)
> to spray it onto a disk.  <sigh>
> 
> Any suggestions you may have would be greatly appreciated.  -- Ian

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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:20:06 -0500
From: Ken Wellsch <kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com>
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Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
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Ian King wrote:
> 
> Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it
> wouldn't unzip it.  (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a
> transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.)

So going over all the things I can easily do data integrity checks on, I've
run 'gzip -tv' on all the GZip'ed things and found three that are apparently
damaged:

gzip: ./PDP-11/Distributions/dec/Ultrix-3.1/ultrix-3.1-bootape.tar.gz:
              invalid compressed data--crc error
gzip: ./PDP-11/Distributions/research/Ken_Wellsch_v6/v6.tape.gz:
              invalid compressed data--crc error
gzip: ./PDP-11/Distributions/unsw/90/record0.gz:
              invalid compressed data--crc error

I can't comment on the *.Z compressed archives as they do not do any crc.

I will have to peruse my stack of archive CD's made at various stages of
the archive to see if I have the other two (I have a good 'v6.tape.gz' file).

I did not try and run the MD5 list yet.  But this is an example of why I
had been pushing for the use of MD5 for all items in the archive...  B^)

-- Ken

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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:07:09 -0500
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Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
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Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 30 Jan 2001, Ken Wellsch wrote:
> 
> > Don't forget to type 'date' when logged in ... it is a hoot to see B^)
> >
> > Oh heck, never thought to actually try to set the date, post 2000...
> > maybe better to let it live back in 1975...
> 
> I assume it is just like Ultrix-11 was, soooooo
> Here's a quick way to get the date right until you get a chance to
> install a fixed "date" command.  Yes, it is only the date command
> that is not Y2K ready.

No, V6 predates Ultrix-11 by just a bit I believe.

The date setting format on V6 appears to be '1231245999', that is
two digits for: month, day, hour, minute, year.  A trailing 'p' means
the hours are 12 based (and it is PM), otherwise 24 based.

I can confirm as I expected that setting 0131110301 puts me at 1970 B^)

No big deal.  I can see in the 'date' source what it is doing...

Thanks for the 'put it into the year 2001' method!

-- Ken



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