[pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver

Warren Toomey wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au
Tue Jan 30 07:37:01 AEST 2001


In article by Robin Birch:
> Warren,
> Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a
> tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device.  You
> could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more
> complex boot driver in.  If you use the console then that shoud be
> universal across all PDP11s.
> 
> Robin

I had thought of that. I'm not sure I want to write a terminal emulator :)
I guess I should ask those people with tapeless PDP-11s.

If you had a method of booting and installing disk images over a serial
line, would you be happy with a serial line to a `tape server' separate
to your console line, or would you rather have the two combined?

	Warren

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Subject: Re: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver
From: norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca (Norman Wilson)
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Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:12:40 -0500
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I don't have a PDP-11, but I have done work in various ways with
remote-device installs.  If it were me I would prefer to be able
to use a device distinct from the console, for several reasons:
- a separate device might have an input silo (e.g. the DZ11 does);
the console usually doesn't.  A silo offers a little more robustness
and may allow greater speeds.
- it is better to keep the console available as a place for error
messages to show up when things go wrong.
- things are going to go wrong in any case, and I am going to have
to try booting several times.  If I have to get a serial-line switch
or move cables back and forth, that is another thing that can go
wrong, and another thing I can screw up.

On the other hand, if I had the problem I would likely be happy to
get any code that would help, whichever way it worked.  So I also
favour letting the implementor choose.

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From: Ian King <iking at microsoft.com>
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        pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: RE: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver
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That's why I've inquired of Warren about using the DZ-11 as the
pseudo-device.  I also have a console input (DL-11, from memory).  The input
silo is potentially a benefit, but it's not a panacea by any means -- it has
to be handled pretty carefully.  -- isk 

-----Original Message-----
From: norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca [mailto:norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca]
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 2:13 PM
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver


I don't have a PDP-11, but I have done work in various ways with
remote-device installs.  If it were me I would prefer to be able
to use a device distinct from the console, for several reasons:
- a separate device might have an input silo (e.g. the DZ11 does);
the console usually doesn't.  A silo offers a little more robustness
and may allow greater speeds.
- it is better to keep the console available as a place for error
messages to show up when things go wrong.
- things are going to go wrong in any case, and I am going to have
to try booting several times.  If I have to get a serial-line switch
or move cables back and forth, that is another thing that can go
wrong, and another thing I can screw up.

On the other hand, if I had the problem I would likely be happy to
get any code that would help, whichever way it worked.  So I also
favour letting the implementor choose.

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From: Greg Lehey <grog at lemis.com>
To: nanduri shankar <n_shankar_2001 at yahoo.com>
Cc: freebsd-doc at freebsd.org, UNIX Heritage Society <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: [pups] Re: regarding bsd 4.3 for vax machines  documentation
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On Monday, 29 January 2001 at 10:41:28 -0800, nanduri shankar wrote:
> hello sir/madam,
>                   i want to know the information about
> the bsd 4.3 for vax machines .
> let u provide me documentation regarding this topic.
> iam waiting for your earliest reply.

The FreeBSD documentation project doesn't deal with 4.3BSD, nor with
Vaxen.   Check the UNIX Heritage Society at
http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/TUHS for details of 4.3BSD and how you
can get it for the Vax.

Greg
--
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key
See complete headers for address and phone numbers

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Greg Lehey <grog at lemis.com> wrote:

> Check the UNIX Heritage Society at
> http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/TUHS for details of 4.3BSD and how you
> can get it for the Vax.

For VAX 4.3BSD UNIX specifically, check out:

http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Quasijarus/

-- 
Michael Sokolov
Public Service Agent
International Engineering and Science Task Force

1351 VINE AVE APT 27		Phone: +1-714-738-5409
FULLERTON CA 92833-4291 USA	(home office)

E-mail: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP)

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From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-Id: <200101300425.f0U4PIO32651 at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: [pups] Re: new VTserver (was DZ-11 driver)
In-Reply-To: <200101290215.NAA06982 at psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au> from John Holden
 at "Jan 29, 2001 01:15:11 pm"
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:25:17 +1100 (EST)
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In article by Robin Birch:
> Warren,
> Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a
> tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device.  You
> could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more
> complex boot driver in.  If you use the console then that shoud be
> universal across all PDP11s.
> 
> Robin

Done! See http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver and 
http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver/vtserver/vtreadme.html
for details.

