Where do you sign the SCO License agreement

Greg Lehey grog at lemis.com
Mon Mar 16 11:25:31 AEST 1998


Maybe I'm just being overly pedantic, or maybe I don't understand US
customs that well, but I can't work out where to sign the SCO license
agreement.  Can anybody tell me?

Greg

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From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803160502.QAA02064 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Where do you sign the SCO License agreement
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:02:01 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <19980316115531.52411 at freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Mar 16, 98 11:55:31 am"
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In article by Greg Lehey:
> Maybe I'm just being overly pedantic, or maybe I don't understand US
> customs that well, but I can't work out where to sign the SCO license
> agreement.  Can anybody tell me?

Should I put this in the getlicense web page?

	Warren

F.  The AUTHORIZED COUNTRY for this Agreement shall be ______________________.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the parties have caused this Agreement to be
executed by their duly authorized representatives.

LICENSEE:                               THE SANTA CRUZ OPERATION, INC.

__________________________________      <--- Greg Lehey Mr
Name                   Title                

__________________________________      <--- Your address
Address                                 

__________________________________     
Address                    

__________________________________    
Address                              

__________________________________              
By                                     <---- Ignore, hangover from old
						AT&T licences where
__________________________________		organisational license
Print or Type Name and title 			(named above) is authorised
						by an individual (here)
__________________________________
Phone and FAX, please			<--- Phone, fax, email address

__________________________________
Email address - required


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Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:10:15 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog at lemis.com>
To: wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au, PDP Unix Preservation <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Where do you sign the SCO License agreement
References: <19980316115531.52411 at freebie.lemis.com> <199803160502.QAA02064 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
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On Mon, 16 March 1998 at 16:02:01 +1100, Warren Toomey wrote:
> In article by Greg Lehey:
>> Maybe I'm just being overly pedantic, or maybe I don't understand US
>> customs that well, but I can't work out where to sign the SCO license
>> agreement.  Can anybody tell me?
>
> Should I put this in the getlicense web page?

A good idea, but...

I hate to appear obtuse, but this doesn't tell me either.  Are you
saying I should sign where it says "By"?

Greg

> F.  The AUTHORIZED COUNTRY for this Agreement shall be ______________________.
>
> IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the parties have caused this Agreement to be
> executed by their duly authorized representatives.
>
> LICENSEE:                               THE SANTA CRUZ OPERATION, INC.
>
> __________________________________      <--- Greg Lehey Mr
> Name                   Title
>
> __________________________________      <--- Your address
> Address
>
> __________________________________
> Address
>
> __________________________________
> Address
>
> __________________________________
> By                                     <---- Ignore, hangover from old
> 						AT&T licences where
> __________________________________		organisational license
> Print or Type Name and title 			(named above) is authorised
> 						by an individual (here)
> __________________________________
> Phone and FAX, please			<--- Phone, fax, email address
>
> __________________________________
> Email address - required

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From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803160544.QAA02167 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Where do you sign the SCO License agreement
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:44:09 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <19980316161015.07896 at freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Mar 16, 98 04:10:15 pm"
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In article by Greg Lehey:
> On Mon, 16 March 1998 at 16:02:01 +1100, Warren Toomey wrote:
> > In article by Greg Lehey:
> >> Maybe I'm just being overly pedantic, or maybe I don't understand US
> >> customs that well, but I can't work out where to sign the SCO license
> >> agreement.  Can anybody tell me?
> >
> > Should I put this in the getlicense web page?
> 
> A good idea, but...
> 
> I hate to appear obtuse, but this doesn't tell me either.  Are you
> saying I should sign where it says "By"?

No, just fill in the top section. Leave the `by' section alone, as you
ARE your own representative.

The only time you'd fill out the bottom section is if you were buying
a license for a company, e.g

	Sproggs Inc.
	5 Looney road,
	SPOTSWOLD. NSW. 2001

	by

	Warren Toomey
	etc etc etc.

Hope this helps.

	Warren

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From: Stacy Minkin <stacy at asia.uznet.net>
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Subject: RQDX3 problems
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Hi pdp people!

Few days ago I wrote about my hardware problems and asked
for hardware guru. Now I've solved some of them -
I checked my backplane and it was 18-bits I wired 
insufficient A19-A21 signals and my CPU acessed memory and
now it runs ok. But! I still do not know what happens to
my RQDX3! 
I know that this question has little relation to UNIX 
and apologize for that.

I hardly suspect circuitry fault but may be some
other reasons. It looks like this:
-My RQDX3 is now connected to simple 5-inch floppy drive
when I power up the machine I see no activity on ANY
pin of RQDX3 to RQDX SIG. DIST. 50-pin connector! I mean 
there is no triggering signals hence my floppy 
also does nothing. When I try to execute bootstrap or
simply debug RQDX3 registers from console it looks like this:

RESET
CLR @#1772150
<checking 1772152 - it holds 5500 - kinda normal>
MOV #100000,@#1772152	; controller passes INIT step 1
			; no ints enabled, no vector specified,
			; UDA OWN bit set. Rings are zero length
<checking 1772152 - it holds 10000 - step one passed>
MOV #xxxxxx,@#1772152	; controller passes INIT step 2 
			; specifying low address bits
<checking 1772152 - it holds 20000 or something alike - 
		    no error bit is set - I'm sure- step2 passed>
MOV #0,@#1772152	; controller passes INIT step 3 - specifying
			; high address bits>
<here we can wait for eternity!!!!!!!! Step 3 will never complete>

Does anybody know what does it mean? I also have TMSCP TQK70
controller but no tape drive for it. When I try to run it there 
is absolutely similar situation - I think this happens each time 
[T]MSCP controller tries to powerup without any drives connected to it.
So I'm looking for help from somebody who can give a hint
about which signal should i check to assertain in absence of hardware fault.
I have no drawings for RQDX3 neither user's guide. It can even be caused
by wrong setting of switches/jumpers - I dont know.


Stacy.

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CC: PDP Unix Preservation <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Where do you sign the SCO License agreement
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Greg,

Since none of the responses seem to really answer your question,
here's what I did:

I signed my name on the very first line where it says "Name".
I then printed my name on the line where it says "Print or Type Name".

If this is incorrect, I guess I'll get it back!

Dave

Warren Toomey wrote:
> 
> In article by Greg Lehey:
> > On Mon, 16 March 1998 at 16:02:01 +1100, Warren Toomey wrote:
> > > In article by Greg Lehey:
> > >> Maybe I'm just being overly pedantic, or maybe I don't understand US
> > >> customs that well, but I can't work out where to sign the SCO license
> > >> agreement.  Can anybody tell me?
> > >
> > > Should I put this in the getlicense web page?
> >
> > A good idea, but...
> >
> > I hate to appear obtuse, but this doesn't tell me either.  Are you
> > saying I should sign where it says "By"?
> 
> No, just fill in the top section. Leave the `by' section alone, as you
> ARE your own representative.
> 
> The only time you'd fill out the bottom section is if you were buying
> a license for a company, e.g
> 
>         Sproggs Inc.
>         5 Looney road,
>         SPOTSWOLD. NSW. 2001
> 
>         by
> 
>         Warren Toomey
>         etc etc etc.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
>         Warren

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From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
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Thanks to a member I now have V7 (supnik) Binary on RL02 to try out.

Several questions:

What hardware does it expect (besides RL02)?  This is so I can configure 
the 11/73 or 11/23 as it expects.

When I boot it on the 11/73 (1mb ram, RLV21, RX02, RQDX3(rd52/RX33), 
DLV11j currently) using RT-11 BOOT/FOREIGN I do get a "@" and it's 
not ODT.  What commands do I issues to get going from there?

Allison



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From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
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Subject: Re: V7 startup
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
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In-Reply-To: <199803162245.AA08767 at world.std.com> from Allison J Parent at "Mar 16, 98 05:45:19 pm"
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In article by Allison J Parent:
> 
> Thanks to a member I now have V7 (supnik) Binary on RL02 to try out.
> 
> Several questions:
> 
> What hardware does it expect (besides RL02)?  This is so I can configure 
> the 11/73 or 11/23 as it expects.

Have a look at http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/pupsfaq.html

> When I boot it on the 11/73 (1mb ram, RLV21, RX02, RQDX3(rd52/RX33), 
> DLV11j currently) using RT-11 BOOT/FOREIGN I do get a "@" and it's 
> not ODT.  What commands do I issues to get going from there?

Instructions are in Bob Supnik's emulator readme:

2.1.3 UNIX V7

UNIX V7 is contained on a single RL02 disk image.  To boot UNIX:

        sim> set cpu 18b
        sim> set rl0 RL02
        sim> att rl0 unix_v7_rl.dsk
        sim> boot rl0
        @unix
        login: root
        password: pdp
        # ls -l

    Warren

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Thanks Warren,

<Have a look at http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/pupsfaq.html

I'll go back and reread it.

>>>>><        @unix <<<<<<<

THAT'S what I was trying to remember!

Allison


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Well v7 binary runs seemingly well on my 11/73 with the kitchen sink
(the extra and unusable accouterments).  It doesn't use much though!
The Rl02 disk does have about 5mb space.

One thing I'd like to do is have some additional storage other than the 
one RL02 drive I have.  I figure that could easily be a RX02 but it's not 
obvious how to add that (to V7unix that is).  The RQDX3/RD52 would be 
nice but I'll settle for a RX01/2.  

The other is the date is 1988... month and day are setable but year?

Is there any way to get it to stay in 8/n/1 (my system(s) default) rather 
than 7/e/1.

The last one bugged me some... there is no shutdown!  To kill the system 
all I could do was make sure there weren't any excess processes running 
do a sync and hit restart.  I assume this is ok as I use the same method
for venix on the pro350, so far I haven't mashed that system.

Allison


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From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803170315.OAA00560 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: V7 startup
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 14:15:05 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <199803170305.AA05406 at world.std.com> from Allison J Parent at "Mar 16, 98 10:05:52 pm"
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In article by Allison J Parent:
> One thing I'd like to do is have some additional storage other than the 
> one RL02 drive I have.  I figure that could easily be a RX02 but it's not 
> obvious how to add that (to V7unix that is).  The RQDX3/RD52 would be 
> nice but I'll settle for a RX01/2.  

The kernel you got probably doesn't have much else. I could build another
kernel for you. Once you get the source license, you'll be able to do it
youself!
 
> The other is the date is 1988... month and day are setable but year?

