Some PDP11 Q..

jorgen.pehrson at seinf.mail.abb.com jorgen.pehrson at seinf.mail.abb.com
Mon Mar 2 20:30:40 AEST 1998


Hi,
I was given an PDP-11/84 but I have no idea what OS it has installed.
It says this when it starts up:

        Testing in progress - Please wait
                 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
            starting system
.
__: ADA1: Load resident files

A.DU0: BOOT from @   526  fp ch Memory size 2048kBytes v06.12.413

                      VISONIK
              Building supervisory and managment system
              Landis & Gyr, Building Control

__: INI0:  Start of RSYS !
__:SU03: Update Common from SYSL !
__: SIX2: Dataset IM: Rebuild Index
__: SIX2: Dataset REA: Rebuild Index
__: SIX2: Dataset DM: Rebuild Index
__: MELD: Init STA-Pointer    43252
__: MELD: Init ZMS-Pointer    10774


It has controlled the ventilation system on a hospital of that can be of
any help.
Anyone knows what OS this could be?

And another thing. This machine had a Wangtek 5150EQ tape streamer. If I
look
at the cables it seems to be SCSI. And the controller for the streamer is
not manufactured
by DEC. (There's no DEC logo on it at least.)
It says B 01079 ISS.4 1984 CTS-11 CKK 3890 on the board. Is this a SCSI
controller board?
Can I connect SCSI disks to it or is it a streamer only interface?
There're some (bad quality) pictures of the board at
http://spektr.ludvika.se/museum/pics/pdp11-board1.jpg

There's a switch on the front of the CPU box that says "AUX ON | OFF".  And
on the back of
the PSU there's a switch that says "remote | off | local". What function do
they have?

Thanks!

--
Jorgen Pehrson
jp at spektr.ludvika.se
http://spektr.ludvika.se/museum



Received: (from major at localhost)
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA00303
	for pups-liszt; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 03:48:25 +1100 (EST)
X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f
Received: from alph02.triumf.ca (alph02.Triumf.CA [142.90.114.18])
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA00298
	for <pups at minnie.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU>; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 03:48:18 +1100 (EST)
Received: by alph02.triumf.ca; id AA23582; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:48:04 -0800
From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca>
Message-Id: <9803021648.AA23582 at alph02.triumf.ca>
Subject: Re: Some PDP11 Q..
To: jorgen.pehrson at seinf.mail.ABB.com
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:48:04 -0800 (PST)
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <412565BB.0036DA5F.00 at notestest.mail.abb.com> from "jorgen.pehrson at seinf.mail.abb.com" at Mar 2, 98 11:30:40 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22]
Content-Type: text
Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Precedence: bulk

> I was given an PDP-11/84 but I have no idea what OS it has installed.
> __: ADA1: Load resident files
> A.DU0: BOOT from @   526  fp ch Memory size 2048kBytes v06.12.413
> __: INI0:  Start of RSYS !
> __:SU03: Update Common from SYSL !

It looks like a version of RSTS/E to me (but that's mainly because I
know it isn't RT-11 or RSX-11...)

> And another thing. This machine had a Wangtek 5150EQ tape streamer. If I
> look
> at the cables it seems to be SCSI. And the controller for the streamer is
> not manufactured
> by DEC. (There's no DEC logo on it at least.)
> It says B 01079 ISS.4 1984 CTS-11 CKK 3890 on the board. Is this a SCSI
> controller board?

It's almost certainly a QIC-02 controller, probably doing TS11 emulation.
The sure way to test if its doing TS11 emulation or not is to drop into
console ODT and see if there's something living at the TS11 CSRs at
17772520.

> There's a switch on the front of the CPU box that says "AUX ON | OFF".  And
> on the back of
> the PSU there's a switch that says "remote | off | local". What function do
> they have?

These control the 3-wire DEC power controller bus.

Warren may want to correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't non-Unix issues
like these best taken to forums such as vmsnet.pdp-11 and comp.os.rsts ?