At the present I have Ersatz-2.0 running as a PDP-11/34A, one RK05 and
just the console. I have my tape server connected to the serial console
line, and I'm bringing in an RK05 disk image:

Virtual tape server, $Revision: 2.0 $ 
Running command stty -f /dev/ttyid1 9600 cs8 clocal -crtscts

Tape records are:
   0 tinyboot
   1 copy
   2 root.img

Opening port /dev/ttyd1 .... Port open

E11>show cpu
Emulation:  PDP-11/34a, FP11A
  NOASR, NOCCR, NOCDR, NOCHR, NOCMDR, NOCPUERR, NOCSM, NODSPACE, NODUALREGSET,
  NODESTFIRST, EIS, NOFPBACKOUT, FPP, NOHALT4, NOJMPPLUS2, JMP4, NOKTJ11B,
  NOMBR, NOMFPT, NOMMTRAPS, MMU, NOMMU22, NOMR, NOMSEA, NOMSER, MXPS, ODD,
  NOPARCSR, NOPCR, NOPIRQ, PSWIO, NOQBUS, NOSIZE, NOSPL, SR, NOSR1, NOSTACKLIM,
  NOSUPMODE, NOSYSID, NOTSTSET, UNDOAUTO, NOUMAP
Host:  Cyrix 486, NPX
E11>g 70000

Opened tinyboot
 rrrrrrrrrrrrrr EOF

40tinyboot from virtual tape server
Load tape record: 1

Opened copy
 rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrcopy
Infile: vt(0,0,2)
Outfile: rk(0,0,0)

Opened root.img
 rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
100K sent
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

So no need for DZ-11, but many thanks to Norman, John and others who
wrote code for me. I'll probably still try to add DZ-11 support.

Cheers,
	Warren

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Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:43:34 +1100 (EST)
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Now that I (think I) have got a working system of loading a bootable
disk image over a serial line into a PDP-11/34, can someone create
a suitable disk image? I'm away until Feb 14th and won't be able to do it.

The requestor is Ian King <iking at microsoft.com>, who says:

  I've recently acquired a working PDP-11/34, with RK05s.  (I also have some
  Plessey DD 11/80s for it.) My 11/34 is mapped, with 124k
  available; I also have another memory card with 128k on it, and if I can
  ever find any documentation on the Plessey memory cards and the memory
  management switch settings, I may have 252k one of these days.  :-)
  I have only one DL/KL-11, but also a DZ11.

He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download
onto his real disk.

Many thanks all!

	Warren

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Hi,

I have got 2.11 BSD (from the rp_unknown disk) up and working on the
Supnik 2.3+BB1 simulator, configured as follows:

set cpu 22b
set cpu 2048K
at rp0 mydisks/2.11BSD/2.11_rp_unknown
boot rp

While tinkering with the date2.c program posted earlier by Alex
Chupakhin, which now runs on 2.11 BSD btw, I discovered the following:

- 'cc -o date2 date2.c' works fine, producing a 12K binary

- a makefile containing this command fails - the compilation starts but
fails silently, producing a 2K binary that is not marked executable. 
The makefile is:

   date2: date2.c
           cc -o date2 -c date2.c 

- 'make -n | sh' fails in the same way

Is this a known problem that will be fixed by patches (none applied yet
as the simulator is not networked)?  Or do I need to provide more
memory?

Some other info:

# uname -a
2.11BSD whistler-2bsd 2.11BSD 2.11 BSD UNIX #11: Tue Jan 6 16:57:02 MET
1998
     root at pdp11.begemot.com:/usr/src/sys/HIPPON  PDP11

By the way, if anyone else has 2.11 BSD in unpatched state and wants to
set the date to 2001, email me for a copy of the 
updated date2.c program.

Apart from this problem, 2.11BSD is working very nicely - I'm impressed
that such a feature-rich Unix can even be run on a PDP-11!

Cheers,

Richard

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Cc: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
From: Robin Birch <robin at ruffnready.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver
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 <200101292137.f0TLb2d29560 at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
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In message <200101292137.f0TLb2d29560 at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>, Warren
Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> writes
>In article by Robin Birch:
>> Warren,
>> Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a
>> tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device.  You
>> could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more
>> complex boot driver in.  If you use the console then that shoud be
>> universal across all PDP11s.
>> 
>> Robin
>
>I had thought of that. I'm not sure I want to write a terminal emulator :)
>I guess I should ask those people with tapeless PDP-11s.
>
>If you had a method of booting and installing disk images over a serial
>line, would you be happy with a serial line to a `tape server' separate
>to your console line, or would you rather have the two combined?
>
>       Warren
Well, the terminal emulator doesn't have to be very sophisticated as
once the thing was running properly then you would use what ever the PC
system had installed.