# man date


DATE(1)                                                   DATE(1)

NAME
       date - print and set the date

SYNOPSIS
       date [ yymmddhhmm [ .ss ] ]

DESCRIPTION
       If  no  argument  is  given, the current date and time are
       printed.  If an argument is given,  the  current  date  is
       set.   yy is the last two digits of the year; the first mm
       is the month number; dd is the day number in the month; hh
       is  the hour number (24 hour system); the second mm is the
       minute number; .ss is optional and is  the  seconds. 
 
> Is there any way to get it to stay in 8/n/1 (my system(s) default) rather 
> than 7/e/1.

What serial devices do you have? I think V7 expected hardwired things
like KL-11s.

Anyway, here's some of the stty(1) manual.

SYNOPSIS
       stty [ option ... ]

DESCRIPTION
       Stty sets certain I/O options on the current output termi-
       nal.  With no argument, it reports the current settings of
       the  options.   The  option  strings are selected from the
       following set:

       even    allow even parity
       -even   disallow even parity
       odd     allow odd parity
       -odd    disallow odd parity
       50 75 110 134 150 200 300 600 1200 1800 2400 4800 9600
               exta extb
               Set terminal baud rate to  the  number  given,  if
               possible.   (These are the speeds supported by the
               DH-11 interface).

 
> The last one bugged me some... there is no shutdown!  To kill the system 
> all I could do was make sure there weren't any excess processes running 
> do a sync and hit restart.  I assume this is ok as I use the same method
> for venix on the pro350, so far I haven't mashed that system.

I think that's all you could do.

	Warren

P.S Online mans at:

	http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/manpages.html

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<You might also want to do 
<
<STTY -LCASE
<
<when you get in to be able to use mixed-case.

Your kidding, right? %-|  I would have assumed mixed unless otehrwise 
specified. 

In either case I had it up and running though I think I didn't have 
timesharing going.

Allison


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<The kernel you got probably doesn't have much else. I could build anothe
<kernel for you. Once you get the source license, you'll be able to do it
<youself!

I believe it's the supnick V7 binary.  that should be a known version to 
those that have run the emulator (I haven't).

<       date [ yymmddhhmm [ .ss ] ]

Date wants to see MM/DD HH/MM and that is it.  Anything else causes
error and it asks again.

<What serial devices do you have? I think V7 expected hardwired things
<like KL-11s.

11/73 console DL.  I'll look to see of I can lock the console settings.
I know on the 11/23 that can be done.  Keep in mind I run Q-bus.

<       even    allow even parity
<       -even   disallow even parity
<       odd     allow odd parity
<       -odd    disallow odd parity
<       50 75 110 134 150 200 300 600 1200 1800 2400 4800 9600

No selection of number of data bits??

<	http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/manpages.html

I've been relying on the linux ones and the Ultrix manuals I have.

Allison


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<The kernel you got probably doesn't have much else. I could build anoth
<kernel for you. Once you get the source license, you'll be able to do i
<youself!

The probability source license is currently low, that cost is currently 
out of my reach.  The other problem with only a RL02 I doubt there is 
compile space enough. The need to compile to get a bigger device is 
hampered by the lack of a bigger device.  A built kernal would be 
desireable.  In the mean time I can do a lot of learning off this one.

My wish list is MSCP disks, RL02, RX02, DLV11j, TK50 support and 
networking.  That's likely too much.

I'd be happy if I could mount a RX02 or MSCP disk even if I can't boot 
off it.

That reminds me. Why can't the 11/73 boot the unix RL pack directly from 
ODT/console boot?  It does boot RSTS and RT-11 packs.  the boot block 
munged?

Allison


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From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull)
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        "Re: V7 startup" (Mar 16, 22:05)
References: <199803170305.AA05406 at world.std.com>
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On Mar 16, 22:05, Allison J Parent wrote:
> Subject: Re: V7 startup
>
> Well v7 binary runs seemingly well on my 11/73 with the kitchen sink
> (the extra and unusable accouterments).  It doesn't use much though!
> The Rl02 disk does have about 5mb space.
>
> One thing I'd like to do is have some additional storage other than the
> one RL02 drive I have.  I figure that could easily be a RX02 but it's not
> obvious how to add that (to V7unix that is).  The RQDX3/RD52 would be
> nice but I'll settle for a RX01/2.

I think I have the RX driver somewhere.  Might take a while to find, though.

> The other is the date is 1988... month and day are setable but year?

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but ISTR that the dateset at startup does
just set MM/DD HH/MM and relies on reading the year last written in a file
somewhere.  If you run 'date' as root once the system is up, you can set the
year as well.

> The last one bugged me some... there is no shutdown!  To kill the system
> all I could do was make sure there weren't any excess processes running
> do a sync and hit restart.  I assume this is ok as I use the same method
> for venix on the pro350, so far I haven't mashed that system.

Mine has a script which includes a umount (you won't strictly need that for a
single drive) and a sync or two, and a little message.  It might have a 'kill
-1 1' to take it to single-user mode.  Other than that, just halt it after a
sync.



-- 

Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Dept. of Computer Science
						University of York

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<Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but ISTR that the dateset at startup 
<just set MM/DD HH/MM and relies on reading the year last written in a fil
<somewhere.  If you run 'date' as root once the system is up, you can set 
<year as well.

You are correct. I works.

Now I have four systems running some form unix (Linux, Venix, Ultrix, and
V7) and their resemblence at the user level is good but at the sysadmin 
they might as well be from different worlds.  Granted, they are different 
platforms.

Allison


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From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803172059.HAA01365 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Sunchip package [was Assember in C?]
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 07:59:03 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <199803171500.KAA03862 at link.link-systems.com> from Ken Wellsch at "Mar 17, 98 10:00:36 am"
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In article by Ken Wellsch:
	[ Ken confirms that the Xinu distribution for the PDP-11 includes
	  the sunchip package, which is a C compiler and assembler, all
	  written in C ]

> Chip is the "Cornell Hypothetical Instructional Processor."  It has a
> PDP11-like architecture and supports virtual memory.
> description can be found in the technical report:
> 
> To run the simulator for this machine, you need a 4.1bsd (or newer) Unix
> system. The distribution also contains a development environment for CHIP
> containing a C compiler, assembler, loader and various other tools.  To
> run the development software, you currently need Digital Equipment Corp.
> VAX computer.  However, with minimal effort, all of this software should
> be able to run on any host with UNIX.
> 
> 	[...]
> 
> ----------------------------------- end of README --------------------
> 
> P.S.  As I suspected and feared,
> 
> 	% diff -r Trees/V7/usr/src/cmd/c Xinu/src/cmd/cc11
> 
> indicates the C compiler provided in all these archives (Xinu,
> CHIP, sunCHIP) are directly derived from the V6/V7 compiler.

So is the DECUS C compiler, I hear. Is there any native C compiler
for the PDP-11 which isn't derived from V6/V7?

	Warren

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Message-Id: <199803172139.IAA01634 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Sunchip compiler -- how to get it.
To: Milo.Velimirovic at uwlax.edu
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 08:39:18 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
In-Reply-To: <9803172136.AA03640 at toes.its.uwlax.edu> from Milo Velimirovic at "Mar 17, 98 03:36:20 pm"
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In article by Milo Velimirovic:
> Postscript to previous note,
> 
> Where might I obtain the sunCHIP C compiler for comparison purposes?

You need to fetch the Xinu distribution. I haven't got time to unpack the
compiler sections right now, but you can get the whole tarball at

ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/incoming/DISTR.lsi.tar.gz

	Warren

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From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803172241.JAA01741 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Real Origin of the DECUS C Compiler?
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 09:41:55 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <199803172238.RAA24010 at link.link-systems.com> from Ken Wellsch at "Mar 17, 98 05:38:12 pm"
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In article by Ken Wellsch:
> I wasn't aware the DECUS C compiler (written in assembler) took anything
> from V6 and/or V7 but I may well be wrong.  The DECUS C stuff had a
> special interest to me back in the Waterloo days because I believe
> a former U of Waterloo person wrote it long ago...

Hmm, that's what I'd heard. Perhaps the person who told me this was wrong.
Can anybody tell us the correct origins of the DECUS C compiler?

	Warren

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From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803180122.MAA02264 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: T-shirt for SCO Unix Licenses
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 12:22:59 +1100 (EST)
Reply-To: wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au
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I had this idea for a t-shirt to celebrate the release of the SCO PDP-11
licenses. The front says:

			   I am
			  LEGALLY
			CONTAMINATED
			  by UNIX

The back has as much kernel source code as you can print on a t-shirt.
Near the middle is the comment /* You are not expected to understand this */

Sound good?

	Warren

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Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 12:17:42 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog at lemis.com>
To: wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au, PDP Unix Preservation <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: T-shirt for SCO Unix Licenses
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On Wed, 18 March 1998 at 12:22:59 +1100, Warren Toomey wrote:
> I had this idea for a t-shirt to celebrate the release of the SCO PDP-11
> licenses. The front says:
>
> 			   I am
> 			  LEGALLY
> 			CONTAMINATED
> 			  by UNIX

It's a nice start, but it doesn't really demonstrate the historical nature.

> The back has as much kernel source code as you can print on a t-shirt.
> Near the middle is the comment /* You are not expected to understand this */

That sounds good.

Greg

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From: "emanuel stiebler" <emu at ecubics.com>
To: <wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au>, "PDP Unix Preservation" <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: T-shirt for SCO Unix Licenses
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 19:33:46 -0700
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Hi Warren ...

----------
> From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
> To: PDP Unix Preservation <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
> Subject: T-shirt for SCO Unix Licenses
> Date: Tuesday, March 17, 1998 6:22 PM
> 
> I had this idea for a t-shirt to celebrate the release of the SCO PDP-11
> licenses. The front says:
> 
> 			   I am
> 			  LEGALLY
> 			CONTAMINATED
> 			  by UNIX
> 
> The back has as much kernel source code as you can print on a t-shirt.
> Near the middle is the comment /* You are not expected to understand this
*/

Do i need the SCO source license for this t-shirt ???? ;-))))


> 
> Sound good?
> 
> 

yes 

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From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803180242.NAA02386 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: T-shirt for SCO Unix Licenses
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 13:42:38 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <19980318022245.AAA19033 at 1Cust202.tnt13.dfw5.da.uu.net> from emanuel stiebler at "Mar 17, 98 07:33:46 pm"
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> > I had this idea for a t-shirt to celebrate the release of the SCO PDP-11
> > licenses. The front says:
> > 
> > 			   I am
> > 			  LEGALLY
> > 			CONTAMINATED
> > 			  by UNIX
> > 
> > The back has as much kernel source code as you can print on a t-shirt.
> > In the middle is the comment /* You are not expected to understand this */
> 
> Do i need the SCO source license for this t-shirt ???? ;-))))

Yes, of course you will. You will also have to kill anybody who attempts
to read the back.