Tim. (shoppa at triumf.ca)

Received: (from major at localhost)
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA03193
	for pups-liszt; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 10:28:13 +1100 (EST)
X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f
Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158])
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA03188
	for <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 10:28:09 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from wkt at localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA08076; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 10:28:19 +1100 (EST)
From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803022328.KAA08076 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Full Steam Ahead with License
To: dionj at sco.COM (Dion Johnson)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 10:28:19 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
In-Reply-To: <19980302152605.46176 at sco.com> from Dion Johnson at "Mar 2, 98 03:26:05 pm"
Reply-To: wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Precedence: bulk

In article by Dion Johnson:
> I am going to give myself the go-ahead and not bother those busy
> legal folks any more.

Goodo.
 
> It looks like we may be able to permit credit cards and Intl Money Orders.
> Are VISA and AMEX enough cards to support? I should know pretty soon on this.

I suspect that would be fine.
 
> > Someone asked if a password-protected ftp site would be ok?
> > I thought that it might contravene the license. What's your opinion?
> 
> As long as you know WHO has the password, that would be in accordance
> with the license, as I read it.
> -Dion

That's excellent news, Dion. I'll cc this to the PUPS mailing list.

Thanks again,

	Warren

Received: (from major at localhost)
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA03683
	for pups-liszt; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 12:54:41 +1100 (EST)
X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f
Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134])
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA03678
	for <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 12:54:35 +1100 (EST)
Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137])
	by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA09048;
	Tue, 3 Mar 1998 12:24:32 +1030 (CST)
Received: (from grog at localhost)
          by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id MAA14426;
          Tue, 3 Mar 1998 12:24:30 +1030 (CST)
          (envelope-from grog)
Message-ID: <19980303122430.47237 at freebie.lemis.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 12:24:30 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog at lemis.com>
To: Dion Johnson <dionj at sco.COM>
Cc: PDP Unix Preservation <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Full Steam Ahead with License
References: <19980302152605.46176 at sco.com> <199803022328.KAA08076 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i
In-Reply-To: <199803022328.KAA08076 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>; from Warren Toomey on Tue, Mar 03, 1998 at 10:28:19AM +1100
WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog
Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia
Phone: +61-8-8388-8286
Fax: +61-8-8388-8725
Mobile: +61-41-739-7062
Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Precedence: bulk

On Tue,  3 March 1998 at 10:28:19 +1100, Warren Toomey wrote:
> In article by Dion Johnson:
>> I am going to give myself the go-ahead and not bother those busy
>> legal folks any more.
>
> Goodo.

Great news!

>> It looks like we may be able to permit credit cards and Intl Money Orders.
>> Are VISA and AMEX enough cards to support? I should know pretty soon on this.
>
> I suspect that would be fine.

I would think that you should add MasterCard to that list, possibly
instead of Amexco.

Where do we go from here?  Can we start to bombard you with
license applications?

Greg

Received: (from major at localhost)
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA03728
	for pups-liszt; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 13:13:13 +1100 (EST)
X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f
Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158])
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA03723
	for <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 13:13:09 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from wkt at localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA08617 for pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 13:13:33 +1100 (EST)
From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803030213.NAA08617 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Full Steam Ahead with License
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 13:13:33 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <19980303122430.47237 at freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Mar 3, 98 12:24:30 pm"
Reply-To: wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Precedence: bulk

In article by Greg Lehey:
> >> It looks like we may be able to permit credit cards and Intl Money Orders.
> 
> I would think that you should add MasterCard to that list, possibly
> instead of Amexco.
> 
> Where do we go from here?  Can we start to bombard [Dion] with
> license applications?
> Greg

Dion sent me this suggestion:

	So I guess what we have is this:
	1. Prospective licensee gets the license from [PUPS] website.
	2. He signs and sends to SCO and sends his $100 to SF PO box.
	3. Someone here [at SCO] lets [PUPS] know that he is a licensee.
	4. [PUPS] can send him the source code  (and charge a fee for that
   	   as you see fit).