The "two separate" would probably be easier to create but it occurs to
me that many PCs only have one serial line and the only serial line that
is common to all 11s is the console therefore only needing a single
driver.

Robin
____________________________________________________________________
Robin Birch     robin at ruffnready.co.uk

M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD     Old computers and radios always welcome

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From: Ian King <iking at microsoft.com>
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Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
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In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a
bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both ways.
(I even have some original shipping boxes.)  

BTW, the mail Warren cites below was sent before I had really dug into my
11/34's manuals; I have 124kW of MOS memory in the machine, and RSX-11M can
use it all in a "mapped" configuration.  Also, if I am going to transfer a
disk image, I have another DL-11 I am going to install to make use of
Warren's VTServer program.  

TIA -- Ian 

-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au]
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM
To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society
Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?


Now that I (think I) have got a working system of loading a bootable
disk image over a serial line into a PDP-11/34, can someone create
a suitable disk image? I'm away until Feb 14th and won't be able to do it.

The requestor is Ian King <iking at microsoft.com>, who says:

  I've recently acquired a working PDP-11/34, with RK05s.  (I also have some
  Plessey DD 11/80s for it.) My 11/34 is mapped, with 124k
  available; I also have another memory card with 128k on it, and if I can
  ever find any documentation on the Plessey memory cards and the memory
  management switch settings, I may have 252k one of these days.  :-)
  I have only one DL/KL-11, but also a DZ11.

He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download
onto his real disk.

Many thanks all!

	Warren

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Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11 BSD compilation fails
In-Reply-To: <3A767367.3B2FDC99 at bigfoot.com> from Richard Donkin at "Jan 30,
 2001 07:55:19 am"
From: Mark Green <mark at cs.ualberta.ca>
To: Richard Donkin <rdonkin at bigfoot.com>
Date:   Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:04:16 -0700 (MST)
CC: PUPS List <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
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> 
> While tinkering with the date2.c program posted earlier by Alex
> Chupakhin, which now runs on 2.11 BSD btw, I discovered the following:
> 
> - 'cc -o date2 date2.c' works fine, producing a 12K binary
> 
> - a makefile containing this command fails - the compilation starts but
> fails silently, producing a 2K binary that is not marked executable. 
> The makefile is:
> 
>    date2: date2.c
>            cc -o date2 -c date2.c 
Remove the -c flag, it tells the compiler to only compile the program
and not produce an executable.

> 
> - 'make -n | sh' fails in the same way
> 


-- 
Dr. Mark Green                                 mark at cs.ualberta.ca
McCalla Professor                              (780) 492-4584
Department of Computing Science                (780) 492-1071 (FAX)
University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada

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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:20:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Carl Lowenstein <cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu>
Message-Id: <200101301820.KAA24283 at chiton.ucsd.edu>
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
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Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major
file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable
RK05 image.  Something like 4000 blocks.

    carl

        carl lowenstein         marine physical lab     u.c. san diego
        {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl                 cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu
                                                  clowenstein at ucsd.edu

> From owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 08:17 PST 2001
> From: Ian King <iking at microsoft.com>
> To: "'wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au'" <wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au>,
>         PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
> Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800
> 
> In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a
> bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both ways.
> (I even have some original shipping boxes.)  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au]
> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM
> To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society
> Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
> 
> 
> He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download
> onto his real disk.
> 
> Many thanks all!
> 
> 	Warren
> 

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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:30:14 -0500
From: Ken Wellsch <kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com>
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To: Carl Lowenstein <cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu>
CC: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
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I'll second that.  The V6 tape image I provided to PUPS has the
usual boot blocks at the start of the tape then as I recall three
RJ05 disk images.  Long long ago I think I got folks interested in
using emulators like Bob Supnik's by using the first tape disk image
as the "disk" image for "sim" and booted V6... but it has been more
than 6 years now since I did that and I may be rusty on details.

-- Ken

Carl Lowenstein wrote:
> 
> Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major
> file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable
> RK05 image.  Something like 4000 blocks.
> 
>     carl
> 
>         carl lowenstein         marine physical lab     u.c. san diego
>         {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl                 cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu
>                                                   clowenstein at ucsd.edu
> 
> > From owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 08:17 PST 2001
> > From: Ian King <iking at microsoft.com>
> > To: "'wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au'" <wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au>,
> >         PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
> > Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
> > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800
> >
> > In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a
> > bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both ways.
> > (I even have some original shipping boxes.)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au]
> > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM
> > To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society
> > Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
> >
> >
> > He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download
> > onto his real disk.
> >
> > Many thanks all!
> >
> >       Warren
> >



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