Greg Lehey also commented:

> It's a nice start, but it doesn't really demonstrate the historical nature.

Hmm, how can we rectify this?

How about a list of versions covered by the SCO License, arranged randomly
around the `I am LEGALLY CONTAMINATED by Unix' on the front?

	Warren

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Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:58:21 +0800 (SGT)
From: Joerg Micheel <joerg at krdl.org.sg>
Message-Id: <199803180258.KAA02180 at iti.gov.sg>
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Cc: brandt at fokus.gmd.de
Subject: Re:  Real Origin of the DECUS C Compiler?
Reply-To: joerg at begemot.org
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# In article by Ken Wellsch:
# > I wasn't aware the DECUS C compiler (written in assembler) took anything
# > from V6 and/or V7 but I may well be wrong.  The DECUS C stuff had a
# > special interest to me back in the Waterloo days because I believe
# > a former U of Waterloo person wrote it long ago...
# 
# Hmm, that's what I'd heard. Perhaps the person who told me this was wrong.
# Can anybody tell us the correct origins of the DECUS C compiler?

One thing I can tell for sure: the DECUS C Compiler and the K&R CC are
completely different in their origins. I'm about 90% sure the DECUS XCC
is written in MACRO-11.

The reason I'm so sure is because we were looking at a suitable C compiler
to run on our 11/34 back in 1989 and we first mungled with the DECUS XCC.
But this one had several deficiencies, among them I remember lack of blocks
within functions, local variable initialization, difficulties with typedefs/structs.
Maybe, Harti could tell more.

We were looking into Johnson's pcc, but this one turned out to be a too big
piece of work and to slow to run on our 128 KWord machine.

Harti tried to port the Whitesmith CC from RT11, and it ran, but there were
deficiencies with the RT emulation, so we dropped that.

Finally, we took the K&R UNIX CC and reworked it so that it would pass the
DECUS XCC to produce the stage one. We wrote our own unix assembler supporting
the RSX object file format from scratch. Later, we recompiled the K&R CC on
RSX with itself. This system became our workhorse for the next 2 years, the
compiler is still amazingly fast, both in terms of runtime and the code being
produced. (Quoted: Harti)

So here are the 4 different original sources of C compilers for the 11, though,
admittedly, 2 of them would run on DEC's original OS, not on UNIX, which I guess,
makes them somewhat irrelevant to PUPS. Am I right here ? (Where do we draw the
boundary ?)

	Joerg

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Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 11:00:59 +0800 (SGT)
From: Joerg Micheel <joerg at krdl.org.sg>
Message-Id: <199803180300.LAA02265 at iti.gov.sg>
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Cc: brandt at fokus.gmd.de
Subject: Re: T-shirt for SCO Unix Licenses
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Warren writes:

# I had this idea for a t-shirt to celebrate the release of the SCO PDP-11
# licenses. The front says:
# 
#                            I am
#                           LEGALLY
#                         CONTAMINATED
#                           by UNIX
# 
# The back has as much kernel source code as you can print on a t-shirt.
# Near the middle is the comment /* You are not expected to understand this */

Hey, hey! Gotta make a reference to the original artwork! :-)

	Joerg

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From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803180313.OAA02583 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: T-shirt for SCO Unix Licenses
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 14:13:09 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <199803180300.LAA02265 at iti.gov.sg> from Joerg Micheel at "Mar 18, 98 11:00:59 am"
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In article by Joerg Micheel:
> Warren writes:
> 
> # I had this idea for a t-shirt to celebrate the release of the SCO PDP-11
> # licenses. The front says:
> # 
> #                            I am
> #                           LEGALLY
> #                         CONTAMINATED
> #                           by UNIX
> # 
> # The back has as much kernel source code as you can print on a t-shirt.
> # Near the middle is the comment /* You are not expected to understand this */
> 
> Hey, hey! Gotta make a reference to the original artwork! :-)
> 
> 	Joerg

I should say (and Joerg reminds me) that he & Harti sent me a t-shirt
a couple of years ago with a copy of boot/login sequence of V7 on the
front, and the section of the V6 kernel with the comment above on the
back. I wear it quite a bit, and my fiancee likes it too, but probably
for other reasons.

Thanks Joerg!

	Warren

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Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 11:40:24 +0800 (SGT)
From: Joerg Micheel <joerg at krdl.org.sg>
Message-Id: <199803180340.LAA04283 at iti.gov.sg>
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: T-shirt for SCO Unix Licenses
Reply-To: joerg at begemot.org
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# > # I had this idea for a t-shirt to celebrate the release of the SCO PDP-11
# > # licenses. The front says:
# > # 
# > #                            I am
# > #                           LEGALLY
# > #                         CONTAMINATED
# > #                           by UNIX
# > # 
# > # The back has as much kernel source code as you can print on a t-shirt.
# > # Near the middle is the comment /* You are not expected to understand this */
# > 
# > Hey, hey! Gotta make a reference to the original artwork! :-)
# > 
# I should say (and Joerg reminds me) that he & Harti sent me a t-shirt
# a couple of years ago with a copy of boot/login sequence of V7 on the
# front, and the section of the V6 kernel with the comment above on the
# back. I wear it quite a bit, and my fiancee likes it too, but probably
# for other reasons.

The /* You are not expected to understand this */ is also on the second
page of Peter Salus' A Quater Century of UNIX, explaining a lot of folklore
behind the UNIX history, including things like "a tape was found on the
street to contain ...".

The "contamination" term is (as far as I can tell) originated at Berkeley.
When USL sued UCB for violating AT&T UNIX copyrights, it became apparent,
that anyone ever having had a look at the original sources would be "infected"
and be disallowed to distribute code that vaguely resembles anything in UNIX.

Kirk McKusick then showed up with "Mentally contaminated" stickers for everyone
attending the 4.4BSD Kernel Internals course at the Winter 1993 USENIX
Conference, since he would present us - guess, what - source code! (of 4.4BSD)

I still have the sticker somewhere in my collection.

	Joerg

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From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
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Subject: Mental contamination (was t-shirts)
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 15:07:23 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <199803180340.LAA04283 at iti.gov.sg> from Joerg Micheel at "Mar 18, 98 11:40:24 am"
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In article by Joerg Micheel:
> The /* You are not expected to understand this */ is also on the second
> page of Peter Salus' A Quater Century of UNIX, explaining a lot of folklore
> behind the UNIX history, including things like "a tape was found on the
> street to contain ...".

Yes, I'd love to lay my hands on the `50 bugs' tape. For those who don't
have Peter Salus' book (get out there & buy it!), this tape had fixes to
V6, but the lawyers prevented Bell Labs from distributing it. So, someone
`found' it lying in the street and that's how the patches found their way
out of the Labs.

>The "contamination" term is (as far as I can tell) originated at Berkeley.
>Kirk McKusick showed up with "Mentally contaminated" stickers for everyone
>attending the 4.4BSD Kernel Internals course at the Winter 1993 USENIX
>Conference, since he would present us - guess, what - source code! (of 4.4BSD)
> 
> I still have the sticker somewhere in my collection.

I got one of the `Free the Berkeley 4.4' t-shirts. Good stuff.

Kirk's the guy who is working on making the 4.xBSD releases available on CD.
Please don't hassle him about it; I'll do that 8-)

I've informed him that the SCO license covers 32V. Therefore, a lot of
people will soon become eligible to receive 4.xBSD.

	Warren

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From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
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That reminds me. Why can't the 11/73 boot the unix RL pack directly from
console boot dialog?   The system boots RSTS and RT-11 packs.  Is the boot 
block munged/missing?  I might add it boots fine using boot/foreign from 
rt11.

It's a curiousity as having RT on floppy or HD is not a big thing for me.
But if it can be fixed that would be an improvement.

Allison



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Subject: Re: V7 startup
To: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
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> That reminds me. Why can't the 11/73 boot the unix RL pack directly from
> console boot dialog?   The system boots RSTS and RT-11 packs.  Is the boot 
> block munged/missing?  I might add it boots fine using boot/foreign from 
> rt11.

The 11/73 firmware bootstrap expects the boot block to conform to certain
standards specified by DEC in the early/mid-80's.  In particular, the
bootstrap must begin with a NOP, but there are some other requirements
I don't recall at the moment.

The toggle-in bootstraps that DEC supplied didn't do any such checks (who'd
want to toggle tha check in everytime, anyway?), they just read block 0 to
location 0 and jump to it (well, some also assume things about the SP
going somewhere reasonable, and sometimes certain register locations set
to certain things.)  And RT-11's BOOT/FOR doesn't make any such checks,
either.

> It's a curiousity as having RT on floppy or HD is not a big thing for me.
> But if it can be fixed that would be an improvement.

You can either rewrite the 11/73 firmware to not do the check, or you can
rewrite the V7 boot block so it conforms to DEC's standard.  The RL02
is a particularly stupid device and requires an inordinately large bootstrap,
so there may not be a lot of free room in the V7 boot block.  You can also
stick a "toggle-in" RL02 bootstrap into RAM via ODT and execute that.  But
I've decded that for me, the solution of RT's BOOT/FOR is the best, just
as you seem to have :-).

Tim. (shoppa at triumf.ca)

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From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803190227.NAA04067 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: What's TENIX??
To: haba at pdc.kth.se (Harald Barth)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:27:07 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
In-Reply-To: <199803190143.CAA28649 at pancake.pdc.kth.se> from Harald Barth at "Mar 19, 98 02:43:13 am"
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In article by Harald Barth:
> One PDP-11 I have (and don't quite understand the hardware of) calls itself 
> Tektronix 8562. In that box (43x60x30cm) you find
>    LSI-11/73	(only part made by DIGITAL)
>    Controller with 
> 	   8'' floppy
> 	   40Mb MFM disk with TENIX (binary of some kind of V7 Unix)
>    Controller with
> 	   10 ttys
 
Hmm, I haven't heard of Tenix before. I might punt this onto the
mailing list to see if anybody can identify it.

Any ideas, people??
 