SCO wants the license on paper. I asked him for the final license in a
form suitable for printing, e.g PostScript, PDF, Word format (gasp!).

Greg's suggestion about MasterCard went to Dion as well. I guess we just
have to sit back & wait until we get the word (and the final license)
from Dion.

As soon as I have all the details, there will be a description of the
steps you need to perform in order to get a license placed on the PUPS
home page.

Cheers all,

	Warren

Received: (from major at localhost)
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA06396
	for pups-liszt; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 03:32:22 +1100 (EST)
X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f
Received: from skatter.USask.Ca (skatter.usask.ca [128.233.14.1])
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA06391
	for <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 03:32:17 +1100 (EST)
Received: from hydrus.USask.Ca (hydrus.usask.ca [128.233.14.27])
	by skatter.USask.Ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA16872;
	Tue, 3 Mar 1998 10:32:08 -0600 (CST)
From: Neil Johnson <neil at skatter.usask.ca>
Received: (from neil at localhost) by hydrus.USask.Ca (8.7.2/8.7.2) id KAA00644; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 10:32:06 -0600 (CST)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 10:32:06 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199803031632.KAA00644 at hydrus.USask.Ca>
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Full Steam Ahead with License
Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Precedence: bulk

Another suggestion - keep a list of the licencees on the PUPS website. That
way everyone would know who they could exchange software with. Most new
stuff would probably end up on the site anyway, but during development
it might be good to know.

Neil

Received: (from major at localhost)
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA06544
	for pups-liszt; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 04:08:49 +1100 (EST)
X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f
Received: from alph02.triumf.ca (alph02.Triumf.CA [142.90.114.18])
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id EAA06539
	for <pups at minnie.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU>; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 04:08:43 +1100 (EST)
Received: by alph02.triumf.ca; id AA24509; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 09:08:37 -0800
From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca>
Message-Id: <9803031708.AA24509 at alph02.triumf.ca>
Subject: Re: Full Steam Ahead with License
To: neil at skatter.usask.ca (Neil Johnson)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 09:08:37 -0800 (PST)
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, wkt at CS.ADFA.OZ.AU
In-Reply-To: <199803031632.KAA00644 at hydrus.USask.Ca> from "Neil Johnson" at Mar 3, 98 10:32:06 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22]
Content-Type: text
Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Precedence: bulk

> Another suggestion - keep a list of the licencees on the PUPS website. That
> way everyone would know who they could exchange software with. Most new
> stuff would probably end up on the site anyway, but during development
> it might be good to know.

As most all of the "new stuff" lately seems to be 2.11BSD-related,
this brings up a (probably silly) question of mine: what's the
relationship between the SCO license agreement and 2.9, 2.10, and 2.11BSD?
Will the SCO license be functionally equivalent to a WE/AT&T source
license (other than the per-machine limitations)?  In other words,
are the 2BSD distributions "SUCCESSOR OPERATING SYSTEMS" in the language
of the agreement?

Another stupid question: few of us (perhaps I'm the only one) have
CD-ROM readers/writers attached to PDP-11's.  Will those who have to
transfer the source kit through a PC-clone or other Unix workstation
have to license the intermediary machines with SCO?  In other words,
will the intermediary machines need to be registered as "DESIGNATED
CPU"s?

Tim.

Received: (from major at localhost)
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA07477
	for pups-liszt; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:10:19 +1100 (EST)
X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f
Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158])
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA07472
	for <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:10:14 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from wkt at localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA15973 for pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:10:42 +1100 (EST)
From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803032110.IAA15973 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Full Steam Ahead with License
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:10:42 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <9803031708.AA24509 at alph02.triumf.ca> from Tim Shoppa at "Mar 3, 98 09:08:37 am"
Reply-To: wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Precedence: bulk

In article by Tim Shoppa:
> > Another suggestion - keep a list of the licencees on the PUPS website. That
> > way everyone would know who they could exchange software with. Most new
> > stuff would probably end up on the site anyway, but during development
> > it might be good to know.
> 
> As most all of the "new stuff" lately seems to be 2.11BSD-related,
> this brings up a (probably silly) question of mine: what's the
> relationship between the SCO license agreement and 2.9, 2.10, and 2.11BSD?
> Will the SCO license be functionally equivalent to a WE/AT&T source
> license (other than the per-machine limitations)?  In other words,
> are the 2BSD distributions "SUCCESSOR OPERATING SYSTEMS" in the language
> of the agreement?

