On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 5:15 PM, Bakul Shah <bakul@bitblocks.com> wrote:

> On Sep 14, 2017, at 1:46 PM, Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
>
> I think you are actually touching on an idea that has been around humanity for a long time that is independent of the computer field.  We call it "good taste."  Part of acquiring good taste is learning what is in bad taste, a heavy dose of experience and frankly the ability to evaluate your own flaws.

More to do with a sense for quality. Often developed through experience
(but not just that). I think what we need is a guild system for
programmers/engineers. Being an apprentice of a master craftsman is
essential for learning this "good taste" as you call it.

No, please; not this old saw again.

This guild system for software keeps coming up but I don't see how it cannot but be abused. I remember reading one of those self-help books by one of the agile types (I forget which one) and there was a vignette about one of the self-styled agile gurus (Robert C Martin, I think) coming into some room where people were undergoing "apprenticeships" an, seeing an overflowing trashcan and taking out the trash. The person telling the story went one and one about being so embarrassed because s/he was "just" a lowly intern and this "master software craftsman" had taken out the trash.

I pretty much stopped reading after that. Sorry, but I cleaned enough heads and squad bays when I was in the Marines; Robert C Martin can take out his own trash, thank you very much. Also, I read one of his books once and he misspelled "Lieutenant" in the chapter about quality and attention to detail (a minor detail I was acutely aware of because I was a Lieutenant at the time).

I think a better system than putting us into this rigid hierarchy system is to think of programming as somewhat analogous to writing; it requires proofreading and good editing. Some authors are better than others; practice helps a lot, writers workshops can help, seeking out advise and mentorship from more accomplished writers similarly, etc.

But the guild/craftsmanship metaphor just doesn't work for me.

        - Dan C.