	Warren

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Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 22:40:55 -0500
From: "Sheila H.//Elwood Blues" <shsrms at erols.com>
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CC: Harald Barth <haba at pdc.kth.se>,
        PDP Unix Preservation <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: What's TENIX??
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Warren Toomey wrote:
> 
> In article by Harald Barth:
> > One PDP-11 I have (and don't quite understand the hardware of) calls itself
> > Tektronix 8562. In that box (43x60x30cm) you find
> >    LSI-11/73  (only part made by DIGITAL)
> >    Controller with
> >          8'' floppy
> >          40Mb MFM disk with TENIX (binary of some kind of V7 Unix)
> >    Controller with
> >          10 ttys
> 
> Hmm, I haven't heard of Tenix before. I might punt this onto the
> mailing list to see if anybody can identify it.
> 
> Any ideas, people??
> 
>         Warren
Tenex was a PDP10 (aka DECSystem 10/20) operating system.
Some 10s had 11s as consoles.
bob

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Subject: What's TNIX (Was: What's TENIX??)
From: Harald Barth <haba at pdc.kth.se>
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 18 Mar 1998 22:40:55 -0500"
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Hi,

I wrote to Warren:
> > > One PDP-11 I have (and don't quite understand the hardware of) calls itself
> > > Tektronix 8562. In that box (43x60x30cm) you find
> > >    LSI-11/73  (only part made by DIGITAL)
> > >    Controller with
> > >          8'' floppy
> > >          40Mb MFM disk with TENIX (binary of some kind of V7 Unix)
> > >    Controller with
> > >          10 ttys

Warren wrote:
> > Hmm, I haven't heard of Tenix before. I might punt this onto the
> > mailing list to see if anybody can identify it.

shsrms at erols.com wrote:
> Tenex was a PDP10 (aka DECSystem 10/20) operating system.
> Some 10s had 11s as consoles.

The Tektronix manuals say "Tektronix Unix" and "TNIX". Looks like I've
to boot the box and have a closer look at the actual software. I'm
quite sure that it is some kind of v7. Unfortunately, it's just
binaries. I don't think this should be confused with Tenex and/or
PDP10s which had PDP11s and PDP8s as I/O processors in different
places.

Harald.

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Cc: bygg at sunet.se, thn at stacken.kth.se, haba at pdc.kth.se
Subject: Two different 2.11?
From: Harald Barth <haba at pdc.kth.se>
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Started to get 2.11BSD working on emulator and 11/70. So far:

Started emulator taken from:
	ftp://haba@minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/Boot_Images/2.11_on_rl02/

Made kernel on emulator which supports the actual hardware:
	DELUA at non standard addr, RA81, RL02

Moved boot RL02 to 11/70 with RSTS/E

Made bootable RA81 on 11/70

Untar:ed usr from

ftp://haba@minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/Distributions/ucb/2.11BSD/file6.tar.gz

....And now the binaries from that tar file crash with "unknown system
call" However, the binaries distributed in the disk images work. Any
clues?

Harald.



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Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 20:23:15 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms at moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <199803220423.UAA08735 at moe.2bsd.com>
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Two different 2.11?
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Greetings -

	No, there is only 1 2.11BSD (in the sense that there are NOT 
	competing versions or distributions).

	What happened I believe is that the Boot_Images/2.11_on_rl02 is older
	than the files in Distributions/ucb/2.11BSD.

	I have not looked at the Boot_Images/2.11_on_rl02 files to determine
	when they were created (what patch level, etc.).  On your RL02 system
	what do the first two or three lines of /VERSION?

	Anyhow, between the time that the 2.11_on_rl02 images were created
	(I did not create them) and December-1997/January-1998 several new
	system calls were created _AND_ the entire system was recompiled
	and relinked.  That is why you can NOT use binaries from the
	Distributions/ucb/2.11BSD with earlier kernels.  There is UPWARD
	compatibility (old binaries can run on new kernels) but not backwards
	compatibility.

	What you need to do is build a 'tape' (using 'makesimtape' if you
	need to use Bob's emulator) from ALL of the files in Distributions/ucb/
	2.11BSD.

	Steven Schultz
	sms at moe.2bsd.com

> From: Harald Barth <haba at pdc.kth.se>
> 
> Started to get 2.11BSD working on emulator and 11/70. So far:
> 
> Started emulator taken from:
> 	ftp://haba@minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/Boot_Images/2.11_on_rl02/
> 
> Made kernel on emulator which supports the actual hardware:
> 	DELUA at non standard addr, RA81, RL02
> 
> Moved boot RL02 to 11/70 with RSTS/E
> 
> Made bootable RA81 on 11/70
> 
> Untar:ed usr from
> 
> ftp://haba@minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/Distributions/ucb/2.11BSD/file6.tar.gz
> 
> ....And now the binaries from that tar file crash with "unknown system
> call" However, the binaries distributed in the disk images work. Any
> clues?
> 
> Harald.
> 
> 
> 


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From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803222155.IAA08277 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: SCO processing the new licenses
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 08:55:25 +1100 (EST)
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Hi all,
	Dion at SCO writes today:

We have about a dozen licenses here, all paid up and signed off.

So you should start receiving your PDP Unix licenses soon. He didn't say who
the first dozen were.

Cheers all,

	Warren

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From: "Ed G." <edgee at cyberpass.net>
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Subject: Building sim tapes
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> 	What you need to do is build a 'tape' (using 'makesimtape' if you
> 	need to use Bob's emulator) from ALL of the files in Distributions/ucb/
> 	2.11BSD.

I've looked everywhere I can think of on the PUPS site, but couldn't
find 'makesimtape'.  I couldn't find it among the source of Bob's
emulator.  Where can I get a copy of this program? 

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From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
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Subject: Re: Building sim tapes
To: edgee at cyberpass.net
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In-Reply-To: <199803230302.WAA21783 at renoir.op.net> from "Ed G." at "Mar 22, 98 10:02:10 pm"
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In article by Ed G.:
> > 	What you need to do is build a 'tape' (using 'makesimtape' if you
> > 	need to use Bob's emulator) from ALL of the files in Distributions/ucb/
> > 	2.11BSD.
> 
> I've looked everywhere I can think of on the PUPS site, but couldn't
> find 'makesimtape'.  I couldn't find it among the source of Bob's
> emulator.  Where can I get a copy of this program? 

I don't think Bob's latest emulator has got this. I've hacked at another
program to do this, and I'll make it available tomorrow.

Bob has asked me to submit this to him for inclusion in his simulator.

	Warren

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Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 20:38:48 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms at moe.2bsd.com>
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Subject: Re: Building sim tapes
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> From: "Ed G." <edgee at cyberpass.net>
> 
> > 	What you need to do is build a 'tape' (using 'makesimtape' if you
> > 	need to use Bob's emulator) from ALL of the files in Distributions/ucb/
> 
> I've looked everywhere I can think of on the PUPS site, but couldn't
> find 'makesimtape'.  I couldn't find it among the source of Bob's
> emulator.  Where can I get a copy of this program? 

	It's in /usr/src/sys/pdpstand.  Look in file7.tar.gz from the 2.11 part
	of the Distributions and it should be somewhere in there.

	makesimtape is a hacked up version of 'maketape', the syntax and data
	file are the same so if you know how to use 'maketape' to create
	bootable tapes you're all set.

	The program is short enough I'll include it here.  It should compile
	and run with minimal tweeking on any 'BSD'ish UNIX system.

	Steven
-----------------------
/*
 *	@(#)makesimtape.c	2.0 (2.11BSD) 1997/8/7
 *		Hacked 'maketape.c' to write a file in a format suitable for
 *		use with Bob Supnik's PDP-11 simulator (V2.3) emulated tape 
 *		driver.
 *
 * 	NOTE: a PDP-11 has to flip the shorts within the long when writing out
 *	      the record size.  Seems a PDP-11 is neither a little-endian
 *	      machine nor a big-endian one.
 */

#include <stdio.h>
#include <errno.h>
#include <fcntl.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <sys/types.h>
#include <sys/stat.h>
#include <sys/uio.h>

#define MAXB 30

	char	buf[MAXB * 512];
	char	name[50];
	long	recsz, flipped, trl();
	int	blksz;
	int	mt, fd, cnt;
	struct	iovec	iovec[3];
	struct	iovec	tmark[2];
	void	usage();

main(argc, argv)
	int argc;
	char *argv[];
	{
	int i, j = 0, k = 0, zero = 0;
	register char	*outfile = NULL, *infile = NULL;
	FILE *mf;
	struct	stat	st;

	while	((i = getopt(argc, argv, "i:o:")) != EOF)
		{
		switch	(i)
			{
			case	'o':
				outfile = optarg;
				break;
			case	'i':
				infile = optarg;
				break;
			default:
				usage();
				/* NOTREACHED */
			}
		}
	if	(!outfile || !infile)
		usage();
		/* NOTREACHED */
/*
 * Stat the outfile and make sure it either 1) Does not exist, or
 * 2) Exists but is a regular file.
*/
	if	(stat(outfile, &st) != -1 && !(S_ISREG(st.st_mode)))
		errx(1, "outfile must either not exist or be a regular file");
		/* NOTREACHED */

	mt = open(outfile, O_WRONLY|O_CREAT|O_TRUNC, 0600);
	if	(mt < 0)
		err(1, "Can not create %s", outfile);
		/* NOTREACHED */

	mf = fopen(infile, "r");
	if	(!mf)
		err(1, "Can not open %s", infile);
		/* NOTREACHED*/

	tmark[0].iov_len = sizeof (long);
	tmark[0].iov_base = (char *)&zero;

	while	(1)
		{
		if	((i = fscanf(mf, "%s %d", name, &blksz))== EOF)
			exit(0);
		if	(i != 2) {
			fprintf(stderr,"Help! Scanf didn't read 2 things (%d)\n", i);
			exit(1);
			}
		if	(blksz <= 0 || blksz > MAXB)
			{
			fprintf(stderr, "Block size %u is invalid\n", blksz);
			exit(1);
			}
		recsz = blksz * 512;	/* convert to bytes */
		iovec[0].iov_len = sizeof (recsz);
#ifdef	pdp11
		iovec[0].iov_base = (char *)&flipped;
#else
		iovec[0].iov_base = (char *)&recsz;
#endif
		iovec[1].iov_len = (int)recsz;
		iovec[1].iov_base = buf;
		iovec[2].iov_len =  iovec[0].iov_len;
		iovec[2].iov_base = iovec[0].iov_base;

		if	(strcmp(name, "*") == 0)
			{
			if	(writev(mt, tmark, 1) < 0)
				warn(1, "writev of pseudo tapemark failed");
			k++;
			continue;
			}
		fd = open(name, 0);
		if	(fd < 0)
			err(1, "Can't open %s for reading", name);
			/* NOTREACHED */
		printf("%s: block %d, file %d\n", name, j, k);