2BSDs are definitely SUCCESSOR OPERATING SYSTEMS as they are derived from
the listed products (6th, 7th Edition and 32V) and are 16-bit operating
systems.
 
> Another stupid question: few of us (perhaps I'm the only one) have
> CD-ROM readers/writers attached to PDP-11's.  Will those who have to
> transfer the source kit through a PC-clone or other Unix workstation
> have to license the intermediary machines with SCO?  In other words,
> will the intermediary machines need to be registered as "DESIGNATED
> CPU"s?

My interpretation is this:

	DESIGNATED CPU means all CPUs licensed as such for a specific
	SOURCE CODE PRODUCT.

	SCO grants to LICENSEE a personal, nontransferable and
	nonexclusive right to use, in the AUTHORIZED COUNTRY, each SOURCE
	CODE PRODUCT identified in Section 3 of this Agreement, solely
	for personal use [..] and solely on or in conjunction with
	DESIGNATED CPUs [...]. Such right to use includes the right to
	modify such SOURCE CODE PRODUCT and to prepare DERIVED BINARY PRODUCT
	based on such SOURCE CODE PRODUCT,

In my opinion, you can't USE the source code unless you have a CPU which
run the machine code which is produced by the source code. I can't prepare
a DERIVED BINARY PRODUCT if I don't have a PDP-11 or an emulator of such.

I'd better check with Dion.

	Warren

Received: (from major at localhost)
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA07528
	for pups-liszt; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:16:11 +1100 (EST)
X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f
Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158])
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA07523
	for <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:16:08 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from wkt at localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA16053 for pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:16:37 +1100 (EST)
From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803032116.IAA16053 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Full Steam Ahead with License
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:16:37 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <199803031632.KAA00644 at hydrus.USask.Ca> from Neil Johnson at "Mar 3, 98 10:32:06 am"
Reply-To: wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Precedence: bulk

In article by Neil Johnson:
> Another suggestion - keep a list of the licencees on the PUPS website. That
> way everyone would know who they could exchange software with. Most new
> stuff would probably end up on the site anyway, but during development
> it might be good to know.

This is a good idea, but I'd be happy for a licencee to opt out from the
list if they so desired.

	Warren

Received: (from major at localhost)
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA07770
	for pups-liszt; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:48:48 +1100 (EST)
X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f
Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158])
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA07765
	for <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:48:42 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from wkt at localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA17305 for pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:49:10 +1100 (EST)
From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803032149.IAA17305 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: PUPS Volunteers list
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:49:10 +1100 (EST)
Reply-To: wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Precedence: bulk

All,
	I've just created a SMALL mailing list for those people who have
volunteered to write CD-ROMs, cut tapes etc. so we can distribute the
software covered by the up-coming SCO source license.

If you had volunteered but didn't receive any email about it today, please
mail me back as I've missed you somehow.

Still waiting on Dion re the final license document and the questions
regarding Mastercard and `intermediate' CPUs.