		/*
		 * we pad the last record with nulls
		 * (instead of the bell std. of padding with trash).
		 * this allows you to access text files on the
		 * tape without garbage at the end of the file.
		 * (note that there is no record length associated
		 *  with tape files)
		 */

		while	((cnt=read(fd, buf, (int)recsz)) == (int)recsz)
			{
			j++;
#ifdef	pdp11
			flipped = trl(recsz);
#endif
			if	(writev(mt, iovec, 3) < 0)
				err(1, "writev #1");
				/* NOTREACHED */
			}
		if	(cnt > 0)
			{
			j++;
			bzero(buf + cnt, (int)recsz - cnt);
#ifdef	pdp11
			flipped = trl(recsz);
#endif
			if	(writev(mt, iovec, 3) < 0)
				err(1, "writev #2");
				/* NOTREACHED */
			}
		close(fd);
		}
/*
 * Write two tape marks to simulate EOT
*/
	writev(mt, tmark, 1);
	writev(mt, tmark, 1);
	}

long
trl(l)
	long	l;
	{
	union	{
		long	l;
		short	s[2];
		} foo;
	register short	x;

	foo.l = l;
	x = foo.s[0];
	foo.s[0] = foo.s[1];
	foo.s[1] = x;
	return(foo.l);
	}

void
usage()
	{
	fprintf(stderr, "usage: makesimtape -o outfilefile -i inputfile\n");
	exit(1);
	}


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From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803230500.QAA09569 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Where ISN'T the PUPS Archive (was building sim tapes)
To: sms at moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 16:00:45 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <199803230438.UAA27736 at moe.2bsd.com> from "Steven M. Schultz" at "Mar 22, 98 08:38:48 pm"
Reply-To: wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au
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In article by Steven M. Schultz:
> > From: "Ed G." <edgee at cyberpass.net>
> > 
> > > 	What you need to do is build a 'tape' (using 'makesimtape' if you
> > > 	need to use Bob's emulator) from ALL of the files in Distributions/ucb/
> > 
> > I've looked everywhere I can think of on the PUPS site, but couldn't
> > find 'makesimtape'.  I couldn't find it among the source of Bob's
> > emulator.  Where can I get a copy of this program? 

> 	It's in /usr/src/sys/pdpstand.  Look in file7.tar.gz from the 2.11 part
> 	of the Distributions and it should be somewhere in there.

Ah, I should point out to the readers of the mailing list:

	The PUPS Archive is NOT what you get by going to

		ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au

	as anonymous. Obviously, the archive has to be password
	protected, and so the anonymous ftp on Minnie isn't the Archive.

I suspect Ed has been walking thru the anonymous area, which is why he
could only find Bob Supnik's emulator.

Anyway, Steven has provided a solution. Steven, could you put in
#ifdefs for particular endian architectures???

Cheers,
	Warren

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From: "Ed G." <edgee at cyberpass.net>
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 21:49:02 -0400
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Subject: What's magtape good for anyway?
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> The program is short enough I'll include it here.  It should compile
> and run with minimal tweeking on any 'BSD'ish UNIX system.

Thanks!

I was just a plain old user during my college days, so I've never had 
much contact with magtape.

But since magtape seems the easiest way to get data into and out of 
Bob Supnik's emulator, I've been fooling around with (simulated) 
tape a lot lately.

To me (or maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about) it seems
like magtape has a number of deficiencies:

No filenames or directory structure:  just an ordered series of 
bytes.  Which would seem to imply that people must've used tar *a lot*
to get these services.  True?

Padding of files to a multiple of the block size.  Yuck!  If I have
a 312 byte file, I do not want to save it and then retrieve a (to my
eyes anyway) different  512 byte file which has been padded with
200 bytes I didn't put there.  Did this padding of files ever have 
any bad effects? 

So I was wondering, what *did* people use magtape for on these old
Unix systems?

Here are my guesses:

Bad Old Days          What we use now
================================
Archival storage (tape, CD-Roms, Zip drives, floppies) 

Application Software distribution (WWW, CD-Roms, ftp, email, 
floppies) 

System software distribution (CD-Roms, ftp)

Backups (tape)

Transfering a little data (Floppies, email).

Transfering a lot of data (CD-Roms, Zip drives, ftp, tape)

Have I left any significant use for tape out?

Ed G.

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From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803240434.PAA11927 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: What's magtape good for anyway?
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 15:34:54 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <199803240249.VAA27961 at renoir.op.net> from "Ed G." at "Mar 23, 98 09:49:02 pm"
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In article by Ed G.:
> So I was wondering, what *did* people use magtape for on these old
> Unix systems?

Add another one: Xmas decorations.

	Warren

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From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803240445.PAA11961 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Moving PDP-11 disk images to disk
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 15:45:16 +1100 (EST)
Reply-To: wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au
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All,
	I've had a few people ask the question:

I have a PDP-11, you have disk and tape images for old Unixes. How do get
the images onto my actual disk/tape so I can install Unix?

If anybody has sucessfully done:

	image -> tape -> install to disk -> working PDP-11 UNIX

	image -> install to disk -> working PDP-11 UNIX

or any other variant, using any intermediate system (e.g KSERVE & RT-11),
could they please drop me a note with some _details_ of what they did.

I'd like to add this to the FAQ, as I suspect this is going to be a
popular question as people receive their SCO UNIX licenses.

Thanks in advance!

	Warren

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From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca>
Message-Id: <9803240458.AA14216 at alph02.triumf.ca>
Subject: Re: What's magtape good for anyway?
To: edgee at cyberpass.net
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 20:58:44 -0800 (PST)
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <199803240249.VAA27961 at renoir.op.net> from "Ed G." at Mar 23, 98 09:49:02 pm
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> To me (or maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about) it seems
> like magtape has a number of deficiencies:
> 
> No filenames or directory structure:  just an ordered series of 
> bytes.  Which would seem to imply that people must've used tar *a lot*
> to get these services.  True?

Most (non-Unix) minicomputer OS's had built-in support for
ANSI labeled files, which do have filenames (and header bytes to
specify record sizes and number of records).  Folks who used Unix
either made their own labeled tape facility (e.g. Ultrix and
OSF/1 "ltf") or just used "dd" and a lot of hard work.

The lack of a record structure that is built-in to the Unix filesystem
really makes things like tape transfers quite irritating.  The rest of
the world isn't always just a stream of bytes!

Tim. (shoppa at triumf.ca)

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From: Ken Wellsch <kcwellsc at math.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-Id: <199803241431.JAA09618 at math.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Re: What's magtape good for anyway?
To: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 09:31:48 -0500 (EST)
Cc: edgee at cyberpass.net, pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <9803240458.AA14216 at alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Mar 23, 98 08:58:44 pm
Organization: University of Waterloo, Math Faculty Computing Facility
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Now far for me to be defending 9-track tapes on UNIX systems, and I'm
the first to admit I've not encountered *all* the various methods used
everywhere to write tapes, but it took no time for me years ago to write
a program that would pull blocks off a tape (by trying to read the max
limit block size) and recording the actual block size read.  Oddly enough
when matched with a program that read this "raw format" info, it was sure
trivial to reproduce the tape... but I'm sure I'm missing something.
Luckily on my UNIX systems I am unencumbered by someone else's potentially
proprietary or undocumented "file structure" - both by the system and
by the media. -- Ken

| From owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au  Tue Mar 24 00:09:12 1998
| 
| Most (non-Unix) minicomputer OS's had built-in support for
| ANSI labeled files, which do have filenames (and header bytes to
| specify record sizes and number of records).  Folks who used Unix
| either made their own labeled tape facility (e.g. Ultrix and
| OSF/1 "ltf") or just used "dd" and a lot of hard work.
| 
| The lack of a record structure that is built-in to the Unix filesystem
| really makes things like tape transfers quite irritating.  The rest of
| the world isn't always just a stream of bytes!
| 
| Tim. (shoppa at triumf.ca)

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From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803242118.IAA00742 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: More on Disk Images -> Disk
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 08:18:39 +1100 (EST)
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All,
	I spent some time last night adding stuff to my virtual tape server.
I have to test it today, but essentially:


	Box with	serial line		PDP-11 with
	tape server	----------->		uncompress & dd
	+ disk_image.Z				(bootable)

In other words, you can boot to an uncompressing dd, and suck over
any disk image, without actually requiring an operating system.

With this approach, you obtain an existing disk image that will work,
or you use one of the PDP-11 emulators to create a disk image with a
Unix kernel configured for your system. You then compress it, and
suck/splat it to your real PDP-11 via the serial line.

Now, what I've currently got will cope with -b12 compressed files. Can
someone tell me if it would be feasible to fit a gunzip into 64K?? Even
if it could only cope with gzip -1 files.

Cheers all,

	Warren

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From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803250023.LAA01449 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Compress Disk Image Install works
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 11:23:05 +1100 (EST)
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Well,
	I'm currently sucking a .Z compress RK05 disk image over a 9600 baud
DL11 port; it seems to be working. Pity -b12 gives such low compression, but
I guess any saving at 9600 baud is worth it.

	Warren

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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 16:24:33 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms at moe.2bsd.com>
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Warren -

>From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>

> Now, what I've currently got will cope with -b12 compressed files. Can
> someone tell me if it would be feasible to fit a gunzip into 64K?? Even
> if it could only cope with gzip -1 files.

	If my understanding of 'gzip' is right then the alogrithm works on
	32kb blocks of data and the '-N' level has little to do with the
	memory consumption.  Rather, as the -1, ... -9 level increases the
	amount of work that gzip puts into the compression increases (the
	difference between -6 and -9 is only a few percent in final output
	size but the length of time taken is quite a bit higher).

	Of concern would be getting the gzip sources to compile with a non-ANSI
	compiler on a non-32bit machine (sizeof (long) == sizeof(int) is an
	endemic assumption I wager).  Well, ok - there is the worry that
	you will grow old waiting for it to compress something ;-)  Gzip is a 
	lot more cpu intensive than compress.

	Steven


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From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803250032.LAA01502 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: More on Disk Images -> Disk
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 11:32:56 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <199803250024.QAA14701 at moe.2bsd.com> from "Steven M. Schultz" at "Mar 24, 98 04:24:33 pm"
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In article by Steven M. Schultz:
> Warren -
> 
> >From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
> 
> > Now, what I've currently got will cope with -b12 compressed files. Can
> > someone tell me if it would be feasible to fit a gunzip into 64K?? Even
> > if it could only cope with gzip -1 files.
> 
> 	If my understanding of 'gzip' is right then the alogrithm works on
> 	32kb blocks of data and the '-N' level has little to do with the
> 	memory consumption.  Rather, as the -1, ... -9 level increases the
> 	amount of work that gzip puts into the compression increases (the
> 	difference between -6 and -9 is only a few percent in final output
> 	size but the length of time taken is quite a bit higher).
> 
> 	Of concern would be getting the gzip sources to compile with a non-ANSI
> 	compiler on a non-32bit machine (sizeof (long) == sizeof(int) is an
> 	endemic assumption I wager).  Well, ok - there is the worry that
> 	you will grow old waiting for it to compress something ;-)  Gzip is a 
> 	lot more cpu intensive than compress.