Cheers all,

	Warren

Received: (from major at localhost)
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA07931
	for pups-liszt; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:20:44 +1100 (EST)
X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f
Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158])
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA07926
	for <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:20:41 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from wkt at localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA17553 for pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:21:10 +1100 (EST)
From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803032221.JAA17553 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: From Dion: intermediate CPUs
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:21:10 +1100 (EST)
Reply-To: wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Precedence: bulk

----- Forwarded message from Dion Johnson -----

> > Will those who have to
> > transfer the source kit through a PC-clone or other Unix workstation
> > have to license the intermediary machines with SCO?  In other words,
> > will the intermediary machines need to be registered as "DESIGNATED
> > CPU"s?
> 
> I hope not!
> 	Warren

Right, that makes no sense at all.  I suspect we (you and I) will 
want to whip up a sort of cover letter for the license that
explains how to fill out the form and, as experience accumulates,
a FAQ, etc.
-Dion

----- End of forwarded message from Dion Johnson -----

Received: (from major at localhost)
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA07993
	for pups-liszt; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:33:15 +1100 (EST)
X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f
Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20])
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA07988
	for <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:33:10 +1100 (EST)
Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0)
	id RAA09036; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 17:33:02 -0500 (EST)
Received: by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0)
	id AA27033; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 17:32:54 -0500
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 17:32:54 -0500
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Message-Id: <199803032232.AA27033 at world.std.com>
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: PUPS Volunteers list
Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Precedence: bulk


<	I've just created a SMALL mailing list for those people who have
<volunteered to write CD-ROMs, cut tapes etc. so we can distribute the
<software covered by the up-coming SCO source license.

Query:

The license is more concerned with source level code.  What about those of 
us that are interested in binaries only configured for a working system?

Allison


Received: (from major at localhost)
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA08018
	for pups-liszt; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:36:21 +1100 (EST)
X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f
Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158])
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA08013
	for <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:36:18 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from wkt at localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA17613 for pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:36:47 +1100 (EST)
From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803032236.JAA17613 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Binary-only PDP UNIX
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:36:47 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <199803032232.AA27033 at world.std.com> from Allison J Parent at "Mar 3, 98 05:32:54 pm"
Reply-To: wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Precedence: bulk

In article by Allison J Parent:
> <	I've just created a SMALL mailing list for those people who have
> <volunteered to write CD-ROMs, cut tapes etc. so we can distribute the
> <software covered by the up-coming SCO source license.
> 
> The license is more concerned with source level code.  What about those of 
> us that are interested in binaries only configured for a working system?

You can pick up binaries for 5th, 6th and 7th Edition UNIX for free,
as they are already covered by a SCO license. See

	http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/Licenses/v7_bin_license.txt

If you also look at the PUPS Home Page

	http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS

you can pick up RK05 disk images for all three edition, as part of
Bob Supnik's PDP-11 emulator.

	Warren


Received: (from major at localhost)
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA09888
	for pups-liszt; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 11:54:30 +1100 (EST)
X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f
Received: from alph02.triumf.ca (alph02.Triumf.CA [142.90.114.18])
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA09883
	for <pups at minnie.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU>; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 11:54:23 +1100 (EST)
Received: by alph02.triumf.ca; id AA29624; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 16:54:02 -0800
From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca>
Message-Id: <9803040054.AA29624 at alph02.triumf.ca>
Subject: Re: Some PDP11 Q..
To: jorgen.pehrson at seinf.MAIL.ABB.com
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 16:54:01 -0800 (PST)
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <412565BB.0036DA5F.00 at notestest.mail.abb.com> from "jorgen.pehrson at seinf.mail.abb.com" at Mar 2, 98 11:30:40 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22]
Content-Type: text
Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Precedence: bulk

> I was given an PDP-11/84 but I have no idea what OS it has installed.
> ...
> And another thing. This machine had a Wangtek 5150EQ tape streamer. If I
> ...
> There're some (bad quality) pictures of the board at
> http://spektr.ludvika.se/museum/pics/pdp11-board1.jpg

I finally got a chance to look at the picture; the board looks to me like
an MTI MSV22, which is a Q-bus board.  There's no way that it's a Unibus
board.  Are you sure you've got an 11/84 there, and not a 11/83?

Tim.