I'm only thinking of implementing gunzip on the PDP-11. I've got
uncompress -b12 running standalone right now, but gunzip would be a big
win: you gzip -9 on a 32-bit system (higher compression) and gunzip 
on the PDP-11.

I just don't know if the gunzip would fit. Isn't there a gunzip for MS-DOS?
Surely we could leverage something from it?

	Warren

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From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
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Subject: Re: More on Disk Images -> Disk
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 14:36:28 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <m0yHgvc-000FlVC at bookworm.softway.com.au> from Peter Chubb at "Mar 25, 98 02:32:00 pm"
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In article by Peter Chubb:
> 
> In the Linux kernel, linux/lib/inflate.c and
> arch/i386/boot/compressed/misc.c there's a set of gunzip routines that
> could probably be adapted -- it runs in 16 bit mode (or ought
> to). inflate.c is K&R C, so it should compile under V7; misc.c is
> ANSI, but is small (just wrappers around gunzip) and in any case would
> bneed changing to make a proper gunzip.
> 
> I'll see what I can do.
> Peter C.

I think Steven described the main thing: will it run in 64K? I've popped
some mail off to Jean-loup, who was involved with writing gzip.

If we can get gunzip running in 64K on V7, I can then move it to a
standalone program with minimal effort: the V7 standalone library
provides open, close, read, write, printf, exit.

Cheers!
	Warren

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From: Greg Lehey <grog at lemis.com>
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Subject: Re: More on Disk Images -> Disk
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On Wed, 25 March 1998 at 14:36:28 +1100, Warren Toomey wrote:
> In article by Peter Chubb:
>>
>> In the Linux kernel, linux/lib/inflate.c and
>> arch/i386/boot/compressed/misc.c there's a set of gunzip routines that
>> could probably be adapted -- it runs in 16 bit mode (or ought
>> to). inflate.c is K&R C, so it should compile under V7; misc.c is
>> ANSI, but is small (just wrappers around gunzip) and in any case would
>> bneed changing to make a proper gunzip.
>>
>> I'll see what I can do.
>> Peter C.
>
> I think Steven described the main thing: will it run in 64K? I've popped
> some mail off to Jean-loup, who was involved with writing gzip.

I've done a little bit of playing around with gzip 1.2.4.  It works on
16 bit MS-DOS platforms with a bit of  tweaking, and I got all modules
to compile under 2.11BSD.  Unfortunately, I ended up  with a couple of
undefined references on linking, and I haven't had time  to look at it
in more detail.  On the whole, though, it looks as if it could be made
to work, maybe with a little tweaking.

> If we can get gunzip running in 64K on V7, I can then move it to a
> standalone program with minimal effort: the V7 standalone library
> provides open, close, read, write, printf, exit.

Should be doable.

Greg

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From: "Ed G." <edgee at cyberpass.net>
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> OSF/1 "ltf") or just used "dd" and a lot of hard work.

Is 'dd' Unix's primary tool for dealing with tape drives?

> The lack of a record structure that is built-in to the Unix filesystem
> really makes things like tape transfers quite irritating.  The rest of
> the world isn't always just a stream of bytes!

There are certain areas of Unix that don't seem quite "done" to me. 
Printing comes to mind (compare Unix benign neglect with Windows'
universal printer driver).  

My understanding is that the Unix philosophy was to provide raw and
cooked drivers for all the devices.  That way you could have access 
to the hardware if you needed it, or cushy operating system services 
if you didn't.  Only the cooked mode for the tape devices doesn't 
seem to do much more than the raw mode.

Seems to me that they could have easily added file system services
for tape drives to the kernel, just like they did for hard disks.
Was support for tape another area that the Wizzards at Bell Labs
neglected in favor of other more urgent needs?

Ed

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From: "Ed G." <edgee at cyberpass.net>
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I don't know whether this is a bug in the factor (1) program (which 
seems unlikely) or the emulator.  Can someone try factoring numbers on
a real pdp-11 and tell me what happens?

On the emulator when I type in a number, factor prints out the 
prime factors, followed by an infinite series of 17s.  So, for 
example

factor 6
2
3
17
17
....

I might add that I had bc running on the emulator calculate pi to 
30 places and the results were identical with gnu bc on my linux box, 
right down to the last digit.  Very impressive.

Ed

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Greg -

> I've done a little bit of playing around with gzip 1.2.4.  It works on

	Are gzip and gunzip comparable in size?  I'm curious if the 
	decompression is more 'address space' hungry than the act of 
	compression (or vice-versa).

> 16 bit MS-DOS platforms with a bit of  tweaking, and I got all modules
> to compile under 2.11BSD.  Unfortunately, I ended up  with a couple of
> undefined references on linking, and I haven't had time  to look at it

	Which symbols came up missing/undefined?

> > If we can get gunzip running in 64K on V7, I can then move it to a
> 
> Should be doable.

	It's actually 56kb or less - have to leave room for the stack and
	other data (strings, etc)

	Steven


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On Tue, 24 March 1998 at 23:48:33 -0400, Ed G. wrote:
> I don't know whether this is a bug in the factor (1) program (which
> seems unlikely) or the emulator.  Can someone try factoring numbers on
> a real pdp-11 and tell me what happens?
>
> On the emulator when I type in a number, factor prints out the
> prime factors, followed by an infinite series of 17s.  So, for
> example
>
> factor 6
> 2
> 3
> 17
> 17
> ....

I would be very surprised if this was a bug in the emulator.

In any case, I tried it on the begemot emulator, running 2.11BSD:

[55] root--> /usr/games/factor 6
        2
        3
[56] root--> 

Greg

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On Tue, 24 March 1998 at 21:06:26 -0800, Steven M. Schultz wrote:
> Greg -
>
>> I've done a little bit of playing around with gzip 1.2.4.  It works on
>
> 	Are gzip and gunzip comparable in size? 

They're links to the same executable.

>       I'm curious if the
> 	decompression is more 'address space' hungry than the act of
> 	compression (or vice-versa).

I haven't looked at the process images on systems on which they run.
I suspect it wouldn't relate directly to 16 bit platforms anyway,
since they have a slightly modified algorithm.

>> 16 bit MS-DOS platforms with a bit of  tweaking, and I got all modules
>> to compile under 2.11BSD.  Unfortunately, I ended up  with a couple of
>> undefined references on linking, and I haven't had time  to look at it
>
> 	Which symbols came up missing/undefined?

Various things defined in the program.  They relate to the area in
which I was tweaking.

>>> If we can get gunzip running in 64K on V7, I can then move it to a
>>
>> Should be doable.
>
> 	It's actually 56kb or less - have to leave room for the stack and
> 	other data (strings, etc)

Yes, I understand.  It may of course be that we need separate I and D.

Greg


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From: Greg Lehey <grog at lemis.com>
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Subject: gzip on PDP-11: not so simple
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OK, I've found the problems with gzip, and they're not encouraging.
It would appear that the undefined references are undefined because
they refer to data which is too large.  Here's the preprocessor
output:

  uch  inbuf[   0x8000   + 64     ];
  uch  outbuf[  16384  +2048   ];
  ush  d_buf[  0x8000 ];
  uch  window[ 2*0x8000     ];
# 194 "gzip.c"

      ush  prev[ 1<<(16-1)];
      ush  tab_prefix1[ 1<<(16-1)];

uch and ush are uchar and ushort respectively.  Obviously there's no
way of fitting this into a 64 kB address space.  Possibly there's a
way of shortening the buffers, but it would take more time than I have
right now.  Sorry for raising your hopes.

There are other zip-compatible programs out there, such as unzip.
Maybe somebody should look into them.

Greg

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There were several tape handling programs that were standand from edition 5
onwards, including tap, tp, dtp, itp, tar and cpio. The only major tape standard
around at the time (other than IBM) was ANSI, and several programs (not from
Bell) were available to handle these. The ANSI tape structure was very
inefficient with tape usage, since it used small record sizes and lots
of tape marks. TAR did a better job (for Unix) and only lacked labels
to name the tape.

Putting tape filesystem handling into the kernel was definately against the
original 'small is beautiful' philosophy. In any case, tape handling was
very easy via the raw interface.

As a side issue, Plan 9 has the ability to mount a tape as part of the
namespace and only reads the file contents if the file is opened.

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>>>>> "Greg" == Greg Lehey <grog at lemis.com> writes:

Greg> OK, I've found the problems with gzip, and they're not
Greg> encouraging.  It would appear that the undefined references are
Greg> undefined because they refer to data which is too large.  Here's
Greg> the preprocessor output:

Greg>   uch inbuf[ 0x8000 + 64 ]; uch outbuf[ 16384 +2048 ]; ush
Greg> d_buf[ 0x8000 ]; uch window[ 2*0x8000 ]; # 194 "gzip.c"

You need to decrease the window size -- try setting it to 8k (instead
of 32k)

There should be a 
#define WSIZE 0x8000
somewhere.

It may be worth playing with a decompress only version -- compression
will take more space than decompression (you need two windows rather
than one, for a start).  inbuf can be smaller, too.  Try 512 bytes to
match the disc record size.

Peter C

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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 17:41:36 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog at lemis.com>
To: Peter Chubb <peterc at softway.com.au>
Cc: PDP UNIX Preservation Society <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: gzip on PDP-11: not so simple
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On Wed, 25 March 1998 at 17:43:00 +1000, Peter Chubb wrote:
>>>>>> "Greg" == Greg Lehey <grog at lemis.com> writes:
>
> Greg> OK, I've found the problems with gzip, and they're not
> Greg> encouraging.  It would appear that the undefined references are
> Greg> undefined because they refer to data which is too large.  Here's
> Greg> the preprocessor output:
>
> Greg>   uch inbuf[ 0x8000 + 64 ]; uch outbuf[ 16384 +2048 ]; ush
> Greg> d_buf[ 0x8000 ]; uch window[ 2*0x8000 ]; # 194 "gzip.c"
>
> You need to decrease the window size -- try setting it to 8k (instead
> of 32k)
>
> There should be a
> #define WSIZE 0x8000
> somewhere.

Correct.  Unfortunately, it's not as simple as that.  Here's the
definition:

#ifndef WSIZE
#  define WSIZE 0x8000     /* window size--must be a power of two, and */
#endif                     /*  at least 32K for zip's deflate method */

> It may be worth playing with a decompress only version -- compression
> will take more space than decompression (you need two windows rather
> than one, for a start).

Yes, that was really what I was thinking of doing with unzip, rather
than excising the unzip part from gunzip.