Received: (from major at localhost)
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA10009
	for pups-liszt; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 12:24:00 +1100 (EST)
X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f
Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0 at MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200])
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA10004
	for <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 12:23:53 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from sms at localhost)
	by moe.2bsd.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA13880
	for pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 17:17:18 -0800 (PST)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 17:17:18 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms at moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <199803040117.RAA13880 at moe.2bsd.com>
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: PUPS Volunteers list
Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Precedence: bulk

> From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
> Query:
> 
> The license is more concerned with source level code.  What about those of 
> us that are interested in binaries only configured for a working system?

	If you don't plan on staying current with parts that change then
	a binary only system might work.  I can't see myself volunteering
	to build binaries (especially kernels) for varying configurations.

	The older, 'static' or frozen (for now), distributions can be run
	binary only - but the traditional method of updating systems was
	to either distribute diffs  or replacement source modules.  

	One main reason for this, especially in the kernel (but also some
	applications level stuff), is that the address space of a PDP-11 does
	not allow the luxury of including all ways of doing something.  For
	example:  the C library has to be build for either 'hosts' file or
	resolver routines - can't do both.  So someone's running a binary
	only release but with a hosts file orientation.  THey want updated
	binaries but all my systems are resolver based - building new binaries
	would be painful and time consuming.  What happens when a system 
	include file changes and all (or many) of the binaries in the system
	are affected - who's going to volunteer to recompile the system and
	make a new CD for the folks who don't want to maintain current sources?

	In the kernel arena it's even worse - who ever builds a kernel would 
	have to request a 'config' file (do you want 'quotas' or not, do you
	want 'networking' and if so which ethernet card, do you want 1 or 2 
	MSCP controllers, and so on.  Ick.) and custom build a kernel (can't 
	include _all_ possible devices, etc because it just won't fit).  I 
	don't know about any one else but I'd rather not get into the 
	providing custom kernels and binaries.

	From V5 on (I can't speak for earlier) you were expected to have a
	source license (which thanks to SCO's help we now will have) and
	install/maintain the system from those.  Binary only setups were
	extremely uncommon (except in shops with lots of machines and they'd
	have a single 'master' source system and build and distribute from 
	that).  

	Configurability is very limited without sources and I'd have thought
	that everyone would be dancing with joy at being freed from binary
	only releases.

	As has been mentioned before there are binary only V6, V7, and V5
	images already available without requiring a source license at all.
	There's no need to pay the minimal $100 for the upcoming license if
	all that's desired is a binary only system that's preconfigured for
	a limited set of devices.  (re)configuration takes sources. 

	So I guess the question is who's volunteering to build and distribute
	the binary only kits?  Not me ;-)

	Steven Schultz


Received: (from major at localhost)
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA10998
	for pups-liszt; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 16:37:18 +1100 (EST)
X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f
Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134])
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA10993
	for <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 16:37:10 +1100 (EST)
Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137])
	by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA10586;
	Wed, 4 Mar 1998 16:07:06 +1030 (CST)
Received: (from grog at localhost)
          by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id QAA22358;
          Wed, 4 Mar 1998 16:07:06 +1030 (CST)
          (envelope-from grog)
Message-ID: <19980304160706.51098 at freebie.lemis.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 16:07:06 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog at lemis.com>
To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms at moe.2bsd.com>
Cc: PDP UNIX Preservation Society <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: PUPS Volunteers list
References: <199803040117.RAA13880 at moe.2bsd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i
In-Reply-To: <199803040117.RAA13880 at moe.2bsd.com>; from Steven M. Schultz on Tue, Mar 03, 1998 at 05:17:18PM -0800
WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog
Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia
Phone: +61-8-8388-8286
Fax: +61-8-8388-8725
Mobile: +61-41-739-7062
Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Precedence: bulk

On Tue,  3 March 1998 at 17:17:18 -0800, Steven M. Schultz wrote:
>> From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
>> Query:
>>
>> The license is more concerned with source level code.  What about those of
>> us that are interested in binaries only configured for a working system?
>
> 	If you don't plan on staying current with parts that change then
> 	a binary only system might work.  I can't see myself volunteering
> 	to build binaries (especially kernels) for varying configurations.
>
>	(omitting detailled explanation)
>
> 	I
> 	don't know about any one else but I'd rather not get into the
> 	providing custom kernels and binaries.