> inbuf can be smaller, too.  Try 512 bytes to match the disc record
> size.

Sure, once I get into serious modifications I can try a number of
things.  The trouble is, I just don't have the time.  I thought it was
worth 15 minutes to see what it would do, and the first attempts
looked encouraging.  Unfortunately, the second attempts didn't :-(

Greg

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From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull)
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        "Re: Bug in Supnik's emulator?" (Mar 25, 15:54)
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On Mar 25, 15:54, Greg Lehey wrote:
> Subject: Re: Bug in Supnik's emulator?
> On Tue, 24 March 1998 at 23:48:33 -0400, Ed G. wrote:
> > I don't know whether this is a bug in the factor (1) program (which
> > seems unlikely) or the emulator.  Can someone try factoring numbers on
> > a real pdp-11 and tell me what happens?
> >
> > On the emulator when I type in a number, factor prints out the
> > prime factors, followed by an infinite series of 17s.

> I would be very surprised if this was a bug in the emulator.
> In any case, I tried it on the begemot emulator, running 2.11BSD:
>
> [55] root--> /usr/games/factor 6
>         2
>         3
> [56] root-->

On my PDP-11/23 running 7th Edition, factor works fine:

$ factor 6

     2
     3
$

-- 

Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Dept. of Computer Science
						University of York

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From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
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Subject: Re: gzip on PDP-11: not so simple
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I find this situation funny as in the 8080/z80 (8 bit data 64kbyte address 
space) world there is LZH, Crunch, ARK, ARC, LBR... compressors and 
decompressors.  Atleast a handful are written in C.

Also PDP11 address space (no I&D) is 32kW... Instructions are always 
words so code can eat up a fair portion of the 64k bytes.

Allison


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<There are certain areas of Unix that don't seem quite "done" to me. 
<Printing comes to mind (compare Unix benign neglect with Windows'
<universal printer driver).  

Most of magtapes short commings under unix are common across most OSs
and are assignable to the characterisitcs of the medium.  Mag tape has
several things that make it difficult, one is old (late 60s and through
the 70s) drives had a difficult time starting and stopping without 
breaking tape or resorting to complex(then standards) controllers.  This 
lead to things like large interrecord gaps (start, speed up read, stop,
backspace records, stop, read) due to the inerta of starting and stoping 
the reels.  Also fixed record sizes were used to make blocks about the 
same length so blocks and marks could be differentiated using simple 
timers.

Magtape was for the longest time the only portable media, which lead to 
the ansi/EBCDIC problems (Evryone else and IBM/HP).  It was generally 
used for archival storage making file organized access excess overhead.  
While often used as block oriented, many systems used it more as a stream 
device where the high volume storage (relative to the disks of the time) 
capability was available.

When processing was done on early system usually two or three drives were 
involved as one of two were for reading  and the third was writing results
usually due to memory size limitations of the time compared to the amount 
of data.  Alot of magtapes lore is a result of historical use.

FYI the idea of tar files had spilled over to CP/M (8080, z80) systems 
back in the 80s for distribution sets.  It was done usually by creating
an archive set of compressed files (.arc, .ark, .lbr). to get the most 
out of limited space of floppies (under 300k) of the time and to keep 
programs set and sources together.


Allison


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Subject: Re: What's TENIX??
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* Warren Toomey wrote:
> In article by Harald Barth:
>> One PDP-11 I have (and don't quite understand the hardware of) calls itself 
>> Tektronix 8562. In that box (43x60x30cm) you find
>> LSI-11/73	(only part made by DIGITAL)
>> Controller with 
>> 8'' floppy
>> 40Mb MFM disk with TENIX (binary of some kind of V7 Unix)
>> Controller with
>> 10 ttys
 
> Hmm, I haven't heard of Tenix before. I might punt this onto the
> mailing list to see if anybody can identify it.

> Any ideas, people??
 
I remember this.  Somewhere I worked as a student there was a
tektronix box which supported some kind of microcontroller development
system and/or and in-circuit emulator (for things like 8048 / 8051,
though I think it had personality modules).  It was a box which was
known to be a PDP11, and had a couple of tek terminals on it, probably
another box with stuff to support the emulators/PROM blowers & stuff,
and it ran Tenix.  I had an account on it, but all I knew then was
that it was some kind of Unix.  V7 sounds right -- perhaps it was
Tek's OEMd version of this, with (I guess) support for whatever HW
they had + some kind of development environment / x-assemblers & so
on.  The box just might still exist somewhere -- I made an attempt to
get hold of it after I realised that PDP11s were cool, but it was hard
because it had been worth a lot of money once and the accountants went
all funny about it.

--tim

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From: Milo Velimirovic <milov at toes.its.uwlax.edu>
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 98 10:32:14 -0600
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: oddball versions of Unix
Reply-To: Milo_Velimirovic at uwlax.edu
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Hey,

does anyone know if  LSX is coverd by the SCO source license? And where to
get sources for it?  It was a version of Unix that I played with 15 years ago
on an LSI-11 system with dual AED floppy drives... it was nice in that it
woudl run on a pdp11 that was lacking memory mangaement i.e. a 28kWord
machine....

Shake those gray cells  friends and let's see if we can scare this one out of
the woodwork... it would make a lot of ancient pdp11's much more useful. 


Regards,
Milo
---
Milo Velimirovic       <Milo.Velimirovic at uwlax.edu>
Unix Computer Network Administrator  (608) 785-8030
Information Technology Services -- Network Services
University of Wisconsin - La Crosse
La Crosse, Wisconsin 54601 USA    43 48 05 N 91 14 22 W


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Subject: Re: What's TENIX??
From: Harald Barth <haba at pdc.kth.se>
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> The box just might still exist somewhere -- I made an attempt to
> get hold of it after I realised that PDP11s were cool, but it was hard
> because it had been worth a lot of money once and the accountants went
> all funny about it.

Oh yes, very common scenario. Booted just for fun, see below.

Harald.


Welcome to Tnix Version 2.1 (rev b) on an 11/73


We recommend that you check the file system after TNIX has been
restarted. ( Checking the file system takes about 5 minutes for a minimum
system of files, longer for more files. )

Do you want to check the file system at this time?
Enter y for yes, n for no, or question mark for more information : y

The standard TNIX syschk command reports any problems with
the file system, but does not fix them.

The Standalone Utilities syschk command reports any problems with the file
system, and queries you on how to fix the problems.

Which file system checker?
   1) standard TNIX syschk             (reports problems)
   2) Standalone Utilities syschk      (fixes problems)

Please enter a number: 1
checking /dev/rhd0:
  ...checking i-nodes and directory entries...
  ...checking tree structure...
  ...checking free list...
  free list is ok.  rebuild free list?  (y or n): n

  75349 total blocks in filesystem
  0 bad blocks (0 percent)
  44112 free blocks (58 percent)
  22491 free i-nodes (89 percent)


TNIX shows the current date and time as 
Sat Mar 22 23:31:31 MET 1997

If date and time is already correct, press RETURN.

Otherwise, you need to reenter the date.

The format for a date entry is [dd-mmm-yy] hh:mm[:ss]
Example:                        22-jun-83 14:20
Please enter correct date:      25-mar-98 02:34
Wed Mar 25 02:34:51 MET 1998

Do you want to remain single user?
(Enter y for yes, n for no, or question mark for more information) : y

Now entering single-user mode. To exit from single-user mode,
enter CTRL-D.
#
Do you want to remain single user?
(Enter y for yes, n for no, or question mark for more information) : n

When you see the login prompt, you can enter your login name, 
"manager", or "root".

login: your login name  Logs you into your personal account. The account
                        must already have been created by the system
                        manager.

login: manager          Displays  information about common system manager
                        tasks, and information about the "root" account.

login: root             Logs you in to the "root" account -- the account
                        used to maintain system files.  As root, you have 
                        full access to all files on the system, and no 
                        restrictions as to what you can do with the files. 
                        We recommend that you limit access to the root account,
                        and that you assign a password to the root account.

login: root
Password:
********************************************************************************
*                                                                              *
*                           WELCOME TO TEKTRONIX                               *
*                                                                              *
********************************************************************************


        USERS ON THE SYSTEM:

                ASSAR
                HABA
                MHO

 
        IF YOU HAVE ANY PROBLEMS, DO NOT ASK HABA IF HE CAN HELP YOU

# ls -ltr
total 499
-rw------- 1 root      58740 Apr 10  1984 tnix.old
-rw------- 1 root       9852 Apr 10  1984 boot
drwxr-xr-x11 bin         176 Apr 10  1984 tek
-rw------- 1 root      57584 Apr 10  1984 TNIX.old
-rw------- 1 root      58740 Jun 20  1985 tnix
-rwx--x--x 1 root      57584 Nov  9  1985 TNIX
drwxr-xr-x 2 bin         736 Sep 23  1986 lib
-rw-r--r-- 1 root       1024 Oct  1  1986 .hp_memory
drwxrwxrwx 2 root        176 Jan 30  1987 lost+found
drwxr-xr-x 5 root         80 Sep  1  1992 home
drwxr-xr-x 7 bin        4336 Sep  1  1992 bin
drwxr-xr-x 2 root        928 Nov  5  1992 dev
drwxr-xr-x 2 root         80 Nov  5  1992 mnt
drwxrwxr-x 4 root        128 Apr 19  1993 vaxboot
drwxr-xr-x 4 bin         480 Mar 25 02:36 etc
drwxr-xr-x25 bin         416 Mar 25 02:36 usr
drwxrwxrwx 2 root         64 Mar 25 02:36 tmp
#  shutdown
Wait for the message on the system console
saying it is all right to halt the system.
System may now be safely powered down or rebooted

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From: Milo Velimirovic <milov at toes.its.uwlax.edu>
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 98 13:47:24 -0600
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Subject: Follow-up: oddball versions of Unix
Reply-To: Milo_Velimirovic at uwlax.edu
References: <9803251632.AA01056 at toes.its.uwlax.edu>
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Hi,

The system I referred to below was described in:
Lycklama, H.
UNIX on a Microprocessor,
Bell System Technical Journal, Vol. 57, No. 6, July-August 1978, pp. 2087-2101

--Milo

Begin forwarded message:
>
>X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f
>From: Milo Velimirovic <milov at toes.its.uwlax.edu>
>Date: Wed, 25 Mar 98 10:32:14 -0600
>To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
>Subject: oddball versions of Unix
>Reply-To: Milo_Velimirovic at uwlax.edu
>Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
>
>Hey,
>
>does anyone know if  LSX is coverd by the SCO source license? And where to
>get sources for it?  It was a version of Unix that I played with 15 years ago
>on an LSI-11 system with dual AED floppy drives... it was nice in that it
>woudl run on a pdp11 that was lacking memory mangaement i.e. a 28kWord
>machine....
>
>Shake those gray cells  friends and let's see if we can scare this one out of
>the woodwork... it would make a lot of ancient pdp11's much more useful. 
>
>
>Regards,
>Milo
>---
>Milo Velimirovic       <Milo.Velimirovic at uwlax.edu>
>Unix Computer Network Administrator  (608) 785-8030
>Information Technology Services -- Network Services
>University of Wisconsin - La Crosse
>La Crosse, Wisconsin 54601 USA    43 48 05 N 91 14 22 W
>
>

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From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803252033.HAA03043 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: gzip on PDP-11: not so simple
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 07:33:46 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <199803251433.AA22453 at world.std.com> from Allison J Parent at "Mar 25, 98 09:33:18 am"
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In article by Allison J Parent:
> I find this situation funny as in the 8080/z80 (8 bit data 64kbyte address 
> space) world there is LZH, Crunch, ARK, ARC, LBR... compressors and 
> decompressors.  Atleast a handful are written in C.
> 
> Also PDP11 address space (no I&D) is 32kW... Instructions are always 
> words so code can eat up a fair portion of the 64k bytes.