All good reasons.  I suppose I could give access to an emulator over
the net if anybody wants to do it themselves.  This is not the way to
go if you have your own machine with enough storage, but it might be
if you're low on storage.

> 	As has been mentioned before there are binary only V6, V7, and V5
> 	images already available without requiring a source license at
>	all.

JOOI, where are these?

Greg

Received: (from major at localhost)
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA12363
	for pups-liszt; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 00:25:12 +1100 (EST)
X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f
Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20])
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA12358
	for <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 00:25:07 +1100 (EST)
Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0)
	id IAA13309; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:25:01 -0500 (EST)
Received: by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0)
	id AA26659; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:24:53 -0500
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:24:53 -0500
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Message-Id: <199803041324.AA26659 at world.std.com>
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Binary-only PDP UNIX
Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Precedence: bulk

<The v7 comes on either rk05 or rl02 images.
<Earlier editions didn't know about rl02s.

Exactly my understanding and V7 doesn't run on pdp-11/23s though it is 
runable on 11/73.

My interest if to have one of the many PDP-11 Qbus machines I have 
running a nonDEC OS such as unix.  The 11/23s would be a favored target 
as I have a few of them but, devices compatable with binary versions
are not available to me.

I'll look at the archive for the RL02 images.  IF there is anyone that can 
suggest a way to get the images on to the RL02 using RT-11 I'm interested.
I can kermit the files from the PC so that step is not a problem.

<> Save for the rk05 image does not match my hardware (no rk05).  Also sin
<> they are disk images the target disk would have to have the same bad bl
<> map or all havoc happens.
<
<Yup. These images were designed for emulators.

Understood, not much interest to me.  Running a PDP-11 sim with two of 
them behind me doesn't really do it for me.  Running unix on a sim under 
dos on a PC exceeds my grasp of reality. I'm the sort if I wanted unix 
on the PC I'd install *BSD for 386/486 and skip the simulation.  I think 
Bob S. and friends did some great work though.

Allison



Received: (from major at localhost)
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA12357
	for pups-liszt; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 00:25:05 +1100 (EST)
X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f
Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20])
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA12348
	for <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 00:25:00 +1100 (EST)
Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0)
	id IAA13287; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:24:53 -0500 (EST)
Received: by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0)
	id AA26543; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:24:45 -0500
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:24:45 -0500
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Message-Id: <199803041324.AA26543 at world.std.com>
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: PUPS Volunteers list
Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Precedence: bulk


<	have a single 'master' source system and build and distribute from 
<	that).  

For me that would be perfectly useless as the only PDP-11 compuler is the 
DECUS-C and ti's far to minimal to crunch that.  Chicken and egg.  Right 
now I need the chicken on my 11/73 before I can consider the sources
and then I have to configure enough storage to hold them.

<	that everyone would be dancing with joy at being freed from binary
<	only releases.

I sorta am but for me $100 might as well be $10,000.

<
<	As has been mentioned before there are binary only V6, V7, and V5
<	images already available without requiring a source license at 
Their problem is from what I can tell is they are not runable on my 
11/73 with the hardware I have.  There is that little problem of 
transfering them (via RT-11?).

My config, call it a sanity test to see if there is an existant binary I 
can run:

11/73 1mb non-pmi ram
DLV11j
RQDX3 rx33, rx52(x2) (rx53 available)
RX02
RLV12 and one RL02
TK50

I can swap a DHV-11 for the DLV11j.
I can put in 1 more meg of non-pmi ram.
The TK50 is shared with a VAX.
RT-11 V5 running.
There are no RKxxs available.

I expect I'll never be able to network the 11s I have, nor will I have 
adaquate resources (Disk) to compile the kernel.  I will not discuss the
11/23 or the pro350 sitting next to them as it's been implied they could 
only run the oldest versions due to lack of I&D space.

Allison




More information about the TUHS mailing list