Well, I've got uncompress working, but I thought having gunzip would
be good as it gives better compression results.

	Warren

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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 13:50:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Drake <Chris.Drake at Corp.Sun.COM>
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Subject: Re: Follow-up: oddball versions of Unix
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>UNIX on a Microprocessor

I did use something called "Mini-Unix" on a PDP-11/10, which was a single-
address space machine.  It worked, sort of, but had some problems - like,
pipes were implemented as temporary files, so the shell broke things apart
into individual sequential commands...  and printing with lpr generally
froze the machine up.  There may have been later and better versions, though.
(This was around 76/77, as I recall).

	- Chris


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From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
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<Well, I've got uncompress working, but I thought having gunzip would
<be good as it gives better compression results.

The question is why?  Generally compression is a diminishing returns for
computational effort with 80% for the first 10% effort.  I can see having 
it if needed to gain access to software and the current platform is the 
only one. 

For sim to hardware transfers simple works better... 

Allison


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From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803252155.IAA03217 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Follow-up: oddball versions of Unix
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 08:55:36 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <199803252150.NAA10104 at rainbow.Corp.Sun.COM> from Chris Drake at "Mar 25, 98 01:50:07 pm"
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In article by Chris Drake:
> >UNIX on a Microprocessor
> 
> I did use something called "Mini-Unix" on a PDP-11/10, which was a single-
> address space machine.  It worked, sort of, but had some problems - like,
> pipes were implemented as temporary files, so the shell broke things apart
> into individual sequential commands...  and printing with lpr generally
> froze the machine up.  There may have been later and better versions, though.
> (This was around 76/77, as I recall).

Yep, it's in the archive!

	Warren

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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 21:56:05 +0000
To: wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au
Cc: PDP Unix Preservation <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
From: Robin Birch <robin at falstaf.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: gzip on PDP-11: not so simple
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In message <199803252033.HAA03043 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>, Warren Toomey
<wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> writes
>In article by Allison J Parent:
>> I find this situation funny as in the 8080/z80 (8 bit data 64kbyte address 
>> space) world there is LZH, Crunch, ARK, ARC, LBR... compressors and 
>> decompressors.  Atleast a handful are written in C.
>> 
>> Also PDP11 address space (no I&D) is 32kW... Instructions are always 
>> words so code can eat up a fair portion of the 64k bytes.
>
>Well, I've got uncompress working, but I thought having gunzip would
>be good as it gives better compression results.
>
>       Warren
I looked at this several years ago and gave up at the save point as
Warren.  I looked at compress using 16 bits and hit the same sort of
constructs.  After a bit of thinking I believe there may be a way round
it but at the time I didn't know the algorithms used in compress or gzip
so didn't try playing.

The problem is that the compression algorithm needs a 64k space to do
all of its sums in, don't ask me why, if someone could tell us the
algorithm them I would understand a lot better.

These are defined as 64k address spaces which the data page isn't
holding cos they don't fit.  If you write a virtual mem system then this
will work.  This causes problems in the standalone world obviously but
steve wrote a vm lookalike for 2.11 that uses files, yes a lump of real
mem aka the partition concept with movable windows in RSX would be nice
but we can't have everything, but compress and maybe gip should be able
to be cooked into using such a system for vm.  This would be slow but
what are we after?, an all singing all dancing system or something that
would work in the background whilst we get a beer and wait for the
system to install?.

Cheers

Robin
Robin Birch     robin at falstaf.demon.co.uk

M1ASU/2E0ARJ    Old computers and radios always welcome

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From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803252207.JAA03305 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: gzip on PDP-11: not so simple
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 09:07:35 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <0S+aPCA11XG1EwK5 at falstaf.demon.co.uk> from Robin Birch at "Mar 25, 98 09:56:05 pm"
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In article by Robin Birch:

	[ not being able to run gzip on a PDP-11 ]
> This would be slow but
> what are we after?, an all singing all dancing system or something that
> would work in the background whilst we get a beer and wait for the
> system to install?.

You're right I think. At least compress -b12 works, and as you say, a bit
of extra wait isn't going to hurt too much.

Peter Chubb seems interested in fitting gunzip into 64K. I'll see how he
goes with it.

Thanks all for your comments,

	Warren

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From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803252230.JAA03395 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Available: tool to write disk images to PDP-11
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 09:30:00 +1100 (EST)
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Ok,
	I debugged the thing yesterday, it works well. If you want to write
a PDP-11 disk image to a real PDP-11, you might like to look in:

	ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver

and at the file zcat.README there.

Current disk and tapes supported:

hp: RP04, RP05 and RP06 disks.
rp: RP03 disks.
rk: RK05 disks.
rl: RL01 and RL02 disks.
ht: TU16 or TE16 tape drive.
tm: TU10 tape drive.
vt: The Virtual Tape drive.

You can download from any tape to any disk. The Virtual Tape drive allows
you to download the image over a KL11 at 9,600 baud. Any type of disk image
can be downloaded, not just Unix ones.

You will need compress(1). And a bit of patience.

Let's hope someone tries this out!

Ciao,
	Warren

P.S I plan on migrating to the 2.11BSD standalone stuff, which supports
more tape drives and disk drives. Sometime.

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Well...
	my cut-down zcat now works under Linux, and compiles and links
	cleanly under v7 on the simulator.  But the semantics are
	wrong!  

	Big problem is the lack of unsigned char and unsigned long
	types.

	I'm gradually going through and finding places where left
	shifts, or sign extensions are happening, and masking them
	explicitly.

	I'm almost sure that at UNSW we had a C compiler on Unix V7 that had
	an unsigned long data type...

	Anyway, there's progress.  And if it all goes OK, then
	on machines that have separate I&D spaces, the resulting zcat
	will be compatible with gzip everywhere.

	Peter C

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From: "Ed G." <edgee at cyberpass.net>
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Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 22:51:31 -0400
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Subject: Bug in Bob Supnik's Emulator!
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As you know, I wrote this list recently about a bug in Bob Supnik's 
emulator which manifests when running factor (1).  

I've had a chance to do some further research on this, and it seems 
to me that the bug is definitely in Supnik's emulator.  What do you 
all think?  Am I onto something?  If so, what part of Supnik's code 
is probably to blame?

Here's what I've learned so far:

1. factor on Supnik's emulator fails most of the time (see below for 
examples).

2. factor works fine on Ersatz-11

2. On the off-chance that I munged the disk images and somehow
corrupted factor, I reextracted virgin images from the tar ball. 
factor still fails while running on Supnik's emulator.

3. Peter Turnbull wrote me that factor running on under uv7 on his 
PDP-11/23 runs the test case 'factor 6' without error.

Here's what factor does on Supnik's emulator for a variety of values:

factor 6
2
3
17
17 etc.

factor 257
263
263 etc.

factor 263
269
269 etc.

factor 1009 (works correctly)
1009

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From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull)
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        "Bug in Bob Supnik's Emulator!" (Mar 26, 22:51)
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Hi, Ed.

> I've had a chance to do some further research on this, and it seems
> to me that the bug is definitely in Supnik's emulator.  What do you
> all think?  Am I onto something?  If so, what part of Supnik's code
> is probably to blame?

Interesting...  did you use the same binary on both Bob's emulator and Ersatz?

> 3. Peter Turnbull wrote me that factor running on under uv7 on his
> PDP-11/23 runs the test case 'factor 6' without error.

Ah, I meant to mail that to the list.  No matter, it got to where it was most
needed, obviously :-)

I'd suggest you recompile factor if you have the source, but add some
debugging. If you can't do that, you could try running it with adb (the
debugger, man 1 adb for details).

-- 

Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Dept. of Computer Science
						University of York

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From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803280050.LAA05410 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Bug in Bob Supnik's Emulator!
To: pete at dunnington.u-net.com
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 11:50:54 +1100 (EST)
Cc: edgee at cyberpass.net, pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <9803270628.ZM27283 at indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> from Pete Turnbull at "Mar 27, 98 06:28:52 am"
Reply-To: wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au
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In article by Pete Turnbull:
> Hi, Ed.
> 
> > I've had a chance to do some further research on this, and it seems
> > to me that the bug is definitely in Supnik's emulator.  What do you
> > all think?  Am I onto something?  If so, what part of Supnik's code
> > is probably to blame?
> 
> Interesting...  did you use the same binary on both Bob's emulator and Ersatz?
> 
> > 3. Peter Turnbull wrote me that factor running on under uv7 on his
> > PDP-11/23 runs the test case 'factor 6' without error.

> I'd suggest you recompile factor if you have the source, but add some
> debugging. If you can't do that, you could try running it with adb (the
> debugger, man 1 adb for details).

I suspect the FP emulation in Bob's Emulator, so it might be worth
watching the floating point values in the program. Bob mailed me during
the week, and I sent him a virgin binary of factor so he could verify that
there is a bug.

	Warren

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From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803282341.JAA06110 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Digest of PUPS mail available
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 09:41:33 +1000 (EST)
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The PUPS mailing list seems to be getting busier. For those `lurkers' who
want to follow the list, but don't want to be pestered by incoming email
every 10 minutes, I've set up a digest form of the list.

The digest will be sent out every Monday and Thursday, or if the incoming
e-mail exceeds 40K in total.

To get the digest version, and to unsubscribe from the normal list, send
e-mail to majordomo at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au with the commands in the message body:

subscribe pups-digest
unsubscribe pups

You still need to send mail to pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au for it to go to
the PUPS list and to be included in the digest.

	Warren



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